Just a clump of cells

[TemplarKormac]

The purpose of banning abortion isn't to save the lives of the unborn, but to discourage women from having sex.

That is pretty much the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The very reason she needs an abortion is because she had sex. She can have sex anytime after an abortion if she wanted to.

 

[BlindBoo]

No, you were lured. I have done it to a lot of gullible liberals like you. I

Lured by a lie that I called you out on? Sure you have, ya big baby liar.

Quite easy actually. Tell a lie, get people to call you out on it, and in the process argue for a flawed premise. I got you to bite. Hard.

I'm sure that somewhere in your mind you believe that don't cha?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The fact of the matter was that I was born at 24 weeks. According to Boo's survivability statistics gave me around a 40% chance of survival.

How does it feel to reduce the life of an unborn child to a number?

It's a snap. Life can often be reduced to a number. In the end that's what you are.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The fact of the matter was that I was born at 24 weeks. According to Boo's survivability statistics gave me around a 40% chance of survival.

How does it feel to reduce the life of an unborn child to a number?

Will you put women to death for 1st degree murder for having an abortion?

How does it feel to be a complete fraud?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The purpose of banning abortion isn't to save the lives of the unborn, but to discourage women from having sex.

That is pretty much the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The very reason she needs an abortion is because she had sex. She can have sex anytime after an abortion if she wanted to.

No, there's a lot of truth in her statement. When it really gets crazy is when there aren't enough White babies, then all hell breaks loose.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, you were lured. I have done it to a lot of gullible liberals like you. I

Lured by a lie that I called you out on? Sure you have, ya big baby liar.

Quite easy actually. Tell a lie, get people to call you out on it, and in the process argue for a flawed premise. I got you to bite. Hard.

I'm sure that somewhere in your mind you believe that don't cha?

Nope. Telling a lie on purpose can induce many a faux pas, just like yours.

 

[BlindBoo]

The fact of the matter was that I was born at 24 weeks

Why should anyone believe you now?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The right wingers quoting science and scientists is quite laughable.
Let me sum it up in one statement for those who are now using science.
CLIMATE CHANGE!!

Dude. You can't go the science route with these people. They don't give a shit about science. They give a shit about what their ideology and peers say is ethical and taking the position most likely to earn them praise from their peers. You have to appeal to their own values if you want to reach them at all. Anything else is going to provoke a sneering contest at best.

What are you trying to accomplish by shouting out the name of yet another topic on which leftists have their heads up their collective asses?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

[

So... the standing point is: YOUR VIOLENT DEATH AS A RESULT OF YOUR BEING DEEMED INCONVENIENT: SHOULD THAT BE A CAPITAL CRIME?

I'm a person. The Constitution protects me. There are no protections for fetuses as persons in the Constitution.

The Constitution doesn't protect you.

The Constitution restricts the power of government as a means to defend the principles that provide for you to exercise your God given rights.

Any right you have to your life, must be rightful for all human life... or no such right can exist.

IF you claim a right to your innocent life, then you must claim a right for all of innocent human life.

And where you reject that all are endowed by their creator with a right to their life, you forfeit any right to your own.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The fact of the matter was that I was born at 24 weeks

Why should anyone believe you now?

Why? I was born wasn't I? That part isn't in dispute.

I have my birth certificate sitting on my lap right now. Says here I was born at 10:20 PM on a Friday night. I can go into further details if you would like, the doctor who birthed me, the dates of birth of my mother and father as listed, where they lived at the time of my birth...

Need I say more?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You're gutless.

Again, answering only yes or no,

should abortion be made the crime of murder?

ROFLMNAO!

So, you can't answer the question?

Let's try again... and understand I am only restating the argument because it proves the idiocy of ROE and your would-be point, subsequent to such; which is to say for the pure sadistic entertainment of watching you squirm.

Should abortion be a capital crime? You're the guy who said that Nature, or God, defined what murder is.

Is abortion murder? Should our laws reflect that?

To which I responded through the following query:

If I deem you an inconvenience and as a result, using my sufficient power over you, send a 120 grain projectile into your brain... at 900fps, tearing away most of your brain and skull... instantly rendering your body into lifelessness. ...

Should THAT be considered a capital crime?

So... the standing point is: YOUR VIOLENT DEATH AS A RESULT OF YOUR BEING DEEMED INCONVENIENT: SHOULD THAT BE A CAPITAL CRIME?

Apparently you're the only poster on this forum who thinks women should get the death penalty for using the morning after pill.

OH! So Murder is a function of popularity?

LOL! That is ADORABLE!

You truly 'feel' that because I am "alone" on a given issue, that this in ANY WAY could somehow relate to the validity of my position.

