Lockdowns Did Not Work

[AzogtheDefiler]

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.

Because GW put us in Iraq, cost us $8trn with his stupid endless wars and we had the Great Recession because of him. If you believe Trump is worse you’re just being irrational. Trump haters have weak constitutions. They don’t hate his policies they hate his character. Cry me a river. I am so sick of our country becoming soft. The PC culture is ruining the US.

Total expenditure on Iraq and Afghanistan up to 2020 is 1.7 Trillion dollars. Every year it has been a fraction of the total defense budget and has declined rapidly over the past 5 years. In terms of total defense spending per year as a percentage of GDP, the United States spent more on defense during the peacetime of the 1980s than it has from 2000 to 2020. In the 1980s total defense spending averaged 6% of GDP. From 2000 through 2020, it has only averaged 3% to 4% of GDP.

Yeah it was a mistake to remain in Afghanistan. Should have blown it up and left. You care about lives you claim but not about soldiers overseas fighting other peoples wars. Hypocrite much?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Facts don't care about your feelings

How would you know? You claim you are immune, and chloroquine works. Enjoy fantasyland....

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Facts don't care about your feelings

How would you know? You claim you are immune, and chloroquine works. Enjoy fantasyland....

Both are facts. You live in fear. Coward.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Facts don't care about your feelings

How would you know? You claim you are immune, and chloroquine works. Enjoy fantasyland....

Both are facts. You live in fear. Coward.

Hahaha...see? Poor little idiot is willing to embarrass himself for Dear Leader....

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

If you think most Americans think we can, or should, do this for 3-5 years you're crazier than I thought.

The government threw a few bucks around to keep people afloat in the near term to minimize near term effect and they've minimized blowback as a result, and most people are not feeling the pain-yet. The government cannot do that for 3-5 years.

We'll see what "most americans" think in 6 months when the recession deepens, more people lose their jobs, even those that can work at home, when they're getting tossed out of their homes and realize that we havent stopped this anyhow.

Your analysis is so utterly flawed and without any consideration of secondary consequences or how this would unfold over that type of timespan that 'absurd' doesn't even come close.

Chaos, poverty and starvation will consume major portions if the globe effecting tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people. It is already happening 2-3 months in. You clearly have a pretty loose grip on reality if you think this won't get worse

Believe what you want, again. Honestly I don't care what your deranged logic is telling you, but I do know that it isn't even logic.

Hiroshima did it. Countries rebuilt. Lets do that again, but on purpose. Good grief.

Damn right on purpose. A purpose that saves MILLIONS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. About 1/3 of the workforce is not working. About the same number that were drafted during World War II and sent overseas to kill Germans and Japs. If the government can send 1/3 of the workforce overseas to kill Germans and Japs in the 1940s, in can pay 1/3 of the workforce to STAY HOME in the 2020s.

Fact, is, most people support what I believe doing and its what 99% of governments around the world are doing. Most people don't support what you believe doing and 99% of governments are not following what you think should be done.

Thread is open. Go and vote for your 5 year lockdown. LOL

Dumbass.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

If you think most Americans think we can, or should, do this for 3-5 years you're crazier than I thought.

The government threw a few bucks around to keep people afloat in the near term to minimize near term effect and they've minimized blowback as a result, and most people are not feeling the pain-yet. The government cannot do that for 3-5 years.

We'll see what "most americans" think in 6 months when the recession deepens, more people lose their jobs, even those that can work at home, when they're getting tossed out of their homes and realize that we havent stopped this anyhow.

Your analysis is so utterly flawed and without any consideration of secondary consequences or how this would unfold over that type of timespan that 'absurd' doesn't even come close.

Chaos, poverty and starvation will consume major portions if the globe effecting tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people. It is already happening 2-3 months in. You clearly have a pretty loose grip on reality if you think this won't get worse

Believe what you want, again. Honestly I don't care what your deranged logic is telling you, but I do know that it isn't even logic.

Hiroshima did it. Countries rebuilt. Lets do that again, but on purpose. Good grief.

Damn right on purpose. A purpose that saves MILLIONS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. About 1/3 of the workforce is not working. About the same number that were drafted during World War II and sent overseas to kill Germans and Japs. If the government can send 1/3 of the workforce overseas to kill Germans and Japs in the 1940s, in can pay 1/3 of the workforce to STAY HOME in the 2020s.

