LESTER HOLT WAS WRONG ABOUT STOP AND FRISK - Wall Street Journal

There is no way to predict what the SCOTUS would do in a stop and frisk case; however if the stop and frisk is conducted within reasonable non-arbitrary guidelines it is at least possible that the Court may find they are not a violation of the Fourth Amendment. There is no absolute requirement that probable cause is needed for all searches and seizures. The United States Supreme Court ( SCOTUS) has already made certain limited exceptions to the Fourth Amendment's prohibitions against unreasonable searches and seizures. In these cases, probable cause is not required; instead, the SCOTUS allowed the use of a balancing test. Here is how one reputable source describes the balancing test:

“In general, searches and seizures usually require a warrant supported by probable cause. There are a few circumstances where law enforcement officers can conduct searches and seizures without a warrant, as long as the search and/or seizure is reasonable. Usually the reasonableness requirement is satisfied by the existence of probable cause.

“In the context of roadblocks and checkpoints, however, the Supreme Court has ruled that a balancing test is more appropriate for determining the reasonableness of a search or seizure than the probable cause standard. The balancing test outlined by the Supreme Court weighs the state’s interest in the objective of the roadblock against the effectiveness of the roadblock in achieving that objective and the intrusion of the roadblock on an individual’s privacy.”

Can the Police Set Up Roadblocks for Any Reason? - FindLaw

In the case of Michigan State Police v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444 (1990), The Supreme Court ruled that traffic stops were not necessarily a violation of the Fourth Amendment:

The rule that a search or seizure is unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment absent individualized suspicion of wrongdoing has limited exceptions. For example, this Court has upheld brief, suspicionless seizures at a fixed checkpoint designed to intercept illegal aliens, United States v. Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 543, and at a sobriety checkpoint aimed at removing drunk drivers from the road, Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz, 496 U. S. 444. The Court has also suggested that a similar roadblock to verify drivers' licenses and registrations would be permissible to serve a highway safety interest. Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U. S. 648, 663. However, the Court has never approved a checkpoint program whose primary purpose was to detect evidence of ordinary criminal wrongdoing. Pp. 37-40.

Michigan State Police v. Sitz 496 U.S. 444 (1990)

The traffic stops (or road blocks) must meet certain criteria to be considered constitutional. For example, at a minimum they must be set up by supervisory personnel; the public must be notified in advance of such stops; and the stops must be according to a specific pattern, that is all people are stopped or every third or fourth person is stopped (this is to prevent police from improperly profiling).

If the SCOTUS uses the same rationale in a stop and frisk case, they may rule such searches to be permissible. However, the States may still prohibit them. Eleven states have laws which prohibit road blocks, so even if the SCOTUS finds stop and frisk to be permissible under the Constitution, the States have the right to ban such activities.
 
There is no way to predict what the SCOTUS would do in a stop and frisk case; however if the stop and frisk is conducted within reasonable non-arbitrary guidelines it is at least possible that the Court may find they are not a violation of the Fourth Amendment. There is no absolute requirement that probable cause is needed for all searches and seizures. The United States Supreme Court ( SCOTUS) has already made certain limited exceptions to the Fourth Amendment's prohibitions against unreasonable searches and seizures. In these cases, probable cause is not required; instead, the SCOTUS allowed the use of a balancing test. Here is how one reputable source describes the balancing test:

“In general, searches and seizures usually require a warrant supported by probable cause. There are a few circumstances where law enforcement officers can conduct searches and seizures without a warrant, as long as the search and/or seizure is reasonable. Usually the reasonableness requirement is satisfied by the existence of probable cause.

“In the context of roadblocks and checkpoints, however, the Supreme Court has ruled that a balancing test is more appropriate for determining the reasonableness of a search or seizure than the probable cause standard. The balancing test outlined by the Supreme Court weighs the state’s interest in the objective of the roadblock against the effectiveness of the roadblock in achieving that objective and the intrusion of the roadblock on an individual’s privacy.”

