Let's Deal with Documented History For A Change

[amity1844]

Fair enough everyone?
...History Israel

An unsourced opinion piece blog by an entrepreneur, musician and writer, is hardly "documented history" is it?

While some of the links within are broken, is the one I posted in #3 any more fair? No body commented on it yet.

Brief History of of Palestine, Israel and the Israeli Palestinian Conflict (Arab-Israeli conflict, Middle East Conflict)

I disagree with considering the issue to be one of religion.
And what about this "second diaspora eventually." I never heard of that and would like to know more. What was the cause and where does he say this second diaspora went. Obviously I'm arguing that we know that the Jewish inhabitants converted but remained on the land up until 1948.
Your article slides right through 1700 years of non_jewish history in six paragraphs, like nothing much happened, and the rest is very Zionist-centric.

I like the article linked below just fine, I'm sure it was a collaborative project between Palestinians, Zionists and others, and its well-sourced, but a quick search would probably turn up a number that are better still:

History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MJB12741]

Nice to see a fair unbiased documented article.

Fair enough everyone?

History Israel

Documented editorial, you mean?

 

[aris2chat]

Fair enough everyone?

History Israel

Documented editorial, you mean?

>> He is a lifelong student of history and theology. He is the author of the recently published book, 'Jesus in the World: the First 600 Years.'<<

 

[P F Tinmore]

Neither of the two links posted mentioned that Palestine was created by international treaties and was defined by international borders. Also, Palestinians were the first legitimate citizens of Palestine.

 

[Sally]

Neither of the two links posted mentioned that Palestine was created by international treaties and was defined by international borders. Also, Palestinians were the first legitimate citizens of Palestine.

But it was the Jews who were called the Palestinians, and the Arabs were just called Arabs or Syrians. Tell us, Mr. Tinmore, why the Jerusalem Post was once called th Palestine Post and started by Jews and the Jews were the one representing the country at the 1940 World's Fair. Surely if the Arabs were the first legitimate citizens, they would have also taken part at the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Neither of the two links posted mentioned that Palestine was created by international treaties and was defined by international borders. Also, Palestinians were the first legitimate citizens of Palestine.

But it was the Jews who were called the Palestinians, and the Arabs were just called Arabs or Syrians. Tell us, Mr. Tinmore, why the Jerusalem Post was once called th Palestine Post and started by Jews and the Jews were the one representing the country at the 1940 World's Fair. Surely if the Arabs were the first legitimate citizens, they would have also taken part at the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair.

Jews were allowed to immigrate and become Palestinian citizens along with the native population.

 

[Sally]

Neither of the two links posted mentioned that Palestine was created by international treaties and was defined by international borders. Also, Palestinians were the first legitimate citizens of Palestine.

But it was the Jews who were called the Palestinians, and the Arabs were just called Arabs or Syrians. Tell us, Mr. Tinmore, why the Jerusalem Post was once called th Palestine Post and started by Jews and the Jews were the one representing the country at the 1940 World's Fair. Surely if the Arabs were the first legitimate citizens, they would have also taken part at the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair.

Jews were allowed to immigrate and become Palestinian citizens along with the native population.

There were Jews there all the time. Early visted to the area saw mainly Bedouins if they saw Arabs. It was when the European Jews finally came in and started industries, the Arabs flocked into the area from their poor surrounding countries for jobs. I am sure, Mr. Tinmore, that even you are aware of how many poor Hispanics cross the southern border years after year because their countries can't supply them with jobs that they hope to find here. It was the same situation with the poor Arabs. The Egyptian official the other year was smart enough to recognize the fact that so many of the Gazans originally came from Egypt, and that is why he said they should come back to Egypt.

 

[Indeependent]

I got population figures from UNSCOP Try to work with the crazy formatting. At the time Israel was declared there were 608,000 Jews, and 1,237,000 Arabs:

Jews: 608,000

Arabs: 1,237,000

Arab population more than double Jewish population.


