Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[2aguy]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

Many a people have died from head trauma from a hard fall.
So I'd guess this could be considered a serious assault case with the intent to cause serious bodily injury.

Agree

It was definitely an assault. The assailant would claim he was protecting his girlfriend and pushed the man away instead of punching him

I don’t see where it crosses the threshold for deadly force

You weren't on the ground.......

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Sorry.... the guy who pushed the guy initiated the incident..... there is no reason to push someone like that and he escalated the encounter..... at that point, you don't know what the guy on the ground believed was happening...... until you are on the ground, possibly injured or hitting your head.....you can't tell what really was going on.

I think he'll get off but I dont believe the guy needed to shoot him.

 

[2aguy]

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

Guilty of at least 2nd Degree murder.

I am a CCW holder in Florida and I know the law. It will take some masterful lawyering, on the part of his defense attorney to keep him from heavy punishment.

Pretty sure they already said no charges will be filed.

“Pretty sure”?

A Florida man fatally shot another over a parking space — and it was legal. Here’s why.

Gunman in parking space shooting not charged because of 'Stand Your Ground' law

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter

Then you have this one....
Stand Your Ground: Shooter in parking space dispute will not be arrested

From your link...

This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."

Technically, it isn't a stand your ground case.... he was on the ground and had no option to retreat. Stand your Ground only comes in when you are able to retreat, but are not required to do so....

 

[2aguy]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

How do you know wether more aggression was coming or not? Ever been kicked in the head when you are on the ground?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

Many a people have died from head trauma from a hard fall.
So I'd guess this could be considered a serious assault case with the intent to cause serious bodily injury.

The former Mayor Daley in Chicago has a nephew. The nephew got into an argument with a guy at a bar, punched the guy once.... the guy fell, hit his head on the curb and went into a comma, dying, never waking up..... this was a violent assault......

I agree.
It's unfortunate the guy died but it looks like by law the guy was within his rights to shoot.
Personally I wouldnt have.

 

[rightwinger]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

It is not a stand your ground case.....when you are on the ground, you can't retreat. which takes away the stand your ground issue....just like in the Martin shooting.

As to wether he deserved to shoot the guy..... do you know what the intent of the man standing up was? Do you know what it looked like to the man on the ground? When you are in a self defense situation, your vision constricts, your sense of time goes haywire...all because of an adrenaline dump....as the guy backed up, the guy on the ground could have believed the other guy was reaching for his own weapon...

this is why you don't push people to the ground.......

This is why concealed carry can get out of hand

 

[2aguy]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Sorry.... the guy who pushed the guy initiated the incident..... there is no reason to push someone like that and he escalated the encounter..... at that point, you don't know what the guy on the ground believed was happening...... until you are on the ground, possibly injured or hitting your head.....you can't tell what really was going on.

I think he'll get off but I dont believe the guy needed to shoot him.

Maybe not, but he didn't create the situation..... he was the one violently attacked.

 

[2aguy]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

It is not a stand your ground case.....when you are on the ground, you can't retreat. which takes away the stand your ground issue....just like in the Martin shooting.

As to wether he deserved to shoot the guy..... do you know what the intent of the man standing up was? Do you know what it looked like to the man on the ground? When you are in a self defense situation, your vision constricts, your sense of time goes haywire...all because of an adrenaline dump....as the guy backed up, the guy on the ground could have believed the other guy was reaching for his own weapon...

this is why you don't push people to the ground.......

This isn’t why concealed carry can get out of hand

And yet the concealed carrier didn't start the attack, and was defending himself. And since these are extremely rare, where there is this question.....considering there are 17 million people carrying guns for self defense.....there isn't a problem.

 

[EGR one]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

You have to use the reasonable man standard to determine whether the fear was sufficient to justify the use of deadly force. Personally, I do not think that a reasonable man would have shot his attacker.

 

[2aguy]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

You have to use the reasonable man standard to determine whether the fear was sufficient to justify the use of deadly force. Personally, I do not think that a reasonable man would have shot his attacker.

