Kate Steinle murderer found not guilty of murder.

[Flash]

Exactly. Same thing as Trayvon Martin. They went after 2nd degree and only asked the jury to consider manslaughter much later. But by then it was to late, they had already framed the case as 2nd degree. IMO, in both cases murder was a lofty goal due to a highly charged emotional and political environment, but manslaughter (most likely involuntary) would have been a reasonable argument.

While I agree with your summation, the jury still failed to deliver an appropriate sentence.

All of which proves Trump right once again, white people cannot get a fair trial with a Mexican judge or jury. They are racist to the core.

Juries make a decision, the judge determines the sentence within the rules of the court. What was proved, the takeaway, is the jury did not find the defendant committed a crime which met the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt; they did find the defendant guilty of other crimes within the filing.

As for Trump, his presumption of guilt sans any evidence should scare all Americans. Your assessment in your second paragraph is racist and bullshit.

Juries from places like Commie Queertown, California make some really dumb choices, don't you agree, Moon Bat? Especial decisions involving Illegals when three of the jury members are most likely Illegals themselves.

 

[Rambunctious]

Agreed. Which is why is would be difficult for the prosecution for prove murder. They have no idea what he was thinking. But they do know the bullet wasn't a direct hit

So if someone shoots at you and misses but the bullet ricochets and kills you the shooter gets off Scott free? Because he is a bad shot? What kind of idiocy has rotted your brain?

Dear Fang and Rambunctious
If the circumstances were purely accidental and legal for him to be there, yes this could be argued as an accidental shooting death. That is not murder, but could be negligent homicide if negligence is involved.
Even Zimmerman didn't get negligent homicide as many including me thought would better describe what went wrong when he killed Trayvon Martin.

In this case, "felony murder" comes the closest to the circumstances around the death. It still isn't exactly what happened to the "letter of the law."
But it matches closely "in spirit."

Basically the man has a felony record, and the ACT of re-entry into the country after deportation CAN be punished as a felony.
But being present in the country isn't a felony, not even in his case. He just has a felony background, and RE-ENTRY can be a felony.

Then any death that occurs, even unintentional or accidental, during the COMMISSION of a felony CAN be charged as "felony murder" IN SOME STATES.

So the two reasons this doesn't apply here directly, is the state has different laws and interpretations of felony murder. And the man's presence at that location when the death occurred because he had committed a felony "in the past" doesn't necessarily count as felony in the PRESENT when the death occurred. It wasn't "during the commission" of his PAST felonies.

So it is stretch, and other people who DO CALL HIS PRESENCE to be a felony DO count this as murder.

What they could do is consider everyone in SF who ENABLED this man to be there could count as an ACCESSORY to felony, and thus contributed to felony murder by letting him here where a DEATH occurred, accidental or unintentional or not.

That's a HUGE stretch. But it could be argued IN SPIRIT, just the letter of the law can contradict that and get them off the hook which is what they use, the letter of the law to violate the SPIRIT of the law.

If he killed Kate while driving drunk he would have done big time in prison. Yet he can break the law by entering our nation illegally and processing a hand gun illegally and killing a innocent young women with the rest of her life ahead of her. To defend the decision of the jury is to be as cold and unthinking as a human can be. Maybe you should move to San Francisco, you would fit right in.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

His immigration status has everything to do with his ability to be there and kill Kate.
If you need to make excuses for illegal immigrant criminals and their illegal activities ... That is the product of something more insidious than Fox News ...

.

Odd how the discussion does not focus on the gun and how it was obtained by the defendant. What the family of the victim has now, is to file a civil action against the agent and his or her agency.

Holding the agency and its employee accountable will do much more than the revenge most of those above are upset they didn't get, and maybe a civil judgement will prevent future incidents where a gun is stolen and used to harm or kill and innocent.

The family should sue the shit out of anyone letting this asshole free.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Maybe the Mexican moron could drop a bag in line of sight of Senator Corker. Do us all a favor.

A leftist wet dream, an illegal getting away with murdering an American

Perhaps his statue on Fisherman's Warph?

Or name a ship after him like that pedo fag Harvey Milk

Your pope is a fag lover. And the catholics church is a huge proponent of illegal immigration.

 

[BlackSand]

Odd how the discussion does not focus on the gun and how it was obtained by the defendant.

If you would like to discuss the multitude of other areas government oversight screwed the pooch ... Feel free ...
There is a reason he was standing on the pier in any case ... And I don't mind you dovetailing that into other shortcomings/incompetence on the part of the government.

.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

His immigration status has everything to do with his ability to be there and kill Kate.
If you need to make excuses for illegal immigrant criminals and their illegal activities ... That is the product of something more insidious than Fox News ...

.

Odd how the discussion does not focus on the gun and how it was obtained by the defendant. What the family of the victim has now, is to file a civil action against the agent and his or her agency.