Can the Police Set Up Roadblocks for Any Reason? - FindLaw

In the case of Michigan State Police v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444 (1990), The Supreme Court ruled that traffic stops were not necessarily a violation of the Fourth Amendment:

The rule that a search or seizure is unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment absent individualized suspicion of wrongdoing has limited exceptions. For example, this Court has upheld brief, suspicionless seizures at a fixed checkpoint designed to intercept illegal aliens, United States v. Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 543, and at a sobriety checkpoint aimed at removing drunk drivers from the road, Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz, 496 U. S. 444. The Court has also suggested that a similar roadblock to verify drivers' licenses and registrations would be permissible to serve a highway safety interest. Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U. S. 648, 663. However, the Court has never approved a checkpoint program whose primary purpose was to detect evidence of ordinary criminal wrongdoing. Pp. 37-40.

Michigan State Police v. Sitz 496 U.S. 444 (1990)

The traffic stops (or road blocks) must meet certain criteria to be considered constitutional. For example, at a minimum they must be set up by supervisory personnel; the public must be notified in advance of such stops; and the stops must be according to a specific pattern, that is all people are stopped or every third or fourth person is stopped (this is to prevent police from improperly profiling).

If the SCOTUS uses the same rationale in a stop and frisk case, they may rule such searches to be permissible. However, the States may still prohibit them. Eleven states have laws which prohibit road blocks, so even if the SCOTUS finds stop and frisk to be permissible under the Constitution, the States have the right to ban such activities.

The bottom line it appears is "state rights".
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

That's not the stop and frisk Holt referred to. Pay attention.
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

Anyway, to repeat myself again, stop and frisk wasn't ruled unconstitutional in New York, the practices of the NYC police department in carrying out stop and frisk were ruled unconstitutional. In essence, the way they carried out (the policies) stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional.
 
so your advocating more racist police tactics? who cares if its unconstitutional or not? Advocates against stop and frisk aren't retards who hide behind legal loopholes. There are real reasons why stop and frisk should be stopped and whether or not the judge who ruled it unconsitutional or not was biased against cops, isn't one of them and shouldn't matter. It is a distraction from the issue and couldn't be more of a non-answer. You would think with protests in every major city against racist police violence that suggesting a policy that was ruled was ruled racist and unconstiutional would be the last thing a major politician would tie himself too. Much less one who has already been accused of racism multiple times, for mutliple reasons.

I guess we can add the fact that Donald supports stop and frisk, to the long list of reasons of why donald trump is racist. Thanks to nothing but his own ignorant, undeducated, big mouth

Hillary Clinton doesn't give a shit about blacks and they will continue to get slaughtered in the inner cities under democratic control. Hillary Clinton is a racist of the worst kind - but I digress (like you did).

The main point here is Lester Holt made a factually incorrect statement in a presidential debate which clearly helps one side. If that incorrect statement was made against Clinton of course you wouldn't happy. Should moderators "fact check" during a debate when it's clear they can't do it properly? Of course not.
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

Supreme Court says it's fine. Terry.
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

Anyway, to repeat myself again, stop and frisk wasn't ruled unconstitutional in New York, the practices of the NYC police department in carrying out stop and frisk were ruled unconstitutional. In essence, the way they carried out (the policies) stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional.

You are wrong:

Trump said: "you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, Mayor Giuliani is here, worked very well in New York."

Trump is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department,

and Holt said "Stop-and-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York, because it largely singled out black and Hispanic young men."

Holt is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department.
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

Anyway, to repeat myself again, stop and frisk wasn't ruled unconstitutional in New York, the practices of the NYC police department in carrying out stop and frisk were ruled unconstitutional. In essence, the way they carried out (the policies) stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional.

You are wrong:

Trump said: "you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, Mayor Giuliani is here, worked very well in New York."

Trump is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department,

and Holt said "Stop-and-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York, because it largely singled out black and Hispanic young men."

Holt is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department.

..and with nothing but nervous laughter to respond with, Imperius loses the argument.
 
Holt was right. It was ruled unconstitutional.

The program doesn't work.

Stop and frisk was never ruled COMPLETELY unConstitutional. It's based on a favorable SupCt ruling from 1968 allowing police officers that power. The judge that issued the Injunction (and later removed for the decision) ruled only that the METHOD and WAYS it was implemented in NYC under Bloomberg were unconstitutional. If adequate restraint and lack of bias is shown -- it most certainly IS Constitutional.


