Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[kaz]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

So you don't think 9/11 was not murder one, just manslaughter? Seriously? You have to target the specific victim?

That's ridiculous. If you shoot into a crowd, it's murder one. You don't have to know who you are going to kill

 

[beagle9]

So you're saying that your father said that if he was screaming at a woman in a parking lot and her boyfriend came out and shoved him, your father said he'd waste his sorry ass because he deserves to die and he wouldn't think twice.

Just making sure I understand

Problem: he shoved him on to the pavement. I think that's significant and it's why this creepazoid will probably get off. Being shoved right off his feet makes him helpless (which is the point of doing it) and so he drew and shot. If you watch the video it's extremely fast -- wham down on the pavement, bam goes the gun. No thought occurred. I'm guessing he'll get off.

I sort of hope he's banned from that supermarket, though. That would seem fair, at least.

Not sure what you saw, but the shot wasn't immediate.

 

[Circe]

Did you seriously just ask that? First of all, a full size grown man screaming at a woman can do great bodily harm to a woman, yes.

To be fair, not if she stayed in the car! Which she did, until boyfriend came out, and she never was hurt (except that the father of her children was killed --) Boy, if it were me, I'd sure have stayed in that car, closed up the window, locked the doors, started honking over and over ---

Actually, aggressive honking the horn might well have stopped the bullying attack. That's what this guy was doing, you realize: he didn't know there WAS a boyfriend. He was having himself a big ol' time bullying a woman.

 

[kaz]

Why are people parking in a handicap spot?

The store worker said the shooter was frequently harassing people.

First: that woman was NOT "parked" in a handicapped spot. She was STANDING. There's a difference, and no one gets arrested or a ticket for standing (meaning a qualified driver is in the standing car and can move it if an authority demands). That's why, presumably, she was in the car while boyfriend picked something up. Irrelevant anyway: it's not an offense anyone gets arrested for, and I know because people do it all the time where I live. It's hard to blame them, too ----------- eight empty places empty all the time right by the door? Darn.

Second: that guy was looking to shoot someone. He wanted to kill, kill, blood in his teeth. He was one angry guy.

Were these white guys or black guys or Cuban or something? Anyone know? Hard to tell from the video.

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black

There was no "murder" shown on the video. Unless you meant to post this in another thread. Feel free to post a link for clarification of your post if you wish.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

 

[kaz]

Did you seriously just ask that? First of all, a full size grown man screaming at a woman can do great bodily harm to a woman, yes.

How is she harmed by words - her hearing ?

You already admitted that both you and your wife would have been in fear for your wife's safety if it had been you. Cut the crap

 

[Vastator]

Being armed has nothing to do with how you should act.

It only does for responsible gun owners, not for you. The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

One should conduct themselves the same whether armed or not. If having a weapon on your person changes your demeanor... Then you shouldn’t be carrying a weapon.

You've obviously never taken a gun safety course. I hope that means you don't have any guns

In keeping with a common thing amongst many on this thread, your post is pure speculation. Your "hopes" are of equally worthless value, as they pertain to this incident.

I like your lame repeated line that anything you think is fact and no one else can say what they think because that's just opinion. Keep on whining.

This is a discussion. We're discussing the evidence presented. Just like you're doing

Presenting what you believe others are thinking as fact, and sharing your feelings about other posters is in no way discussing the evidence presented. Its nothing more than unsubstantiated, and unproveable gossip.

 

[kaz]

When you're screaming at a woman in the parking lot waiving your hands, that isn't just words. So seriously, if that happened to your wife, you'd say that? They're just words? Or would you have been very concerned for your wife's safety?

And regardless, when someone shoves you and backs away, that doesn't give you the right to shoot them.

Again, where I'm from, if I'd been armed and screaming at the woman, my community would stop supporting what I did right there. They'd have said I had already violated gun safety standards and created a hostile situation, which you don't do when armed. Then I get shoved by her boyfriend and I gank him? No way, it's not right.

At least not where I was raised

Technically, on the video, the guy advances and only retreats, slightly when the gun is pointed at him..... but between the backing up and shooting there isn't time, and he got shot..... Again, the guy violently attacked the victim....

