Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[OODA_Loop]

He's armed. It doesn't matter if she is in the car. Bullets go through glass.

He wasn't brandishing, If he was I would shoot him repeatedly and accurately till he dropped his weapon or was no longer a threat.

 

[beagle9]

Why are people parking in a handicap spot?

The store worker said the shooter was frequently harassing people.

First: that woman was NOT "parked" in a handicapped spot. She was STANDING. There's a difference, and no one gets arrested or a ticket for standing (meaning a qualified driver is in the standing car and can move it if an authority demands). That's why, presumably, she was in the car while boyfriend picked something up. Irrelevant anyway: it's not an offense anyone gets arrested for, and I know because people do it all the time where I live. It's hard to blame them, too ----------- eight empty places empty all the time right by the door? Darn.

Second: that guy was looking to shoot someone. He wanted to kill, kill, blood in his teeth. He was one angry guy.

Were these white guys or black guys or Cuban or something? Anyone know? Hard to tell from the video.

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black

So your assertion is that the alledged white guy was stalking the alledged black people, and using the parking spot as the starter ??? Hope not, and hopefully if race was a factor in the case, then it needs to be qualified as such in the proper legal proceedings, and not on the street in speculation of or in rumor of. Hope that you are not interjecting race where not credible in the case.

 

[OODA_Loop]

He's talking about his fists, moron. I mean duh. How did you possibly not get that?

In that case did he place his hands on anyone ?

You already admitted that you and your wife would both have felt threatened if it had been you

Yes but the threat has not risen to a level requiring lethal force absent hands on or brandishing a weapon.

 

[Circe]

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black[/QUOTE]



Ahhhhhh………..a race murder by a black, then, if you are right. The black screaming at a white woman.

Sheeeeesh. BLM.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Technically, on the video, the guy advances and only retreats, slightly when the gun is pointed at him..... but between the backing up and shooting there isn't time, and he got shot..... Again, the guy violently attacked the victim....

Bullshit. I’d bet you a million bucks he’s going to prison. I’ll bet a jury will agree too

Past history doesn't matter when you have the video of the attacker initiating the violent attack..... He may have been shouting at the woman, he didn't initiate the violence....

So someone threatening your family is not initiating violence, got it

You dont know what was said between the two.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

I didnt hear what the guy and the chick were saying.

 

[kaz]

Why are people parking in a handicap spot?

The store worker said the shooter was frequently harassing people.

First: that woman was NOT "parked" in a handicapped spot. She was STANDING. There's a difference, and no one gets arrested or a ticket for standing (meaning a qualified driver is in the standing car and can move it if an authority demands). That's why, presumably, she was in the car while boyfriend picked something up. Irrelevant anyway: it's not an offense anyone gets arrested for, and I know because people do it all the time where I live. It's hard to blame them, too ----------- eight empty places empty all the time right by the door? Darn.

Second: that guy was looking to shoot someone. He wanted to kill, kill, blood in his teeth. He was one angry guy.

Were these white guys or black guys or Cuban or something? Anyone know? Hard to tell from the video.

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black

There was no "murder" shown on the video. Unless you meant to post this in another thread. Feel free to post a link for clarification of your post if you wish.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

I watched it many times now. Do you have a point?

You said I don't know what the guy was thinking. Go to the one minute mark of the video and the store owner tells you what he was thinking

 

[Vastator]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

Does one forfeit their right to defending themselves against an assault by a third party, if the third party decides he doesn't like your tone?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

But you have no idea what he was saying.

 

[Vastator]

You are wrong bud, because a push doesn't warrant being killed after the pusher disengaged immediately afterwards and stepped back.

Being knocked down onto the pavement can and will cause death death or great bodily harm or injury. You can parade many credible medical professionals to testify.

Stepping back from an attack on someone doesn't mean the attack is over.

Can cause, but didn't cause in the incident. Big important part of this case. He should have held his ground until the law arrived, and not defended it with lethal force once realized the weapon had stopped the attack.

Nothing was left but for the police to arrive, but he took the shot out of his rage.

You can't shoot to defend yourself if you are unconscious, or dead. So that guts that argument that you thought you were making.
And as for what the victim was feeling psycologically when he defended himself... Your claim is pure speculation, and nothing more.

Your assertions here are also pure speculation..

Actually mine are facts. Feel free to disprove them by posting a link to an incident where an unconciouss, or dead person has defended themselves. Don't worry. I'll wait...

 

[kaz]

You already admitted that both you and your wife would have been in fear for your wife's safety if it had been you. Cut the crap

No crap here. I would be in Condition Yellow were someone yelling at my wife while she is in the car.

She would have windows up and her lawful sidearm at the ready.

I would exit store (with or without hypothetical child in tow) in Condition Yellow and make to exfiltrate the area.

Lethal force would not be used or an option until such time that reasonable fear or injury or death.

I would not proceed to shove fight or engage the instigator under any circumstance.

So stop asking me a question you already answered yourself. The guy didn't just talk to the woman, he threatened her and you know it. So did he. Any full grown man knows that yelling at a woman in a parking lot is threatening. We're bigger and stronger than they are and it's psychotic behavior. That isn't just "verbal."

Can you process the point and move on now?

 

[kaz]

I have basic reasoning skills, yet.

And if you want to boil every point to that we can't discuss it on the internet without it having been proven in a court of law, that applies to every statement you're made as well, hypocrite.

I'm checking out of this discussion with you if you continue with the bull shit line that no one but you is allowed to say anything because you know and we don't

It is really not discussion you want then.

I said you keep telling me everything I say is speculation, yet you admit no such thing for yourself.

