Lets end the "pro-life" "pro-choice" bullshit shall we

[ClosedCaption]

Abortion somehow became a political issue. One where simply being for or against it automatically puts you into one of the "camps" Dem or Repub.

Lets be honest. No one "Likes" abortion and no one thinks a woman should have an abortion under any and all circumstances. There may be those types but they are the fringe.

The topic we should be discussing is Abortion is legal. Because its legal it is available legally and should be. Having something be legal while making it hard as hell to get is interfering with something that is legal for a reason that has nothing to do with legality.

Restricting access is about morals. Whats moral and whats legal are 2 diff things. While I understand how someone can see it as morally wrong I don't see how hiding or restricting or making hoops to jump through helps legally.

Its like someone hiding traffic lights because they don't like them. The result is accidents will happen because someone didn't like or agree with it.

So while you might not agree with the act of getting an abortion....making it harder, more painful etc does nothing to change the legality its just being a nuisance really.

This board has lost its ability to say "Con on one issue and Dem on another" now its either all or nothing and nothing is "all or nothing"

Talk about circular reasoning.

Just because it is legal does not mean it should be. If the world worked that way ot would have been wrong to fight against slavery, which was legal, and Jim Crow laws, because they were legal.

But. please, feel free to keep pretending you actually have an argument.

Great argument. Now would you like to discuss the differences or do you want to wave your flag and give everyone a goofy smile like you just did something?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The real problem is, that the federal government Statist lovers, want to make a blanket decision on behalf of everyone in the states. This is a state issue, not a federal government issue. The other issue, is that in a lot of cases, these types of issues end up under the umbrella of "subsidies". Which is morally abhorrent to many people. I do not want my tax dollars involved in the process at all.

But, i do find it an interesting twist in irony that abortion can muster up so much legality related issue from democrats, while gun control (an inalienable, constitutional right) doesn't meet the same standard level when speaking of legality.

 

[KevinWestern]

That's incredibly rare but it begs the question - Does anyone really believe that making it difficult to get a safe and legal abortion, or not allowing those women to abort -

It's incredibly rare for young girls 17-25 to get abortions because they're not ready to have a baby? Not saying you're wrong, but that's hard to believe.

If people care about the fetus, they would want that fetus to be wanted, loved, cared for, fed, educated.

I will say that right wing folks do want people to be loved, cared for, etc (we're all the same), however they generally have a different idea on how to deliver that. Just because you're against the gov't doing it doesn't mean you're against it all together.

 

[ClosedCaption]

How about we compare this to another legal activity, smoking. Most folks have no problem making smokers second class citizens, taxing the hell out of them and restricting areas where they can engage in this legal activity. So what's the problem making sure abortions are done safely by medical professionals who are fully equipped to handle any complication. You have no problem messing over smokers for the supposed safety of others, yet you advocate abortions be cheap and plentiful knowing it will destroy at least one life and could affect many more. Go figure.

The problem is that not even you agree with taxing and restricting the areas but you are advocating it as a solution when it goes against everything you believe in

Really, how so? All I did is contrast what you said against other socially accepted norms restricting legal activities. Care to elaborate?

By your constant hedging. Someone who didn't believe that would say "You're wrong" especially in a MB or debate setting but you continue to ask how. That's how I know. For instance if I called you a female you wouldn't ask how.

Its human nature.

 

[ClosedCaption]

CC.. I'm pro-choice on damn near everything. But I figured out a long time ago that because I support a right for these things to be individual decisions, doesn't mean that I LIKE it or even APPROVE of it..

As for the arg. about "not making it harder, because it's legal" ---- that's a diff story. I would expect that all the Women's Issues voters would WANT abortions to be in a safer and cleaner enviro.. But as you see in Texas right now --- EVEN LEGISLATING minimum standards for abortion clinics is an "unwanted intrusion" on "their access" to womens' services.

I don't mind making prostitution or drug access "a little harder". As long as one still has the choice to participate or not. So I see nothing wrong or inconsistent in restricting ACCESS to choices. For abortion that would include limits on late term or partial birth abortion, a waiting and counseling period, or standards for care.

If someone was to have a sudden urge to visit a Nevada brothel, I truly wouldn't mind if there was a billboard on the road coming in advocating chastity and marraige fidelity..

