Jimmy Carter: "Leave Gay Marriage To States To Decide" (Right On Jimmy!)

[Meathead]

exactly... since when do rethuglicans care what jimmy carter thinks...?

they don't. just like they don't care what minorities or women think unless those minorities or women are self-hating

I care what the women and minorities I know think and then some more than others. They certainly don't hate themselves.

the right, as a general rule, only supports minorities who mirror their anti-minority, anti-women and anti-gay policies. the women, minorities and gays who support the right clearly don't defend their own self-interest and clearly pretend that if they don't "act" black, or female or gay... that it will somehow benefit them.

me? I defend individual rights and I don't support positions that deprive people of equal protection under the law.

that said, you said you don't care about gay rights. it isn't an issue for you. I had no criticism of that pov.

I don't give a rat's ass. I don't act black, female or gay. Identity politics can be extremely tiresome.

It can. on the other hand when men try to take away my right to reproductive choice, I think it's important that I defend that right. if someone tries to obstruct black voters, I think it's important that blacks stand up for themselves like I would stand up for them on that issue.

no... that doesn't mean I go for the race-baiting, BS... but there are issues that are clearly important. for example, i'm not sure how anyone gay can vote republican. why? because part of the GOP platform is obstructive of gay rights. That isn't race-politics. It's knowing when to defend your own self-interest.

That's people like yourself looking for validation. It is necessary to identify yourself as a human being first and foremost, then to take responsibility for your own actions. Far too many people are looking for validation of being victims and the protections and benefits they feel entited to.

 

[Seawytch]

You're dodging the question. I don't want a CCW permit treated differently. I want them to be treated the same and they are. Why do you want my marriage license treated differently than yours?

So a person can walk around NYC with a California CCW?

Ah, so now you're being intentionally obtuse to avoid answering a simple question. Gosh, what could your reason be for wanting my marriage license treated differently than yours...I wonder....

YOU are the one not answering the question, because you know the answer and it doesn't fit your agenda.

My agenda is to correct what the courts have been doing the past few decades, which is legislating, not adjudicating. My position on this is as clear as day.

I don't have an agenda regarding CCW permits. Mine is equal to everyone else's. It's valid in some states, not valid in others. My CA permit IS treated equally in NY as a permit issued in AL.

A heterosexual marriage license issued to a 50 year old man marrying his 15 year old first cousin in Alabama is valid in all 50 states. Mine issued in California is not. You're okay with that?

Its up to the states to figure it out, not the feds.

And you again miss the point, its not about the permit being equal, its about the RIGHT being equal. Driving is not a right, but being able to enter a State freely is a right, thus driver's licenses have to be honored state to state. RKBA is a right, so states should be forced to recognize that right.

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

 

[martybegan]

So a person can walk around NYC with a California CCW?

Ah, so now you're being intentionally obtuse to avoid answering a simple question. Gosh, what could your reason be for wanting my marriage license treated differently than yours...I wonder....

YOU are the one not answering the question, because you know the answer and it doesn't fit your agenda.

My agenda is to correct what the courts have been doing the past few decades, which is legislating, not adjudicating. My position on this is as clear as day.

I don't have an agenda regarding CCW permits. Mine is equal to everyone else's. It's valid in some states, not valid in others. My CA permit IS treated equally in NY as a permit issued in AL.

A heterosexual marriage license issued to a 50 year old man marrying his 15 year old first cousin in Alabama is valid in all 50 states. Mine issued in California is not. You're okay with that?

Its up to the states to figure it out, not the feds.

And you again miss the point, its not about the permit being equal, its about the RIGHT being equal. Driving is not a right, but being able to enter a State freely is a right, thus driver's licenses have to be honored state to state. RKBA is a right, so states should be forced to recognize that right.

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

 

[Seawytch]

Ah, so now you're being intentionally obtuse to avoid answering a simple question. Gosh, what could your reason be for wanting my marriage license treated differently than yours...I wonder....

YOU are the one not answering the question, because you know the answer and it doesn't fit your agenda.

My agenda is to correct what the courts have been doing the past few decades, which is legislating, not adjudicating. My position on this is as clear as day.

I don't have an agenda regarding CCW permits. Mine is equal to everyone else's. It's valid in some states, not valid in others. My CA permit IS treated equally in NY as a permit issued in AL.

A heterosexual marriage license issued to a 50 year old man marrying his 15 year old first cousin in Alabama is valid in all 50 states. Mine issued in California is not. You're okay with that?

