Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[paulitician]

In most of the cases, the parents were the one's responsible for the child being exposed to the guns that were used in the massacres. If not the parents, some other adult was involved.

We need to change our approach to firearms completely. No more just handing a child a gun. I don't care if it's about hunting or not. Teach them hunting when they're adults.

Oh no, no, no. Don't change my question for me. I know where the guns came from. What I asked is what parent openly gave a child a gun for a mass shooting. There's a big difference between a parent "giving" a child a gun and him stealing a gun.

Many adults in America provide their children with firearms. That's no secret. None of the kids who carried out massacres, could have done it without adults providing them the means. The firearms were accessible.

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

 

[paulitician]

And we haven't even begun to discuss how many children die from guns accidentally. Or kids committing suicide with guns. How and why are children accessing firearms so easily? What's going on?

How many kids have put themselves in a precarious situation (and yes, even died) because of the internet? Should we ban children from the internet too? After all, the internet provides valuable information, but it can also be used for deviant things.

See, now i am beginning to think you are a gun-obsessed nutter. Let's keep it simple. Stop giving kids guns. It's unwise and unnecessary.

Nobody is giving their kids guns. That's the point.

I've known many gun owners over the years. Like i said, i used to be a gun seller. And many gave their children firearms. They didn't think twice about it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And we haven't even begun to discuss how many children die from guns accidentally. Or kids committing suicide with guns. How and why are children accessing firearms so easily? What's going on?

How many kids have put themselves in a precarious situation (and yes, even died) because of the internet? Should we ban children from the internet too? After all, the internet provides valuable information, but it can also be used for deviant things.

See, now i am beginning to think you are a gun-obsessed nutter. Let's keep it simple. Stop giving kids guns. It's unwise and unnecessary.

Nobody is giving their kids guns. That's the point.

I've known many gun owners over the years. Like i said, i used to be a gun seller. And many gave their children firearms. They didn't think twice about it.

And apparently nothing happened, did it?

 

[paulitician]

In most of the cases, the parents were the one's responsible for the child being exposed to the guns that were used in the massacres. If not the parents, some other adult was involved.

We need to change our approach to firearms completely. No more just handing a child a gun. I don't care if it's about hunting or not. Teach them hunting when they're adults.

Oh no, no, no. Don't change my question for me. I know where the guns came from. What I asked is what parent openly gave a child a gun for a mass shooting. There's a big difference between a parent "giving" a child a gun and him stealing a gun.

Many adults in America provide their children with firearms. That's no secret. None of the kids who carried out massacres, could have done it without adults providing them the means. The firearms were accessible.

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Just because the gun wasn't in their name, doesn't mean they stole it. Sadly, many American parents give their kids guns all the time. Or they allow them access to their firearms.

 

[paulitician]

And we haven't even begun to discuss how many children die from guns accidentally. Or kids committing suicide with guns. How and why are children accessing firearms so easily? What's going on?

How many kids have put themselves in a precarious situation (and yes, even died) because of the internet? Should we ban children from the internet too? After all, the internet provides valuable information, but it can also be used for deviant things.

See, now i am beginning to think you are a gun-obsessed nutter. Let's keep it simple. Stop giving kids guns. It's unwise and unnecessary.

Nobody is giving their kids guns. That's the point.

I've known many gun owners over the years. Like i said, i used to be a gun seller. And many gave their children firearms. They didn't think twice about it.

And apparently nothing happened, did it?

Maybe, maybe not. Couldn't say for sure. But it's still absurd handing a child a firearm. Lots of other child activities out there that don't involve them possibly blowing their heads off. It's time for Americans to explore those instead.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh no, no, no. Don't change my question for me. I know where the guns came from. What I asked is what parent openly gave a child a gun for a mass shooting. There's a big difference between a parent "giving" a child a gun and him stealing a gun.

Many adults in America provide their children with firearms. That's no secret. None of the kids who carried out massacres, could have done it without adults providing them the means. The firearms were accessible.