I actually agree with you here. If someone wants a prostitute they should be able to get one just don't legislate to make prostitution legal but before you get one someone shove a snake cam in your ass for shits and giggles. Same with abortion...but lets be honest they don't want to make it rare. They want to choke it off or make it uncomfortable as possible just because. I don't agree with that neither do I agree with making prostitution legal as long as you do it on a bed of nails

 

[Defiant1]

I think a lot of folks consider what's inside the female to be "human life", and therefore should be protected regardless of what the woman wants or does not want to do. I mean, there are good points on both sides of the equation.

Personally, I don't like abortion but can't quite make the leap to making that decision for someone else (and make it illegal). Two reasons for this are:

1.) if you make abortion illegal, people still will get them under considerably riskier circumstances
2.) who am I to tell a woman who was raped, and whose pregnancy poses a risk to health that she can't get an abortion. I just don't want to get in there, personally...

But I do think casual abortions (ie healthy mom who got pregnant in a non traumatic) should be difficult to get.

It comes down to 'chattel'

In the old days, a wife was considered the property of the man -- Chattel.

Slaves were chattel. IOW, property.

These days you can not hold a human being in chattel. Well, you can but you'll end up dying in prison like that guy in Cleveland. So it's not a smart move.

The argument comes down to this.... At what point is the fetus a Human Being?

Religious types thinks it's at the moment of inceptio,

dimocrap SCUM think it's not until the baby sticks its head of the mommy's Vag and cries "Mama".

And some more radical dimocrap scum aren't even convinced it's a human at that point.

We've all heard the stories of dimocrap scum murdering born-alive infants, throwing them in the garbage and letting them die there.

But hey, they're dimocraps. It's how they roll.

I don't subscribe to the 'instant human' status the religious right wants to award babies at conception either.

Mostly, I just hate dimocraps. Everything they stand for is sick, depraved, disgusting, corrupt, dishonest, Anti-American, racist, hateful -- Did I miss anything?

So if they're for something. I'm against it at first glance. And nothing has really changed my mind on this topic

dimocraps are never right. About anything. They're just too stupid

And they argue like certified imbecilic children

Especially funny coming from one who wants the state to control and force women to give birth. Same with not allowing women to buy birth control while allowing men to buy Viagra.

You were "against it at first glance" and never bothered to educate yourself since.

Oh, please educate us as to how medication for erectile dysfunction is in anyway analogous to birth control.

 

[The Rabbi]

Once a woman takes responsibility for getting pregnant, she is responsible for the baby inside her as well.

Yea, but as I brought up earlier there are many instances where the woman is not responsible for getting pregnant, like in situations where she was raped. Say a lady was raped and her pregnancy poses a grave danger to her health.

What then?

Life just sucks like that somehow.
But the baby didnt do anything wrong. Why should it die?

 

[Edgetho]

It comes down to 'chattel'

In the old days, a wife was considered the property of the man -- Chattel.

Slaves were chattel. IOW, property.

These days you can not hold a human being in chattel. Well, you can but you'll end up dying in prison like that guy in Cleveland. So it's not a smart move.

The argument comes down to this.... At what point is the fetus a Human Being?

Religious types thinks it's at the moment of inceptio,

dimocrap SCUM think it's not until the baby sticks its head of the mommy's Vag and cries "Mama".

And some more radical dimocrap scum aren't even convinced it's a human at that point.

We've all heard the stories of dimocrap scum murdering born-alive infants, throwing them in the garbage and letting them die there.

But hey, they're dimocraps. It's how they roll.

I don't subscribe to the 'instant human' status the religious right wants to award babies at conception either.

Mostly, I just hate dimocraps. Everything they stand for is sick, depraved, disgusting, corrupt, dishonest, Anti-American, racist, hateful -- Did I miss anything?

So if they're for something. I'm against it at first glance. And nothing has really changed my mind on this topic

dimocraps are never right. About anything. They're just too stupid

And they argue like certified imbecilic children

Especially funny coming from one who wants the state to control and force women to give birth. Same with not allowing women to buy birth control while allowing men to buy Viagra.

You were "against it at first glance" and never bothered to educate yourself since.

Oh, please educate us as to how medication for erectile dysfunction is in anyway analogous to birth control.

dimocraps, like the scumbags they are, believe that being pregnant is a disease.

Think I'm kidding. Think again

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Abortion somehow became a political issue. One where simply being for or against it automatically puts you into one of the "camps" Dem or Repub.

Lets be honest. No one "Likes" abortion and no one thinks a woman should have an abortion under any and all circumstances. There may be those types but they are the fringe.

The topic we should be discussing is Abortion is legal. Because its legal it is available legally and should be. Having something be legal while making it hard as hell to get is interfering with something that is legal for a reason that has nothing to do with legality.

