Judge dismisses female genital mutilation charges in historic case

[Pogo]

We have the chance to protect ALL our citizens from child abuse by getting some legislation passed that bans female genital mutilation.

This district court judge, Bernard Friedman, did indeed make a serious error in ruling the state had a right to protect those there whose religious dictates promotes this heinous form of child abuse. It was a sick mistaken ruling, in my opinion.

Possibly. But truth be told, this shouldn't even NEED to go to a Federal Court.

This "should" be able to be handled by a moral and law abiding local community.
And that's the problem, as liberalism spreads, morality has left our communities so anything goes.

We're being incrementally led away from what's right to all that makes a society wrong.

The evil brilliance of opening our immigration system to people that live by the dictates of an antithetical
religion that clashes with our society that recognizes no official religion is that they will forever be a wedge
when it comes to issues like female genital mutilation and they will elect politicians that owe allegiance to Islam rather than the nation itself.

"Islam" is irrelevant here. FGM doesn't come from "Islam". It comes from ancient --- really ancient --- nomadic social traditions. It doesn't even have a religious purpose at all.

It's not a "religious dictate". It's a social custom. Developed way before Islam, way before Christianism, way before Judaism, etc etc.

Oh....Interesting historical context.

In any case I don't see Islam ever doing much, if anything, to end the barbaric custom
so in a sense Islam is sponsoring the practice. In a very real sense.
The Imams could issue official condemnations but it doesn't seem to bother them all that much, if at all.
One of the many hells here on earth is to be born a girl into a strict Muslim family.

So it's a piddling meaningless distinction to claim Islam did not start the practice when it does nothing to stop it
among it's many members.
Christianity did not start or invent the concept of slavery but in the early to mid nineteenth century the impetus for ending the cruel institution, in the West anyway (it still flourishes in Sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East) came through churches in England and the US.
That's the difference between a moral and immoral religion. Just like the rape gangs that flourish in the UK, Germany, Sweden, etc. Mohammad's followers feel entitled to rape women who aren't Muslims and their religion with the fifth century mind set continues to plague the earth.

Yes and I believe imams and other religious leaders already are working against the practice. As I said in Mecca it's considered barbaric. That's because the geographic areas where it developed did not involve Mecca or that area. You'll find areas were FGM persists have geography in common, not religion (e.g. Uganda, 85% Christian). So no, Islam doesn't "sponsor" it. Imbibers in FGM are Muslims, Christians, animists and people with no religion at all because it has no religious function.

And no, Islam doesn't condone rape either. That again is a social construct. It has way more to do with war than with any religion.

Rape of non Muslim women is considered permissible and it happens plenty in the UK and Europe.
So you are just plainly wrong. And opposition in Minnesota and Michigan to anti FGM legislation has come from, surprise,
Islamic factions.
You "believe" that Muslims are working on their FGM problem and yet it goes on.

Ilhan Omar has "solved" things by voting for a ban on FGM but saying the law's penalties should not apply to the families of Muslim girls who are scarred for life by the barbaric procedure. However it's already against the law so the judge who upheld the right of Michigan doctors to perform this gruesome surgery should be over ruled and censored for his
decision.

No it is not "considered permissible". If it were "considered permissible" it would be neither an issue nor a weapon.

Far as I could read the judge didn't "uphold the right" of anybody to do anything. He ruled that the law being applied, cannot be applied under the Constitution. When your argument is so weak that you have to change the realities of what went down, you don't have an argument.

135 did the same thing. He has no argument either.

 

[Pogo]

Both Jews and Muslims perform ritual circumcisions on boys so to claim there is no religious component to the practice
is pretty absurd. Khitan (circumcision) - Wikipedia
It helps to actually research the things you pontificate on.

And so do Christians, and so do polytheistic animists, and so do indigenous Native Americans. What have we learned here? That one of us is trying to jam a false association together. We can only guess why you're doing that.

I actually already have researched this. Anthropology was my college major. You? Curled up by the fire scanning the pages of TROP. Poster please.

One of the stranger (to us) practices is penile subincision, where the underside of the penis is slashed to simulate the vagina as a maturation ritual, just as FGM is. And yet here again --- the practice is a social construct related to sexual maturation and has zero to do with Islam or any other reilgion. Because again ---- sexual maturation rituals are not religious rituals.

 

[Pogo]

Tell what are the odds of getting penile cancer and compare that to any other cancer and let me know exactly how big of a risk it is

And this is the American Association of Pediatrics position

Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child’s current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child.

Circumcision Policy Statement

So you feel like rolling the dice when it comes to contracting penile cancer all for the sake of a ridiculous annoying and useless flap of penis skin? That says it all,doesn't it.

And if you think your chances of penile cancer are small you can thank all the circumcised people that had the good sense to do the right thing or the luck to have responsible parents.
Those odds of losing your precious penis, foreskin and all, to cancer goes up for the fanatical ridiculous fans of
penis turtlenecks.

From your own link the issue is settled quite clearly.
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision".

Why a supposedly responsible medical association would not recommend a simple medical procedure that's been used for thousands of years and they admit is beneficial is a mystery to me. Pressure from zealous nut jobs, no doubt.

You know what's fatal 100% of the time?


LIFE.

Stop being such a scared little pussy

LOL...Your so called argument for foreskins comes down to this brilliant life plan: Fuck cancer! Light em' up smokey.
Go ahead and smoke like a stove. It shows you are a real man. Heart attacks? Fuck that! Have pizzas and cream puffs every meal and wash it down with Jim Beam. AIDS? Don't be a scared little pussy! Fuck anything that gets near you.

