Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[Vastator]

Technically, on the video, the guy advances and only retreats, slightly when the gun is pointed at him..... but between the backing up and shooting there isn't time, and he got shot..... Again, the guy violently attacked the victim....

If you start screaming at a woman in a parking lot while her boyfriend is in the shop while you're armed, you don't belong around guns

It depends on the situation there sport. I agree in principle, but so long as you don't pull the weapon, then what is your beef?

Gun safety starts with avoiding dangerous situations where possible. You don't create a dangerous situation where there could be a shooting. If you're screaming at a woman and her boyfriend is coming out, that right there is setting up a dangerous situation. I mean duh. How do you not get that?

I'm disappointed in all of you who apparently don't view being armed in public as a responsiblity. Particularly 2aguy who is a longtime ally in arguing 2nd amendment rights. What about try NOT to use your gun eludes you?

Armed, or not one is obligated to act responsibly in public. It’s a good idea to do the same in private as well. As to what constitutes him screaming at her... That’s subjective, and we have no idea if she was “screaming” at him in kind. Nor who “screamed” first.
As for doing this while her boyfriend was coming out of the store... It’s unlikely that the victim knew he was being approached by her boyfriend. Otherwise he would likely have made some move to defend himself against an approaching threat. As for the assailaints moral high ground... Muh dicking for your girlfriend gets no traction. He could have just as easily displayed his virtue by telling the driver not to park in the handicapped spot.
And for those bleeding hearts who assume the assailants location indicated the assault was over... You‘re merely speculating. The assault is only over when the assailant decides its over; or when he’s rendered incapable of furthering the assault. The victim made the choice in this case, by opting for choice two.

Yes, and by repeatedly being aggressive and armed, death was the eventual outcome, which is why it was murder. That isn't how you act when you're armed

No.

 

[bodecea]

How is this political? It's a tough call even if you know more than the single paragraph posted.

Because this about the son that Obama never had.

There it is again.

 

[bodecea]

The victim was backing away. Use of deadly force on a retreating target is illegal.

Depends....he could have indicated and was retreating to get his "gat" out of the car...she gets out after he was pushed

What was said ?

The victim was white, so I doubt that was the case. Even so, verbal threats while retreating do not justify deadly force.

Looks black to me.

Maybe, the video is not very good.

He's black alright.

A thug then?

 

[RandomPoster]

Gun safety starts with avoiding dangerous situations where possible. You don't create a dangerous situation where there could be a shooting. If you're screaming at a woman and her boyfriend is coming out, that right there is setting up a dangerous situation.

The shover created the situation. Until then it was all verbal.

We have no idea what he said. A blanket statement that it was only verbal is absurd. If a man walks up to another man screaming in his face that his wife is a whore and that he should take her home to show her a real man. He deserves to get his ass kicked. What if a man tells another man his 15 old daughter has a nice a** and he'd like to f*** it because he likes them at that age? Are those only words? Should the father try to reason with him? The idea that you can say whatever you want in whatever manner you want and not expect to get hit is ridiculous.

 

[Unkotare]

Let’s be honest about stand your ground. It’s a law so pussies can’t be abused. ....

You think it’s a law just for you? Does it really prevent you from being abused?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Depends....he could have indicated and was retreating to get his "gat" out of the car...she gets out after he was pushed

What was said ?

The victim was white, so I doubt that was the case. Even so, verbal threats while retreating do not justify deadly force.

Looks black to me.

Maybe, the video is not very good.

He's black alright.

A thug then?

Who said that?

 

[kaz]

If you’re attacking me and I pull a gun and you stop, I can’t shoot

Not necessarily.

I just ran this scenario by my dad. He said of course he’d shoot someone who violently threw him to the ground. What more does he need to do to me before I get to shoot?

I think the message behind stand your ground is keep your hands off people

Did you mention the part to your dad where in the scenario he is in the parking lot screaming at the guys wife when he came out of the store?

Yes. Then he back peddled but still he had no right to escalate from words to physical. Even if someone’s screaming at my wife I don’t have the right to punch the screamer. You ever argue with someone’s mother or wife?

Like I said the lesson should be don’t touch people but some people deserve to be punched. But if they have a gun they might also have the right to strike back the only way they can.

I would find the guy guilty.

So you're saying that your father said that if he was screaming at a woman in a parking lot and her boyfriend came out and shoved him, your father said he'd waste his sorry ass because he deserves to die and he wouldn't think twice.

Just making sure I understand

 

[beagle9]

After reviewing the video, it appears by the witness accounts and/or recollection of the store owner, that this guy Draca (?) and his past stalking of that parking spot was actually the culprit in the case.

Not a case for stand your ground at all. It sounded as if the guy was trying to start trouble in a pattern time line according to the store owner in which might just turn out to be a premeditated act of violence that he (Draca), has now committed on the poor guy for whom his only crime was violating a handicap space ?? Good grief.

Getting in a woman's face while her boyfriend or husband was near, and verbally assaulting her was sure to bring about the reaction it did, and now Draca will pay the consequences for his idiocy. I hope he gets life if a pattern is proven.

 

[westwall]

Depends....he could have indicated and was retreating to get his "gat" out of the car...she gets out after he was pushed

What was said ?

The victim was white, so I doubt that was the case. Even so, verbal threats while retreating do not justify deadly force.

Looks black to me.

Maybe, the video is not very good.

He's black alright.

A thug then?

Why are you such a racist? There was no implication that he was a thug because he was black. Why do you have to always go down that road?

 

[kaz]

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for their civil discourse

Funny how when leftists aren't really participating in a discussion it works that way, huh?

Pardon me?

You're pardoned

 

[OODA_Loop]

I WAS INCORRECT - THE OTHER THREAD INDICATED THIS HAD BEEN ADJUDICATED IN A SYG HEARING. IT HAS NOT GONE TO THAT HEARING,

 

[JoeMoma]

I WAS INCORRECT - THE OTHER THREAD INDICATED THIS HAD BEEN ADJUDICATED IN A SYG HEARING. IT HAS NOT GONE TO THAT HEARING,

Thanks!
The shooting happened just two days ago. Court hearings don't happen so fast.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The victim was white, so I doubt that was the case. Even so, verbal threats while retreating do not justify deadly force.

Looks black to me.

Maybe, the video is not very good.

He's black alright.

A thug then?

Why are you such a racist? There was no implication that he was a thug because he was black. Why do you have to always go down that road?

 

[OODA_Loop]

My premise remains the same. In a self-defensive shooting or other lethal force you are allowed to present a SYG defense to a judge who can settle the matter without further legal action. (*in Florida)

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I WAS INCORRECT - THE OTHER THREAD INDICATED THIS HAD BEEN ADJUDICATED IN A SYG HEARING. IT HAS NOT GONE TO THAT HEARING,

Yeah I know what you mean....
I've adjusted my views as the facts come in but all I hear about is my original post.
I hate it when people jump into a thread and start shit before reading the whole thing.
It's been particularly bad in this thread.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

My premise remains the same. In a self-defensive shooting or other lethal force you are allowed to present a SYG defense to a judge who can settle the matter without further legal action. (*in Florida)

My take at this point is the guy was within his rights to shoot but dont think he really had to.

 

[toobfreak]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

Absolutely unjustified, and the shooter will fry for this. The attacker was not armed, was not threatening him after the shove, and was seen backing away. At no time or in any way was the man's life in danger or could he claim he thought was in danger. The brandishing of the gun alone ended the danger. The shooter committed murder. You can't just kill someone for simple assault.

 

[Vastator]

Technically, on the video, the guy advances and only retreats, slightly when the gun is pointed at him..... but between the backing up and shooting there isn't time, and he got shot..... Again, the guy violently attacked the victim....

If you start screaming at a woman in a parking lot while her boyfriend is in the shop while you're armed, you don't belong around guns

It depends on the situation there sport. I agree in principle, but so long as you don't pull the weapon, then what is your beef?

Gun safety starts with avoiding dangerous situations where possible. You don't create a dangerous situation where there could be a shooting. If you're screaming at a woman and her boyfriend is coming out, that right there is setting up a dangerous situation. I mean duh. How do you not get that?

I'm disappointed in all of you who apparently don't view being armed in public as a responsiblity. Particularly 2aguy who is a longtime ally in arguing 2nd amendment rights. What about try NOT to use your gun eludes you?

Armed, or not one is obligated to act responsibly in public. It’s a good idea to do the same in private as well. As to what constitutes him screaming at her... That’s subjective, and we have no idea if she was “screaming” at him in kind. Nor who “screamed” first.
As for doing this while her boyfriend was coming out of the store... It’s unlikely that the victim knew he was being approached by her boyfriend. Otherwise he would likely have made some move to defend himself against an approaching threat. As for the assailaints moral high ground... Muh dicking for your girlfriend gets no traction. He could have just as easily displayed his virtue by telling the driver not to park in the handicapped spot.
And for those bleeding hearts who assume the assailants location indicated the assault was over... You‘re merely speculating. The assault is only over when the assailant decides its over; or when he’s rendered incapable of furthering the assault. The victim made the choice in this case, by opting for choice two.

Yes, and by repeatedly being aggressive and armed, death was the eventual outcome, which is why it was murder. That isn't how you act when you're armed

Being armed has nothing to do with how you should act.

 

[cwise76]

If you start screaming at a woman in a parking lot while her boyfriend is in the shop while you're armed, you don't belong around guns

It depends on the situation there sport. I agree in principle, but so long as you don't pull the weapon, then what is your beef?

Gun safety starts with avoiding dangerous situations where possible. You don't create a dangerous situation where there could be a shooting. If you're screaming at a woman and her boyfriend is coming out, that right there is setting up a dangerous situation. I mean duh. How do you not get that?

I'm disappointed in all of you who apparently don't view being armed in public as a responsiblity. Particularly 2aguy who is a longtime ally in arguing 2nd amendment rights. What about try NOT to use your gun eludes you?

Armed, or not one is obligated to act responsibly in public. It’s a good idea to do the same in private as well. As to what constitutes him screaming at her... That’s subjective, and we have no idea if she was “screaming” at him in kind. Nor who “screamed” first.
As for doing this while her boyfriend was coming out of the store... It’s unlikely that the victim knew he was being approached by her boyfriend. Otherwise he would likely have made some move to defend himself against an approaching threat. As for the assailaints moral high ground... Muh dicking for your girlfriend gets no traction. He could have just as easily displayed his virtue by telling the driver not to park in the handicapped spot.
And for those bleeding hearts who assume the assailants location indicated the assault was over... You‘re merely speculating. The assault is only over when the assailant decides its over; or when he’s rendered incapable of furthering the assault. The victim made the choice in this case, by opting for choice two.

Yes, and by repeatedly being aggressive and armed, death was the eventual outcome, which is why it was murder. That isn't how you act when you're armed

Being armed has nothing to do with how you should act.

?

 

[OODA_Loop]

I WAS INCORRECT - THE OTHER THREAD INDICATED THIS HAD BEEN ADJUDICATED IN A SYG HEARING. IT HAS NOT GONE TO THAT HEARING,

Yeah I know what you mean....
I've adjusted my views as the facts come in but all I hear about is my original post.
I hate it when people jump into a thread and start shit before reading the whole thing.
It's been particularly bad in this thread.

I was wrong in thinking the SYG hearing had happened, The take away is keep to yourself. You never know who can and will seriously ruin your day if you get stupid.