Restricting access is about morals. Whats moral and whats legal are 2 diff things. While I understand how someone can see it as morally wrong I don't see how hiding or restricting or making hoops to jump through helps legally.

Its like someone hiding traffic lights because they don't like them. The result is accidents will happen because someone didn't like or agree with it.

So while you might not agree with the act of getting an abortion....making it harder, more painful etc does nothing to change the legality its just being a nuisance really.

This board has lost its ability to say "Con on one issue and Dem on another" now its either all or nothing and nothing is "all or nothing"

Talk about circular reasoning.

Just because it is legal does not mean it should be. If the world worked that way ot would have been wrong to fight against slavery, which was legal, and Jim Crow laws, because they were legal.

But. please, feel free to keep pretending you actually have an argument.

Great argument. Now would you like to discuss the differences or do you want to wave your flag and give everyone a goofy smile like you just did something?

I do, read my other posts. I just gave your argument more consideration than it deserves, and you still got upset.

 

[Edgetho]

^^parasite^^

Any questions?

Move along

 

[tinydancer]

Abortion somehow became a political issue. One where simply being for or against it automatically puts you into one of the "camps" Dem or Repub.

Lets be honest. No one "Likes" abortion and no one thinks a woman should have an abortion under any and all circumstances. There may be those types but they are the fringe.

The topic we should be discussing is Abortion is legal. Because its legal it is available legally and should be. Having something be legal while making it hard as hell to get is interfering with something that is legal for a reason that has nothing to do with legality.

Restricting access is about morals. Whats moral and whats legal are 2 diff things. While I understand how someone can see it as morally wrong I don't see how hiding or restricting or making hoops to jump through helps legally.

Its like someone hiding traffic lights because they don't like them. The result is accidents will happen because someone didn't like or agree with it.

So while you might not agree with the act of getting an abortion....making it harder, more painful etc does nothing to change the legality its just being a nuisance really.

This board has lost its ability to say "Con on one issue and Dem on another" now its either all or nothing and nothing is "all or nothing"

No one likes abortion?

Oh bite me. Kathleen Sebelius has built her life around abortion lobbyists.

She's the Tiller and Gosnell poster child of killing in the womb and well hells bells snipping their heads off if they have the audacity to exit the womb.

The woman is evil beyond and made her rise politically by her backing of every abortionist and pro abortionist in America.

Fuck her.

 

[Edgetho]

Dominant theory in the pro-abortion (aka; pro-choice) community....

A standard pro-abortion argument hinges on the premise that a baby inside his mom’s womb attacks her bodily integrity. The developing baby is seen in this light as an intruder, a parasite, a threat to the woman’s autonomy. From this perspective the pregnant woman is viewed as being occupied. The only way she can continue to exercise her interest in bodily integrity, the argument goes, is to be liberated through the termination and expulsion of the invader.

Children are parasites, huh dimocraps?

Being pregnant is a disease, huh dimocraps?

 

[OKTexas]

The problem is that not even you agree with taxing and restricting the areas but you are advocating it as a solution when it goes against everything you believe in

Really, how so? All I did is contrast what you said against other socially accepted norms restricting legal activities. Care to elaborate?

By your constant hedging. Someone who didn't believe that would say "You're wrong" especially in a MB or debate setting but you continue to ask how. That's how I know. For instance if I called you a female you wouldn't ask how.

Its human nature.

First the only beliefs I expressed is society is screwing over smokers and medical procedures should be done is safe, clean settings by professionals who are equipped to handle any complications that should arise. These beliefs were phrased to address the subject your raised, abortion and how restrictions on one is fully acceptable to the left, yet not so much on the other. All that and you still don't know what my personal beliefs on abortion are because I haven't said, but that didn't stop your assumptions, did it?

 

[flacaltenn]

CC.. I'm pro-choice on damn near everything. But I figured out a long time ago that because I support a right for these things to be individual decisions, doesn't mean that I LIKE it or even APPROVE of it..

As for the arg. about "not making it harder, because it's legal" ---- that's a diff story. I would expect that all the Women's Issues voters would WANT abortions to be in a safer and cleaner enviro.. But as you see in Texas right now --- EVEN LEGISLATING minimum standards for abortion clinics is an "unwanted intrusion" on "their access" to womens' services.

I don't mind making prostitution or drug access "a little harder". As long as one still has the choice to participate or not. So I see nothing wrong or inconsistent in restricting ACCESS to choices. For abortion that would include limits on late term or partial birth abortion, a waiting and counseling period, or standards for care.