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

You're deflecting. You know as well as I that none of these mass shootings had anything to do with a parent giving a maniac child a firearm. And as the other poster pointed out, if you're so worried about child deaths, why not petition to have swimming outlawed? As you stated, there are plenty of other different hobbies a child can be involved in, and way more children die from drowning than shootings.

 

[paulitician]

Many adults in America provide their children with firearms. That's no secret. None of the kids who carried out massacres, could have done it without adults providing them the means. The firearms were accessible.

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

You're deflecting. You know as well as I that none of these mass shootings had anything to do with a parent giving a maniac child a firearm. And as the other poster pointed out, if you're so worried about child deaths, why not petition to have swimming outlawed? As you stated, there are plenty of other different hobbies a child can be involved in, and way more children die from drowning than shootings.

Yes we know, swimming is the same as handing a child a firearm. Sure it is. See, that's why so many Americans are turning on gun owners. You guys give us all a bad name. You'll be the reason guns are eventually banned. But hey, i warned you. I tried to give you some of the other side's perspective. I did try.

 

[Ernie S.]

You're an adult, so go hunting. I'm talking about children. Wait till they're adults before handing them a firearm.

depends really

It shouldn't. Just wait till they're adults. Let them make their own decision on acquiring firearms.

mine did well

they still do well

I have 3 children. All have concealed carry permits as does my wife.

They're not children. They're adults. A kid shouldn't have a gun. Period, end of story.

Your opinion is the end of the story? Since when?

 

[Wry Catcher]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

So how will you get the criminals to abide by the registration laws? How will you keep the criminals from stealing firearms? How will you keep the criminals from obtaining firearms in other countries and walking across our southern border with them?

People who actually think they can get criminals to obey gun laws are terminally obtuse.

A criminal by definition does not obey the law. Does your argument apply to all laws too?

Some law breakers/criminals can be dissuaded when the consequence for violation is severe, and many of us obey speed limits and other easily committed crimes because of their cost when cited/arrested and convicted.

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

Gun owners support arrest and long prison sentences for gun criminals and felons caught with guns...how is that different than what MADD does genius?

A third DUI can be charged as a Felony

A first gun offense is a felony moron.

Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests

If you are a convicted felon you can never own a gun again....right?

Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime

As a felon you go into the federal data base for background checks already...right genius?

Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests

If you are caught with a gun you lose it...if you are a convicted criminal caught with a gun, you can be arrested on the spot....

So what exactly isn't the NRA doing to support all of these things that already happen....

Do you actually use your brain....?

I do have and use a brain, a very good one in fact. You, make up stuff to justify the opinions you've been indoctrinated to believe. Most of what you posted is untrue.

You have no understanding of what MADD has done and continues to do. They have lobbied the state legislatures across the nation into increasing penalties for drunk and impaired driving.

So have advocates for imposing sanctions for domestic abusers, not only do both groups lobby in state capitols, they sit in court in mass for sentencing hearings.

The NRA needs to protect the rights of legal gun owners, not object to every effort to reduce gun violence in America. By doing the latter, they put all lawful gun owners at risk.

 

[Ernie S.]

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

You're deflecting. You know as well as I that none of these mass shootings had anything to do with a parent giving a maniac child a firearm. And as the other poster pointed out, if you're so worried about child deaths, why not petition to have swimming outlawed? As you stated, there are plenty of other different hobbies a child can be involved in, and way more children die from drowning than shootings.

Yes we know, swimming is the same as handing a child a firearm. Sure it is. See, that's why so many Americans are turning on gun owners. You guys give us all a bad name. You'll be the reason guns are eventually banned. But hey, i warned you. I tried to give you some of the other side's perspective. I did try.

But you never answered a friggin question.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

You're deflecting. You know as well as I that none of these mass shootings had anything to do with a parent giving a maniac child a firearm. And as the other poster pointed out, if you're so worried about child deaths, why not petition to have swimming outlawed? As you stated, there are plenty of other different hobbies a child can be involved in, and way more children die from drowning than shootings.

Yes we know, swimming is the same as handing a child a firearm. Sure it is. See, that's why so many Americans are turning on gun owners. You guys give us all a bad name. You'll be the reason guns are eventually banned. But hey, i warned you. I tried to give you some of the other side's perspective. I did try.