Bullshit. I’d bet you a million bucks he’s going to prison. I’ll bet a jury will agree too

Past history doesn't matter when you have the video of the attacker initiating the violent attack..... He may have been shouting at the woman, he didn't initiate the violence....

So someone threatening your family is not initiating violence, got it

You dont know what was said between the two.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

 

[Vastator]

Why are people parking in a handicap spot?

The store worker said the shooter was frequently harassing people.

First: that woman was NOT "parked" in a handicapped spot. She was STANDING. There's a difference, and no one gets arrested or a ticket for standing (meaning a qualified driver is in the standing car and can move it if an authority demands). That's why, presumably, she was in the car while boyfriend picked something up. Irrelevant anyway: it's not an offense anyone gets arrested for, and I know because people do it all the time where I live. It's hard to blame them, too ----------- eight empty places empty all the time right by the door? Darn.

Second: that guy was looking to shoot someone. He wanted to kill, kill, blood in his teeth. He was one angry guy.

Were these white guys or black guys or Cuban or something? Anyone know? Hard to tell from the video.

Actually the video is quite clear. The murderer was white and the victim was black

There was no "murder" shown on the video. Unless you meant to post this in another thread. Feel free to post a link for clarification of your post if you wish.

Go to the one minute mark of the video

I watched it many times now. Do you have a point?

 

[PredFan]

I want black guys with ccw permits to go hit on white guys girlfriends. Don’t touch but verbally be really aggressive and disrespect the white guy. When he pushes you blow him away and claim stand your ground

Holy shit!!! Again?
I posted three links saying the sheriff wasnt going to charge the guy and one where I specifically stated that it will be decided by the DA.
Did you even read the whole thread or did you jump in late and start spouting shit?

Guess who files criminal charges dumbass!

My God you are thick! The cops didn't arrest him. That doesn't mean he was cleared of anything.

Who the fuck cares who files them ya tard.
Fact is the cops said they werent and they'd leave to the higher ups to charge him if they wanted to.

You keep saying he was cleared. That's not true,

This case isn’t over and the guy isn’t cleared. You can’t just shoot and kill somebody like that.

The video is clear to me: The boyfriend came to the aide of his GF who was being screamed at by a known antagonist(and possible racist so maybe he was using the N word)pushes him away and backed up. The guy with gun pulled the trigger as the BF was backing away. Again cold blooded murder and I hope that they lock his ass up.

I agree, but I also hope the message is being received that you can’t physically attack someone like that guy did. He didn’t need to push him that hard. That was wrong and why right wing cowards passed stand your ground. It’s a bully law. It allows weak gun owners to defend themselves. Kick sand in my face? Eat lead bully.

First two sentences are correct, then you spiraled into stupid.

 

[kaz]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

 

[beagle9]

You are wrong bud, because a push doesn't warrant being killed after the pusher disengaged immediately afterwards and stepped back.

Being knocked down onto the pavement can and will cause death death or great bodily harm or injury. You can parade many credible medical professionals to testify.

Stepping back from an attack on someone doesn't mean the attack is over.

Can cause, but didn't cause in the incident. Big important part of this case. He should have held his ground until the law arrived, and not defended it with lethal force once realized the weapon had stopped the attack.

Nothing was left but for the police to arrive, but he took the shot out of his rage.

You can't shoot to defend yourself if you are unconscious, or dead. So that guts that argument that you thought you were making.
And as for what the victim was feeling psycologically when he defended himself... Your claim is pure speculation, and nothing more.

Your assertions here are also pure speculation..

 

[kaz]

It only does for responsible gun owners, not for you. The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

You don't really know that

You've obviously never taken a gun safety course

I have. How do you know he wanted to murder ?

The answer to that is in my quote

Come on you dont know that. You think that.

I have basic reasoning skills, yet.

And if you want to boil every point to that we can't discuss it on the internet without it having been proven in a court of law, that applies to every statement you're made as well, hypocrite.

I'm checking out of this discussion with you if you continue with the bull shit line that no one but you is allowed to say anything because you know and we don't

 

[OODA_Loop]

You already admitted that both you and your wife would have been in fear for your wife's safety if it had been you. Cut the crap

No crap here. I would be in Condition Yellow were someone yelling at my wife while she is in the car.

