Judge: Detroit bankruptcy dishonors Obama

[usmcstinger]

I have always believed that the Federal Government should only deal with their own financial problems. w
I was against all the Bailouts for Banks, Corporations, States and Cities.

Will the Federal Government ever get back all the bailout money?

The current State of the Bailout:http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress - Bloomberg

 

[Ernie S.]

Or cut state revenue so low that it's impossible to take care of themselves?
Or became so dependent on one industry, that when it suffered a decline, the entire state suffered?

It's interesting that a state so firmly in the grip of GOP rule allows it's major city to go bankrupt.

Funnier still that this gets laid at the feet of Democrats.

hey Shallow, Detroit has not had one frigging Republican mayor since the early 60s. There's your first clue, Sherlock!

Is it just me that thinks the Governor has more power than the Mayor in a state?

In a state, yes, but Governors are not responsible for city budgets and services. But you knew that, didn't you?

 

[thanatos144]

hey Shallow, Detroit has not had one frigging Republican mayor since the early 60s. There's your first clue, Sherlock!

Is it just me that thinks the Governor has more power than the Mayor in a state?

In a state, yes, but Governors are not responsible for city budgets and services. But you knew that, didn't you?

I am willing to bet he didnt.....I dont think many progressives know how governments in this country work.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sallow is a smart guy with a rather warped sense of right and wrong. He is willing to say most anything to advance his position.
His distaste of Conservatives lead him to believe that we are uninformed.

 

[GWV5903]

I live in Connecticut. Hartford, like Detroit, used to be one of the most prosperous cities in the country. Factories, insurance companies, a thriving middle class... then came the liberal politicians. Higher taxes funded big government programs. Public unions demanded lavish benefits in return for supporting the mayor, resulting in even higher taxes to pay for them. Businesses fled to lower tax regions. Fewer businesses meant lower tax revenues. Incredibly, the politicians responded by raising taxes again, driving out even more businesses. Tax revenues plummeted. Now the city couldn't even pay for basic services, the infrastructure crumbled and crime skyrocketed. Residents fled, pushing the tax revenues even lower. Today, Hartford, like Detroit, is in ruins.

And it wasn't low taxes or deregulation or small government that did it. It was big government with its big taxes. Want more proof? Here are the ten cities with the highest poverty in America:

Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected
a Republican mayor since 1961;

Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;

Cincinnati, OH (3rd)… since 1984;

Cleveland, OH (4th)… since 1989;

Miami, FL (5th) has never had a Republican Mayor;

St. Louis, MO (6th)…. since 1949;

El Paso, TX (7th) has never had a Republican Mayor;

Milwaukee, WI (8th)… since 1908;

Philadelphia, PA (9th)… since 1952;

Newark, NJ (10th)… since 1907.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the problem...

What does it take for liberals to understand, are they this stupid or just full of hate?

Or is it both?

It is a disease...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If "Quantum Windbag" had read the Michigan Constitution, he would have known that the "Oath of public officers" (ARTICLE XI, Section 1) requires that "All officers, legislative, executive and judicial, before entering upon the duties of their respective offices, shall take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation: I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of this state ....."

He would have also known that both the Governor and the Judge have sworn to support the Michigan Constitution, including Article IX § 24: "The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby. Financial benefits arising on account of service rendered in each fiscal year shall be funded during that year and such funding shall not be used for financing unfunded accrued liabilities."

The Governor of Michigan and "Quantum Windbag" should have known that the by attempting to declare bankruptcy in Detroit, it would place the city and state in direct violation of its own constitution by not honoring the "pension plans and retirement system" that its employees had negotiated in good faith. Under the laws of Michigan, the Judge could make no other ruling, and was probably aghast that the governor and state officials appeared ignorant or chose to ignore such relevant sections of their own Constitution.

As for the recent Supreme Court ruling in California, gay rights (marriages) has nothing to do with a major city or state refusing to honor its contractual agreements with its own employees, as specified in the Michigan Constitution.

What the federal and Supreme Court may or may not decide in the future is strictly speculation - the Governor, state and local officials and the judiciary are obligated, however, to adhere to the current laws.

Any Governor or politician actively pursuing a bankruptcy case that would clearly contravene the state's constitution, that he/she has sworn to uphold, is inviting impeachment.

ARTICLE XI
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYMENT

§ 1 Oath of public officers.
Sec. 1. All officers, legislative, executive and judicial, before entering upon the duties of their respective offices, shall take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of this state, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of .......... according to the best of my ability. No other oath, affirmation, or
any religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust.

History: Const. 1963, Art. XI, § 1, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964.
Former constitution: See Const. 1908, Art. XVI, § 2.