Your advice is hilarious and even funnier when you consider I don't want a skin overcoat for my penis. It's ugly, comical
looking and a bother to deal with. Animals like dogs have their penises covered by skin. I am not a dog.
You are ridiculous and a sensible fear of cancer is only part of the story.

And you're a pathetic sheep

You just want to look like every other guy who was mutilated when they were infants

But if you're really afraid of dying then you must live in terror every day because life is 100% fatal

I suppose by your idiocy that means you want to look like a Doberman Pinscher and it's more like I don't want to
look like some dumb farm animal than wanting to look like other normal sensible males.

So you keep your penis skin turtleneck. I'm sure it suits animals quite well. And continue to smoke it up, drink it all up, shoot and snort it all up, eat it all up, fuck it all up and continue to engage in brainless risky behavior.
Just like an animal completely unaware of the consequences of needless stupidity....all for the love of your own caveman penis.

And only an idiot would think he could shame someone because he won't ignore the
risks of penile cancer. I wouldn't want your karma...or penis.

How many Dobermans --- or any other dog or animal --- have you ever seen come down with penile cancer?

 

[protectionist]

No, it is not. It's an ancient cultural tradition that was here LOOOOONG before Islam, having no connection TO it, whatsoever.

Perhaps you'd like to essplain to the class the inconvenient spread of FGM in places where Islam never penetrated. Perhaps that challenge is utterly beyond your capability.

Don't sit here and continue to post bullshit when you've already been proven bullshitious.

Your posts are hilarious in their absurdity that you don't even see. As the ROCK of WWE fame would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER" where else FGM has been active. None of that means it isn't a part of Muslim culture. it certainly is.

By your logic, the mandolin would not be a part of Bluegrass music, because mandolins were played for hundreds of years before Bluegrass began (in 1945). You'd be wrong. The mandolin is a fundamental part of the Bluegrass band today in 2018, and it even was the instrument played by Bluegrass founder, Bill Monroe.

Nope, that does not follow. Adolphe Sax didn't invent the saxophone so that John Coltrane could play jazz. Jazz didn't even exist yet. A mandolin is a bluegrass instrument when it's used for bluegrass, it will be a classical instrument where it's used for "classical" etc. In a more appropriate analogy, the fact that Adolphe Sax may have been a Catholic doesn't make the saxophone a "Catholic" instrument, since it has nothing to do with religion. Hell, you could play Klezmer music on it if you want to.

The fact is ---------- AGAIN ----------- there is no religious function in a cutting of a sex organ, male or female. It PREDATES all the religions we have including Islam, including Christianism, including Judaism, including Buddhism, whatever you like. In other words when Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha or Moses were doing their thing it was already there. Thus, simple linear time renders your cause-and-effect theories inoperative.

Just as there is no religious function in playing a saxophone. Just as playing a santour or an oud is not a "Muslim" thing.

This ain't rocket surgery here son. It's simple placing things in temporal order. When we call our biggest river the Mississippi we do so because Native Americans who were already here before us, called it that. We didn't just invent a name and then attribute it to them retroactively. You can't even do that.

Oh and "culture" is not "religion". There is no "Muslim culture" any more than there's a "Catholic culture" or a "Buddhist culture". Culture is a set of social constructs indigenous to that particular ethnic group and geography. Language. Dress. Cuisine. Social mores and expectations. Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, whatever, can be any of an entire litany of diverse cultures. Sometimes multiple ones in the same person. That's plainly obvious too. You can be Muslim and speak Arabic; you can be Muslim and speak no Arabic at all. Or, you can speak Arabic as your native language and have no involvement whatsoever with Islam. Same with a Christian, a Buddhist, anything you want. The English you and I speak is the same whether the person we speak to is a Christian, a Jew, an aheist, etc etc. They're independent of each other.

I'm not at all sure what the allusion to fake wrestling is in your post for. Apparently you're trying to tell us that you can post whatever ass-sertions you want and "IT DOESN'T MATTER" that they're easily disproven made-up crapola because as Asimov put it, " my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge". Well ------------ no. It ain't. This is not the world of fake wrestling. If you think that's where we are, it goes a long way to essplaining the inane drivel you post.

1. Once again....and again….and again. Islam, and its practicing of FGM has nothing to do with religion. It does have to do with Islam which has adopted it as one of its numerous, peculiar, unAmerican customs. So I don't know why you keep on babbling about religion, which Islam is the farthest thing from.

2. Yes, as you said, "a mandolin is a bluegrass instrument when it's used for bluegrass", and it's prior general use does not change that, just as prior use of FGM doesn't change that it is a Muslim custom when performed by Muslims.

3. Of course there is a Muslim culture. That's exactly what it is, All it's strange and evil practices (wife-beating, pedophilia, slavery, animal murder on Eid al Adha, etc, are all crazy customs of people crazy enough to be part of this harmful lunacy.

4. Your defense of the lunacy of Islam shows that you are just another deranged liberal, who has no respectful attachment to the USA, and our norms and culture.

 

[Silhouette]

Imbibers in FGM are Muslims, Christians, animists and people with no religion at all because it has no Ilhan Omar has "solved" things by voting for a ban on FGM but saying the law's penalties should not apply to the families of Muslim girls who are scarred for life by the barbaric procedure. However it's already against the law so the judge who upheld the right of Michigan doctors to perform this gruesome surgery should be over ruled and censored for his decision.

The judge should be removed from the bench & charged with accessory to felony child sexual abuse.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

So you feel like rolling the dice when it comes to contracting penile cancer all for the sake of a ridiculous annoying and useless flap of penis skin? That says it all,doesn't it.