Holding the agency and its employee accountable will do much more than the revenge most of those above are upset they didn't get, and maybe a civil judgement will prevent future incidents where a gun is stolen and used to harm or kill and innocent.

The family should sue the shit out of anyone letting this asshole free.

No doubt. And that will happen and is happening. Problem is, they're only suing tax payers. The current system of government punishes everyone for a politician's misdeeds.

 

[rightwinger]

I GET it. I am not advocating for illegals being here. I am commenting on the murder charge. That requires intent. He could have been in prison for manslaughter right now.

Sending him to prison doesn't seem to be the problem ... He has been there several times.
The fact they keep letting him out, back into the country, and residing in this country under the benefit of a sanctuary city is where the problem comes from*.

*Edit:
According to rightwinger ... That's Fox News' fault ...

.

No, what is Fox News' fault is creating hysteria and fear about Mexican immigrants over a case of manslaughter

An illegal immigrant who shouldn't have been in this country to start with and a young lady paid for it with her life. Fucking own that shit Liberal.

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

If had not been in the country as the law dictates we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

 

[Peach]

Facebook has a Petition of sorts; KUTV set it up. The Feds move at their own speed.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Sending him to prison doesn't seem to be the problem ... He has been there several times.
The fact they keep letting him out, back into the country, and residing in this country under the benefit of a sanctuary city is where the problem comes from*.

*Edit:
According to rightwinger ... That's Fox News' fault ...

.

No, what is Fox News' fault is creating hysteria and fear about Mexican immigrants over a case of manslaughter

An illegal immigrant who shouldn't have been in this country to start with and a young lady paid for it with her life. Fucking own that shit Liberal.

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

If had not been in the country as the law dictates we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

Weak.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Sending him to prison doesn't seem to be the problem ... He has been there several times.
The fact they keep letting him out, back into the country, and residing in this country under the benefit of a sanctuary city is where the problem comes from*.

*Edit:
According to rightwinger ... That's Fox News' fault ...

.

No, what is Fox News' fault is creating hysteria and fear about Mexican immigrants over a case of manslaughter

An illegal immigrant who shouldn't have been in this country to start with and a young lady paid for it with her life. Fucking own that shit Liberal.

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

If had not been in the country as the law dictates we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

You were making some decent arguments up until this one.

 

[Flash]

[QUOT


If he found something wrapped up, and he started to unwrap it & it went off, it is an accident.

.

You have it wrong.

He was a criminal that was in possession of a stolen gun that shot at an innocent person. The fact that it was a ricochet is only a testament to the asshole being a lousy shot.

The sonofbitch should never have been in the country to start with and the jury members were absolute idiots for letting the murderer off. Kind of like what the California jury did with OJ because of his race.

Despicable!

However, there will be good come of it. This will be Trump's rallying cry to build the wall,. deport more illegals and to punish sanctuary cites. All good things.

 

[rightwinger]

If had not been in the country as the law dictates we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And that is why libtards like WrongWinger cant get it; they are more concerned with WHO is presenting the facts rather than the validity of the facts.

When the government fails in its duty, the innocent suffer.

Liberals have forgotten this and the Steinle family has to relive their suffering now that a racist jury has given the green light to murdering white people living in their cities.

How do you know that if an illegal immigrant had not found that gun, that a child could not have with the same result?

 

[rightwinger]

No, what is Fox News' fault is creating hysteria and fear about Mexican immigrants over a case of manslaughter

An illegal immigrant who shouldn't have been in this country to start with and a young lady paid for it with her life. Fucking own that shit Liberal.

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

If had not been in the country as the law dictates we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

You were making some decent arguments up until this one.

I accept that you can't refute it
His illegal status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

 

[rightwinger]

The jury decision was unanimous.

7 felony convictions
5 deportations
Ice had a hold placed on him and the city let him go anyway. The city is guilty of negligent homicide imo. I hope they pay DEARLY.

He deserves the death penalty.

He deserves to be deported.

The shooting was an accident.

This is ore of a gun issue than a murder case. Millions of dumbasses toting loaded weapons everywhere they go.

This case should have been built around a BLM agent losing his weapon more than a "we need to build a wall" issue

 

[BlackSand]

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

If that is where you have to go to ignore the fact Garcia Zarate shouldn't have been standing on the pier in the first place ...
Then you are the perfect example of why we shouldn't trust the government to handle anything ...

.

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly. Same thing as Trayvon Martin. They went after 2nd degree and only asked the jury to consider manslaughter much later. But by then it was to late, they had already framed the case as 2nd degree. IMO, in both cases murder was a lofty goal due to a highly charged emotional and political environment, but manslaughter (most likely involuntary) would have been a reasonable argument.

While I agree with your summation, the jury still failed to deliver an appropriate sentence.

All of which proves Trump right once again, white people cannot get a fair trial with a Mexican judge or jury. They are racist to the core.

Juries make a decision, the judge determines the sentence within the rules of the court. What was proved, the takeaway, is the jury did not find the defendant committed a crime which met the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt; they did find the defendant guilty of other crimes within the filing.

