Let's Talk About The Choke Hold

[FA_Q2]

...I grabbed a robber in London about 10 years ago with a seatbelt hold... Far more effective and far less dangerous...

One arm over the shoulder and one under arm and clasp them together. That ties up an arm as well and allows to have a strong grip without the need to choke him. If you are lying down you can entrap one of his legs as well and he is going no where. ....

I was wondering why, since they basically had his back, neither officer took a rear cross-wrist. Easy enough to put a man down from there, and with two of them no reason he would have gotten up (no neck-kneeling required).

I think a lot of cops fear subduing anyone atm - the media and the political hacks out there are looking for blood. You do NOT want to be caught doing anything wrong right now.

Of course, such leads to even worse outcomes and worse charges.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

...I grabbed a robber in London about 10 years ago with a seatbelt hold... Far more effective and far less dangerous...

One arm over the shoulder and one under arm and clasp them together. That ties up an arm as well and allows to have a strong grip without the need to choke him. If you are lying down you can entrap one of his legs as well and he is going no where. ....

I was wondering why, since they basically had his back, neither officer took a rear cross-wrist. Easy enough to put a man down from there, and with two of them no reason he would have gotten up (no neck-kneeling required).

I think one thing we have determined without a doubt is armchair quarterbacking sure is easy. And safer.

 

[pknopp]

...
He did not deserve to die unless ....

If you resist arrest, take a weapon from a police officer and fire it at him, you cannot reasonably expect any other outcome.

How far can a taser reach?

I keep seeing called a taser but it looks like a stun gun from the video. Those have a reach of 15 feet or so. Not exactly sure what specific piece of equipment this was.

Those aren't multi-use.

No, they are not. However, there was very little time between the officer firing his weapon and being fired at. In all likelihood it was an instantaneous reaction to having a weapon both pointed at him and then discharged. A perfectly reasonable action on the part of the officer.

Drunk drivers kill people.

This one was passed out in a parking lot at Wendy's.

But yes, they kill people. However, this guy had not. He did not deserve to die.


What gets me is that some fuckwit asshole decided to firebomb the Wendy's over this.

He did not deserve to die unless they couldn't tell if it was the taser or a gun but I don't see him grabbing for a gun but using the taser he was already holding.

What do you think would have happened had he tazed the cop? You just think he was going to walk away after that?

After taking one weapon from the cop had he managed to actually disabled one of them then it is likely he would have tried to kill them. And that time with their service weapon.

As Unkotare said, you remove a weapon from a cop and try and use it against him you are going to die - end of story. The cops are justified in that situation.

What if he had a tank? Or yet a bomber or a suit of invisibility?

.....

What if he was mighty mouse? I fail to see the point of any of those silly questions.

If you are going to ask what if's, we can go down that road many times. We are dealing with what is.

The police officer was in no danger but yet he shot a man twice in the back as he was running away.

Put your ass in his shoes in that moment and then say that. You're full of shit. The outcome of this situation was tragically unnecessary, but that's on him, not the police officer in this case.

He is at fault also but that shouldn't have been a death sentence.

That's on him. Nothing leading to his death had to happen that HE was not responsible for setting in motion. It is really quite sad that the guy died that night, but it is not right to blame the police officer in THIS case.

Then why is the officer out of a job and they are contemplating filing charges?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

He's be alive today of they were able to use a choke hold.

 

[pknopp]

He's be alive today of they were able to use a choke hold.

You can't use a choke hold on someone running away. If he was able to take a taser from an officer he wasn't going to allow him to choke him.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

He's be alive today of they were able to use a choke hold.

You can't use a choke hold on someone running away. If he was able to take a taser from an officer he wasn't going to allow him to choke him.

If that's not an option for cops, they don't use that tactical move to a choke hold. He's still be alive also had he not fired a taser, that he took from the cops. Dumb move by the perp.

 

[gipper]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

They used a choke hold on Floyd and he died. So, what makes you think a choke hold in this case would have been any different ?

 

[Indeependent]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

They used a choke hold on Floyd and he died. So, what makes you think a choke hold in this case would have been any different ?

