Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[HereWeGoAgain]

Slight tangent: Should the shooter be allowed to keep his CWP even if cleared in this incident?

I think the white guy was at minimum guilty of public disorderly conduct which could be grounds for taking his CWP if its routine behavior.

If he's not charged with a crime I dont see how they can take away his CCL.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Yes, he could have. But you're talking about the victim, not the shooter, who initiated "the tension."

The odds of any one loop ending in a death was probably low. But he kept repeating the scenario.

If the odds of a shooting in one case is 20% and you repeat that scenario 10 times, the odds of a shooting becomes 90%

Thats the thing though.
The guy was known to be a parking lot nazi even the guy in the interview said it.
The guy that was shot had to know this since he was a daily customer.
And is there any liability for the store owner? He said the guy hung out there everyday. If he was a problem why didnt he call the cops and have him removed?

That's a big stretch that the guy who was shot had to know that. You have no basis to say that.

All I can say is that if I was armed and I initiated aggression like the shooter did, then no one I grew up with would say I did the right thing. And I think the'd be right.

That someone can stage a murder and those of you who are defending it are defending it is inexplicable to me. He created a situation where he introduced aggression into the situation and kept repeating it while armed. That was a guaranteed death, which is not what the second amendment is about

If the guy was a problem why didnt the owner have him removed from the premises a long time ago?
That doesnt ad up.

Thats beside the point. You dont attack someone over a verbal confrontation.

As someone who's owned five businesses, it's not simple to get the police to remove someone from your property. And even if they do, they come right back. Furthermore, the person can get angry at you. It's a bad situation.

And the store owner said the guy kept doing that and he wasn't right. That wouldn't scare you to call the cops on someone aggressive that the cops will just rile off further?

Thats a reasonable point but if the guy was chasing off customers I'm sure he would have called the cops.

we dont know if the owner had in the past

but it seems pretty clear that no legal acrion was taken against the guy to keep him off the property

 

[JoeMoma]

Yes, he could have. But you're talking about the victim, not the shooter, who initiated "the tension."

The odds of any one loop ending in a death was probably low. But he kept repeating the scenario.

If the odds of a shooting in one case is 20% and you repeat that scenario 10 times, the odds of a shooting becomes 90%

Thats the thing though.
The guy was known to be a parking lot nazi even the guy in the interview said it.
The guy that was shot had to know this since he was a daily customer.
And is there any liability for the store owner? He said the guy hung out there everyday. If he was a problem why didnt he call the cops and have him removed?

That's a big stretch that the guy who was shot had to know that. You have no basis to say that.

All I can say is that if I was armed and I initiated aggression like the shooter did, then no one I grew up with would say I did the right thing. And I think the'd be right.

That someone can stage a murder and those of you who are defending it are defending it is inexplicable to me. He created a situation where he introduced aggression into the situation and kept repeating it while armed. That was a guaranteed death, which is not what the second amendment is about

If the guy was a problem why didnt the owner have him removed from the premises a long time ago?
That doesnt ad up.

Thats beside the point. You dont attack someone over a verbal confrontation.

As someone who's owned five businesses, it's not simple to get the police to remove someone from your property. And even if they do, they come right back. Furthermore, the person can get angry at you. It's a bad situation.

And the store owner said the guy kept doing that and he wasn't right. That wouldn't scare you to call the cops on someone aggressive that the cops will just rile off further?

Thats a reasonable point but if the guy was chasing off customers I'm sure he would have called the cops.

It depends on the frequency and how long the guy hangs out at the store. If it happens about once a month and the guy is gone in five minutes or less.... I might not bother. On hindsight, it is probably good to get the police to file a report on the incidents that led up to this one....but that's hindsight.

 

[JoeMoma]

Slight tangent: Should the shooter be allowed to keep his CWP even if cleared in this incident?

I think the white guy was at minimum guilty of public disorderly conduct which could be grounds for taking his CWP if its routine behavior.

If he's not charged with a crime I dont see how they can take away his CCL.

Public disorderly conduct.....he can be charged with that.

 

[Tom Horn]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

No, it's dependent on what the other guy might do next...the black guy didn't turn and walk away after he flattened the smaller white guy....he continued menacing him...justified shooting.

 

[PredFan]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Agreed. This incident did not warrant using a firearm. This is murder.

 

[PredFan]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

 

[PredFan]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How so? He didn't break any law.

Yeah he did. He killed someone who was not a threat.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Thats the thing though.
The guy was known to be a parking lot nazi even the guy in the interview said it.
The guy that was shot had to know this since he was a daily customer.
And is there any liability for the store owner? He said the guy hung out there everyday. If he was a problem why didnt he call the cops and have him removed?

That's a big stretch that the guy who was shot had to know that. You have no basis to say that.

All I can say is that if I was armed and I initiated aggression like the shooter did, then no one I grew up with would say I did the right thing. And I think the'd be right.

That someone can stage a murder and those of you who are defending it are defending it is inexplicable to me. He created a situation where he introduced aggression into the situation and kept repeating it while armed. That was a guaranteed death, which is not what the second amendment is about

If the guy was a problem why didnt the owner have him removed from the premises a long time ago?
That doesnt ad up.

Thats beside the point. You dont attack someone over a verbal confrontation.

As someone who's owned five businesses, it's not simple to get the police to remove someone from your property. And even if they do, they come right back. Furthermore, the person can get angry at you. It's a bad situation.

And the store owner said the guy kept doing that and he wasn't right. That wouldn't scare you to call the cops on someone aggressive that the cops will just rile off further?

Thats a reasonable point but if the guy was chasing off customers I'm sure he would have called the cops.

we dont know if the owner had in the past

but it seems pretty clear that no legal acrion was taken against the guy to keep him off the property

Yep.
So the the store owner obviously wasnt all that concerned about the guy even though he claimed the guy was a problem.

 

[PredFan]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

I honestly do not know, as the information in a news article surely leaves out important details that will be revealed during a trial.

The only important detail is that the attacker backed away.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Slight tangent: Should the shooter be allowed to keep his CWP even if cleared in this incident?

I think the white guy was at minimum guilty of public disorderly conduct which could be grounds for taking his CWP if its routine behavior.

If he's not charged with a crime I dont see how they can take away his CCL.

Public disorderly conduct.....he can be charged with that.

Wouldnt someone have to actually file charges?
Seems like doing it after the fact wouldnt fly.

 

[miketx]

I probably should not have commented here much. We don't have all the facts. Maybe he did over react.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

 

[PredFan]

I guarantee you there will be a trial and the guy will be very lucky to not spend a long time in jail.

 

[PredFan]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

 

[JoeMoma]

Slight tangent: Should the shooter be allowed to keep his CWP even if cleared in this incident?

I think the white guy was at minimum guilty of public disorderly conduct which could be grounds for taking his CWP if its routine behavior.

If he's not charged with a crime I dont see how they can take away his CCL.

Public disorderly conduct.....he can be charged with that.

Wouldnt someone have to actually file charges?
Seems like doing it after the fact wouldnt fly.

Charges are not filed "before the fact". This is a very recent event. Of course charges can still be filed!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I guarantee you there will be a trial and the guy will be very lucky to not spend a long time in jail.

It'l be interesting to see if they do.
The video will either damn him or exonerate him.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

I'd have to dig up the link but thats what was said.

 

[PredFan]

I know I wouldn’t have shot him. Of course I wouldn’t have parked in a handicap spot nor, if I was carrying, would I have confronted someone who did. The easiest way to ruin your life is to carry a gun and walk around talking smack.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested