Justice Roberts second guesses policy making decision on census, violates separation of powers

[MAGAman]

The purpose of the census is to count the people. It is not to allocate funds, but at least you backhandedly acknowledge that this is about blue greed.

Funds are allocated based on population.

 

[danielpalos]

Our Constitution is express, not implied by right wing fantasy in any way. This should not be a problem.

 

[johnwk]

Obama's Census Bureau Asked About Citizenship in Yearly Survey | NTK Network

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You are absolutely correct, e.g., when asking "Person 1" questions in "THE AMERICAN COMMUNITY SURVEY" of 2015, number 8 turns out to be "Is this person a citizen of the United States"

JWK


The Democrat Leadership is correct! The border crisis has been manufactured. It has been manufactured by the Democrat Leadership in Congress refusing to protect our borders against an ongoing invasion.

 

[occupied]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

 

[Uncensored2008]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

Except that legislative power had nothing to do with anything here.

Oh, but it does. Congress delegated almost unlimited power to Executive Office with regard to the census. Additionally, this is a policy making decision, and our courts are not there to second guess policy making decisions.

JWK

Purposely trying to make the census inaccurate is NOT just a policy making decision. Well, it is, but it is illegal as hell. The Census is mandated every ten years.

I'm not sure why there is such a big fuss over asking the question this year. Our illegal population is actually shrinking they say and the question doesn't ask if you are here illegally. Is this more shrieking by the Never Trumpers?

Shrinking?

Ohh, lie some more. Obamugabe gets hard when you lie....

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S.
BY JENS MANUEL KROGSTAD, JEFFREY S. PASSEL AND D’VERA COHN


The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the United States has dropped to the level it was in 2004, and Mexicans are no longer a majority of this population. This decline is due mainly to a large drop in the number of new unauthorized immigrants, especially Mexicans, coming into the country. The origin countries of unauthorized immigrants also shifted during that time, with the number from Mexico declining and the number rising from Central America and Asia, according to the latest Pew Research Center estimates.
5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S.

Complete bullshit.

{
The big border headline this week was that U.S. authorities arrested or turned away more than 144,000 people at the southwest border in May, including more than 100,000 family units and children, far exceeding previous monthly totals this year and putting us on pace for illegal immigration levels not seen in 13 years. The U.S. Border Patrol apprehended on average 4,200 people a day last month and now has more than 19,000 people in custody.

These numbers tell us the migrant crisis is deepening, despite efforts by the Trump administration and the Mexican government to contain it. But beyond the numbers is something yet more disturbing, a reality not often reflected in media coverage of the crisis: the border itself is spinning out of control.}


As Illegal Immigration Skyrockets, The Border Crisis Spins Out Of Control

 

[OKTexas]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I dont get it. Why would you want non citizens to fill out our census. I live in a tourist area with numerous Europeans visiting, why would we want tourist, visitors, or criminal occupiers filling out our census?

Because representation is predicated on population regardless whether a resident is a citizen or not.

For example, lawful permanent resident aliens (‘green card’ holders) have jobs, pay taxes, and use public resources such as schools, roads, and recreation areas where lawmakers need an accurate census to determine the appropriate allocation of funding to ensure those resources remain available.

 

[jc456]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

Except that legislative power had nothing to do with anything here.

It was once a question , sure it was

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Republicans fucked themselves on this by using any excuse to justify the question and acting as if the idea of a deliberate under-count of the census never occurred to them. No one likes to be bullshitted to their face.

Once the court said the question was legal, that should have been the end of it. You don't have to give a justification to ask a perfectly legal question on the census.

.

The fact is, the Court is not "supporting this Constitution" when it subjugates the very intentions and beliefs under which our Constitution, and laws made in pursuance thereof, have been adopted.

And in the case of Justice Roberts, it is not within his job to second guess the wisdom or merits of asking, on our census form, "Is this person a citizen of the United States". His only job is to confirm if putting the question on the census form is within the powers assigned to our federal government.