I disagree..... you are simply arguing with a woman and some guy comes out and violently attacks you.... is there a kick coming next, how about a weapon about to come out..... you weren't the guy on the ground, you didn't see the expression on the face of the attacker or his body language..... fear of death or bodily harm is a lot different after you have been violently attacked and adrenaline hits your system.

 

[2aguy]

There needs to be a "maybe" answer.

 

[rightwinger]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

How do you know wether more aggression was coming or not? Ever been kicked in the head when you are on the ground?

How?
Because he was unarmed, because he was five feet away and backing away when he saw a gun, because he shoved the guy away from his girlfriend instead of punching him

Having a gun means might makes right
It SHOULD mean you have to show responsible judgement or pay the consequences

 

[2aguy]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Watching the video, after the push the guy is still advancing on the victim....only in the split second as the gun comes out does he back away..... and by then the adrenaline has obscured the vision of the victim and collapsed time, so he doesn't have the ability to see the guy backing away.....

This is why you don't physically attack people over an argument.......

 

[2aguy]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

How do you know wether more aggression was coming or not? Ever been kicked in the head when you are on the ground?

How?
Because he was unarmed, because he was five feet away and backing away when he saw a gun, because he shoved the guy away from his girlfriend instead of punching him

Having a gun means might makes right
It SHOULD mean you have to show responsible judgement or pay the consequences

Sorry...... watching it on the video is completely different from being violently pushed to the ground, and the attacker kept advancing...... you don't know what you are talking about.... the victims body chemistry took over. You should really do some research into self defense so you might know what you are talking about.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

It is not a stand your ground case.....when you are on the ground, you can't retreat. which takes away the stand your ground issue....just like in the Martin shooting.

As to wether he deserved to shoot the guy..... do you know what the intent of the man standing up was? Do you know what it looked like to the man on the ground? When you are in a self defense situation, your vision constricts, your sense of time goes haywire...all because of an adrenaline dump....as the guy backed up, the guy on the ground could have believed the other guy was reaching for his own weapon...

this is why you don't push people to the ground.......

This is why concealed carry can get out of hand

Dont attack someone.
Problem solved.

 

[2aguy]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

That is the law..... you have to be in fear of death or grievious bodily harm..... and since the attacker attacked the guy violently and then kept advancing..... it was on him....not the victim.

 

[2aguy]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

How do you know wether more aggression was coming or not? Ever been kicked in the head when you are on the ground?

How?
Because he was unarmed, because he was five feet away and backing away when he saw a gun, because he shoved the guy away from his girlfriend instead of punching him

Having a gun means might makes right
It SHOULD mean you have to show responsible judgement or pay the consequences

The guy didn't warn the victim, he walked up and pushed him to the ground and kept advancing, no word or warning and the attack..... normal people don't do that, so what was coming next? More Violence? Pulling a weapon?

 

[2aguy]

To me, Stand your Ground means you are not expected to run away from a confrontation, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or your property

In this case, I see a man who was shoved to the ground. Not punched, but forcibly shoved

Once on the ground, I do not see the other man continue the assault and once the gun is drawn, he is backing away

The shot is fired with the man five feet away and backing away from the gun

It no longer seems to be self defense, I see no threat at that time and the guy on the ground seems to fire more in rage than in defending himself

He was forcibly shoved. The dude went flying.
I wouldnt have shot the dude personally. Once he drew his weapon the guy backed off.
Get the plate number and call the cops.

Agree

But the question is, does a shove justify lethal force if there is no further aggression ?

Both acted poorly

How do you know wether more aggression was coming or not? Ever been kicked in the head when you are on the ground?

How?
Because he was unarmed, because he was five feet away and backing away when he saw a gun, because he shoved the guy away from his girlfriend instead of punching him

Having a gun means might makes right
It SHOULD mean you have to show responsible judgement or pay the consequences

How do you know the guy was unarmed? When you have been violently attacked and the guy is advancing on you?

 

[cwise76]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Murder straight up

 

[cwise76]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

Horse shit. Watch the video