Leftists - if you are trying to build a better world, why are you being so nasty about it?

[HappyJoy]

You're telling me this after a couple of the conservative mods banned me from another thread?

Anyway, I'm sure there are a lot of nice, friendly Catholics. However there is that Catholic League guy that looks like Archie Bunker and well...Catholics have a little pedophile problem too. There is no Utopia.

Catholic problem with pedophilia is no worse than any other church, it just has more money and therefore makes a better target for the plaintiff's injury attorneys.

Also, the media is anti-Catholic so that's another factor.

I beg to differ on that. There have been hundreds if not thousands of cases of molestation and high lievel cover ups. Blaming it on the media is no excuse.

No excuse given, I am very upset by what happened.

But the Catholic Church was never set up to be a law enforcement agency, or even cooperate with law enforcement.

The first impulse of a Catholic priest or bishop when he hears a priest has committed a sin is to forgive him and help cure him.

The Catholic Church was sending pedophile priests to rehabilitation where psychologists and spiritual guidance counselors would treat him and pray with him. Then they would declare the priest cured of pedophilia and he would be sent back into a parish.

Psychologists did not know then that sexual preferences cannot be "cured" -- a pedophile remains a pedophile regardless of treatment or prayer.

Help cure him? That didn't work out and many just covered it up. Is a priest above the law? Is it moral to not turn one in, move them to a new parish where they molest more children? That happened.

It was unknown then that pedophilia cannot be cured.

The psychologists said they could cure the pedophile priest with therapy, and then they would have spiritual guidance to fix the sin.

They were working with incorrect theories of how the human mind and soul works.

A Christian working with incorrect theories? When does that ever happen? Just kidding.

The Catholic Church broke the law is what they did. Raping boys is a crime. Hiding the crime is a crime.

 

[Blackrook]

Don't you realize that the biggest part of building a better world is that it be a place where people are nice to each other?

Ironically, this is the typical complaint against Christians and the Religious right.
Preaching negatively against people when the message is about peace and neighborly love.

Now the Liberal Left is doing this Blackrook
Preaching against others when the point is equal inclusion and not discriminating.

When the shoe is on the other foot....

I'm not going to defend evangelicals, they are not nice at all. Meeting one is always an ordeal because they've been taught that Catholicism is idolatry and that Catholics are going to hell.

 

[Blackrook]

Catholic problem with pedophilia is no worse than any other church, it just has more money and therefore makes a better target for the plaintiff's injury attorneys.

Also, the media is anti-Catholic so that's another factor.

I beg to differ on that. There have been hundreds if not thousands of cases of molestation and high lievel cover ups. Blaming it on the media is no excuse.

No excuse given, I am very upset by what happened.

But the Catholic Church was never set up to be a law enforcement agency, or even cooperate with law enforcement.

The first impulse of a Catholic priest or bishop when he hears a priest has committed a sin is to forgive him and help cure him.

The Catholic Church was sending pedophile priests to rehabilitation where psychologists and spiritual guidance counselors would treat him and pray with him. Then they would declare the priest cured of pedophilia and he would be sent back into a parish.

Psychologists did not know then that sexual preferences cannot be "cured" -- a pedophile remains a pedophile regardless of treatment or prayer.

Help cure him? That didn't work out and many just covered it up. Is a priest above the law? Is it moral to not turn one in, move them to a new parish where they molest more children? That happened.

It was unknown then that pedophilia cannot be cured.

The psychologists said they could cure the pedophile priest with therapy, and then they would have spiritual guidance to fix the sin.

They were working with incorrect theories of how the human mind and soul works.

A Christian working with incorrect theories? When does that ever happen? Just kidding.

The Catholic Church broke the law is what they did. Raping boys is a crime. Hiding the crime is a crime.

The Catholic Church has a long history of not turning in criminals when they confess their crimes. The Catholic Church has never set itself up to be a law enforcement agency.

 

[HappyJoy]

I beg to differ on that. There have been hundreds if not thousands of cases of molestation and high lievel cover ups. Blaming it on the media is no excuse.

No excuse given, I am very upset by what happened.

But the Catholic Church was never set up to be a law enforcement agency, or even cooperate with law enforcement.

The first impulse of a Catholic priest or bishop when he hears a priest has committed a sin is to forgive him and help cure him.