Michigan Constitution of 1963/Article 11 - Wikisource, the free online library

If you had read my post you would have realized nothing you just posted answered the questions I asked.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree that Detroit is responsible for paying pensions, but how are they going to do that? The city has 100,000 creditors all due payment and no assets they are willing or able to liquidate to meet their obligations. It's not as if they could sell city hall, police stations and parks. Real estate in the city is essentially worthless. Hell! The museum made a stink and says they won't sell Howdy Doody for an expected $1,000,000.

They have obligated themselves right out of viability.

Detroit —An elite group of 13 city retirees has collected more than $1 million each in pension payouts, including former police chiefs Benny Napoleon and Isaiah “Ike” McKinnon, and could lose the most money if Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr succeeds in slashing benefits during the city’s restructuring.

They are the most notable names on a list obtained by The Detroit News that identifies retirees who have the most expensive pensions in a system that is underfunded by about $3.5 billion.

In all, two dozen retirees receive more than $100,000 annually, according to 2012 data released by the city’s pension funds. Napoleon, who is running for mayor, receives a $111,520 pension a year in addition to his approximate $130,000 salary as Wayne County sheriff. McKinnon gets $92,451 a year.

“I’ve been stabbed twice, shot at eight times and lived through dangerous times in the Police Department, so you want what you believe is due to you,” said McKinnon, 70, a tenured professor at University of Detroit Mercy who has collected $1,069,741 since retiring in 1998. “Is that fair?”

From The Detroit News: Big pension payouts threatened by Detroit crisis | The Detroit News

According to the unions, and the Constitution of Michigan, everyone in the Michigan is responsible for paying the pensions in Detroit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree that Detroit is responsible for paying pensions, but how are they going to do that? The city has 100,000 creditors all due payment and no assets they are willing or able to liquidate to meet their obligations. It's not as if they could sell city hall, police stations and parks. Real estate in the city is essentially worthless. Hell! The museum made a stink and says they won't sell Howdy Doody for an expected $1,000,000.

They have obligated themselves right out of viability.

Detroit —An elite group of 13 city retirees has collected more than $1 million each in pension payouts, including former police chiefs Benny Napoleon and Isaiah “Ike” McKinnon, and could lose the most money if Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr succeeds in slashing benefits during the city’s restructuring.

They are the most notable names on a list obtained by The Detroit News that identifies retirees who have the most expensive pensions in a system that is underfunded by about $3.5 billion.

In all, two dozen retirees receive more than $100,000 annually, according to 2012 data released by the city’s pension funds. Napoleon, who is running for mayor, receives a $111,520 pension a year in addition to his approximate $130,000 salary as Wayne County sheriff. McKinnon gets $92,451 a year.

“I’ve been stabbed twice, shot at eight times and lived through dangerous times in the Police Department, so you want what you believe is due to you,” said McKinnon, 70, a tenured professor at University of Detroit Mercy who has collected $1,069,741 since retiring in 1998. “Is that fair?”

From The Detroit News: Big pension payouts threatened by Detroit crisis | The Detroit News

Or cut state revenue so low that it's impossible to take care of themselves?
Or became so dependent on one industry, that when it suffered a decline, the entire state suffered?

It's interesting that a state so firmly in the grip of GOP rule allows it's major city to go bankrupt.

Funnier still that this gets laid at the feet of Democrats.

Allows?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

President Gerald Ford refused to help New York in 1975, a rejection immortalized in the headline “drop dead.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/business/05views.html?_r=0

Just think, if Ford had helped New york it might have turned out to be a major metropolitan center, maybe even the largest city in the US. Instead it is nothing but a vast wasteland where the law of the jungle rules and warlords control the sad ruins of the Empire State Building.

Wait, that was the other universe.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I live in Connecticut. Hartford, like Detroit, used to be one of the most prosperous cities in the country. Factories, insurance companies, a thriving middle class... then came the liberal politicians. Higher taxes funded big government programs. Public unions demanded lavish benefits in return for supporting the mayor, resulting in even higher taxes to pay for them. Businesses fled to lower tax regions. Fewer businesses meant lower tax revenues. Incredibly, the politicians responded by raising taxes again, driving out even more businesses. Tax revenues plummeted. Now the city couldn't even pay for basic services, the infrastructure crumbled and crime skyrocketed. Residents fled, pushing the tax revenues even lower. Today, Hartford, like Detroit, is in ruins.