And if you think your chances of penile cancer are small you can thank all the circumcised people that had the good sense to do the right thing or the luck to have responsible parents.
Those odds of losing your precious penis, foreskin and all, to cancer goes up for the fanatical ridiculous fans of
penis turtlenecks.

From your own link the issue is settled quite clearly.
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision".

Why a supposedly responsible medical association would not recommend a simple medical procedure that's been used for thousands of years and they admit is beneficial is a mystery to me. Pressure from zealous nut jobs, no doubt.

You know what's fatal 100% of the time?


LIFE.

Stop being such a scared little pussy

LOL...Your so called argument for foreskins comes down to this brilliant life plan: Fuck cancer! Light em' up smokey.
Go ahead and smoke like a stove. It shows you are a real man. Heart attacks? Fuck that! Have pizzas and cream puffs every meal and wash it down with Jim Beam. AIDS? Don't be a scared little pussy! Fuck anything that gets near you.

Your advice is hilarious and even funnier when you consider I don't want a skin overcoat for my penis. It's ugly, comical
looking and a bother to deal with. Animals like dogs have their penises covered by skin. I am not a dog.
You are ridiculous and a sensible fear of cancer is only part of the story.

And you're a pathetic sheep

You just want to look like every other guy who was mutilated when they were infants

But if you're really afraid of dying then you must live in terror every day because life is 100% fatal

I suppose by your idiocy that means you want to look like a Doberman Pinscher and it's more like I don't want to
look like some dumb farm animal than wanting to look like other normal sensible males.

So you keep your penis skin turtleneck. I'm sure it suits animals quite well. And continue to smoke it up, drink it all up, shoot and snort it all up, eat it all up, fuck it all up and continue to engage in brainless risky behavior.
Just like an animal completely unaware of the consequences of needless stupidity....all for the love of your own caveman penis.

And only an idiot would think he could shame someone because he won't ignore the
risks of penile cancer. I wouldn't want your karma...or penis.

How many Dobermans --- or any other dog or animal --- have you ever seen come down with penile cancer?

This is funny stuff! I have no idea but you must since you brought the subject up.

But if you are suggesting that penile cancer is not a heightened threat for the lovers of their penis skin turtlenecks you'd better check with the AMA and other medical sources that suggest a real link between this useless vestigial flap of skin on your johnson and penile cancer.

Bleeker, M. C. G.; Heideman, D. A. M.; Snijders, P. J. F.; Horenblas, S.; Dillner, J.; Meijer, C. J. L. M. (2008). "Penile cancer: Epidemiology, pathogenesis and prevention". World Journal of Urology. 27 (2): 141–150. doi:10.1007/s00345-008-0302-z. PMID 18607597.

I am fascinated by the emotional and irrational attachment some nut jobs have for this comical, odd looking bit of skin that has no real function or purpose since man left the stone age but who can explain the workings of a compromised brain.
I guess that includes you also?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Both Jews and Muslims perform ritual circumcisions on boys so to claim there is no religious component to the practice
is pretty absurd. Khitan (circumcision) - Wikipedia
It helps to actually research the things you pontificate on.

And so do Christians, and so do polytheistic animists, and so do indigenous Native Americans. What have we learned here? That one of us is trying to jam a false association together. We can only guess why you're doing that.

I actually already have researched this. Anthropology was my college major. You? Curled up by the fire scanning the pages of TROP. Poster please.

One of the stranger (to us) practices is penile subincision, where the underside of the penis is slashed to simulate the vagina as a maturation ritual, just as FGM is. And yet here again --- the practice is a social construct related to sexual maturation and has zero to do with Islam or any other reilgion. Because again ---- sexual maturation rituals are not religious rituals.

Poster....PLEASE! Do Christians REALLY practice female circumcision? That's fuckin' funny (your brazen attempts at lying and bluffing your way through this all, I mean).
Penile subincision is a flaming red herring and so is the whole issue of where the practice of fmg came from and who practiced it before Islam even existed.That's all intensely immaterial.

The point is it"s the Muslims who have allowed the practice to go on right under their noses (look at the lady doctor in Michigan who was at the center of this whole legal dispute over fmg recently, Dr. Juman Nagarwala) and tell me what is instantly notable about her. Here: Law banning female genital mutilation ruled unconstitutional; Michigan doctors cleared of charges
I'll help you out.

The very fact that you claim to know of a few Imams who are trying to end the practice only underlines how embedded it is in Islam and how pervasive it is. But I'll bet that never
occurred to you.

I don't know why you stuck your nose into this issue to begin with, pontificating and trying to twist facts and introduce all sorts of useless ephemera to deny how Islam and female genital mutilation are intertwined to a considerable degree (not every Muslim practices this barbaric procedure but enough do to give the Muslims yet another incredible black eye).

You need to pack up your little tent and go away. And take your amateur anthropology "expertise" with you. I appreciate the fact that you give me the opportunity to tear into
your posts and make minced meat of them but it's still tiresome constantly addressing
your rationalizations and red herrings.

I get it: Criticizing Islam for it's backwards cruelties towards females makes you want to come to their aid and put up your petty defenses. I guess you love covering for them more than you care for the females who have had the extreme misfortune
to come into contact with their ultra regressive religion.

 

[Silhouette]

Female mutilation amputates the clitoris. It’s the same as amputating a little boy’s entire penis, not just his foreskin. It’s federal child sex abuse & felony assault with grave bodily injury.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

We have the chance to protect ALL our citizens from child abuse by getting some legislation passed that bans female genital mutilation.

This district court judge, Bernard Friedman, did indeed make a serious error in ruling the state had a right to protect those there whose religious dictates promotes this heinous form of child abuse. It was a sick mistaken ruling, in my opinion.

