Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[rightwinger]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Why do you think I said then you have this one?

 

[PredFan]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

Ok well, I stand corrected. I still wouldn’t have shot him. Likely from the video, I wouldn’t have even drawn on him.

 

[RandomPoster]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

After the gunshot victim pushed the shooter down, he actually stepped back a few feet away from him before he drew the gun and stood waiting to see what his reaction would be. He did not jump on him and start hitting him or kick while he was down. He was not moving towards him at the time he drew the pistol, simply standing his own ground and more or less saying what are you going to do about it. I do not believe the shooter was in fear for his life.

 

[rightwinger]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

Ok well, I stand corrected. I still wouldn’t have shot him. Likely from the video, I wouldn’t have even drawn on him.

Post #198.

I would have only to stop the attack.
Then I would have gotten the plate number and called the cops.

"He shoved the old man to the ground violently.
Thats about as in your face as you can get.
Tough case...personally I wouldnt have shot the dude just to avoid the potential legal ramifications being in Florida or not.
But then I wouldnt have attacked an old man either."

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

 

[rightwinger]

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Why do you think I said then you have this one?

Seems the Sheriff has decided not to charge him based on his interpretation of Stand your Ground

The State Attorney May interpret differently and respond to public pressure

 

[PredFan]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

I maintain that if I was on a jury at his trial I would have to vote guilty of murder or whatever the charge was. The video seems to clearly show no threat.

As a CCW holder I am prepared to use deadly force when warranted. The attacker was unarmed and clearly not continuing the attack. If I judged wrong in that situation, the worse that could happen to me would to get kicked or punched again. Then I would have been justified. The fact that the video clearly shows him back off after being drawn on, seems to be contrary to Stand Your Ground as I know it to be.

But, I’m not an attorney, I just play one in my mind.

 

[rightwinger]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Why do you think I said then you have this one?

Seems the Sheriff has decided not to charge him based on his interpretation of Stand your Ground

The State Attorney May interpret differently and respond to public pressure

While the DA may pursue charges they have to prove the guy wasnt in fear for his life.
Pretty tough case to make.

 

[PredFan]

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Why do you think I said then you have this one?

Seems the Sheriff has decided not to charge him based on his interpretation of Stand your Ground

The State Attorney May interpret differently and respond to public pressure

Public opinion SHOULD never be a factor in law.

“Should” I said.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

Many a people have died from head trauma from a hard fall.
So I'd guess this could be considered a serious assault case with the intent to cause serious bodily injury.

 

[rightwinger]

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Why do you think I said then you have this one?

Seems the Sheriff has decided not to charge him based on his interpretation of Stand your Ground

The State Attorney May interpret differently and respond to public pressure

While the DA may pursue charges they have to prove the guy wasnt in fear for his life.
Pretty tough case to make.

If that is the case, anyone in a fight can pull a gun and fire because he fears for his life

Hard to justify a shove makes you fear for your life

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Why do you think I said then you have this one?

Seems the Sheriff has decided not to charge him based on his interpretation of Stand your Ground

The State Attorney May interpret differently and respond to public pressure

While the DA may pursue charges they have to prove the guy wasnt in fear for his life.
Pretty tough case to make.

If that is the case, anyone in a fight can pull a gun and fire because he fears for his life

Hard to justify a shove makes you fear for your life

This wasnt a minor push.
Had the guy turned to run and got shot it'd be over for the shooter.

 

[rightwinger]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

Many a people have died from head trauma from a hard fall.
So I'd guess this could be considered a serious assault case with the intent to cause serious bodily injury.

Agree

It was definitely an assault. The assailant would claim he was protecting his girlfriend and pushed the man away instead of punching him

I don’t see where it crosses the threshold for deadly force

 

[2aguy]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

It is not a stand your ground case.....when you are on the ground, you can't retreat. which takes away the stand your ground issue....just like in the Martin shooting.

As to wether he deserved to shoot the guy..... do you know what the intent of the man standing up was? Do you know what it looked like to the man on the ground? When you are in a self defense situation, your vision constricts, your sense of time goes haywire...all because of an adrenaline dump....as the guy backed up, the guy on the ground could have believed the other guy was reaching for his own weapon...

this is why you don't push people to the ground.......

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

Many a people have died from head trauma from a hard fall.
So I'd guess this could be considered a serious assault case with the intent to cause serious bodily injury.

Agree

It was definitely an assault. The assailant would claim he was protecting his girlfriend and pushed the man away instead of punching him

I don’t see where it crosses the threshold for deadly force

The only problem with that is she was exiting the vehicle when her boyfriend was approaching showing she wasnt afraid.
Most people would lock their doors.

 

[2aguy]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Sorry.... the guy who pushed the guy initiated the incident..... there is no reason to push someone like that and he escalated the encounter..... at that point, you don't know what the guy on the ground believed was happening...... until you are on the ground, possibly injured or hitting your head.....you can't tell what really was going on.

 

[2aguy]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

Many a people have died from head trauma from a hard fall.
So I'd guess this could be considered a serious assault case with the intent to cause serious bodily injury.

The former Mayor Daley in Chicago has a nephew. The nephew got into an argument with a guy at a bar, punched the guy once.... the guy fell, hit his head on the curb and went into a comma, dying, never waking up..... this was a violent assault......