And it wasn't low taxes or deregulation or small government that did it. It was big government with its big taxes. Want more proof? Here are the ten cities with the highest poverty in America:

Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected
a Republican mayor since 1961;

Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;

Cincinnati, OH (3rd)… since 1984;

Cleveland, OH (4th)… since 1989;

Miami, FL (5th) has never had a Republican Mayor;

St. Louis, MO (6th)…. since 1949;

El Paso, TX (7th) has never had a Republican Mayor;

Milwaukee, WI (8th)… since 1908;

Philadelphia, PA (9th)… since 1952;

Newark, NJ (10th)… since 1907.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the problem...

What does it take for liberals to understand, are they this stupid or just full of hate?

Or is it both?

It is a disease...

It IS a disease. It's the liberal disease of entitlement that they actually believe WORKS. Look at those cities mentioned. Most are dying a slow death.

Detroit is the "poster child" of how BAD liberalism is and how it DESTROYS everything that it touches. Welcome to the 21st century liberals. Look at what your BS policies have done (and are doing) to the United States. But then, that was the plan all along, wasn't it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Or cut state revenue so low that it's impossible to take care of themselves?
Or became so dependent on one industry, that when it suffered a decline, the entire state suffered?

It's interesting that a state so firmly in the grip of GOP rule allows it's major city to go bankrupt.

Funnier still that this gets laid at the feet of Democrats.

hey Shallow, Detroit has not had one frigging Republican mayor since the early 60s. There's your first clue, Sherlock!

Is it just me that thinks the Governor has more power than the Mayor in a state?

Which explains why Rahm Emmanuel stopped working for Obama and ran for governor of Illinois instead of something easy, like mayor of Chicago.

I bet you can't even tell me the name of the governor of Illinois.

 

[Redfish]

black, female, liberal judge------------nothing more needs to be said.

probably got an affirmative action law degree.

 

[nitroz]

She's just looking for a free bailout.

 

[boedicca]

Well, Obama does owe Detriot The Bacon...as the city council woman claimed.

$20B buys a lot of bacon, even at inflated government procurement prices.

 

[Ernie S.]

I agree that Detroit is responsible for paying pensions, but how are they going to do that? The city has 100,000 creditors all due payment and no assets they are willing or able to liquidate to meet their obligations. It's not as if they could sell city hall, police stations and parks. Real estate in the city is essentially worthless. Hell! The museum made a stink and says they won't sell Howdy Doody for an expected $1,000,000.

They have obligated themselves right out of viability.

Detroit —An elite group of 13 city retirees has collected more than $1 million each in pension payouts, including former police chiefs Benny Napoleon and Isaiah “Ike” McKinnon, and could lose the most money if Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr succeeds in slashing benefits during the city’s restructuring.

They are the most notable names on a list obtained by The Detroit News that identifies retirees who have the most expensive pensions in a system that is underfunded by about $3.5 billion.

In all, two dozen retirees receive more than $100,000 annually, according to 2012 data released by the city’s pension funds. Napoleon, who is running for mayor, receives a $111,520 pension a year in addition to his approximate $130,000 salary as Wayne County sheriff. McKinnon gets $92,451 a year.

“I’ve been stabbed twice, shot at eight times and lived through dangerous times in the Police Department, so you want what you believe is due to you,” said McKinnon, 70, a tenured professor at University of Detroit Mercy who has collected $1,069,741 since retiring in 1998. “Is that fair?”

From The Detroit News: Big pension payouts threatened by Detroit crisis | The Detroit News

According to the unions, and the Constitution of Michigan, everyone in the Michigan is responsible for paying the pensions in Detroit.

Then the people of Michigan should receive all assets of the city.

Yes, even Howdy Doody.

 

[Ernie S.]

President Gerald Ford refused to help New York in 1975, a rejection immortalized in the headline “drop dead.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/business/05views.html?_r=0

Just think, if Ford had helped New york it might have turned out to be a major metropolitan center, maybe even the largest city in the US. Instead it is nothing but a vast wasteland where the law of the jungle rules and warlords control the sad ruins of the Empire State Building.

Wait, that was the other universe.

That was under Dinkins. Rudy fixed it for ya.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Does anybody besides me notice that cities did better under Conservative mayors? NYC under Ed Koch and Buffalo under Jim Griffin did fine.

 

[Politico]

Detroit used to have a population of over 2 million. It is now 600,000. As Detroit got smaller, its expenditures got larger. Politicians were voted into office with union support and in return the politicians increased union benefits. It was the same unholy alliance that killed off 36 other cities since 2005.

The leeches finally killed the host. That's what happened. As people left Detroit, fewer people had to pay to support the growing government.

So offshoring the manufacturing base had nothing to do with Detroit's decline.

It was all the "leeches" that most people would call human beings.

They voted almost 100% for Obama who promised this would not happen.