As for Trump, his presumption of guilt sans any evidence should scare all Americans. Your assessment in your second paragraph is racist and bullshit.

Trump's turning this case into an anti-Mexican issue was despicable

 

[rightwinger]

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

If that is where you have to go to ignore the fact Garcia Zarate shouldn't have been standing on the pier in the first place ...
Then you are the perfect example of why we shouldn't trust the government to handle anything.

.

Again,
If he were not standing there......how can you be sure that some child would not have been

It was a tragic accident

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

An illegal immigrant who shouldn't have been in this country to start with and a young lady paid for it with her life. Fucking own that shit Liberal.

His immigration status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

Fox News stoked the fires of hatred against all immigrants based on an accidental shooting

If had not been in the country as the law dictates we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If not for.....

What conservatives are building their case around

If not for 10 million illegals in this country, the woman never would have been shot
If not for 300 million guns in this country, the woman would be alive today
If not for a BLM agent losing his gun, the woman would not have been shot
If not for a bizarrely amazing shot that bounced off the pavement 80 feet away and managed to kill her

There are plenty of "what ifs"

You were making some decent arguments up until this one.

I accept that you can't refute it
His illegal status had nothing to do with whether it was a murder or not

That's a subjective opinion, if he wasn't in SF, it wouldn't have happened to Steinle. See? I can make that same argument from my angle?

 

[BlackSand]

Again,
If he were not standing there......how can you be sure that some child would not have been

It was a tragic accident

I cannot assume what would or wouldn't have happened if he wasn't standing there ... I can say he wouldn't have killed Kate though ...
You can tell yourself whatever you need to in order to support your blind ignorance.

.

 

[emilynghiem]

Agreed. Which is why is would be difficult for the prosecution for prove murder. They have no idea what he was thinking. But they do know the bullet wasn't a direct hit

So if someone shoots at you and misses but the bullet ricochets and kills you the shooter gets off Scott free? Because he is a bad shot? What kind of idiocy has rotted your brain?

Dear Fang and Rambunctious
If the circumstances were purely accidental and legal for him to be there, yes this could be argued as an accidental shooting death. That is not murder, but could be negligent homicide if negligence is involved.
Even Zimmerman didn't get negligent homicide as many including me thought would better describe what went wrong when he killed Trayvon Martin.

In this case, "felony murder" comes the closest to the circumstances around the death. It still isn't exactly what happened to the "letter of the law."
But it matches closely "in spirit."

Basically the man has a felony record, and the ACT of re-entry into the country after deportation CAN be punished as a felony.
But being present in the country isn't a felony, not even in his case. He just has a felony background, and RE-ENTRY can be a felony.

Then any death that occurs, even unintentional or accidental, during the COMMISSION of a felony CAN be charged as "felony murder" IN SOME STATES.

So the two reasons this doesn't apply here directly, is the state has different laws and interpretations of felony murder. And the man's presence at that location when the death occurred because he had committed a felony "in the past" doesn't necessarily count as felony in the PRESENT when the death occurred. It wasn't "during the commission" of his PAST felonies.

So it is stretch, and other people who DO CALL HIS PRESENCE to be a felony DO count this as murder.

What they could do is consider everyone in SF who ENABLED this man to be there could count as an ACCESSORY to felony, and thus contributed to felony murder by letting him here where a DEATH occurred, accidental or unintentional or not.

That's a HUGE stretch. But it could be argued IN SPIRIT, just the letter of the law can contradict that and get them off the hook which is what they use, the letter of the law to violate the SPIRIT of the law.

If he killed Kate while driving drunk he would have done big time in prison. Yet he can break the law by entering our nation illegally and processing a hand gun illegally and killing a innocent young women with the rest of her life ahead of her. To defend the decision of the jury is to be as cold and unthinking as a human can be. Maybe you should move to San Francisco, you would fit right in.

??? Rambunctious did you even read or understand my message? This can be argued as FELONY MURDER. I explained how. Read it again.

If you agree that either this man "was in process of committing a felony" or that the city officials who ENABLED him to commit an immigration violation are committing a FELONY, then ANY DEATH that occurs during the commission of a felony CAN BE CHARGED AS FELONY MURDER if that law applies in that state.

The question is does the actions of the city to enable him to to be there "count as a felony."

It's because I'm NOT in California I don't have say in how they interpret laws. They may not have "felony murder" as they do in Texas.

Rambunctious instead of blaming and yelling at me when I offered a possible avenue for legal argument,
why don't you help lobby the federal govt to look into this argument for felony murder?

Why yell at me if you can make this argument I offered?
If you believe in it, I spelled out the TERMS that could be researched and possible USED.

But just calling it murder isn't explaining what is argued as an "accident."

FELONY MURDER
is the term that can be applied to even an accidental unintended death caused during the commission of a felony.

That's what my message is describing.
Did you even read it before you reacted?