You're the one evading a discussion by doing that. It's a form of ad hominem argument

 

[Meathead]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

Absolutely justifiable. That was aggravated assault.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

First: that woman was NOT "parked" in a handicapped spot. She was STANDING. There's a difference, and no one gets arrested or a ticket for standing (meaning a qualified driver is in the standing car and can move it if an authority demands). That's why, presumably, she was in the car while boyfriend picked something up. Irrelevant anyway: it's not an offense anyone gets arrested for, and I know because people do it all the time where I live. It's hard to blame them, too ----------- eight empty places empty all the time right by the door? Darn.

Second: that guy was looking to shoot someone. He wanted to kill, kill, blood in his teeth. He was one angry guy.

Were these white guys or black guys or Cuban or something? Anyone know? Hard to tell from the video.

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black

There was no "murder" shown on the video. Unless you meant to post this in another thread. Feel free to post a link for clarification of your post if you wish.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

I watched it many times now. Do you have a point?

You said I don't know what the guy was thinking. Go to the one minute mark of the video and the store owner tells you what he was thinking

How can the store owner possibly know what was said?

 

[Vastator]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

What is undetermined is "who started "screaming" first", and what was being "screamed", and if both parties were screaming at each other. What is clear, is that the victim presented no physical threat to the woman. What is equally clear is that the victim never screamed at the man who initiated the assault.

There are plenty of character witnesses against the shooter that show his state of mind. The OWNER of the convenient store said the shooter goes out in the parking lot and yells at people all the time.

Prior behavior doesn't prove state of mind in the moment. Have they witnessed the victims behavior while he was being assaulted, in the past? I saw no evidence to suggest they had.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Any full grown man knows that yelling at a woman in a parking lot is threatening. We're bigger and stronger than they are and it's psychotic behavior. That isn't just "verbal."

Can you process the point and move on now?

Yelling absent action is nothing.

Your point is words can deserve violence.

They don't. You should have learned that in Kindergarten.

 

[kaz]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

What is undetermined is "who started "screaming" first", and what was being "screamed", and if both parties were screaming at each other. What is clear, is that the victim presented no physical threat to the woman. What is equally clear is that the victim never screamed at the man who initiated the assault.

Go to the one minute mark of the video.

And did you just say that someone screaming at your wife is OK as long as they don't scream at you? A man views it the reverse, just so you know

 

[Circe]

So your assertion is that the alledged white guy was stalking the alledged black people, and using the parking spot as the starter ??? Hope not, and hopefully if race was a factor in the case, then it needs to be qualified as such in the proper legal proceedings, and not on the street in speculation of or in rumor of. Hope that you are not interjecting race where not credible in the case.

1. It can't be clear because I watched it, the large ABC version, and I did not see any race identification I could make. And you know that's the third thing Americans identify, after sex and age.

2. Apparently I AM interjecting race where it doesn't belong, because now people are claiming it was the OTHER way around. Some say the shooter was black and some say he was white -------------- this case is all over the place because it's terminally confusing. Forget about race for now: let's just try to get the facts accurate.

 

[Vastator]

One should conduct themselves the same whether armed or not. If having a weapon on your person changes your demeanor... Then you shouldn’t be carrying a weapon.

You've obviously never taken a gun safety course. I hope that means you don't have any guns

In keeping with a common thing amongst many on this thread, your post is pure speculation. Your "hopes" are of equally worthless value, as they pertain to this incident.

I like your lame repeated line that anything you think is fact and no one else can say what they think because that's just opinion. Keep on whining.

This is a discussion. We're discussing the evidence presented. Just like you're doing

Presenting what you believe others are thinking as fact, and sharing your feelings about other posters is in no way discussing the evidence presented. Its nothing more than unsubstantiated, and unproveable gossip.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

You keep repeating yourself. Quit spamming, and bring relevant content.

 

[Lewdog]

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

What is undetermined is "who started "screaming" first", and what was being "screamed", and if both parties were screaming at each other. What is clear, is that the victim presented no physical threat to the woman. What is equally clear is that the victim never screamed at the man who initiated the assault.

There are plenty of character witnesses against the shooter that show his state of mind. The OWNER of the convenient store said the shooter goes out in the parking lot and yells at people all the time.

Prior behavior doesn't prove state of mind in the moment. Have they witnessed the victims behavior while he was being assaulted, in the past? I saw no evidence to suggest they had.

Yes it does. Just the fact you are asking that question tells me you haven't actually watched the video.

How many pages have you been arguing and haven't even watched the fucking video? Or are you watching it and not listening to the sound?

 

[kaz]

Why are people parking in a handicap spot?

The store worker said the shooter was frequently harassing people.

First: that woman was NOT "parked" in a handicapped spot. She was STANDING. There's a difference, and no one gets arrested or a ticket for standing (meaning a qualified driver is in the standing car and can move it if an authority demands). That's why, presumably, she was in the car while boyfriend picked something up. Irrelevant anyway: it's not an offense anyone gets arrested for, and I know because people do it all the time where I live. It's hard to blame them, too ----------- eight empty places empty all the time right by the door? Darn.

Second: that guy was looking to shoot someone. He wanted to kill, kill, blood in his teeth. He was one angry guy.

Were these white guys or black guys or Cuban or something? Anyone know? Hard to tell from the video.

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black

So your assertion is that the alledged white guy was stalking the alledged black people, and using the parking spot as the starter ??? Hope not, and hopefully if race was a factor in the case, then it needs to be qualified as such in the proper legal proceedings, and not on the street in speculation of or in rumor of. Hope that you are not interjecting race where not credible in the case.

WTF? I answered the question asked. What is wrong with you?