One more resemblance between the current weasel, Lester Holt...and the former weasel,Candy Crowley



1. In the Obama-Romney debate, Crowley backed Obama's lie about 'terrorism.'

"At the October 16 debate during which she acted the role of partisan moderator, Crowley backed up the President’s claim that he called the attacks at Benghazi an act of terrorism. This threw Romney for a loop and made him second guess his assertion that Obama took weeks to definitively call the attacks terrorism. The segment made Romney look suddenly unsure of himself and hampered his performance that night.

But in fact, Crowley’s own news agency, CNN, had reported that Obama called the attacks at Benghazi terrorism “for the first time” only on September 20, nine days after the attacks."
CNN's Crowley Admits Obama Didn't Call Benghazi a Terror Attack - Breitbart





2. And, last night, Holt backed Bill's wife's lie that 'Stop and Frisk' had been declared unconstitutional.
Lester Holt Challenges Trump on Stop and Frisk: ‘It Was Ruled Unconstitutional’

"“Particular in his interference with regard to the unconstitutionality of a case called Terry v. Ohio,” Giuliani told this reporter. “I forgive Hillary Clinton for not understanding that stop-and-frisk was not held unconstitutional — only unconstitutional as applied by Michael Bloomberg and Ray Kelly [in NYC].... It was never held unconstitutional."
Rudy Giuliani Was Asked How Lester Holt Did During The Debate. He Didn't Hold Back.



"...Terry v. Ohio, a 1968 ruling by the Supreme Court, which held that stopping and frisking was constitutionally permissible under certain conditions."http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/n...ractice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html?_r=0





Bad enough for these low-lives of Liberal media supporting Democrats as a regular course of lying......


....but damn the RNC for not expecting it.
 
Guess what, if the NEXT mayor decides to use STOP AND FRISK, he legally CAN. I guess that doesn't make it unconstitutional.

Flush your amateur law degrees, you Atticus Finches.
I'm against Stop and Frisk as a Nanny State violation of 4th Amendment rights.

Even if a liberal court ruled it Constitutional, do we really want to give government that much power? What if President Hillary decides to ban guns? Should she be allowed to order every white man just to be sure they aren't carrying?

We need to be careful how we chip away at Constitutional rights for political purposes.
 
Guess what, if the NEXT mayor decides to use STOP AND FRISK, he legally CAN. I guess that doesn't make it unconstitutional.

Flush your amateur law degrees, you Atticus Finches.
I'm against Stop and Frisk as a Nanny State violation of 4th Amendment rights.

Even if a liberal court ruled it Constitutional, do we really want to give government that much power? What if President Hillary decides to ban guns? Should she be allowed to order every white man just to be sure they aren't carrying?

We need to be careful how we chip away at Constitutional rights for political purposes.

It should be used where murder is rampant. In neighborhoods that are 95% black, there won't be a disproportionate amount of black people stopped in those neighborhoods so that argument doesn't work.
 
It should be used where murder is rampant. In neighborhoods that are 95% black, there won't be a disproportionate amount of black people stopped in those neighborhoods so that argument doesn't work.
I disagree with the Liberal premise that it's okay to negate the Constitution in order to save lives. That's Hillary's logic to ban guns.
 
I'm sure his apology to Trump is forthcoming...:dunno:

Fact-Checking Lester Holt (WALL STREET JOURNAL)

We told you Tuesday that Donald Trump was right when he pushed back on debate moderator Lester Holt over “stop and frisk” policing. But the story deserves a more complete explanation, not least because the media are distorting the record.

Mr. Trump invoked stop and frisk as a way to “take the gun away from criminals” in high-crime areas and protect the innocent. That provoked Mr. Holt, who said that “stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York.” Mr. Trump then noted that the ruling in the case came from a “very against police judge” who later had the case taken away from her. Mrs. Clinton then echoed Mr. Holt.

Here’s what really happened. The federal judge in the stop-and-frisk case was Shira Scheindlin, a notorious police critic whose behavior got her taken off the case by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. The appellate court put it this way:


“Upon review of the record in these cases, we conclude that the District Judge ran afoul of the Code of Conduct for United States Judges . . . and that the appearance of impartiality surrounding this litigation was compromised by the District Judge’s improper application of the Court’s ‘related case rule’ . . . and by a series of media interviews and public statements purporting to respond publicly to criticism of the District Court.”

The court then remanded the case to another judge who would not present an appearance of bias against the police. In a follow-up opinion, the appellate judges cited a New Yorker interview with Judge Scheindlin that included a quote from a former law clerk saying “what you have to remember about the judge is that she thinks cops lie.”

