Lockdowns Did Not Work

[JoeMoma]

Well, tell that to TAIWAN and South Korea. Only 429 people in TAIWAN have been infected. They have contained the virus and still have schools open as well as many business's. They keep the infection rate down by testing, tracking, contact tracing and finally isolation.

So TAIWAN did not do a Lockdown?

 

[U2Edge]

Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt. ...

there’s that. I do believe it helped the medical community out, but that reasoning is fast becoming obsolete with each passing day.

Exactly, and I don't see how locking down States, producing another 10 million or more unemployed, and causing thousands more business to go bankrupt, and States governments themselves going bankrupt, is going to help the nation.

We could probably do almost the same thing in this shelter-in-place lockdown, if we just went out and did our business in public, as long as we observe mitigation practices. Sheltering in-house is nothing but a mitigation practice. It does nothing to cure the virus it does nothing to end virus it does nothing but prolong the effects of the virus

FALSE! lockdowns deprive the virus of its resources or oxygen. The virus is like a fire, it needs oxygen to keep burning. In this case oxygen is people. So when you isolate healthy people from those that have the virus, the virus dies. The virus needs human hosts to survive. Deprive it of human hosts, it dies.

The damage to the economy is minimal given that 37% of the labor force can work from home and another 25% are involved in essential services. The economy will take a hit, but it can be rebuilt. Even Hiroshima that was nuked on August 6, 1945 was fully rebuilt and had a larger population by 1958. If Hiroshima can recover from being nuked, the United States can recover from 30 million people being jobless for a few years.

 

[U2Edge]

Well, tell that to TAIWAN and South Korea. Only 429 people in TAIWAN have been infected. They have contained the virus and still have schools open as well as many business's. They keep the infection rate down by testing, tracking, contact tracing and finally isolation.

So TAIWAN did not do a Lockdown?

They have done a partial lockdown, but did not need to do the full lockdown, because they instituted Travel bans and Travel restrictions on January 20, 2020 BEFORE they had any confirmed cases of coronavirus in the country. That was the main factor in keeping infections so low. Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million. TRUMP did not institute the same travel bans and restrictions in the United States until the last half of March. That allowed the virus to penetrate to deeply into the United States making extreme lockdowns the only response available.

When you PREVENT penetration into the country by the virus or keep it very low with travel bans and travel restrictions, then TESTING combined with contact tracing can take care of anything that managed to leak through. But you have to have the capacity for widespread TESTING and contact tracing to isolate new cases that leak through.

When your able to do that, then you can keep certain things open without risking community spread.

In order to reopen the economy, we have to get to where TAIWAN was back in January in terms of new cases per day. We also have to increase our testing and contact tracing capacity. Then we can be like TAIWAN is today. But because TRUMP failed in preventing deep penetration of the virus into the American population, we have to go through a long period of lockdown to reduce the spread to a manageable level.

 

[Fueri]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

 

[U2Edge]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people. They only have 429 infections and 6 deaths. They average right now one new infection per week. So when do you think EVERYONE in TAIWAN will finally get the virus?

 

[Dekster]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Oh my city opened the second those stimulus checks hit people's bank accounts.

 

[WEATHER53]

Lockdown wasn’t designed to work it’s just designed to be a lockdown to test how compliant Americans will be. 80% are fully frightened buyers of death is on the doorstep.
Also, Hurt Trump and the producers of the USA(which is really dumb because that’s who provides you moochers all your free shit) and get China some money by allowing them to short the market with advanced knowledge of what was coming.

Remember when dipshit chided that a justice would be hit hard and not see it coming? Kinda odd how that came true for everyone

 

[Billy_Bob]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people. They only have 429 infections and 6 deaths. They average right now one new infection per week. So when do you think EVERYONE in TAIWAN will finally get the virus?

I'm betting they have far more infections than is being reported. Taiwan is still pretty much locked down so it will spread very slowly. Everything is being censored by China so getting the truth will not happen.

 

[U2Edge]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

 

[DOTR]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people. They only have 429 infections and 6 deaths. They average right now one new infection per week. So when do you think EVERYONE in TAIWAN will finally get the virus?

Every person on earth will eventually get it. It’s part of the environment now...if what they are saying is true.

First coronavirus deaths reported in indigenous communities in the Amazon

“COVID-19 has fertile terrain to spread rapidly among the populations that live in Amazonia,” says president of prominent Brazilian rights group.

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[U2Edge]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people. They only have 429 infections and 6 deaths. They average right now one new infection per week. So when do you think EVERYONE in TAIWAN will finally get the virus?

I'm betting they have far more infections than is being reported. Taiwan is still pretty much locked down so it will spread very slowly. Everything is being censored by China so getting the truth will not happen.

TAIWAN is an independent country and ally of the United States. It is not subservient to CHINA in any way. TAIWAN is a democracy and took smart steps in the beginning to prevent infections. TAIWAN has the BEST anti-pandemic team in the world. Schools in TAIWAN are still open.

 

[U2Edge]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people. They only have 429 infections and 6 deaths. They average right now one new infection per week. So when do you think EVERYONE in TAIWAN will finally get the virus?

Every person on earth will eventually get it. It’s part of the environment now...if what they are saying is true.