Territory

Arab and other population

% Arab and other

Jewish population

% Jewish

Total population

Arab State 725,000 99% 10,000 1% 735,000
Jewish State 407,000 45% 498,000 55% 905,000
International 105,000 51% 100,000 49% 205,000
Total 1,237,000 67% 608,000 33% 1,845,000

Data from the Report of UNSCOP: 3 September 1947: CHAPTER 4: A COMMENTARY ON PARTITION

Then Pappe Smear's Myth video contains at least 1 piece of misinformation.
Hah! At LEAST 1?!

 

[amity1844]

Nice to see a fair unbiased documented article.



[

It is EXTREMELY biased. About 3/4 of the history of Palestine is dismissed in six short paragraphs? How stupid.

this will enlighten. This is pretty neutral and gives roughly equal weight to all periods and ethnicities:
History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[amity1844]

>> He is a lifelong student of history and theology. He is the author of the recently published book, 'Jesus in the World: the First 600 Years.'<<

then he needs to get in step with a more scholarly perspective.

 

[amity1844]

Then Pappe Smear's Myth video contains at least 1 piece of misinformation.
Hah! At LEAST 1?!

Pappe's info is from Israeli archives, mine isn't. different sources, different conclusions.

 

[irosie91]

Neither of the two links posted mentioned that Palestine was created by international treaties and was defined by international borders. Also, Palestinians were the first legitimate citizens of Palestine.

But it was the Jews who were called the Palestinians, and the Arabs were just called Arabs or Syrians. Tell us, Mr. Tinmore, why the Jerusalem Post was once called th Palestine Post and started by Jews and the Jews were the one representing the country at the 1940 World's Fair. Surely if the Arabs were the first legitimate citizens, they would have also taken part at the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair.

Jews were allowed to immigrate and become Palestinian citizens along with the native population.

tinnie---why do you lie? back then the word "PALESTINIAN' on government papers
was used only for jews Back then the word PALESTINIAN -----was defined as a jew
living in Palestine-------'arabs' was 'arabs' however ----all of this is a semantic quibble---
Still----anyone interested-----find a library that has been around long enough to have
old periodicals, books-----etc ------try the microfilm---and look for the word
"Palestinian" in 1910 it meant "jew living in Palestine" I have a strange habit---
when in old buildings-----I always like to look at any old book left lying around---including
old libraries. In context of ---say 1910----or so----I would say that the concept
PALESTINIAN CITIZEN did not even exist-----just as "US CITIZEN" did not exist
in 1740

 

[Challenger]

...>> He is a lifelong student of history and theology. He is the author of the recently published book, 'Jesus in the World: the First 600 Years.'<<

The author of a self-published book. I'm a life long student of history, but that doesn't make me an authority on any given historical subject, nor does it make an opinion piece documented history.

 

[P F Tinmore]

But it was the Jews who were called the Palestinians, and the Arabs were just called Arabs or Syrians. Tell us, Mr. Tinmore, why the Jerusalem Post was once called th Palestine Post and started by Jews and the Jews were the one representing the country at the 1940 World's Fair. Surely if the Arabs were the first legitimate citizens, they would have also taken part at the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair.

Jews were allowed to immigrate and become Palestinian citizens along with the native population.

tinnie---why do you lie? back then the word "PALESTINIAN' on government papers
was used only for jews Back then the word PALESTINIAN -----was defined as a jew
living in Palestine-------'arabs' was 'arabs' however ----all of this is a semantic quibble---
Still----anyone interested-----find a library that has been around long enough to have
old periodicals, books-----etc ------try the microfilm---and look for the word
"Palestinian" in 1910 it meant "jew living in Palestine" I have a strange habit---
when in old buildings-----I always like to look at any old book left lying around---including
old libraries. In context of ---say 1910----or so----I would say that the concept
PALESTINIAN CITIZEN did not even exist-----just as "US CITIZEN" did not exist
in 1740

The Treaty of Lausanne came into force on August 6, 1924. It stated that the Ottoman nationals who were "habitually residents" of what became Palestine "will become ipso facto" nationals of that state.