What's the percentage of people dying while a police officer has them in a choke hold?

 

[gipper]

He's be alive today of they were able to use a choke hold.

You can't use a choke hold on someone running away. If he was able to take a taser from an officer he wasn't going to allow him to choke him.

If that's not an option for cops, they don't use that tactical move to a choke hold. He's still be alive also had he not fired a taser, that he took from the cops. Dumb move by the perp.

It was a dumb move by the drunken dude, but far more dumb to murder him. The cops had his identity and he wasn’t likely to get very far on foot. Call back up and apprehend him ALIVE.

Clearly the cop overreacted as they often do. Using deadly force was unnecessary.

 

[gipper]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

They used a choke hold on Floyd and he died. So, what makes you think a choke hold in this case would have been any different ?

What's the percentage of people dying while a police officer has them in a choke hold?

Don’t know. Do you?

Maybe you could practice it for 9 minutes and see if you make it.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

He's be alive today of they were able to use a choke hold.

You can't use a choke hold on someone running away. If he was able to take a taser from an officer he wasn't going to allow him to choke him.

If that's not an option for cops, they don't use that tactical move to a choke hold. He's still be alive also had he not fired a taser, that he took from the cops. Dumb move by the perp.

It was a dumb move by the drunken dude, but far more dumb to murder him. The cops had his identity and he wasn’t likely to get very far on foot. Call back up and apprehend him ALIVE.

Clearly the cop overreacted as they often do. Using deadly force was unnecessary.

I agree but they should have taken the guy down initially. They could have easily thumped him in the head with a baton to subdue him.

 

[ColtMadeMenEqual]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

Leftists WANT more dead black people. They don't care about those people, they care about using them for political advantage.

In the olden days a black guy who fought with cops certainly might get his ass kicked, but he came out of it alive, but today leftists insist that we hire cops were are incapable of taking care of themselves in a fight, and then handicap them even further.

Those cops shouldn't have needed a taser or a choke hold to subdue that man. The moment he starts fighting you punch him the kidney as hard as you can, and then you cuff him.

But of course, that would have been on video too and the cops would have been tarred and feathered for that. It's lose lose for cops right now.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It's like none of you saw that fight. Brooks took both cops down in seconds and shook them off like they were fleas. There was never a time when the cops had a chance to use a chokehold.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

He did not deserve to die unless they couldn't tell if it was the taser or a gun but I don't see him grabbing for a gun but using the taser he was already holding.

Why didn't he deserve to get shot even if they knew it was the Taser?

 

[Indeependent]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

They used a choke hold on Floyd and he died. So, what makes you think a choke hold in this case would have been any different ?

What's the percentage of people dying while a police officer has them in a choke hold?

Don’t know. Do you?

Maybe you could practice it for 9 minutes and see if you make it.

That's an ad hominem, not an answer.
I grew up in East New York which, I have been told by police who live in Nassau County and work there, is still a hell hole.
Their job must suck.

 

[Indeependent]

He did not deserve to die unless they couldn't tell if it was the taser or a gun but I don't see him grabbing for a gun but using the taser he was already holding.

Why didn't he deserve to get shot even if they knew it was the Taser?

Have we lowered the bar on killing dirt bags?
What is the milestone where we decide it's ok to shoot someone?
And yeah, if I was a pissed off cop, I would have wanted to shoot him.

 

[g5000]

...
He did not deserve to die unless ....

If you resist arrest, take a weapon from a police officer and fire it at him, you cannot reasonably expect any other outcome.

How far can a taser reach?

I keep seeing called a taser but it looks like a stun gun from the video. Those have a reach of 15 feet or so. Not exactly sure what specific piece of equipment this was.

Those aren't multi-use.

No, they are not. However, there was very little time between the officer firing his weapon and being fired at. In all likelihood it was an instantaneous reaction to having a weapon both pointed at him and then discharged. A perfectly reasonable action on the part of the officer.

Drunk drivers kill people.

This one was passed out in a parking lot at Wendy's.

But yes, they kill people. However, this guy had not. He did not deserve to die.