First coronavirus deaths reported in indigenous communities in the Amazon

“COVID-19 has fertile terrain to spread rapidly among the populations that live in Amazonia,” says president of prominent Brazilian rights group.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Did everyone get the 1918 pandemic? NOPE

TAIWAN only has 429 infections. They have 24 million people and average 1 new infection per week. At that rate, in 100 years, less than 10,000 people in TAIWAN will get the infection. Over 99% of people in TAIWAN will live their entire lives without getting this virus.

 

[Fueri]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

 

[U2Edge]

You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.

The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...

Nope. It’s freedom!

Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?

That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.

I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you:

We do not yet know yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.

That should be my choice, not the choice of some scientists who seem to be more or less guessing.


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

We decide as a country together what is safe and legal. Your freedom ends where my begins. We don't tolerate law breakers like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh who take the law into their own hands and try to define FREEDOM their way and only their way.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million.

These numbers can not be verified. Taiwan is not recognized to be a country by China and everything coming out of Taiwan is approved by Chinese censors. Given their populace they should have, at minimum, 300,000 cases and deaths into 10,000's as other countries in the region do. What they are reporting, though China, is very unrealistic.

As for Trump not closing the US down, had he done that without even a death to justify it would have been suicide. Trump was skewered by Biden, Pelosie, Schumer, Coumo, Deblasio, among many others. They were encouraging everyone to get out and have fun... All was well... But even with what the democrat idiots did the majority of the nation did not burn up with this virus only the cities that were led by democrats and piss poor leadership did.

 

[U2Edge]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

 

[U2Edge]

Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million.

These numbers can not be verified. Taiwan is not recognized to be a country by China and everything coming out of Taiwan is approved by Chinese censors. Given their populace they should have, at minimum, 300,000 cases and deaths into 10,000's as other countries in the region do. What they are reporting, though China, is very unrealistic.

As for Trump not closing the US down, had he done that without even a death to justify it would have been suicide. Trump was skewered by Biden, Pelosie, Schumer, Coumo, Deblasio, among many others. They were encouraging everyone to get out and have fun... All was well... But even with what the democrat idiots did the majority of the nation did not burn up with this virus only the cities that were led by democrats and piss poor leadership did.

Sorry, but CHINA has no control over TAIWAN. TAIWAN has an advanced military, over 300,000 troops, with advanced combat aircraft, tanks, surface ships, Submarines, and ballistic missiles. They don't take any shit from China at all. They are a FREE DEMOCRACY and CHINA has no more control over TAIWAN than they do over TEXAS. THIS IS NOT HONG KONG. TAIWAN is an independent state and functions as an independent state, regardless of China's claims on TAIWAN. China can't censor ANYTHING coming out of TAIWAN.

In fact, it was TAIWAN's intelligence service's that were able to found out what was going on in China with the virus and why TAIWAN was so early in instituting travel bans and travel restrictions.


The most accurate and quality performance in fighting this pandemic has happened in TAIWAN. Every country in the world should follow TAIWAN's example.

 

[U2Edge]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

We might see some reduction in new cases at 25% but to stop the spread of the virus we will need an immunity of a majority of the population. However, most of what we are calling information is nothing educated guesses. We don't know how long immunity lasts. It could be as short as a few months or it could be a lifetime. We don't know what percent of the population being immune we stop the virus. We don't know of any effective treatment for Covid 19; that is unless you consider the Trump treatment, injecting yourself with disinfectants.

Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections. When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.

For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer. We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable. This is the cure being worse than the virus.

The economic damage from any lockdown is minimal. It can be repaired. But what you can't do, is bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19.

 

[sparky]

This entire lockdown premise is myopic

an 'effin' flea in the HC community knows there is more than one way to break the cycle of infection

~S~

 

[Billy_Bob]

Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million.

These numbers can not be verified. Taiwan is not recognized to be a country by China and everything coming out of Taiwan is approved by Chinese censors. Given their populace they should have, at minimum, 300,000 cases and deaths into 10,000's as other countries in the region do. What they are reporting, though China, is very unrealistic.

As for Trump not closing the US down, had he done that without even a death to justify it would have been suicide. Trump was skewered by Biden, Pelosie, Schumer, Coumo, Deblasio, among many others. They were encouraging everyone to get out and have fun... All was well... But even with what the democrat idiots did the majority of the nation did not burn up with this virus only the cities that were led by democrats and piss poor leadership did.

Sorry, but CHINA has no control over TAIWAN. TAIWAN has an advanced military, over 300,000 troops, with advanced combat aircraft, tanks, surface ships, Submarines, and ballistic missiles. They don't take any shit from China at all. They are a FREE DEMOCRACY and CHINA has no more control over TAIWAN than they do over TEXAS. THIS IS NOT HONG KONG. TAIWAN is an independent state and functions as an independent state, regardless of China's claims on TAIWAN. China can't censor ANYTHING coming out of TAIWAN.

In fact, it was TAIWAN's intelligence service's that were able to found out what was going on in China with the virus and why TAIWAN was so early in instituting travel bans and travel restrictions.


The most accurate and quality performance in fighting this pandemic has happened in TAIWAN. Every country in the world should follow TAIWAN's example.

And that's why Tawains ports have chinese ships and thier telecommunications are routed through china..... RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTT You do that and become a servent of China... Go for it... Idiot!