Fact, is, most people support what I believe doing and its what 99% of governments around the world are doing. Most people don't support what you believe doing and 99% of governments are not following what you think should be done.

You're a dumbass

Tens of thousands descend on beaches amid Southern California heat wave

Lifeguards in Huntington and Newport Beach say more than 50,000 people flocked to their beaches Friday.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Facts don't care about your feelings

How would you know? You claim you are immune, and chloroquine works. Enjoy fantasyland....

Both are facts. You live in fear. Coward.

Hahaha...see? Poor little idiot is willing to embarrass himself for Dear Leader....

If Trump said shut down for the rest of they year, I would never vote for him. I care about me. Not you, coward. Your answer was "I don't know". You don't know much. You're an idiot.

 

[Aletheia4u]

See The Video Youtube Banned Of California Doctors’ Exposing COVID-19 Hoax

Full 4/22/2020 press conference in Bakersfield California with Doctors Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi

banned.video

 

[Fueri]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

If you think most Americans think we can, or should, do this for 3-5 years you're crazier than I thought.

The government threw a few bucks around to keep people afloat in the near term to minimize near term effect and they've minimized blowback as a result, and most people are not feeling the pain-yet. The government cannot do that for 3-5 years.

We'll see what "most americans" think in 6 months when the recession deepens, more people lose their jobs, even those that can work at home, when they're getting tossed out of their homes and realize that we havent stopped this anyhow.

Your analysis is so utterly flawed and without any consideration of secondary consequences or how this would unfold over that type of timespan that 'absurd' doesn't even come close.

Chaos, poverty and starvation will consume major portions if the globe effecting tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people. It is already happening 2-3 months in. You clearly have a pretty loose grip on reality if you think this won't get worse

Believe what you want, again. Honestly I don't care what your deranged logic is telling you, but I do know that it isn't even logic.

Hiroshima did it. Countries rebuilt. Lets do that again, but on purpose. Good grief.

Damn right on purpose. A purpose that saves MILLIONS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. About 1/3 of the workforce is not working. About the same number that were drafted during World War II and sent overseas to kill Germans and Japs. If the government can send 1/3 of the workforce overseas to kill Germans and Japs in the 1940s, in can pay 1/3 of the workforce to STAY HOME in the 2020s.

Fact, is, most people support what I believe doing and its what 99% of governments around the world are doing. Most people don't support what you believe doing and 99% of governments are not following what you think should be done.

In the very near term they support it, again, because they've been thrown a near term bone to keep them afloat. Let's gauge that when you let them know THEY are also on the list to lose their jobs and everything they've worked their entire lives for and ending up in the bread line when that gravy train runs out, and then extrapolate that out 3-5 years when the finacial system has collapsed, demand has collapsed further and those with jobs are in the minoruty and even those people are taking pay cuts and unable to keep themselves afloat.

Let's toss the millions dead from starvation and thrown into poverty and maybe a war or some good old ethnic cleansing breaks out as millions more are starving and we'll see what that plan looks like at that point.

Countries and states are already reopening areas and, as people realize it can be done, it will continue. Thank heavens most of the world can do simple math and realize that despite the risks, we have to get our economies going again.

Carry on, as I'm sure you will. We'll continue to disagree, I have no doubt, so we're just going in circles at this point I think. Why you pulled me back into this discussion in any case I have no idea. If you thought you had something new with this Hiroshima epiphany you were sadly mistaken.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

If you think most Americans think we can, or should, do this for 3-5 years you're crazier than I thought.

The government threw a few bucks around to keep people afloat in the near term to minimize near term effect and they've minimized blowback as a result, and most people are not feeling the pain-yet. The government cannot do that for 3-5 years.

We'll see what "most americans" think in 6 months when the recession deepens, more people lose their jobs, even those that can work at home, when they're getting tossed out of their homes and realize that we havent stopped this anyhow.

Your analysis is so utterly flawed and without any consideration of secondary consequences or how this would unfold over that type of timespan that 'absurd' doesn't even come close.

Chaos, poverty and starvation will consume major portions if the globe effecting tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people. It is already happening 2-3 months in. You clearly have a pretty loose grip on reality if you think this won't get worse

Believe what you want, again. Honestly I don't care what your deranged logic is telling you, but I do know that it isn't even logic.