(Reader, THAT is a confession for the ages right there. In so many words the Left has just admitted that RIGHT AND WRONG are... WAIT FOR IT!...


RELATIVE!​

Which means that what we're working with here, with regard to the Ideological Left, is RELATIVISM.

Perhaps you've previously seen this... but its worth noting again:

Relativism is the doctrine which holds that knowledge, truth, and morality exist only in relation to one's cultural, societal, historical and personal context, and, as such can never be the result of soundly reasoned absolutes.

It is through this, perversion of reason, wherein relativism axiomatically rejects the objectivity that is essential to truth.

And with truth being essential to trust and, both of those being critical to the establishment of a soundly reasoned morality, and because a soundly reasoned morality is essential to Justice... it becomes clear to reasonable people, that Relativism can never serve justice.

The Ideological Left rests ENTIRELY upon Relativism... it is steeped in such and exudes nothing BUT... .

And that is why they're so often accused of having a 'double standard'... and given that relativism is not a sustainable species of reason, such is the reason that wherever the Ideological Left IS... "LAW" becomes a moving target... constantly adjusting to whimsy of Leftist NEED.

And that is why whatever culture succumbs to the infection of such, all sense of Justice evaporates and the culture is either conquered by a competing culture or it simply decays and crumbles into civil war. ​

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The fact of the matter was that I was born at 24 weeks

Why should anyone believe you now?

Why? I was born wasn't I? That part isn't in dispute.

I have my birth certificate sitting on my lap right now. Says here I was born at 10:20 PM on a Friday night. I can go into further details if you would like, the doctor who birthed me, the dates of birth of my mother and father as listed, where they lived at the time of my birth...

Need I say more?

Nope... I'd say that you've pretty well eviscerated another facet of the Left's double-speak, anti-American crapola.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And then the wailing and moaning cease. Pretty much tells you what you need to know.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And then the wailing and moaning cease. Pretty much tells you what you need to know.

It really does...

Excellent work!

 

[Clementine]

What's not laughable is the contempt you and most others on the right have for individual liberty, how you seek to expand the size and authority of government at the expense of that individual liberty, and how most conservatives are comfortable with the notion of government deciding when life begins, instead of the individual in accordance with his own good conscience.

Geez, you are clueless. I have said before that I don't care who gets an abortion. It's legal and always will be, numbskull.

My issue has always been that it needs to be treated like the invasive medical procedure that it is. The left bitches about too many tests being done prior to an abortion. The abortion clinics don't get inspected enough and too often poor conditions were found. The left has been pushing for non-physicians to be allowed to perform abortions. That is horrible news for women going there. The risk is just not worth it and it is just not acceptable.

I also think it's sad that so many women have had many abortions and still don't practice prevention. Birth control is dirt cheap. They have always had Medicaid and now Obamacare, so no fucking excuses anymore. Morning after pills are available in pharmacies. I think they are on the shelf now. Walmart sells birth control pills starting at $4.00 a month. I'm sure they take EBT cards there.

Yet, we still have women waiting months to decide. It is bullshit that late term abortions save the mother's life when abortion the baby puts the mother at more risk. During late terms, the baby is partially born, then a sharp instrument is inserted into the baby's skull to kill it, then it is fully delivered. If a woman's life was at stake, doing a C-section would be in order if they feared an induced delivery would take too long. Both a better option IF the real reason is the mother's life.

I just hate the bullshit put out by the left. If anyone is unable to avoid unwanted pregnancy, they haven't tried real hard. Even if they find themselves pregnant and don't want it, no excuse is acceptable for waiting 5 or 6 months.

 

[sealybobo]

It doesn't matter if one considers a fetus a clump of cells or a viable human infant as of yet to be birthed.

How do you rationally or ethically enforce laws the subjugate a woman's right to control her body? Abortion will happen either legally and as safely as medical practices can make it, or illegally and unsafely. Do you suggest that we strap women into beds in facilities if they maybe harbor thoughts of abortion? Put women in jail for aborting or attempting to abort? Jailing abortion doctors? It ain't gonna happen. A fertus doesn't have any legal rights and voters even in the most conservative states haven't supported measures to extend rights to the unborn.

The SCOTUS ruled on this issue 41 years ago. The fight is over. Don't like abortion? Don't get one.

Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

That ignores the fact that Roe allows for controls to limit abortion in later stages.

Clearly it is not always the mothers choice even if the child has not been born yet. The short answer to your question about the things we can do is yes.

Abortion law is actually rather good these days - late term abortions are largely illegal (and that should be made universal IMHO) yet the woman has the option early in her term.

That's not at issue.

No one contests the authority of the state to limit access at later stages; the issue concerns prohibiting the practice altogether.