The Catholic Church was sending pedophile priests to rehabilitation where psychologists and spiritual guidance counselors would treat him and pray with him. Then they would declare the priest cured of pedophilia and he would be sent back into a parish.

Psychologists did not know then that sexual preferences cannot be "cured" -- a pedophile remains a pedophile regardless of treatment or prayer.

Help cure him? That didn't work out and many just covered it up. Is a priest above the law? Is it moral to not turn one in, move them to a new parish where they molest more children? That happened.

It was unknown then that pedophilia cannot be cured.

The psychologists said they could cure the pedophile priest with therapy, and then they would have spiritual guidance to fix the sin.

They were working with incorrect theories of how the human mind and soul works.

A Christian working with incorrect theories? When does that ever happen? Just kidding.

The Catholic Church broke the law is what they did. Raping boys is a crime. Hiding the crime is a crime.

The Catholic Church has a long history of not turning in criminals when they confess their crimes. The Catholic Church has never set itself up to be a law enforcement agency.

Nobody is asking them to be a law enforcement agency, only to follow the law and not endanger children who were the victims.

 

[Blackrook]

No excuse given, I am very upset by what happened.

But the Catholic Church was never set up to be a law enforcement agency, or even cooperate with law enforcement.

The first impulse of a Catholic priest or bishop when he hears a priest has committed a sin is to forgive him and help cure him.

The Catholic Church was sending pedophile priests to rehabilitation where psychologists and spiritual guidance counselors would treat him and pray with him. Then they would declare the priest cured of pedophilia and he would be sent back into a parish.

Psychologists did not know then that sexual preferences cannot be "cured" -- a pedophile remains a pedophile regardless of treatment or prayer.

Help cure him? That didn't work out and many just covered it up. Is a priest above the law? Is it moral to not turn one in, move them to a new parish where they molest more children? That happened.

It was unknown then that pedophilia cannot be cured.

The psychologists said they could cure the pedophile priest with therapy, and then they would have spiritual guidance to fix the sin.

They were working with incorrect theories of how the human mind and soul works.

A Christian working with incorrect theories? When does that ever happen? Just kidding.

The Catholic Church broke the law is what they did. Raping boys is a crime. Hiding the crime is a crime.

The Catholic Church has a long history of not turning in criminals when they confess their crimes. The Catholic Church has never set itself up to be a law enforcement agency.

Nobody is asking them to be a law enforcement agency, only to follow the law and not endanger children who were the victims.

I believe the current Pope is working on the problem.

But this thread is about the left, and how nasty they behave in their efforts to build a "better world."

Let us get back to the topic of this thread.

 

[HappyJoy]

Help cure him? That didn't work out and many just covered it up. Is a priest above the law? Is it moral to not turn one in, move them to a new parish where they molest more children? That happened.

It was unknown then that pedophilia cannot be cured.

The psychologists said they could cure the pedophile priest with therapy, and then they would have spiritual guidance to fix the sin.

They were working with incorrect theories of how the human mind and soul works.

A Christian working with incorrect theories? When does that ever happen? Just kidding.

The Catholic Church broke the law is what they did. Raping boys is a crime. Hiding the crime is a crime.

The Catholic Church has a long history of not turning in criminals when they confess their crimes. The Catholic Church has never set itself up to be a law enforcement agency.

Nobody is asking them to be a law enforcement agency, only to follow the law and not endanger children who were the victims.

I believe the current Pope is working on the problem.

But this thread is about the left, and how nasty they behave in their efforts to build a "better world."

Let us get back to the topic of this thread.

Ok, but you are the one who brought up the Catholic Church, I assume because you feel they act the exact opposite as what you perceive the left to be. I just wanted to put some realism to that. People, groups of people are not one dimensional. I've met many friendly conservatives and liberals. I've met some positively horrendous people who were kind to me as well as upstanding citizens who were complete assholes.

The left isn't "mean" anymore than the right. However, that doesn't mean each side doesn't have it's army of dickheads. Personally I think this board is over represented by the alt-right who are full of bigotry and racism and proud of it. I do not consider this board to be a representation of Conservatives at large though I do imagine there is a larger belief in racism on the right that I ascribe to tribalism. If you are standing in a group of people and they all kind of fit in your own gene pool then you are going to probably develop some racist tendencies. Where as liberals tend to relate better with different demographic groups. Not to say it's a perfect union, there are white liberals who in practice believe in diversity however have never experienced it in their own lives.