Hiroshima did it. Countries rebuilt. Lets do that again, but on purpose. Good grief.

Damn right on purpose. A purpose that saves MILLIONS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. About 1/3 of the workforce is not working. About the same number that were drafted during World War II and sent overseas to kill Germans and Japs. If the government can send 1/3 of the workforce overseas to kill Germans and Japs in the 1940s, in can pay 1/3 of the workforce to STAY HOME in the 2020s.

Fact, is, most people support what I believe doing and its what 99% of governments around the world are doing. Most people don't support what you believe doing and 99% of governments are not following what you think should be done.

In the very near term they support it, again, because they've been thrown a near term bone to keep them afloat. Let's gauge that when you let them know THEY are also on the list to lose their jobs and everything they've worked their entire lives for and ending up in the bread line when that gravy train runs out, and then extrapolate that out 3-5 years when the finacial system has collapsed, demand has collapsed further and those with jobs are in the minoruty and even those people are taking pay cuts and unable to keep themselves afloat.

Let's toss the millions dead from starvation and thrown into poverty and maybe a war or some good old ethnic cleansing breaks out as millions more are starving and we'll see what that plan looks like at that point.

Countries and states are already reopening areas and, as people realize it can be done, it will continue. Thank heavens most of the world can do simple math and realize that despite the risks, we have to get our economies going again.

Carry on, as I'm sure you will. We'll continue to disagree, I have no doubt, so we're just going in circles at this point I think. Why you pulled me back into this discussion in any case I have no idea. If you thought you had something new with this Hiroshima epiphany you were sadly mistaken.

They don't support it.

Tens of thousands descend on beaches amid Southern California heat wave

Lifeguards in Huntington and Newport Beach say more than 50,000 people flocked to their beaches Friday.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Dr Grump]

[QUOTE="U2Edge, post: 24534513, member: 39692".
[/QUOTE]

40% of Americans are obese, and underlying risk factor when considering COVID-19
Nearly 50% of Americans have hypertension or pre-hypertension, another underlying risk factor when considering COVID-19

The fact is, COVID-19 is a threat to most Americans and we still don't know all the long term health effects of contracting the illness.
[/QUOTE]


The problem with Azog, the almightly dollar is his king. He doesn't care who dies. He wants the country opened back up because money is more important to him than the health of some. And to put it bluntly, he gives the impression - and it is only impression - that if fat people with hypertension die, why's it his fault? They should have lead better lifestyles....shrug..

 

[WEATHER53]

Freedom >health obsessions

Are any hospital admissions nowdays anything other than Covid?
Are any deaths attributable to anything other than Covid?
Both answers appear
to be No or Rarely.

 

[Dana7360]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

You do understand that for it to be a correct study it would have to be done when the virus problem is over don't you?

You do understand that taking figures in the middle of the situation isn't solid science and isn't the way any reputable scientist would do things don't you?

When this is over all of the data will be available and then that study can happen.

However, my state has been shutdown. Our cases are decreasing. Same with NY. While states that aren't shut down are seeing an increase in cases.

I didn't click your ridiculous link. I'm sure it goes to a far right radical extremist conservative hate site that has nothing to do with intelligent and reputable science or scientists.

If you don't understand how reputable and honest studies are done, don't show all of cyberspace just how down right moronic you are. Just keep it to yourself. It gets old seeing you show all of cyberspace what a total moron you are.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

You do understand that for it to be a correct study it would have to be done when the virus problem is over don't you?

You do understand that taking figures in the middle of the situation isn't solid science and isn't the way any reputable scientist would do things don't you?

When this is over all of the data will be available and then that study can happen.

However, my state has been shutdown. Our cases are decreasing. Same with NY. While states that aren't shut down are seeing an increase in cases.

I didn't click your ridiculous link. I'm sure it goes to a far right radical extremist conservative hate site that has nothing to do with intelligent and reputable science or scientists.

If you don't understand how reputable and honest studies are done, don't show all of cyberspace just how down right moronic you are. Just keep it to yourself. It gets old seeing you show all of cyberspace what a total moron you are.

Take out NYC and then tell me about your case studies.

 

[U2Edge]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

Not the same. People were free to live and innovate. Sports were abundant and concerts. Family gatherings, etc. You want to shut all that down. That is extreme crazy talk to save those who are fat and unhealthy. Why can they not stay isolated and allow the rest of us to live?