What gets me is that some fuckwit asshole decided to firebomb the Wendy's over this.

He did not deserve to die unless they couldn't tell if it was the taser or a gun but I don't see him grabbing for a gun but using the taser he was already holding.

What do you think would have happened had he tazed the cop? You just think he was going to walk away after that?

After taking one weapon from the cop had he managed to actually disabled one of them then it is likely he would have tried to kill them. And that time with their service weapon.

As Unkotare said, you remove a weapon from a cop and try and use it against him you are going to die - end of story. The cops are justified in that situation.

What if he had a tank? Or yet a bomber or a suit of invisibility?

.....

What if he was mighty mouse? I fail to see the point of any of those silly questions.

If you are going to ask what if's, we can go down that road many times. We are dealing with what is.

The police officer was in no danger but yet he shot a man twice in the back as he was running away.

I did not ask what ifs. YOU did. I pointed out that is is asinine to expect that a violent suspect trying to disable an officer is simply going to stop after he succeeds at doing so.

Well, he was running away. He was shot in the back.

 

[g5000]

Resist arrest, take a cops taser gun and fire that taser gun at the cop -- that forces the cop to make split second decisions about what type of force to use. In many situations, if a bad guy points a weapon at a cop, if the cop doesn't react instantly and bring down the bad guy, it results in a dead cop. File this under shit happen. It wasn't the cop's fault.

It does boil down to culpability. I have a lot of sympathy for the cop in this case. I put most of the blame on the violent drunk.

He did not deserve to die, though. But just because he didn't deserve to die does not mean the cop should hang. That would just compound the problem, not resolve it.

This is one of those tragedies in which no one is completely innocent or guilty.

 

[gipper]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

They used a choke hold on Floyd and he died. So, what makes you think a choke hold in this case would have been any different ?

What's the percentage of people dying while a police officer has them in a choke hold?

Don’t know. Do you?

Maybe you could practice it for 9 minutes and see if you make it.

That's an ad hominem, not an answer.
I grew up in East New York which, I have been told by police who live in Nassau County and work there, is still a hell hole.
Their job must suck.

Okay, but how does your post relate to cops using a knee on someone’s neck?

 

[Indeependent]

Another black guy was killed this past weekend.

The dude was drunk and passed out in his car in a Wendy's parking lot, blocking the drive-thru.

When the cops showed up, they spent 40 minutes dealing with him.

40 minutes. That's a long time to tie up two policemen.

The cops were very patient with this guy. And the guy was cooperative during that 40 minutes.

But the second a pair of handcuffs touched his wrists, the dude went crazy. The two cops spent the next several minutes struggling with this guy.

The cops were fit. And yet they could not get this guy under control. He got the better of them despite being drunk.

This is not a reflection on the cops. A maniac can take up to 5 people to subdue him. Especially if you don't allow them to use a choke hold.

If you watch the video of the fight, the cops refrained from using a choke hold on the dude, and he was able to not only get away, he was able to disarm them of their taser. It's just luck that is what they had in their hands for him to take and not a gun.

As I watched, I said to my son, "If they used a choke hold on him, that dude would be alive today."

My son hates the cops. He's had some run-ins with them.

But he saw my point.

I've never had an opinion of the choke hold. I know some people have been hurt by choke holds, and I know the rare person has been killed by the choke hold.

But that fight would have been over in seconds if those cops used it. And the dude would be alive.

He would be alive if he didn't put up a fight, too, but that's another discussion.

They used a choke hold on Floyd and he died. So, what makes you think a choke hold in this case would have been any different ?

What's the percentage of people dying while a police officer has them in a choke hold?

Don’t know. Do you?

Maybe you could practice it for 9 minutes and see if you make it.

That's an ad hominem, not an answer.
I grew up in East New York which, I have been told by police who live in Nassau County and work there, is still a hell hole.
Their job must suck.

Okay, but how does your post relate to cops using a knee on someone’s neck?

I'm not nearly acquainted with the technique to comment.
It seems there is a dichotomy over whether it's dangerous or not; everybody's an expert.