The evil brilliance of opening our immigration system to people that live by the dictates of an antithetical
religion that clashes with our society that recognizes no official religion is that they will forever be a wedge
when it comes to issues like female genital mutilation and they will elect politicians that owe allegiance to Islam rather than the nation itself.

"Islam" is irrelevant here. FGM doesn't come from "Islam". It comes from ancient --- really ancient --- nomadic social traditions. It doesn't even have a religious purpose at all.

It's not a "religious dictate". It's a social custom. Developed way before Islam, way before Christianism, way before Judaism, etc etc.

Oh....Interesting historical context.

In any case I don't see Islam ever doing much, if anything, to end the barbaric custom
so in a sense Islam is sponsoring the practice. In a very real sense.
The Imams could issue official condemnations but it doesn't seem to bother them all that much, if at all.
One of the many hells here on earth is to be born a girl into a strict Muslim family.

So it's a piddling meaningless distinction to claim Islam did not start the practice when it does nothing to stop it
among it's many members.
Christianity did not start or invent the concept of slavery but in the early to mid nineteenth century the impetus for ending the cruel institution, in the West anyway (it still flourishes in Sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East) came through churches in England and the US.
That's the difference between a moral and immoral religion. Just like the rape gangs that flourish in the UK, Germany, Sweden, etc. Mohammad's followers feel entitled to rape women who aren't Muslims and their religion with the fifth century mind set continues to plague the earth.

Yes and I believe imams and other religious leaders already are working against the practice. As I said in Mecca it's considered barbaric. That's because the geographic areas where it developed did not involve Mecca or that area. You'll find areas were FGM persists have geography in common, not religion (e.g. Uganda, 85% Christian). So no, Islam doesn't "sponsor" it. Imbibers in FGM are Muslims, Christians, animists and people with no religion at all because it has no religious function.

And no, Islam doesn't condone rape either. That again is a social construct. It has way more to do with war than with any religion.

Rape of non Muslim women is considered permissible and it happens plenty in the UK and Europe.
So you are just plainly wrong. And opposition in Minnesota and Michigan to anti FGM legislation has come from, surprise,
Islamic factions.
You "believe" that Muslims are working on their FGM problem and yet it goes on.

Ilhan Omar has "solved" things by voting for a ban on FGM but saying the law's penalties should not apply to the families of Muslim girls who are scarred for life by the barbaric procedure. However it's already against the law so the judge who upheld the right of Michigan doctors to perform this gruesome surgery should be over ruled and censored for his
decision.

No it is not "considered permissible". If it were "considered permissible" it would be neither an issue nor a weapon.

Far as I could read the judge didn't "uphold the right" of anybody to do anything. He ruled that the law being applied, cannot be applied under the Constitution. When your argument is so weak that you have to change the realities of what went down, you don't have an argument.

135 did the same thing. He has no argument either.

"No it is not "considered permissible". If it were "considered permissible" it would be neither an issue nor a weapon."
Islam’s Treatment of Women – Rape Permitted of non-Muslims
You clearly are our of your element. Check the rape squads in the UK and see what single factor (besides nation of origin) unites all the men caught and convicted. These men are all under the impression that their religion gives them permission to rape and enslave young English girls.
Why are they wrong and you right? You aren't and the same is true in Germany, Sweden etc. All over Europe with the introduction of refugees from the Middle East the incidents of rape have
suddenly spiked dramatically. Wake the fuck up!

Your other comment is also pure bullshit sophistry. His (Bernard Friedman Federal judge rejects ban on female genital mutilation) ruling amounts to a green light for certain doctors and parties to continue to cruelly butcher the genitals of young Muslim girls.

Why you would try to dispute this fact? Under his inexplicable ruling the people engaging in the gruesome cruel practice of fmg have the right to continue on with their butchery. Only an idiot would dispute this. You are that idiot, apparently.

 

[Pogo]

No, it is not. It's an ancient cultural tradition that was here LOOOOONG before Islam, having no connection TO it, whatsoever.

Perhaps you'd like to essplain to the class the inconvenient spread of FGM in places where Islam never penetrated. Perhaps that challenge is utterly beyond your capability.

Don't sit here and continue to post bullshit when you've already been proven bullshitious.

Your posts are hilarious in their absurdity that you don't even see. As the ROCK of WWE fame would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER" where else FGM has been active. None of that means it isn't a part of Muslim culture. it certainly is.

By your logic, the mandolin would not be a part of Bluegrass music, because mandolins were played for hundreds of years before Bluegrass began (in 1945). You'd be wrong. The mandolin is a fundamental part of the Bluegrass band today in 2018, and it even was the instrument played by Bluegrass founder, Bill Monroe.

Nope, that does not follow. Adolphe Sax didn't invent the saxophone so that John Coltrane could play jazz. Jazz didn't even exist yet. A mandolin is a bluegrass instrument when it's used for bluegrass, it will be a classical instrument where it's used for "classical" etc. In a more appropriate analogy, the fact that Adolphe Sax may have been a Catholic doesn't make the saxophone a "Catholic" instrument, since it has nothing to do with religion. Hell, you could play Klezmer music on it if you want to.

The fact is ---------- AGAIN ----------- there is no religious function in a cutting of a sex organ, male or female. It PREDATES all the religions we have including Islam, including Christianism, including Judaism, including Buddhism, whatever you like. In other words when Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha or Moses were doing their thing it was already there. Thus, simple linear time renders your cause-and-effect theories inoperative.

Just as there is no religious function in playing a saxophone. Just as playing a santour or an oud is not a "Muslim" thing.

This ain't rocket surgery here son. It's simple placing things in temporal order. When we call our biggest river the Mississippi we do so because Native Americans who were already here before us, called it that. We didn't just invent a name and then attribute it to them retroactively. You can't even do that.