If someone was to have a sudden urge to visit a Nevada brothel, I truly wouldn't mind if there was a billboard on the road coming in advocating chastity and marraige fidelity..

I actually agree with you here. If someone wants a prostitute they should be able to get one just don't legislate to make prostitution legal but before you get one someone shove a snake cam in your ass for shits and giggles. Same with abortion...but lets be honest they don't want to make it rare. They want to choke it off or make it uncomfortable as possible just because. I don't agree with that neither do I agree with making prostitution legal as long as you do it on a bed of nails

I detect an amount of unexpected bias on your part.. To SOME reasonable folks having to travel to Nevada to visit a brothel or to Colorado to smoke a doobie would be akin to doing it "on a bed of nails"..

And in the case of rabid abortion fans, the recent laws in Texas would ALSO be onerous and evil.. When in essence, they are no different than making sure the brothel operated under the proper liquor licensing and health inspections.

You are never gonna please the zealots. Govt shouldn't try. But govt SHOULD make certain that even life-damaging and crazy freedoms are practiced as humanely and safely as possible. If that means that you have to travel a hundred miles to get an safe and humane abortion, so be it.

 

[Edgetho]

Abortion somehow became a political issue. One where simply being for or against it automatically puts you into one of the "camps" Dem or Repub.

Lets be honest. No one "Likes" abortion and no one thinks a woman should have an abortion under any and all circumstances. There may be those types but they are the fringe.

The topic we should be discussing is Abortion is legal. Because its legal it is available legally and should be. Having something be legal while making it hard as hell to get is interfering with something that is legal for a reason that has nothing to do with legality.

Restricting access is about morals. Whats moral and whats legal are 2 diff things. While I understand how someone can see it as morally wrong I don't see how hiding or restricting or making hoops to jump through helps legally.

Its like someone hiding traffic lights because they don't like them. The result is accidents will happen because someone didn't like or agree with it.

So while you might not agree with the act of getting an abortion....making it harder, more painful etc does nothing to change the legality its just being a nuisance really.

This board has lost its ability to say "Con on one issue and Dem on another" now its either all or nothing and nothing is "all or nothing"

No one likes abortion?

Oh bite me. Kathleen has built her life around abortion lobbyists. Seriously fuck you.

I've been busy trying to have a life you know, garden, train my new pup rock on with my husband but damn you in hell over Sebelius.

She's the Tiller and Gosnell poster child of killing in the womb and well hells bells snipping their heads off if they have the audacity to exit the womb.

The woman is evil beyond and made her rise politically by her backing of every abortionist and pro abortionist in America.

Fuck her.

There ain't enough beer in the world to make that happen

The bitch was financed by Tiller The Baby Killer in her gubernatorial run in Kansas.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/a_vicepresident_for_abortion.html

Those positions are necessary for Democratic politicians to pass their party's pro-choice litmus test, but Sebelius' connection with abortion is more intimate. She is allied with the aggressive Kansas branch of Planned Parenthood in a bitter struggle with anti-abortion activist District Attorney Phill Kline. There is substantial evidence she has been involved in laundering abortion industry money for distribution to Kansas Democrats. Kansas is the fiercest state battleground for abortion wars, making Kathleen Sebelius the national pro-choice poster girl.

I hate dimocraps.

And so should the rest of the world.

There should be a bounty on them

 

[ClosedCaption]

Abortion somehow became a political issue. One where simply being for or against it automatically puts you into one of the "camps" Dem or Repub.

Lets be honest. No one "Likes" abortion and no one thinks a woman should have an abortion under any and all circumstances. There may be those types but they are the fringe.

The topic we should be discussing is Abortion is legal. Because its legal it is available legally and should be. Having something be legal while making it hard as hell to get is interfering with something that is legal for a reason that has nothing to do with legality.

Restricting access is about morals. Whats moral and whats legal are 2 diff things. While I understand how someone can see it as morally wrong I don't see how hiding or restricting or making hoops to jump through helps legally.

Its like someone hiding traffic lights because they don't like them. The result is accidents will happen because someone didn't like or agree with it.

So while you might not agree with the act of getting an abortion....making it harder, more painful etc does nothing to change the legality its just being a nuisance really.

This board has lost its ability to say "Con on one issue and Dem on another" now its either all or nothing and nothing is "all or nothing"

No one likes abortion?

Oh bite me. Kathleen has built her life around abortion lobbyists. Seriously fuck you.

And still no one likes it. Your lack of rebuttal shows it to be true

I've been busy trying to have a life you know, garden, train my new pup rock on with my husband but damn you in hell over Sebelius.