The only way guns would ever be banned is if we voted in liberal Presidents for the next several elections and they stoked our Supreme Court with liberal judges. Other than that, guns are here to stay no matter who thinks what of it.

Yes, swimming is the same as guns if you look at it from the prospective of child deaths. You just don't like the truthfulness of the comparison. So perhaps child deaths is a red herring that you're using and you really don't care about child gun deaths. Maybe you just don't like guns.

 

[Ernie S.]

I do have and use a brain, a very good one in fact.

It's a shame you only use it for a paper weight.

 

[regent]

Many adults in America provide their children with firearms. That's no secret. None of the kids who carried out massacres, could have done it without adults providing them the means. The firearms were accessible.

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

You're deflecting. You know as well as I that none of these mass shootings had anything to do with a parent giving a maniac child a firearm. And as the other poster pointed out, if you're so worried about child deaths, why not petition to have swimming outlawed? As you stated, there are plenty of other different hobbies a child can be involved in, and way more children die from drowning than shootings.

So then are we worried about?

 

[paulitician]

I see a day when it will be illegal for a child to possess a firearm. That's where Society is headed. They can't smoke or drink alcohol. A child being allowed to possess a firearm will be considered shockingly bizarre to distant future generations.

 

[kaz]

It's not like you'll address the question in my OP to facilitate an actual discussion

That's another lie. When did you stop beating your wife?

LOL, it always cracks me up how effective liberals are a committing logical fallacies and how terrible you are at identifying them

Prove it! I've been attacked but no one has provided a rebuttal to my arguments.

This is, of course, nothing but poo as I have, personally, soundly rebutted every argument you've made.
Disagree?
There's a link in my sig that allows you to continue the argument you whined and pleaded for but ran away from once you got it.

I not only disagree, I find your arrogance hysterically funny - your are either challenged by reality or one of those liars who denies they ever put their hand in the cookie jar, even when shown a photo of them with their hand in the cookie jar.

Dude, shooter is completely correct. So far you've offere dick. Which Lakhota keeps begging for

 

[kaz]

I see a day when it will be illegal for a child to possess a firearm. That's where Society is headed. They can't smoke or drink alcohol. A child being allowed to possess a firearm will be considered shockingly bizarre to distant future generations.

Um..OK?

 

[kaz]

Let's try this again: a kid stealing their parents guns and the parents providing the weapons are two entirely different things. It seems to me the kids that learn about guns, use guns, and are respectful of guns are not the same kids that are shooting up the schools.

Most if not all of the kids who carried out massacres, were exposed to firearms by adults. Some didn't have to steal the guns used in the shootings. They were allowed access to them. In many cases, the adults gave them the firearms.

Okay, then I'm calling you out: which mass murder took place by a child where the parent gave them the firearm?

Look, get your child into a different hobby. One that doesn't involve him or her possibly blowing their head off. Lots of other activities out there for kids. Time to explore those. Keep the guns for the adults.

You're deflecting. You know as well as I that none of these mass shootings had anything to do with a parent giving a maniac child a firearm. And as the other poster pointed out, if you're so worried about child deaths, why not petition to have swimming outlawed? As you stated, there are plenty of other different hobbies a child can be involved in, and way more children die from drowning than shootings.

So then are we worried about?

Can you translate that sentence into English?

 

[kaz]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

So how will you get the criminals to abide by the registration laws? How will you keep the criminals from stealing firearms? How will you keep the criminals from obtaining firearms in other countries and walking across our southern border with them?

People who actually think they can get criminals to obey gun laws are terminally obtuse.

A criminal by definition does not obey the law. Does your argument apply to all laws too?

Some law breakers/criminals can be dissuaded when the consequence for violation is severe, and many of us obey speed limits and other easily committed crimes because of their cost when cited/arrested and convicted.