Oh and "culture" is not "religion". There is no "Muslim culture" any more than there's a "Catholic culture" or a "Buddhist culture". Culture is a set of social constructs indigenous to that particular ethnic group and geography. Language. Dress. Cuisine. Social mores and expectations. Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, whatever, can be any of an entire litany of diverse cultures. Sometimes multiple ones in the same person. That's plainly obvious too. You can be Muslim and speak Arabic; you can be Muslim and speak no Arabic at all. Or, you can speak Arabic as your native language and have no involvement whatsoever with Islam. Same with a Christian, a Buddhist, anything you want. The English you and I speak is the same whether the person we speak to is a Christian, a Jew, an atheist, etc etc. They're independent of each other.

I'm not at all sure what the allusion to fake wrestling is in your post for. Apparently you're trying to tell us that you can post whatever ass-sertions you want and "IT DOESN'T MATTER" that they're easily disproven made-up crapola because as Asimov put it, " my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge". Well ------------ no. It ain't. This is not the world of fake wrestling. If you think that's where we are, it goes a long way to essplaining the inane drivel you post.

1. Once again....and again….and again. Islam, and its practicing of FGM has nothing to do with religion. It does have to do with Islam which has adopted it as one of its numerous, peculiar, unAmerican customs. So I don't know why you keep on babbling about religion, which Islam is the farthest thing from.

2. Yes, as you said, "a mandolin is a bluegrass instrument when it's used for bluegrass", and it's prior general use does not change that, just as prior use of FGM doesn't change that it is a Muslim custom when performed by Muslims.

3. Of course there is a Muslim culture. That's exactly what it is, All it's strange and evil practices (wife-beating, pedophilia, slavery, animal murder on Eid al Adha, etc, are all crazy customs of people crazy enough to be part of this harmful lunacy.

4. Your defense of the lunacy of Islam shows that you are just another deranged liberal, who has no respectful attachment to the USA, and our norms and culture.

1. Once again and again, your butthurt over Islam's categorization as a religion is irrelevant to this point. That is, regardless whether you believe Islam is a religion or isn't, FGM STILL predates it by millennia. So your point here is absolutely moot since the issue here is not what is or isn't a religion ---- it's what was here first. And that would be FGM, by many centuries across many miles on multiple continents.

2. And once again, Adolphe Sax being a Catholic doesn't make the saxophone a "Catholic" instrument or a "Christian" instrument, since that instrument has nothing to do with the exercise of any religion. Whelp ---- same thing with FGM. It's never served a religious function for anybody. Nor has the saxophone.

3. Bullshit. Religion is absolutely NOT culture. Go ahead and essplain to the class how the lifestyle of a Methodist in Ohio is exactly like that of a Haitian or a Coptic Christian in East Africa, after all they share the same religion.

4. Once AGAIN I've posted nothing about "Islam" nor about the "USA"; I posted about anthropological facts and simple linear time. A linear time progression that does not allow for the fake fantasy folderol you've tried to pass off here out of your own ignorance.

 

[Pogo]

Female mutilation amputates the clitoris. It’s the same as amputating a little boy’s entire penis, not just his foreskin. It’s federal child sex abuse & felony assault with grave bodily injury.

And it's primitive ignorance that even got it started in the first place. Which is ironic considering the two yahoos bending over backward in this thread to pretend we're talking about religion here.

One thing about abject ignorance ---- it's tenacious. Both the persistence of this disgusting practice and the yahoos' disgusting ignorance are classic cases in point.

 

[Pogo]

Both Jews and Muslims perform ritual circumcisions on boys so to claim there is no religious component to the practice
is pretty absurd. Khitan (circumcision) - Wikipedia
It helps to actually research the things you pontificate on.

And so do Christians, and so do polytheistic animists, and so do indigenous Native Americans. What have we learned here? That one of us is trying to jam a false association together. We can only guess why you're doing that.

I actually already have researched this. Anthropology was my college major. You? Curled up by the fire scanning the pages of TROP. Poster please.

One of the stranger (to us) practices is penile subincision, where the underside of the penis is slashed to simulate the vagina as a maturation ritual, just as FGM is. And yet here again --- the practice is a social construct related to sexual maturation and has zero to do with Islam or any other reilgion. Because again ---- sexual maturation rituals are not religious rituals.

Poster....PLEASE! Do Christians REALLY practice female circumcision?

Yeah actually they do. So do atheists and animists. So do some Native American peoples in South America who are neither Christian nor Muslim.

>> A 2013 UNICEF report identified 17 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15 to 49 had undergone FGM; in Niger 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, compared with two percent of their Muslim counterparts.[139] The only Jewish group known to have practised it are the Beta Israel of Ethiopia. Judaism requires male circumcision, but does not allow FGM.[140] FGM is also practised by animist groups, particularly in Guinea and Mali.[141] << --- Wiki, the encyclopedia so freely accessible that the Cult of Ignorance steers clear of it at every opportunity​

So did "western" medicine until more recently that either of you yahoos are apparently aware:

>> Gynaecologists in 19th-century Europe and the United States removed the clitoris to treat insanity and masturbation.[158] A British doctor, Robert Thomas, suggested clitoridectomy as a cure for nymphomaniain 1813.[159][160] The first reported clitoridectomy in the West, described in The Lancet in 1825, was performed in 1822 in Berlin by Karl Ferdinand von Graefe on a 15-year-old girl who was masturbating excessively.[159][161]