The first Palestine Citizenship Order was enacted by Britain on 24 July 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a Palestinian. Its first article defined a Palestinian as a "Turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of Palestine."

History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[irosie91]

Jews were allowed to immigrate and become Palestinian citizens along with the native population.

tinnie---why do you lie? back then the word "PALESTINIAN' on government papers
was used only for jews Back then the word PALESTINIAN -----was defined as a jew
living in Palestine-------'arabs' was 'arabs' however ----all of this is a semantic quibble---
Still----anyone interested-----find a library that has been around long enough to have
old periodicals, books-----etc ------try the microfilm---and look for the word
"Palestinian" in 1910 it meant "jew living in Palestine" I have a strange habit---
when in old buildings-----I always like to look at any old book left lying around---including
old libraries. In context of ---say 1910----or so----I would say that the concept
PALESTINIAN CITIZEN did not even exist-----just as "US CITIZEN" did not exist
in 1740

The Treaty of Lausanne came into force on August 6, 1924. It stated that the Ottoman nationals who were "habitually residents" of what became Palestine "will become ipso facto" nationals of that state.

The first Palestine Citizenship Order was enacted by Britain on 24 July 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a Palestinian. Its first article defined a Palestinian as a "Turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of Palestine."

History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that's nice----and THEN very likely because of arab nationalist pressure---the Brits
decided that the only persons to be designated "Palestinians" would be jews living
in Palestine------because muslims did not WANT to be so designated------uhm........
TOO JEWISH!!!! (Try not to cite wikki-----its silly)

 

[P F Tinmore]

tinnie---why do you lie? Back then the word "palestinian' on government papers
was used only for jews back then the word palestinian -----was defined as a jew
living in palestine-------'arabs' was 'arabs' however ----all of this is a semantic quibble---
still----anyone interested-----find a library that has been around long enough to have
old periodicals, books-----etc ------try the microfilm---and look for the word
"palestinian" in 1910 it meant "jew living in palestine" i have a strange habit---
when in old buildings-----i always like to look at any old book left lying around---including
old libraries. In context of ---say 1910----or so----i would say that the concept
palestinian citizen did not even exist-----just as "us citizen" did not exist
in 1740

the treaty of lausanne came into force on august 6, 1924. It stated that the ottoman nationals who were "habitually residents" of what became palestine "will become ipso facto" nationals of that state.

The first palestine citizenship order was enacted by britain on 24 july 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a palestinian. Its first article defined a palestinian as a "turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of palestine."

history of palestinian nationality - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that's nice----and then very likely because of arab nationalist pressure---the brits
decided that the only persons to be designated "palestinians" would be jews living
in palestine------because muslims did not want to be so designated------uhm........
Too jewish!!!! (try not to cite wikki-----its silly)

ok.

in international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, &#8220;the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.&#8221;5 as a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of palestine in order to define the piece of land on which palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held palestinian nationality.

The status of palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the treaty of lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the league of nations, the british government pointed out: &#8220;the ratification of the treaty of lausanne in aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of palestine.&#8221;123 and, thereafter, &#8220;palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.&#8221;124

drawing up the framework of nationality, article 30 of the treaty of lausanne stated:

&#8220;turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present treaty is detached from turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the state to which such territory is transferred.&#8221;​

the automatic, ipso facto, change from ottoman to palestinian nationality was dealt with in article 1, paragraph 1, of the citizenship order, which declared:

&#8220;turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of palestine upon the 1st day of august, 1925, shall become palestinian citizens.&#8221;​

http://bcrfj.revues.org/6405

 

[TimeForChange]

there is no such thing as a "Palestinian"
there never has been

 

[irosie91]

the treaty of lausanne came into force on august 6, 1924. It stated that the ottoman nationals who were "habitually residents" of what became palestine "will become ipso facto" nationals of that state.