She would have windows up and her lawful sidearm at the ready.

I would exit store (with or without hypothetical child in tow) in Condition Yellow and make to exfiltrate the area.

Lethal force would not be used or an option until such time that reasonable fear or injury or death.

I would not proceed to shove fight or engage the instigator under any circumstance.

 

[OODA_Loop]

I have basic reasoning skills, yet.

And if you want to boil every point to that we can't discuss it on the internet without it having been proven in a court of law, that applies to every statement you're made as well, hypocrite.

I'm checking out of this discussion with you if you continue with the bull shit line that no one but you is allowed to say anything because you know and we don't

It is really not discussion you want then.

 

[Vastator]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

What is undetermined is "who started "screaming" first", and what was being "screamed", and if both parties were screaming at each other. What is clear, is that the victim presented no physical threat to the woman. What is equally clear is that the victim never screamed at the man who initiated the assault.

 

[Lewdog]

You already admitted that both you and your wife would have been in fear for your wife's safety if it had been you. Cut the crap

No crap here. I would be in Condition Yellow were someone yelling at my wife while she is in the car.

She would have windows up and her lawful sidearm at the ready.

I would exit store (with or without hypothetical child in tow) in Condition Yellow and make to exfiltrate the area.

Lethal force would not be used or an option until such time that reasonable fear or injury or death.

I would not proceed to shove fight or engage the instigator under any circumstance.

He's armed. It doesn't matter if she is in the car. Bullets go through glass.

 

[kaz]

He's talking about his fists, moron. I mean duh. How did you possibly not get that?

In that case did he place his hands on anyone ?

You already admitted that you and your wife would both have felt threatened if it had been you

 

[Lewdog]

[ The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

Yeah...………….not your last point, that it's Murder One: it isn't because he didn't specifically plan that specific murder. The most it is, is manslaughter, IMO.

But I think you make a good point that needed making: this guy WAS a loaded gun. He wanted very badly to kill someone, and yeah, he just kept on and on till he got what he wanted.

These types are probably best avoided...…...

You have no way of knowing what a complete stranger wants. You should quit believing you do. That's how mistakes are made.

The guy was screaming at his girlfriend in the parking lot. How is that possibly unclear to you?

What is undetermined is "who started "screaming" first", and what was being "screamed", and if both parties were screaming at each other. What is clear, is that the victim presented no physical threat to the woman. What is equally clear is that the victim never screamed at the man who initiated the assault.

There are plenty of character witnesses against the shooter that show his state of mind. The OWNER of the convenient store said the shooter goes out in the parking lot and yells at people all the time.

 

[kaz]

Did you seriously just ask that? First of all, a full size grown man screaming at a woman can do great bodily harm to a woman, yes.

To be fair, not if she stayed in the car! Which she did, until boyfriend came out, and she never was hurt (except that the father of her children was killed --) Boy, if it were me, I'd sure have stayed in that car, closed up the window, locked the doors, started honking over and over ---

Actually, aggressive honking the horn might well have stopped the bullying attack. That's what this guy was doing, you realize: he didn't know there WAS a boyfriend. He was having himself a big ol' time bullying a woman.

I agree except we don't know the guy didn't know there was a boyfriend since he was guard dogging the parking spot

 

[kaz]

It only does for responsible gun owners, not for you. The guy set up a loop where he was armed and the aggressor and was going to kill anyone who fought back. Then he kept repeating it until he got what he wanted. That's murder one

One should conduct themselves the same whether armed or not. If having a weapon on your person changes your demeanor... Then you shouldn’t be carrying a weapon.

You've obviously never taken a gun safety course. I hope that means you don't have any guns

In keeping with a common thing amongst many on this thread, your post is pure speculation. Your "hopes" are of equally worthless value, as they pertain to this incident.

I like your lame repeated line that anything you think is fact and no one else can say what they think because that's just opinion. Keep on whining.

This is a discussion. We're discussing the evidence presented. Just like you're doing

Presenting what you believe others are thinking as fact, and sharing your feelings about other posters is in no way discussing the evidence presented. Its nothing more than unsubstantiated, and unproveable gossip.

Go to the one minute mark of the video