JWK

The Democrat Leadership is correct! The border crisis has been manufactured. It has been manufactured by the Democrat Leadership in Congress refusing to protect our borders against an ongoing invasion.

At least you’re consistent at being wrong.

Again, it is well with the purview of the courts to determine if policies implemented by the executive are valid and Constitutional – presidents’ executive orders have long been subject to judicial review.

And the immigration ‘crisis’ is a partisan contrivance of the right, yet another example of conservatives attempting to divide the American people over a non-issue, yet another example of the right’s fear, bigotry, and hate.

 

[jc456]

Obama's Census Bureau Asked About Citizenship in Yearly Survey | NTK Network

.

You are absolutely correct, e.g., when asking "Person 1" questions in "THE AMERICAN COMMUNITY SURVEY" of 2015, number 8 turns out to be "Is this person a citizen of the United States"

JWK


The Democrat Leadership is correct! The border crisis has been manufactured. It has been manufactured by the Democrat Leadership in Congress refusing to protect our borders against an ongoing invasion.

Fk n A

 

[occupied]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

You keep saying that when the court says otherwise. They are the final argument. I know it can suck sometimes but it's a fact. Just because you finally have your long hoped for conservative court it does not mean that conservatives are just going to win everything no matter how unconstitutional it is.

 

[OKTexas]

I dont get it. Why would you want non citizens to fill out our census. I live in a tourist area with numerous Europeans visiting, why would we want tourist, visitors, or criminal occupiers filling out our census?

Because representation is predicated on population regardless whether a resident is a citizen or not.

For example, lawful permanent resident aliens (‘green card’ holders) have jobs, pay taxes, and use public resources such as schools, roads, and recreation areas where lawmakers need an accurate census to determine the appropriate allocation of funding to ensure those resources remain available.

Liar, read Section 2 of the 14th Amendment.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

You keep saying that when the court says otherwise. They are the final argument. I know it can suck sometimes but it's a fact. Just because you finally have your long hoped for conservative court it does not mean that conservatives are just going to win everything no matter how unconstitutional it is.

Where did they say it was unconstitutional? LINK??????

.

 

[occupied]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

You keep saying that when the court says otherwise. They are the final argument. I know it can suck sometimes but it's a fact. Just because you finally have your long hoped for conservative court it does not mean that conservatives are just going to win everything no matter how unconstitutional it is.

Where did they say it was unconstitutional? LINK??????

.

Well in this case they said quit bullshitting us. This will not be the last one conservatives lose in their never-ending quest to push the boundaries of executive power for republican presidents and curtail executive power for democratic presidents.

 

[johnwk]

,
Let us not forget that In 2015 when Obama asked in the American Community Survey, “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”, one of the reasons he gave for asking the question is, it is “used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and fire stations are needed.” So, according to Obama, it’s important to ask “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” for the above stated reasons.

JWK

The Democrat Leadership is correct! The border crisis has been manufactured. It has been manufactured by the Democrat Leadership in Congress refusing to protect our borders against an ongoing invasion.

 

[OKTexas]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

You keep saying that when the court says otherwise. They are the final argument. I know it can suck sometimes but it's a fact. Just because you finally have your long hoped for conservative court it does not mean that conservatives are just going to win everything no matter how unconstitutional it is.

Where did they say it was unconstitutional? LINK??????

.

Well in this case they said quit bullshitting us but this will not be the last one conservatives lose in their never-ending quest to push the boundaries of executive power for republican presidents and curtail executive power for democratic presidents.

Your dear leader asked the same question every year of his presidency on the ACS. We never heard a peep about that, the courts didn't intervene, why the crocodile tears now? Just admit it commie, you're nothing but a partisan hypocrite.

Are you saying the 14th Amendment is unconstitutional? If not why aren't you demanding it be adhered to?

.

.

 

[occupied]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

You keep saying that when the court says otherwise. They are the final argument. I know it can suck sometimes but it's a fact. Just because you finally have your long hoped for conservative court it does not mean that conservatives are just going to win everything no matter how unconstitutional it is.