Its up to the states to figure it out, not the feds.

And you again miss the point, its not about the permit being equal, its about the RIGHT being equal. Driving is not a right, but being able to enter a State freely is a right, thus driver's licenses have to be honored state to state. RKBA is a right, so states should be forced to recognize that right.

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

 

[martybegan]

YOU are the one not answering the question, because you know the answer and it doesn't fit your agenda.

My agenda is to correct what the courts have been doing the past few decades, which is legislating, not adjudicating. My position on this is as clear as day.

I don't have an agenda regarding CCW permits. Mine is equal to everyone else's. It's valid in some states, not valid in others. My CA permit IS treated equally in NY as a permit issued in AL.

A heterosexual marriage license issued to a 50 year old man marrying his 15 year old first cousin in Alabama is valid in all 50 states. Mine issued in California is not. You're okay with that?

Its up to the states to figure it out, not the feds.

And you again miss the point, its not about the permit being equal, its about the RIGHT being equal. Driving is not a right, but being able to enter a State freely is a right, thus driver's licenses have to be honored state to state. RKBA is a right, so states should be forced to recognize that right.

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

 

[Seawytch]

I don't have an agenda regarding CCW permits. Mine is equal to everyone else's. It's valid in some states, not valid in others. My CA permit IS treated equally in NY as a permit issued in AL.

A heterosexual marriage license issued to a 50 year old man marrying his 15 year old first cousin in Alabama is valid in all 50 states. Mine issued in California is not. You're okay with that?

Its up to the states to figure it out, not the feds.

And you again miss the point, its not about the permit being equal, its about the RIGHT being equal. Driving is not a right, but being able to enter a State freely is a right, thus driver's licenses have to be honored state to state. RKBA is a right, so states should be forced to recognize that right.

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

No, you want to debate where you want the world to be, not where it is. CCW permits are all treated the same, marriage licenses aren't and you're okay with the latter. That's discrimination, period.

 

[LeftofLeft]

I am shocked, I didn't know that the mad racists was holding hands with Jimmah Carter...

You've got it backwards:

"Carter's campaign criticized Democrat Opponent Carl Sanders for paying tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr., and distributed grainy photographs of Sanders arm-in-arm with two black men."

 

[martybegan]

Its up to the states to figure it out, not the feds.

And you again miss the point, its not about the permit being equal, its about the RIGHT being equal. Driving is not a right, but being able to enter a State freely is a right, thus driver's licenses have to be honored state to state. RKBA is a right, so states should be forced to recognize that right.

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

No, you want to debate where you want the world to be, not where it is. CCW permits are all treated the same, marriage licenses aren't and you're okay with the latter. That's discrimination, period.

I'm poking holes in your logic. by your logic CCW's should be treated the same as marriage licenses, if you assume both are rights.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

like many southerners, jimmy believes in states rights - and he has the constitution on his side . Marriage of any sort is never mentioned in the constitution and so, by the 10A, it's a state matter. Same with abortion.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

J
Government does not belong in our private lives any more than religion does.

WTF does that mean? You want wife-beating made legal?

 

[Seawytch]

Strawman to the current discussion, but I think we can figure out why you don't want to answer the question I asked.

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

No, you want to debate where you want the world to be, not where it is. CCW permits are all treated the same, marriage licenses aren't and you're okay with the latter. That's discrimination, period.

I'm poking holes in your logic. by your logic CCW's should be treated the same as marriage licenses, if you assume both are rights.

And I never argued that they shouldn't be. Fight for it. Challenge it to the SCOTUS. I wish you luck.

You, on the other hand are perfectly fine with my marriage license being treated differently. Why is that?

 

[martybegan]

I answered the question. Your problem is my answer doesn't fit in the nice little "if they oppose gay marriage at all they are fundie nutters" hole.

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

No, you want to debate where you want the world to be, not where it is. CCW permits are all treated the same, marriage licenses aren't and you're okay with the latter. That's discrimination, period.

I'm poking holes in your logic. by your logic CCW's should be treated the same as marriage licenses, if you assume both are rights.

And I never argued that they shouldn't be. Fight for it. Challenge it to the SCOTUS. I wish you luck.

You, on the other hand are perfectly fine with my marriage license being treated differently. Why is that?

Then why would I vote for SSM being OK in NY if it ever came to a vote.

Its just that my belief in the constitution outweighs my personal views on a matter, and if people in Alabama don't want to recognize SSM there is nothing in the constitution that prevents that.