Isaac Baker Brown, an English gynaecologist, president of the Medical Society of London and co-founder in 1845 of St. Mary's Hospital, believed that masturbation, or "unnatural irritation" of the clitoris, caused hysteria, spinal irritation, fits, idiocy, mania and death.[161][162] He therefore "set to work to remove the clitoris whenever he had the opportunity of doing so", according to his obituary.[163] Brown performed several clitoridectomies between 1859 and 1866.[162] In the United States, J. Marion Sims followed Brown's work and in 1862 slit the neck of a woman's uterus and amputated her clitoris, "for the relief of the nervous or hysterical condition as recommended by Baker Brown".[164] When Brown published his views in On the Curability of Certain Forms of Insanity, Epilepsy, Catalepsy, and Hysteria in Females(1866), doctors in London accused him of quackery and expelled him from the Obstetrical Society.[165][162][166]

Later in the 19th century, A. J. Bloch, a surgeon in New Orleans, removed the clitoris of a two-year-old girl who was reportedly masturbating.[167] According to a 1985 paper in the Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey, clitoridectomy was performed in the United States into the 1960s to treat hysteria, erotomania and lesbianism.[168] From the mid-1950s, James Burt, a gynaecologist in Dayton, Ohio, performed non-standard repairs of episiotomies after childbirth, adding more stitches to make the vaginal opening smaller. From 1966 until 1989, he performed "love surgery" by cutting women's pubococcygeus muscle, repositioning the vagina and urethra, and removing the clitoral hood, thereby making their genital area more appropriate, in his view, for intercourse in the missionary position.[169] "Women are structurally inadequate for intercourse," he wrote; he said he would turn them into "horny little mice".[170] In the 1960s and 1970s he performed these procedures without consent while repairing episiotomies and performing hysterectomies and other surgery; he said he had performed a variation of them on 4,000 women by 1975.[169] Following complaints, he was required in 1989 to stop practicing medicine in the United States.[171] << (ibid)​

Is it somehow odd that none of these histories at any point even mention the religion of any of these doctors?

Should it be?

When you watch a baseball game is it odd that when a batter comes up they tell you his batting average, what he's done lately, how he's fared against this pitcher ---- and yet never mention the batter's religion??

Exactly, of course they don't. Because it's got jack shit to do with religion. It's not a fucking religious ritual. It has no religious function. PERIOD. And it never did.

 

[Snouter]

Middle East insanity (Islam or Jewish and delusional Christians) has no place in the Western World. Both cults cut of sex organ tissue to appease their fake deities.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

No, it is not. It's an ancient cultural tradition that was here LOOOOONG before Islam, having no connection TO it, whatsoever.

Perhaps you'd like to essplain to the class the inconvenient spread of FGM in places where Islam never penetrated. Perhaps that challenge is utterly beyond your capability.

Don't sit here and continue to post bullshit when you've already been proven bullshitious.

Your posts are hilarious in their absurdity that you don't even see. As the ROCK of WWE fame would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER" where else FGM has been active. None of that means it isn't a part of Muslim culture. it certainly is.

By your logic, the mandolin would not be a part of Bluegrass music, because mandolins were played for hundreds of years before Bluegrass began (in 1945). You'd be wrong. The mandolin is a fundamental part of the Bluegrass band today in 2018, and it even was the instrument played by Bluegrass founder, Bill Monroe.

Nope, that does not follow. Adolphe Sax didn't invent the saxophone so that John Coltrane could play jazz. Jazz didn't even exist yet. A mandolin is a bluegrass instrument when it's used for bluegrass, it will be a classical instrument where it's used for "classical" etc. In a more appropriate analogy, the fact that Adolphe Sax may have been a Catholic doesn't make the saxophone a "Catholic" instrument, since it has nothing to do with religion. Hell, you could play Klezmer music on it if you want to.

The fact is ---------- AGAIN ----------- there is no religious function in a cutting of a sex organ, male or female. It PREDATES all the religions we have including Islam, including Christianism, including Judaism, including Buddhism, whatever you like. In other words when Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha or Moses were doing their thing it was already there. Thus, simple linear time renders your cause-and-effect theories inoperative.

Just as there is no religious function in playing a saxophone. Just as playing a santour or an oud is not a "Muslim" thing.

This ain't rocket surgery here son. It's simple placing things in temporal order. When we call our biggest river the Mississippi we do so because Native Americans who were already here before us, called it that. We didn't just invent a name and then attribute it to them retroactively. You can't even do that.

Oh and "culture" is not "religion". There is no "Muslim culture" any more than there's a "Catholic culture" or a "Buddhist culture". Culture is a set of social constructs indigenous to that particular ethnic group and geography. Language. Dress. Cuisine. Social mores and expectations. Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, whatever, can be any of an entire litany of diverse cultures. Sometimes multiple ones in the same person. That's plainly obvious too. You can be Muslim and speak Arabic; you can be Muslim and speak no Arabic at all. Or, you can speak Arabic as your native language and have no involvement whatsoever with Islam. Same with a Christian, a Buddhist, anything you want. The English you and I speak is the same whether the person we speak to is a Christian, a Jew, an atheist, etc etc. They're independent of each other.

I'm not at all sure what the allusion to fake wrestling is in your post for. Apparently you're trying to tell us that you can post whatever ass-sertions you want and "IT DOESN'T MATTER" that they're easily disproven made-up crapola because as Asimov put it, " my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge". Well ------------ no. It ain't. This is not the world of fake wrestling. If you think that's where we are, it goes a long way to essplaining the inane drivel you post.

1. Once again....and again….and again. Islam, and its practicing of FGM has nothing to do with religion. It does have to do with Islam which has adopted it as one of its numerous, peculiar, unAmerican customs. So I don't know why you keep on babbling about religion, which Islam is the farthest thing from.