40% of the American population is obese. Then there are those who are not obese who have other conditions. Bottom line, most of the population is NOT SAFE!

People can still live an innovate from home. In fact, 37% of the labor force is able to do their current job without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in "Essential Services". For the 1/3 of the labor force that is not working, they can be paid to stay at home, just like the government paid 1/3 of the labor force in the 1940s to go overseas and kill Germans and Japs.

Lockdown is necessary. The damage done is repairable. Innovation is actually happening more rapidly right now than at any time in the past 20 years. Bars, nightclubs, Church, concerts, sporting events, will have to wait maybe a few years while this passes on. All those things will eventually return though. The economy will evolve and change during this time as well. As a society, we will most likely be better off once we get through this pandemic.

#1) Link that most is not safe. LOL. 94% of deaths are to those who had at least one underlying condition.

#2) Really? Barber shops, gyms, NBA, NFL, NCAA sports, NHL, PGA, MLB --- you want to shut it all down for 5 years. Taxation would decline significantly and no more police and or fire. No more movies, sitcoms, etc. Concerts. You basically end the world to save a few people who would die anyway.

#3) Lockdown is necessary not to overwhelm the healthcare system. We have built up enough capacity to handle it.

#4) Your lack of logic is comical. I'll start the thread so people can mock you.

1. 40% of Americans are obese. That is JUST ONE underlying condition that puts people at greater risk for complications from covid-19. If you understand math, you'll realize more than 50% of Americans are at risk. 17% of the U.S. population, 56 million Americans, are age 65 and over.

2. You shut non-essential business down until the number of new cases is low enough to contain through contact tracing OR you develop a vaccine. IF that is 2 years or 3 years, you do what you have to do, because the pathogen threatens the health of everyone and threatens the economy too. Consumers won't be buying and spending time at these non-essential business's if they feel its not safe. No one wants to risk getting sick or dying just to go to a bar or football game.

3. Most of the people employed in these jobs at gyms, barber shops, sports venues don't make enough money to even pay federal tax. In any event they only account for 1/3 of the workforce. During World War II, the United States sent 1/3 of the labor force overseas to kill Germans and Japs for years. We can pay people to stay in their homes to win the war against coronavirus. In addition, during this lockdown, 60% of the labor force is still working, because 37% can work from home and 25% work in essential services. Your keeping 1/3 of the labor force off the job to save the lives of millions of people. Its more than worth and is the only way back to a healthy economy as well.

4. The lockdown is about limiting the spread of the virus so it can eventually be contained through contact tracing methods, or a vaccine is finally developed. Naturally you don't want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed, but the primary goal is defeating the pandemic, not just dealing with it.

5. Well, I guess that means your still in the 8th grade. Most 8th graders would not even engage in such behavior.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

Not the same. People were free to live and innovate. Sports were abundant and concerts. Family gatherings, etc. You want to shut all that down. That is extreme crazy talk to save those who are fat and unhealthy. Why can they not stay isolated and allow the rest of us to live?

40% of the American population is obese. Then there are those who are not obese who have other conditions. Bottom line, most of the population is NOT SAFE!

People can still live an innovate from home. In fact, 37% of the labor force is able to do their current job without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in "Essential Services". For the 1/3 of the labor force that is not working, they can be paid to stay at home, just like the government paid 1/3 of the labor force in the 1940s to go overseas and kill Germans and Japs.

Lockdown is necessary. The damage done is repairable. Innovation is actually happening more rapidly right now than at any time in the past 20 years. Bars, nightclubs, Church, concerts, sporting events, will have to wait maybe a few years while this passes on. All those things will eventually return though. The economy will evolve and change during this time as well. As a society, we will most likely be better off once we get through this pandemic.

#1) Link that most is not safe. LOL. 94% of deaths are to those who had at least one underlying condition.

#2) Really? Barber shops, gyms, NBA, NFL, NCAA sports, NHL, PGA, MLB --- you want to shut it all down for 5 years. Taxation would decline significantly and no more police and or fire. No more movies, sitcoms, etc. Concerts. You basically end the world to save a few people who would die anyway.

#3) Lockdown is necessary not to overwhelm the healthcare system. We have built up enough capacity to handle it.