She's the Tiller and Gosnell poster child of killing in the womb and well hells bells snipping their heads off if they have the audacity to exit the womb.

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. You seem to be trying to illicit an emotional response. Being a woman that normal but you wont get an emotional response back.

The woman is evil beyond and made her rise politically by her backing of every abortionist and pro abortionist in America.

Fuck her.

Look at my Avi...Stop being weak

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't see how being prolife is bs.

Nor do I see how supporting the execution of an innocent unborn child is anything but being against life.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Abortion somehow became a political issue. One where simply being for or against it automatically puts you into one of the "camps" Dem or Repub.

Lets be honest. No one "Likes" abortion and no one thinks a woman should have an abortion under any and all circumstances. There may be those types but they are the fringe.

The topic we should be discussing is Abortion is legal. Because its legal it is available legally and should be. Having something be legal while making it hard as hell to get is interfering with something that is legal for a reason that has nothing to do with legality.

Restricting access is about morals. Whats moral and whats legal are 2 diff things. While I understand how someone can see it as morally wrong I don't see how hiding or restricting or making hoops to jump through helps legally.

Its like someone hiding traffic lights because they don't like them. The result is accidents will happen because someone didn't like or agree with it.

So while you might not agree with the act of getting an abortion....making it harder, more painful etc does nothing to change the legality its just being a nuisance really.

This board has lost its ability to say "Con on one issue and Dem on another" now its either all or nothing and nothing is "all or nothing"

I actually agree with a lot of this, and I am pro-choice. I agree the issue has been used by both political parties as a wedge issue and as means to manipulate voters, particularly women.

However, the Gosnell story that liberals and the MSM tried to bury, mortified me. If the liberal line about "It's a Women's Health Issue," means anything, abortion clinics need to be closely monitored. The doctors need to be properly credentialed, and the clinics need to be up to day surgical care standards.

Many women who get abortions are poor, minorities, often vulnerable, and uneducated. Gosnell and his ilk proved they can be easily abused. If it is truly about a woman's health, improve the care of standards of these clinics.

 

[ClosedCaption]

CC.. I'm pro-choice on damn near everything. But I figured out a long time ago that because I support a right for these things to be individual decisions, doesn't mean that I LIKE it or even APPROVE of it..

As for the arg. about "not making it harder, because it's legal" ---- that's a diff story. I would expect that all the Women's Issues voters would WANT abortions to be in a safer and cleaner enviro.. But as you see in Texas right now --- EVEN LEGISLATING minimum standards for abortion clinics is an "unwanted intrusion" on "their access" to womens' services.

I don't mind making prostitution or drug access "a little harder". As long as one still has the choice to participate or not. So I see nothing wrong or inconsistent in restricting ACCESS to choices. For abortion that would include limits on late term or partial birth abortion, a waiting and counseling period, or standards for care.

If someone was to have a sudden urge to visit a Nevada brothel, I truly wouldn't mind if there was a billboard on the road coming in advocating chastity and marraige fidelity..

I actually agree with you here. If someone wants a prostitute they should be able to get one just don't legislate to make prostitution legal but before you get one someone shove a snake cam in your ass for shits and giggles. Same with abortion...but lets be honest they don't want to make it rare. They want to choke it off or make it uncomfortable as possible just because. I don't agree with that neither do I agree with making prostitution legal as long as you do it on a bed of nails

I detect an amount of unexpected bias on your part.. To SOME reasonable folks having to travel to Nevada to visit a brothel or to Colorado to smoke a doobie would be akin to doing it "on a bed of nails"..

And in the case of rabid abortion fans, the recent laws in Texas would ALSO be onerous and evil.. When in essence, they are no different than making sure the brothel operated under the proper liquor licensing and health inspections.

You are never gonna please the zealots. Govt shouldn't try. But govt SHOULD make certain that even life-damaging and crazy freedoms are practiced as humanely and safely as possible. If that means that you have to travel a hundred miles to get an safe and humane abortion, so be it.

That's where we differ. Since abortions are sought by an overwhelming number of the poor putting the abortion providers 100 miles away is a checkmate situation. Poor have no money *click*, Need Money to travel *Check*, No money for both *Check and Mate*

When I speak about the bed of nails I'm referring to the transvaginal bullshit shoving probes in women just to make it uncomfortable.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I don't see how being prolife is bs.

Nor do I see how supporting the execution of an innocent unborn child is anything but being against life.

Try turning down the hyperbole to about a 3