2. Yes, as you said, "a mandolin is a bluegrass instrument when it's used for bluegrass", and it's prior general use does not change that, just as prior use of FGM doesn't change that it is a Muslim custom when performed by Muslims.

3. Of course there is a Muslim culture. That's exactly what it is, All it's strange and evil practices (wife-beating, pedophilia, slavery, animal murder on Eid al Adha, etc, are all crazy customs of people crazy enough to be part of this harmful lunacy.

4. Your defense of the lunacy of Islam shows that you are just another deranged liberal, who has no respectful attachment to the USA, and our norms and culture.

1. Once again and again, your butthurt over Islam's categorization as a religion is irrelevant to this point. That is, regardless whether you believe Islam is a religion or isn't, FGM STILL predates it by millennia. So your point here is absolutely moot since the issue here is not what is or isn't a religion ---- it's what was here first. And that would be FGM, by many centuries across many miles on multiple continents.

2. And once again, Adolphe Sax being a Catholic doesn't make the saxophone a "Catholic" instrument or a "Christian" instrument, since that instrument has nothing to do with the exercise of any religion. Whelp ---- same thing with FGM. It's never served a religious function for anybody. Nor has the saxophone.

3. Bullshit. Religion is absolutely NOT culture. Go ahead and essplain to the class how the lifestyle of a Methodist in Ohio is exactly like that of a Haitian or a Coptic Christian in East Africa, after all they share the same religion.

4. Once AGAIN I've posted nothing about "Islam" nor about the "USA"; I posted about anthropological facts and simple linear time. A linear time progression that does not allow for the fake fantasy folderol you've tried to pass off here out of your own ignorance.

FGM predates Islam. So what? It's true and now what does that have to do with anything.? You want to fight for that point?
You win because it doesn't matter and I've never contested the point. The point is how Islam has happily let fgm be
within it's sphere of influence and permitted the barbaric custom to go on under it's very nose.

All your points are the same, asserting something no one is arguing over. How fucking lame is that? And how stupid are your pointless analogies?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Both Jews and Muslims perform ritual circumcisions on boys so to claim there is no religious component to the practice
is pretty absurd. Khitan (circumcision) - Wikipedia
It helps to actually research the things you pontificate on.

And so do Christians, and so do polytheistic animists, and so do indigenous Native Americans. What have we learned here? That one of us is trying to jam a false association together. We can only guess why you're doing that.

I actually already have researched this. Anthropology was my college major. You? Curled up by the fire scanning the pages of TROP. Poster please.

One of the stranger (to us) practices is penile subincision, where the underside of the penis is slashed to simulate the vagina as a maturation ritual, just as FGM is. And yet here again --- the practice is a social construct related to sexual maturation and has zero to do with Islam or any other reilgion. Because again ---- sexual maturation rituals are not religious rituals.

Poster....PLEASE! Do Christians REALLY practice female circumcision?

Yeah actually they do. So do atheists and animists. So do some Native American peoples in South America who are neither Christian nor Muslim.

>> A 2013 UNICEF report identified 17 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15 to 49 had undergone FGM; in Niger 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, compared with two percent of their Muslim counterparts.[139] The only Jewish group known to have practised it are the Beta Israel of Ethiopia. Judaism requires male circumcision, but does not allow FGM.[140] FGM is also practised by animist groups, particularly in Guinea and Mali.[141] << --- Wiki, the encyclopedia so freely accessible that the Cult of Ignorance steers clear of it at every opportunity​

So did "western" medicine until more recently that either of you yahoos are apparently aware:

>> Gynaecologists in 19th-century Europe and the United States removed the clitoris to treat insanity and masturbation.[158] A British doctor, Robert Thomas, suggested clitoridectomy as a cure for nymphomaniain 1813.[159][160] The first reported clitoridectomy in the West, described in The Lancet in 1825, was performed in 1822 in Berlin by Karl Ferdinand von Graefe on a 15-year-old girl who was masturbating excessively.[159][161]

Isaac Baker Brown, an English gynaecologist, president of the Medical Society of London and co-founder in 1845 of St. Mary's Hospital, believed that masturbation, or "unnatural irritation" of the clitoris, caused hysteria, spinal irritation, fits, idiocy, mania and death.[161][162] He therefore "set to work to remove the clitoris whenever he had the opportunity of doing so", according to his obituary.[163] Brown performed several clitoridectomies between 1859 and 1866.[162] In the United States, J. Marion Sims followed Brown's work and in 1862 slit the neck of a woman's uterus and amputated her clitoris, "for the relief of the nervous or hysterical condition as recommended by Baker Brown".[164] When Brown published his views in On the Curability of Certain Forms of Insanity, Epilepsy, Catalepsy, and Hysteria in Females(1866), doctors in London accused him of quackery and expelled him from the Obstetrical Society.[165][162][166]

Later in the 19th century, A. J. Bloch, a surgeon in New Orleans, removed the clitoris of a two-year-old girl who was reportedly masturbating.[167] According to a 1985 paper in the Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey, clitoridectomy was performed in the United States into the 1960s to treat hysteria, erotomania and lesbianism.[168] From the mid-1950s, James Burt, a gynaecologist in Dayton, Ohio, performed non-standard repairs of episiotomies after childbirth, adding more stitches to make the vaginal opening smaller. From 1966 until 1989, he performed "love surgery" by cutting women's pubococcygeus muscle, repositioning the vagina and urethra, and removing the clitoral hood, thereby making their genital area more appropriate, in his view, for intercourse in the missionary position.[169] "Women are structurally inadequate for intercourse," he wrote; he said he would turn them into "horny little mice".[170] In the 1960s and 1970s he performed these procedures without consent while repairing episiotomies and performing hysterectomies and other surgery; he said he had performed a variation of them on 4,000 women by 1975.[169] Following complaints, he was required in 1989 to stop practicing medicine in the United States.[171] << (ibid)​

Is it somehow odd that none of these histories at any point even mention the religion of any of these doctors?