The first palestine citizenship order was enacted by britain on 24 july 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a palestinian. Its first article defined a palestinian as a "turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of palestine."

history of palestinian nationality - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that's nice----and then very likely because of arab nationalist pressure---the brits
decided that the only persons to be designated "palestinians" would be jews living
in palestine------because muslims did not want to be so designated------uhm........
Too jewish!!!! (try not to cite wikki-----its silly)

ok.

in international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 as a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of palestine in order to define the piece of land on which palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held palestinian nationality.

The status of palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the treaty of lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the league of nations, the british government pointed out: “the ratification of the treaty of lausanne in aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of palestine.”123 and, thereafter, “palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

drawing up the framework of nationality, article 30 of the treaty of lausanne stated:

“turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present treaty is detached from turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the state to which such territory is transferred.”​

the automatic, ipso facto, change from ottoman to palestinian nationality was dealt with in article 1, paragraph 1, of the citizenship order, which declared:

“turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of palestine upon the 1st day of august, 1925, shall become palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

try again tinnie dear-----there was no STATE OF PALESTINE-----there was a
"PALESTINE MANDATE" ---nor were their "CITIZENS" thereof

BTW when was that "INTERNATIONAL LAW" that you cite enacted?

try to stop lying------you are making a fool of yourself. "Palestine" was a part of the
Ottoman empire. It was transferred to the CONTROL OF GREAT BRITAIN
Great Britian decided thereafter. Palestinian meant "a jew living in Palestine" not even
a "citizen" of Palestine -----just a jew living in MANDATE PALESTINE

 

[teddyearp]

An unsourced opinion piece blog by an entrepreneur, musician and writer, is hardly "documented history" is it?

While some of the links within are broken, is the one I posted in #3 any more fair? No body commented on it yet.

Brief History of of Palestine, Israel and the Israeli Palestinian Conflict (Arab-Israeli conflict, Middle East Conflict)

I disagree with considering the issue to be one of religion.
And what about this "second diaspora eventually." I never heard of that and would like to know more. What was the cause and where does he say this second diaspora went. Obviously I'm arguing that we know that the Jewish inhabitants converted but remained on the land up until 1948.
Your article slides right through 1700 years of non_jewish history in six paragraphs, like nothing much happened, and the rest is very Zionist-centric.

I like the article linked below just fine, I'm sure it was a collaborative project between Palestinians, Zionists and others, and its well-sourced, but a quick search would probably turn up a number that are better still:

History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And your article takes only two paragraphs to go from the Romans to the 1800's so it must be better.

 

[P F Tinmore]

that's nice----and then very likely because of arab nationalist pressure---the brits
decided that the only persons to be designated "palestinians" would be jews living
in palestine------because muslims did not want to be so designated------uhm........
Too jewish!!!! (try not to cite wikki-----its silly)

ok.

in international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 as a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of palestine in order to define the piece of land on which palestinian nationality was established. Determining borders will also help us identify the new nationalities of the inhabitants in the neighboring countries who were ottoman citizens as well. Such a determination will thus identify, by exclusion, those who held palestinian nationality.

The status of palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the treaty of lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the league of nations, the british government pointed out: “the ratification of the treaty of lausanne in aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of palestine.”123 and, thereafter, “palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

drawing up the framework of nationality, article 30 of the treaty of lausanne stated:

“turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present treaty is detached from turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the state to which such territory is transferred.”​

the automatic, ipso facto, change from ottoman to palestinian nationality was dealt with in article 1, paragraph 1, of the citizenship order, which declared:

“turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of palestine upon the 1st day of august, 1925, shall become palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

try again tinnie dear-----there was no STATE OF PALESTINE-----there was a
"PALESTINE MANDATE" ---nor were their "CITIZENS" thereof

BTW when was that "INTERNATIONAL LAW" that you cite enacted?

try to stop lying------you are making a fool of yourself. "Palestine" was a part of the
Ottoman empire. It was transferred to the CONTROL OF GREAT BRITAIN
Great Britian decided thereafter. Palestinian meant "a jew living in Palestine" not even
a "citizen" of Palestine -----just a jew living in MANDATE PALESTINE

The mandate was appointed to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advice. Palestine existed separate from the mandate.