#4) Your lack of logic is comical. I'll start the thread so people can mock you.

1. 40% of Americans are obese. That is JUST ONE underlying condition that puts people at greater risk for complications from covid-19. If you understand math, you'll realize more than 50% of Americans are at risk. 17% of the U.S. population, 56 million Americans, are age 65 and over.

2. You shut non-essential business down until the number of new cases is low enough to contain through contact tracing OR you develop a vaccine. IF that is 2 years or 3 years, you do what you have to do, because the pathogen threatens the health of everyone and threatens the economy too. Consumers won't be buying and spending time at these non-essential business's if they feel its not safe. No one wants to risk getting sick or dying just to go to a bar or football game.

3. Most of the people employed in these jobs at gyms, barber shops, sports venues don't make enough money to even pay federal tax. In any event they only account for 1/3 of the workforce. During World War II, the United States sent 1/3 of the labor force overseas to kill Germans and Japs for years. We can pay people to stay in their homes to win the war against coronavirus. In addition, during this lockdown, 60% of the labor force is still working, because 37% can work from home and 25% work in essential services. Your keeping 1/3 of the labor force off the job to save the lives of millions of people. Its more than worth and is the only way back to a healthy economy as well.

4. The lockdown is about limiting the spread of the virus so it can eventually be contained through contact tracing methods, or a vaccine is finally developed. Naturally you don't want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed, but the primary goal is defeating the pandemic, not just dealing with it.

5. Well, I guess that means your still in the 8th grade. Most 8th graders would not even engage in such behavior.

1) and? Not one expert model has the death rate above 2.2mil. You’re spinning your wheels.

2) Take out NYC and this virus is a typical flu. NYC handled this poorly. Why? We don’t know.

3) Lack of business acumen. People who own gyms and barber shops do very well. Take a business class. Your WW2 comparison is stupid.

4) Why would you limit a spread of a virus in Utah where they have fewer than 1k cases? Country can open up sans NYC.

5) I wish. It would mean I was very young. You don’t know much about the world, have zero business acumen and don’t understand math. Take an online business class since you’re home.

 

[U2Edge]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Isolated for how long? 5 years? There would be anarchy. 5 years LMAO!!!! You are medically insane. Economic damage is devastating not "bad". If old people are in nursing homes how many years do they have left to live? Link that "vast" majority support the lockdown and will that be the case if it lasts five years.

Start a new thread with a 5-year lockdown and see how many on this board agree with you. Living in isolation is not living, it is a pseudo prison sentence. You want to punish 99% to save 1%. Crazy. Why would you get "no" customers? I bet restaurants and bars would be jammed.

Most people on this board are Trumpers who would continue supporting Trump if he raped a teenage girl on live TV.

The United States is the wealthiest country in the world and can take the hit, in order to save lives. People are not going to go to movies, concerts, Church, bars, nightclubs, sporting events, if they feel it is not SAFE and will get them sick or cost them their lives.

The only way out of this pandemic is lockdown until new cases are low enough to be managed through contact tracing. Or a vaccine is finally developed. Until then, you can open your business if you want, but the consumer is not going to give you any business.

#1) Bullshit. People will go. You won't because you're a coward. Open it up and see what happens.
#2) Wealthiest but for FIVE YEARS of no work or sports or concerts or movies, you will have a revolt.
#3) Vaccine. LOL why don't we shut the country down every flu season? 30-50k die annually then. This was overblown.
#4) The consumer will. This does not impact young people the way it impacts older people.

If you're saying people won't go anyway then open it up and see what happens. Start a thread that you want a FIVE YEAR lockdown and see if even one person agrees. Do you have a job or are you a student (I suspect) who lives with their parents?

1. Well, Georgia is the test case. Lets see how many people are at restaurants, bars, movie theaters, concerts, churches, and sporting events over the next several weeks. We'll know soon enough how much business is being done in "reopened Georgia".

2. 37% of the labor force can do their jobs without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in essential services and are still on the job. Its only about 1/3 of the labor force that is not at work. The government can pay them to stay home just as they paid the 1/3 of the labor force to go overseas and kill German and Japs in World War II.