Should it be?

When you watch a baseball game is it odd that when a batter comes up they tell you his batting average, what he's done lately, how he's fared against this pitcher ---- and yet never mention the batter's religion??

Exactly, of course they don't. Because it's got jack shit to do with religion. It's not a fucking religious ritual. It has no religious function. PERIOD. And it never did.

Not a religious function but some religions coexist with fgm and make no concerted effort to stop the practice while others do and it's an abhorrent taboo within the Christian church.

In the recent notorious case that judge Bernard Friedman declared state law could not
outlaw the practice of fmg guess who the defendants were? And guess what Islam has done
to stop it's followers, in certain regions, from practicing this abomination?

When Mohammad was converting whole nations and regions by the sword and open warfare
away from paganism to his brand of nuttiness he never stopped for a second to also
tell these new followers that fmg was an evil institution that had to stop. And so it's remained.

 

[Silhouette]

It’s child sexual abuse, assault with grave bodily injury. What would this conversation be like if we were discussing it’s counterpart: complete amputation of a boy’s penis. ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You know what's fatal 100% of the time?


LIFE.

Stop being such a scared little pussy

LOL...Your so called argument for foreskins comes down to this brilliant life plan: Fuck cancer! Light em' up smokey.
Go ahead and smoke like a stove. It shows you are a real man. Heart attacks? Fuck that! Have pizzas and cream puffs every meal and wash it down with Jim Beam. AIDS? Don't be a scared little pussy! Fuck anything that gets near you.

Your advice is hilarious and even funnier when you consider I don't want a skin overcoat for my penis. It's ugly, comical
looking and a bother to deal with. Animals like dogs have their penises covered by skin. I am not a dog.
You are ridiculous and a sensible fear of cancer is only part of the story.

And you're a pathetic sheep

You just want to look like every other guy who was mutilated when they were infants

But if you're really afraid of dying then you must live in terror every day because life is 100% fatal

I suppose by your idiocy that means you want to look like a Doberman Pinscher and it's more like I don't want to
look like some dumb farm animal than wanting to look like other normal sensible males.

You keep your penis skin turtleneck. I'm sure it suits animals quite well. And continue to smoke it up, drink it all up,
eat it all up, fuck it all up and continue to engage in brainless risky behavior. Just like an animal completely unaware of
the consequences of needless stupidity....all for the love of your own caveman penis.

I tell you if stupid were money you would be a fucking billionaire.

That means so much coming from you.

And you obsess over dog penises.

You have issues

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

LOL...Your so called argument for foreskins comes down to this brilliant life plan: Fuck cancer! Light em' up smokey.
Go ahead and smoke like a stove. It shows you are a real man. Heart attacks? Fuck that! Have pizzas and cream puffs every meal and wash it down with Jim Beam. AIDS? Don't be a scared little pussy! Fuck anything that gets near you.

Your advice is hilarious and even funnier when you consider I don't want a skin overcoat for my penis. It's ugly, comical
looking and a bother to deal with. Animals like dogs have their penises covered by skin. I am not a dog.
You are ridiculous and a sensible fear of cancer is only part of the story.

And you're a pathetic sheep

You just want to look like every other guy who was mutilated when they were infants

But if you're really afraid of dying then you must live in terror every day because life is 100% fatal

I suppose by your idiocy that means you want to look like a Doberman Pinscher and it's more like I don't want to
look like some dumb farm animal than wanting to look like other normal sensible males.

You keep your penis skin turtleneck. I'm sure it suits animals quite well. And continue to smoke it up, drink it all up,
eat it all up, fuck it all up and continue to engage in brainless risky behavior. Just like an animal completely unaware of
the consequences of needless stupidity....all for the love of your own caveman penis.

I tell you if stupid were money you would be a fucking billionaire.

That means so much coming from you.

And you obsess over dog penises.

You have issues

You keep bringing it up after my initial pertinent comment. Not me. Fuck off.

 

[Caspian3.2]

Millions of little girls and young women have been subjected to a painful rite of passage that involves cutting their genitals — often without anesthesia — for centuries in parts of Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Detroit Free Press

......
----------------------------

It's mind blowing how many bimbo's think this doesn't exist and isn't real . Yet here is a real case on it.

Perhaps it is real but if you have never lived in any of those countries for extended period of time then you don't know their culture and history.

Genital mutilation happens in the USA all the time on little boys, it's called circumcision, but I don't see people making a huge fuss about it.

Or about the nasty Jewish ritual called metzitzah b'peh where a rabbi sucks the blood from the baby's penis.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Millions of little girls and young women have been subjected to a painful rite of passage that involves cutting their genitals — often without anesthesia — for centuries in parts of Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Detroit Free Press

......
----------------------------

It's mind blowing how many bimbo's think this doesn't exist and isn't real . Yet here is a real case on it.

Perhaps it is real but if you have never lived in any of those countries for extended period of time then you don't know their culture and history.

Genital mutilation happens in the USA all the time on little boys, it's called circumcision, but I don't see people making a huge fuss about it.

Or about the nasty Jewish ritual called metzitzah b'peh where a rabbi sucks the blood from the baby's penis.

You don't see people making a fuss over circumcision because it does not "mutilate" the penis and it actually has health benefits that you fans of your Snuffleupagus penises try to deny.

I don't know what cave you foreskin people stumbled out of but your love for a useless evolutionary relic is just absurd.