I see liberals as people looking out for people and wanting a sense of fairness in public policy, not necessarily to benefit themselves but everyone. That's where we are constantly accused of wanting "free stuff" for ourselves when in actuality it's coming out of our taxes too. I see Conservatives as people who are more interested in defending what they have and only who they are with little concern for the rights of others. Often times I see right wing politicians exploiting those feelings to divide people and instill fear of the 'other'. Whether that be by race, religion or other differences. And they do this by romanticizing a past that is long gone and never really existed in the first place for many Americans. I'm not interested in living Leave it to Beaver.

Anyway, it's late and that's probably all gibberish, I'm not even bothering to reread what I wrote. I'm sure I am over simplifying our differences and most likely you will see it differently, this is only my opinion and what I see.

 

[emilynghiem]

It was unknown then that pedophilia cannot be cured.
The psychologists said they could cure the pedophile priest with therapy, and then they would have spiritual guidance to fix the sin.
They were working with incorrect theories of how the human mind and soul works.
. . . .

I believe the current Pope is working on the problem.
But this thread is about the left, and how nasty they behave in their efforts to build a "better world."
Let us get back to the topic of this thread.

Dear Blackrook cc: HappyJoy

1. Pedophilia CAN be cured, but it can take longer than other disorders or addictions
due to the relapse rate. The person should not be putting other people at risk in the meantime,
but like other dangerous illnesses (such as Ebola) needs to be kept in quarantine for severe cases.

2. The deliverance and exorcism process CAN work effectively if performed properly.
The problem is if the priests aren't seeking help fully but hide the problem.
And if the priest providing the therapy doesn't work with a full team, but
tries to take on the authority individually, then it can fail and cause greater danger.

3. How this applies to building a "better world" (including Liberal Left and Christians and Catholics):
The spiritual healing and deliverance process is based on FORGIVENESS.
This removes obstacles including generational patterns and ills
that otherwise prevent the natural healing process that is normally the default.

So after forgiveness breaks the cycle of resentment, negative rejection and ill will,
then the MIND and BODY can heal themselves naturally again,
and as a result, RELATIONSHIPS can be restored and healing "in good faith"
and this RENEWS and REBUILDS society as this healing multiplies and replicates.

Do you want to know the secret to transforming ill will into good will again?
It's called agreeing to Forgive, and/or to ASK HELP to receive Forgiveness
where we are otherwise unable to forgive the unforgiveable.

It's all FREE for the asking,
the more we ask help to FORGIVE
the more BLESSINGS we receive.

That's the key. And the one thing that
fails more than anything, is not asking.

 

[JoeB131]

Don't you realize that the biggest part of building a better world is that it be a place where people are nice to each other?

I would like nothing better than to be having a nice calm discussion with a sensible conservative about Supply Side, Immigration Reform or Health care... I truly would. Heck, I might even be won over by some sensible conservative arguments.

Instead, your side nominated the Nazi Game Show Host and have decided that no matter how depraved his behavior, you will defend it, even going against your own principles...

So the party of National Defense is now the party of Russian Collusion.
The Party of Family Values is now the party of Paying Off Porn Stars.
The Party of Free Trade is now the party of Tarriffs
The party of less government is the party of throwing kids into camps.

But, no, no, the problem is that we are being mean to you and hurting your delicate little sensibilities... no, really!

 

[JoeB131]

In Catholic Church the priests are constantly telling us to be nice to people, and I noticed at my Catholic high school and Catholic law school that people really were nicer. The students were nicer, there wasn't any of that organized bullying saw at a secular elementary school. And the administration was nicer too, at the law school I missed some final exams for health reasons and they worked with me. At some secular law schools they would have just kicked me out.

Really? My experience with Catholic Education was that we had a bunch of psychotic nuns and priests who were all kind of crazy for lack of sex for years.. And frankly, i saw plenty of bullying in Catholic School... it was about one step from "Lord of the Flies".

That was my Catholic Experience. I couldn't run away from that shit fast enough.

 

[Mac1958]

Don't you realize that the biggest part of building a better world is that it be a place where people are nice to each other?

That goes both ways, and it appears both ends have lost the skill. Or the willingness. Or both.
.

 

[JoeB131]

That goes both ways, and it appears both ends have lost the skill. Or the willingness. Or both.

Yes, we totally need to talk nicely with people who throw children into concentration camps.