3. We don't shut the country because of seasonal flu, because we have a vaccine that can prevent it from killing people. The problem is that only 50% of the country gets their vaccine shots. If everyone did, you could reduce seasonal flu deaths by 90%. Seasonal flu is less deadly and less transmissible than coronavirus. Seasonal Flu and coronavirus are not comparable at all.

4. Anyone with an underlying health condition can be impacted by the disease. If they are not impacted by the disease, they can help spread the disease and allow to kill other people. The coronavirus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. In this case, that oxygen comes from un-isolated people.

Georgia is already following your experiment of opening up. We'll see how many concerts, sporting events, packed bars, clubs, and other places they have over the next month.

#1) Let's see. I bet people will flock to bars and restaurants and movies.

#2) 37%....oooo so 3.7 out of 10 people. That is fucking terrible. What do you do for work? I can do my job remotely but not nearly as well as when I am out and about.

#3) Vaccine only protects 45% of people. What about the other 55%? And still 30-50k die annually.

#4) Then those people may remain isolated. No one is forcing those at risk and or scared to go out.

You want to close the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA and NCAA sports for 5 years!!! LOL

Georgia is starting to open up. We'll know by June how well business did under these conditions.

37% of people being able to do their job from home is amazing. You then add in the 20 to 25% who work in essential services outside the home and you have over 60% of the labor force working.

Vaccine's protect the vast majority of people. The 40 thousand people that die annually from seasonal flu in most cases never got the flu shot. If everyone got the flu shot you could reduce seasonal flu deaths by 90%.

The economy will only fully re-open when the CONSUMER feels SAFE. The CONSUMER decides whether a business survives or not.

 

[Flopper]

In the US, achieving herd immunity would cost the lives of millions of people.

You've clearly bought into the fearmongering and lies from the crooks behind this who are using it as a pretext for numerous agendas.

Do the math. For herd immunity, 7 to 9 million deaths with no undiscovered case and 3.5 to 4.5 million with 50% of the population asymptomatic. So yes herd immunity could certainly cost us millions of lives. In just 8 weeks we had 50,000 deaths and the country has been shutdown over half that time.

7-9 million deaths? You are making a lot of assumptions.

I was assuming 60% to 80% infection rate is required to make the herd immune, our efforts to isolate people from each other is not very effective, and the number of asymptomatic cases are close to the low estimate. However, as Trump might say, I have a hunch it will be closer to a million because I believe the isolation steps being taken by businesses and social distancing will work fairly well, even if we all go back to work.

I think most people are thinking in much to short a term with this virus. I don't believe we will attain a sufficient high level of immunity to knock out the virus, with or without a vaccine for at least 3 years probably longer.

 

[U2Edge]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

If you think most Americans think we can, or should, do this for 3-5 years you're crazier than I thought.

The government threw a few bucks around to keep people afloat in the near term to minimize near term effect and they've minimized blowback as a result, and most people are not feeling the pain-yet. The government cannot do that for 3-5 years.

We'll see what "most americans" think in 6 months when the recession deepens, more people lose their jobs, even those that can work at home, when they're getting tossed out of their homes and realize that we havent stopped this anyhow.

Your analysis is so utterly flawed and without any consideration of secondary consequences or how this would unfold over that type of timespan that 'absurd' doesn't even come close.

Chaos, poverty and starvation will consume major portions if the globe effecting tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people. It is already happening 2-3 months in. You clearly have a pretty loose grip on reality if you think this won't get worse

Believe what you want, again. Honestly I don't care what your deranged logic is telling you, but I do know that it isn't even logic.

Hiroshima did it. Countries rebuilt. Lets do that again, but on purpose. Good grief.

Damn right on purpose. A purpose that saves MILLIONS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. About 1/3 of the workforce is not working. About the same number that were drafted during World War II and sent overseas to kill Germans and Japs. If the government can send 1/3 of the workforce overseas to kill Germans and Japs in the 1940s, in can pay 1/3 of the workforce to STAY HOME in the 2020s.

Fact, is, most people support what I believe doing and its what 99% of governments around the world are doing. Most people don't support what you believe doing and 99% of governments are not following what you think should be done.

You would be killing millions if you forced isolation for FIVE YEARS!!! Again why do we not isolate during every flu season? NO ONE SUPPORTS A FIVE YEAR LOCKDOWN. Sans you. Since you're insane.

Seasonal flu can be overcome with the flu shot. Its less deadly, and less transmissible than coronavirus. Those three reasons are why we don't lock down for seasonal flu.