Where did they say it was unconstitutional? LINK??????

.

Well in this case they said quit bullshitting us but this will not be the last one conservatives lose in their never-ending quest to push the boundaries of executive power for republican presidents and curtail executive power for democratic presidents.

Your dear leader asked the same question every year of his presidency on the ACS. We never heard a peep about that, the courts didn't intervene, why the crocodile tears now? Just admit it commie, you're nothing but a partisan hypocrite.

Are you saying the 14th Amendment is unconstitutional? If not why aren't you demanding it be adhered to?

.

.

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

 

[OKTexas]

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

You keep saying that when the court says otherwise. They are the final argument. I know it can suck sometimes but it's a fact. Just because you finally have your long hoped for conservative court it does not mean that conservatives are just going to win everything no matter how unconstitutional it is.

Where did they say it was unconstitutional? LINK??????

.

Well in this case they said quit bullshitting us but this will not be the last one conservatives lose in their never-ending quest to push the boundaries of executive power for republican presidents and curtail executive power for democratic presidents.

Your dear leader asked the same question every year of his presidency on the ACS. We never heard a peep about that, the courts didn't intervene, why the crocodile tears now? Just admit it commie, you're nothing but a partisan hypocrite.

Are you saying the 14th Amendment is unconstitutional? If not why aren't you demanding it be adhered to?

.

.

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

Then why do you continue ignore the 14th Amendment? People not eligible to vote for electors are not to be counted for representation and the ACS proves the question is legal. You'd think the supremes would know what the Constitution says about counts for representation. The fact is you commies can care less what is constitutional when it doesn't fit your agenda and propaganda.

.

 

[Dekster]

The purpose of the census is to count the people. It is not to allocate funds, but at least you backhandedly acknowledge that this is about blue greed.

Funds are allocated based on population.

And funds have citizenship requirements attached to many of them which takes us back to blue greed. Sanctuary cities want you to support their illegals, not them.

 

[Flopper]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

In regard to this assumption of power Justice Stone reminds us that:

”The power of courts to declare a statute unconstitutional is subject to two guiding principles of decision which ought never to be absent from judicial consciousness. One is that courts are concerned only with the power to enact statutes, not with their wisdom. The other is that while unconstitutional exercise of power by the executive and legislative branches of the government is subject to judicial restraint, the only check upon our own exercise of power is our own sense of self-restraint. For the removal of unwise laws from the statute books appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)


Additionally, the court in Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997) pointed out:


”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.”

And, in ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003) the court unmistakably confirmed:

…..we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.



And finally, Justice Black, quite eloquently addressed the issue as follows:

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968


The bottom line is, Justice Obamacare-Roberts has repeatedly violate the most fundamental cannons and principles of our constitutionally limited system of government and the fundamental rules of constitutional construction by interfering with a legitimate question being replaced on our census form . . . “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”

JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [ourMSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United States.

Regarding the census question about citizenship, the Supreme Court did not examine the constitutionality of the issue. This is probably because the case before them was a petition seeking relief from a ruling by the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals which enjoined the Secretary of Commerce from reinstating a question about citizenship to the 2020 decennial census on the ground that the Secretary’s decision violated the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), 5 U.S.C. 701 et seq. The court refused to do so based on the lack of a relevant argument by petitioner.

Reading Robert's "Opinion of the Court" and the fact that petitioner's legal team could not come up suitable argument by the Friday deadline, the combined case will go back to a lower court and the court order enjoining the Secretary remains.
\
As it stand now, the Commerce Dept. can not create the census with the citizenship question without violating the court order from the 2nd Court of Appeals. Therefore the Census bureau has begun printing the census without the question. Trump has talked about an executive order and printing an addendum with the question. The problem with this tactic is the 2nd court of appeals will enjoying the president's executive order. The JD will take that to court but it won't be heard until after Oct 1 when the Supreme Court goes into session.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/18/18-966/81777/20190125163140500_2019-01-25 Commerce CBJ petn.pdf