MADD has been an effective organization in reducing drunk driving. During my career in LE we saw a dozen or more new sanctions for DUI introduced in CA and signed by the Governors, including:

• Fines increased Dramatically
• Penalty Assessments Increased Dramatically
• License Suspensions and Revocations
• Jail Mandatory for a first conviction
• Longer Jail sentences for second and subsequent convictions
• A third DUI can be charged as a Felony
• Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests
• Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime
• A one year attendance in an alcohol treatment program (one night a week) paid for by the convicted driver
• Generally three years probation.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

MADD is a good model to keep in mind and a likely force if the gun owners, NRA and the other gun organizations won't begin to police themselves.

Gun owners support arrest and long prison sentences for gun criminals and felons caught with guns...how is that different than what MADD does genius?

A third DUI can be charged as a Felony

A first gun offense is a felony moron.

Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests

If you are a convicted felon you can never own a gun again....right?

Breathalyzers installed in registered vehicles on the driver's dime

As a felon you go into the federal data base for background checks already...right genius?

Vehicle Impounded on first and subsequent arrests

If you are caught with a gun you lose it...if you are a convicted criminal caught with a gun, you can be arrested on the spot....

So what exactly isn't the NRA doing to support all of these things that already happen....

Do you actually use your brain....?

I do have and use a brain, a very good one in fact. You, make up stuff to justify the opinions you've been indoctrinated to believe. Most of what you posted is untrue.

You have no understanding of what MADD has done and continues to do. They have lobbied the state legislatures across the nation into increasing penalties for drunk and impaired driving.

So have advocates for imposing sanctions for domestic abusers, not only do both groups lobby in state capitols, they sit in court in mass for sentencing hearings.

The NRA needs to protect the rights of legal gun owners, not object to every effort to reduce gun violence in America. By doing the latter, they put all lawful gun owners at risk.

Our laws harm legal gun owners, honest citizens, they do nothing to restrict criminals from owning guns. Then you say when the NRA fights to let us defend ourselves, they are causing the gun violence. You're just blaming the victim. How dare we defend ourselves! That is the problem! That's ridiculous, it's there Holmes. They are reacting to it. The NRA is a great organization. You claim you have a brain. Then you blame the victim. You're an oxymoron, or just a regular one

 

[jon_berzerk]

still no plan

--LOL

 

[kaz]

Teaching children where food comes from is not wrong. Teaching them to provide for themselves is not wrong either......Why do you focus on normal people......put more effort into the democrat inner cities where they have gang breeding grounds and where you actually have real violence......every day.....

You can do those things without handing a child a gun and teaching em to kill and maim Bambi. And like i said, i'm not coming down on hunters only. But hunters do hand children guns and teach them violence. It is what it is.

I think it's fine to teach them about hunting when they become adults. But handing them firearms so early in life just seems unwise and unnecessary. We live in very different times. We have to accept that.

Bambi is FOOD, dammit. I was taught gun safety and use, starting when I was 8 years old. I started hunting at 12.... got my first deer at 14. I've never shot a man not robbed a convenience store.
One of the most important lessons I ever learned was when my father showed me a deer he had shot in the head with a 12 gauge slug.
Everything above the eyes was gone. I saw optic nerves and half a brain.
I was 7 if I remember correctly. I learned the power of weapons and the reality of death. Real life was nothing like the westerns I watched on TV.
Growing up, there was always a rifle or shotgun by the back door. We shot food.

Killing and maiming Bambi is unwise and unnecessary nowadays. It only serves to teach the child ugly brutal violence. I'm fine with teaching them about hunting when they're adults. But for God's sake, stop handing guns to children.

Why is it unwise? I happen to like venison. It is necessary that I shoot a deer in order for me to eat venison.
Ugly brutal violence is all around us AND our kids. Guns don't cause violence. Violent people cause violence.
Toss violent people in prison for life for all I care but leave people who engage in a legal hobby and exercise their God given rights the fuck alone

You're an adult, so go hunting. I'm talking about children. Wait till they're adults before handing them a firearm.

That's ridiculous. You want to teach them to respect guns when they are young. I hunted after school in high school with friends. We respected guns.

Seriously, you watch too much TV and you take what you see WAY too seriously. Liberal talking heads know nothing about actual gun owners, you need to stop listening to them