People will support the lockdown as long as it takes to make the environment safe for business. As long as the environment is NOT SAFE for business as usual, people will stay home regardless of who opens up.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Isolated for how long? 5 years? There would be anarchy. 5 years LMAO!!!! You are medically insane. Economic damage is devastating not "bad". If old people are in nursing homes how many years do they have left to live? Link that "vast" majority support the lockdown and will that be the case if it lasts five years.

Start a new thread with a 5-year lockdown and see how many on this board agree with you. Living in isolation is not living, it is a pseudo prison sentence. You want to punish 99% to save 1%. Crazy. Why would you get "no" customers? I bet restaurants and bars would be jammed.

Most people on this board are Trumpers who would continue supporting Trump if he raped a teenage girl on live TV.

The United States is the wealthiest country in the world and can take the hit, in order to save lives. People are not going to go to movies, concerts, Church, bars, nightclubs, sporting events, if they feel it is not SAFE and will get them sick or cost them their lives.

The only way out of this pandemic is lockdown until new cases are low enough to be managed through contact tracing. Or a vaccine is finally developed. Until then, you can open your business if you want, but the consumer is not going to give you any business.

#1) Bullshit. People will go. You won't because you're a coward. Open it up and see what happens.
#2) Wealthiest but for FIVE YEARS of no work or sports or concerts or movies, you will have a revolt.
#3) Vaccine. LOL why don't we shut the country down every flu season? 30-50k die annually then. This was overblown.
#4) The consumer will. This does not impact young people the way it impacts older people.

If you're saying people won't go anyway then open it up and see what happens. Start a thread that you want a FIVE YEAR lockdown and see if even one person agrees. Do you have a job or are you a student (I suspect) who lives with their parents?

1. Well, Georgia is the test case. Lets see how many people are at restaurants, bars, movie theaters, concerts, churches, and sporting events over the next several weeks. We'll know soon enough how much business is being done in "reopened Georgia".

2. 37% of the labor force can do their jobs without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in essential services and are still on the job. Its only about 1/3 of the labor force that is not at work. The government can pay them to stay home just as they paid the 1/3 of the labor force to go overseas and kill German and Japs in World War II.

3. We don't shut the country because of seasonal flu, because we have a vaccine that can prevent it from killing people. The problem is that only 50% of the country gets their vaccine shots. If everyone did, you could reduce seasonal flu deaths by 90%. Seasonal flu is less deadly and less transmissible than coronavirus. Seasonal Flu and coronavirus are not comparable at all.

4. Anyone with an underlying health condition can be impacted by the disease. If they are not impacted by the disease, they can help spread the disease and allow to kill other people. The coronavirus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. In this case, that oxygen comes from un-isolated people.

Georgia is already following your experiment of opening up. We'll see how many concerts, sporting events, packed bars, clubs, and other places they have over the next month.

#1) Let's see. I bet people will flock to bars and restaurants and movies.

#2) 37%....oooo so 3.7 out of 10 people. That is fucking terrible. What do you do for work? I can do my job remotely but not nearly as well as when I am out and about.

#3) Vaccine only protects 45% of people. What about the other 55%? And still 30-50k die annually.

#4) Then those people may remain isolated. No one is forcing those at risk and or scared to go out.

You want to close the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA and NCAA sports for 5 years!!! LOL

Georgia is starting to open up. We'll know by June how well business did under these conditions.

37% of people being able to do their job from home is amazing. You then add in the 20 to 25% who work in essential services outside the home and you have over 60% of the labor force working.

Vaccine's protect the vast majority of people. The 40 thousand people that die annually from seasonal flu in most cases never got the flu shot. If everyone got the flu shot you could reduce seasonal flu deaths by 90%.

The economy will only fully re-open when the CONSUMER feels SAFE. The CONSUMER decides whether a business survives or not.

Your lack of business acumen shows again. I can Do my job from home but not nearly as effectively. How do we do home appraisals? How do we do business appraisals? Usually you meet face to face to gauge aspects that are critical in M&A. How do kids play sports virtually? How do kids learn public speaking virtually? How do we get virtual haircuts? How do we have virtual weddings? You don’t know anything about life and are wasting my time. You’re the most uneducated person on this board and that is saying a lot.