 

[DriftingSand]

I was never a fan of Carter's but he's 100% correct on this issue. I've also learned to respect him due to his involvement with Habitat For Humanity: A Christian charity that builds homes for the homeless.

 

[Valerie]

marriage laws are state laws and the constitution stipulates equal protection under state law for all citizens, so whatever the state law conveys via marriage to committed hetero partners, so too must the state convey to gay partnerships.



Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

 

[martybegan]

marriage laws are state laws and the constitution stipulates equal protection under state law for all citizens, so whatever the state law conveys via marriage to committed hetero partners, so too must the state convey to gay partnerships.



Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

Then i guess it should apply to CCW's as well.

 

[rightwinger]

marriage laws are state laws and the constitution stipulates equal protection under state law for all citizens, so whatever the state law conveys via marriage to committed hetero partners, so too must the state convey to gay partnerships.



Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

Then i guess it should apply to CCW's as well.

How does equal protection not apply? The same gun law applies to everyone

 

[martybegan]

marriage laws are state laws and the constitution stipulates equal protection under state law for all citizens, so whatever the state law conveys via marriage to committed hetero partners, so too must the state convey to gay partnerships.



Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

Then i guess it should apply to CCW's as well.

How does equal protection not apply? The same gun law applies to everyone

No, because NY does give out CCW's (grudgingly), so why shouldn't an Alabama CCW be valid in NYC?

 

[Seawytch]

Probably because they usually are...they just try to hide it. You're not trying.

And no, you deflected the question with an unrelated bugaboo.

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

No, you want to debate where you want the world to be, not where it is. CCW permits are all treated the same, marriage licenses aren't and you're okay with the latter. That's discrimination, period.

I'm poking holes in your logic. by your logic CCW's should be treated the same as marriage licenses, if you assume both are rights.

And I never argued that they shouldn't be. Fight for it. Challenge it to the SCOTUS. I wish you luck.

You, on the other hand are perfectly fine with my marriage license being treated differently. Why is that?

Then why would I vote for SSM being OK in NY if it ever came to a vote.

Its just that my belief in the constitution outweighs my personal views on a matter, and if people in Alabama don't want to recognize SSM there is nothing in the constitution that prevents that.

Actually, there had to be a specific law written by Congress to prevent my legal civil marriage from being recognized in Alabama. Remember DOMA? Not all of it was repealed.

California has to recognize the 50 year old marrying his 15 year old 1st cousin but Alabama doesn't have to recognize my legal civil marriage to my consenting adult partner...because of a law that Congress wrote.

 

[martybegan]

I've stated my opposition to the process, not the end result. Again, you are not getting it.

No, you want to debate where you want the world to be, not where it is. CCW permits are all treated the same, marriage licenses aren't and you're okay with the latter. That's discrimination, period.

I'm poking holes in your logic. by your logic CCW's should be treated the same as marriage licenses, if you assume both are rights.

And I never argued that they shouldn't be. Fight for it. Challenge it to the SCOTUS. I wish you luck.

You, on the other hand are perfectly fine with my marriage license being treated differently. Why is that?

Then why would I vote for SSM being OK in NY if it ever came to a vote.

Its just that my belief in the constitution outweighs my personal views on a matter, and if people in Alabama don't want to recognize SSM there is nothing in the constitution that prevents that.

Actually, there had to be a specific law written by Congress to prevent my legal civil marriage from being recognized in Alabama. Remember DOMA? Not all of it was repealed.

California has to recognize the 50 year old marrying his 15 year old 1st cousin but Alabama doesn't have to recognize my legal civil marriage to my consenting adult partner...because of a law that Congress wrote.

That law was a attempt to get around judges who overstep their bounds, so a misuse of the constitution leads to an unnecessary law, because the definition of the marriage contract is with the states in the first place.

 

[Seawytch]

I was never a fan of Carter's but he's 100% correct on this issue. I've also learned to respect him due to his involvement with Habitat For Humanity: A Christian charity that builds homes for the homeless.

Jimmy appears to be going a little senile since he started his flip flop on the issue with a falsehood.

"I don't think that the government ought to ever tell the church to marry people, if the church doesn't want to. I'm a Baptist and the congregation of our church will decide whether we have a man or a woman as pastor, and whether we'll marry gay people or not,"

They aren't Jimmy. Never have and never will. How do we know? By all the churches that were forced to marry interracial and interfaith couples.