This is an extraordinary rebuke by a higher court and raises doubts that the merits of her ruling would have held up on appeal. As Rudolph Giuliani makes clear nearby, the judge’s ruling of unconstitutionality applied only to stop and frisk as it was practiced in New York at the time. Such police search tactics have long been upheld by higher courts.

In the end, the clock ran out on Mayor Mike Bloomberg, and new Mayor Bill de Blasio chose not to appeal. We rate Mr. Trump’s claim true and unfairly second-guessed by a moderator who didn’t give the viewing public all the facts.
Journalist are like parrots repeating liberal talking points.

 
Without any further explanation, if I were one of those ill educated people who watched that debate, I could infer that stop and frisk as a practice was ruled unconstitutional not only New York but in America as a practice, not a matter of policy. Holt left that little detail out.
That was, indeed, the impression left by Holt.

That said, I'm still against it as a 4th Amendment issue.
 
What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

Holt is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department.
Isn't that what I just said?

Without any further explanation, if I were one of those ill educated people who watched that debate, I could infer that stop and frisk as a practice was ruled unconstitutional not only New York but in America as a practice, not a matter of policy. Holt left that little detail out.

I posted exactly what Holt said and he explicitly included that detail.
 
He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

Holt is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department.
Isn't that what I just said?

Without any further explanation, if I were one of those ill educated people who watched that debate, I could infer that stop and frisk as a practice was ruled unconstitutional not only New York but in America as a practice, not a matter of policy. Holt left that little detail out.

I posted exactly what Holt said and he explicitly included that detail.
I really don't care if you recited the Magna Carta, if you cite it in a certain way, it will have a different meaning altogether. He conveniently left the matter of policy out of that statement. He worded it in such a manner that would lead the viewer to believe that stop and frisk in America was ruled unconstitutional period.

I gather recognizing subtleties in speech is not one of your strong suits.
 
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What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

Anyway, to repeat myself again, stop and frisk wasn't ruled unconstitutional in New York, the practices of the NYC police department in carrying out stop and frisk were ruled unconstitutional. In essence, the way they carried out (the policies) stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional.

You are wrong:

Trump said: "you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, Mayor Giuliani is here, worked very well in New York."

Trump is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department,

and Holt said "Stop-and-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York, because it largely singled out black and Hispanic young men."

Holt is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department.

..and with nothing but nervous laughter to respond with, Imperius loses the argument.
Lol. Proclaiming victory without giving your opponent time to respond. Your arrogance betrays you.
 
The judge ruled it unconstitutional. The city protested. The protest was sent to a new judge by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. The new judge left the first judge's order stand. Meaning it was ruled unconstitutional.

Now, was that so hard?

Have you forgotten who you're talking to?


You might to look at TERRY VESUS OHIO, you legal geniuses.

Stop and frisk WAS NOT ruled unconstitutional. Please quote the EXACT verbiage in the written opinion of "FLOYD versus NEW YORK CITY" that states the Supreme Court rules S&F "UNCONSTIUTIONAL"?

DeBlasio decided to stop using it, he was not forced by it being deemed "UNCONSTIUTIONAL".

Yes it was. Stop it.
 
Let LL and Dean serve as examples of how the far left lies consistently and retaliates to factual rebuttals with namecalling.

What did Holt say that wasn't true?

He essentially implied that stop and frisk itself was ruled unconstitutional, when in fact it was only the way the NYC police carried it out that was ruled unconstitutional. Stop and frisk was never ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, or any court for that matter. That was very deceptive. When someone tells only half the truth, it is still a lie.

NY's stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional and that was the stop and frisk Trump referred to.

Anyway, to repeat myself again, stop and frisk wasn't ruled unconstitutional in New York, the practices of the NYC police department in carrying out stop and frisk were ruled unconstitutional. In essence, the way they carried out (the policies) stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional.

You are wrong:

Trump said: "you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, Mayor Giuliani is here, worked very well in New York."

Trump is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department,

and Holt said "Stop-and-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York, because it largely singled out black and Hispanic young men."

Holt is directly referencing the stop and frisk practices of the NY police department.

So the way Holt said it I'd assume that per what he said:"Stop-and-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York," SCOTUS ruling is ONLY for New York?
So it is OK for the other 49 states?
 

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