Our secular society decided if caught early enough a woman can choose to abort a pregnancy. If they can force you to have a baby how free are you? I'd hate to be forced to carry a baby and birth it if what I really wanted was an abortion.

And how many poor single women who have 5 kids and get pregnant again? You know who's glad their mom didn't take my advice? The single mom of 5 who just won the mega lotto. I'm so happy for her 5 kids.

They didn't force you to open your legs when they should have remained closed. You had a choice to make...and you fucked it up.

Yet another one who thinks we only have abortion because women are sluts.

Even if that's the reason. Do you really want to force a slut to have a kid that she really doesn't want to have? I know all the reasons she should have the kid. So does she. Yet she still chooses to have the abortion.

 

[sealybobo]

We say that life isnt so precious that a woman can't terminate it in its first stage.

We say life is precious at any stage of development. If it becomes absolutely necessary, fine. But why would you?

Many religious women who find themselves pregnant at the wrong time deal with the rational and ethics of it.

Actually, it isn't just religious women. Let me tell you a story (based on actual events):

My grandmother worked at the University of Georgia for 34 years. In that time she got to know the thousands of students who walked through the hallway outside of her office each semester. Some of them were college age women who had recently had an abortion. They personally told her that it would take them years to get over the fact they had to kill their child. Some of them believed they hadn't considered all of the circumstances before doing so. It left them traumatized and mentally scarred.

I guess unless you're in the situation they are in you'll never know.

Actually, I was almost never born. Through the (fortunate) malfeasance of my mother, she lost her birth control pills. I tell you what, I was nearly a victim of abortion. So don't tell me I won't ever know, I was nearly taken by it. Now, imagine those children who didn't have those chain of events occur to them.

There are many women who got abortions and were glad it was available. Sure there's some guilt sadness and wondering what could have been. But it wasn't the right time for them. Your stories don't matter to them.

I often think of how lucky we are to be here. If you have 2 siblings then you are the only three to make it out of the thousands of times your parents did it. I don't feel any sadder about a seed in the first trimester than I do the brothers and sisters that were never born because the sperm didn't crack the egg.

 

[sealybobo]

What's not laughable is the contempt you and most others on the right have for individual liberty, how you seek to expand the size and authority of government at the expense of that individual liberty, and how most conservatives are comfortable with the notion of government deciding when life begins, instead of the individual in accordance with his own good conscience.

Geez, you are clueless. I have said before that I don't care who gets an abortion. It's legal and always will be, numbskull.

My issue has always been that it needs to be treated like the invasive medical procedure that it is. The left bitches about too many tests being done prior to an abortion. The abortion clinics don't get inspected enough and too often poor conditions were found. The left has been pushing for non-physicians to be allowed to perform abortions. That is horrible news for women going there. The risk is just not worth it and it is just not acceptable.

I also think it's sad that so many women have had many abortions and still don't practice prevention. Birth control is dirt cheap. They have always had Medicaid and now Obamacare, so no fucking excuses anymore. Morning after pills are available in pharmacies. I think they are on the shelf now. Walmart sells birth control pills starting at $4.00 a month. I'm sure they take EBT cards there.

Yet, we still have women waiting months to decide. It is bullshit that late term abortions save the mother's life when abortion the baby puts the mother at more risk. During late terms, the baby is partially born, then a sharp instrument is inserted into the baby's skull to kill it, then it is fully delivered. If a woman's life was at stake, doing a C-section would be in order if they feared an induced delivery would take too long. Both a better option IF the real reason is the mother's life.

I just hate the bullshit put out by the left. If anyone is unable to avoid unwanted pregnancy, they haven't tried real hard. Even if they find themselves pregnant and don't want it, no excuse is acceptable for waiting 5 or 6 months.

Who's side are the catholic run hospitals on? the left or right? Because they didn't want to cover contraception remember?

I say healthcare should cover IUD"s. Over 10 years condoms and pills are very ineffective at preventing pregnancies. Iud's however are very effective.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Somehow, I hear a lot of men, (including myself) speaking about issues that we will never encounter. So, to the liberal guys: just how can you ever know the feelings of a woman who has to or wants to have an abortion? Come now, don't be shy.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I still think of my three miscarried brothers. Wonder what they would have been like had they survived. Wonder how we would get along now, and if they could have helped me prevent us from losing my living one. This understanding that they were living human beings and what I missed out with them is part of what informs my pro-life beliefs. Every pro-choicer I've explained this to has sneered in contempt and mocked this. I don't expect the crowd here to be any different. I only say it at all to explain my reasoning. OP, you can't reason these people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. You can't make them accept something that is going to bring them scorn from their ideological comrades. They're not going to accept something like that. They're going to take the position that they do because it wins them acceptance and admiration from their peers. This thread is utterly pointless.