Lockdowns Did Not Work

[Pogo]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Nope, it's a strawman trying to prove a negative.

I have zero cases of coronavirus in my county with strict distancing/closing etc measures in place.

PROVE I would still have had zero without them.

/thread

Prove you would not have zero if you pranced around like you would normally.

I don't need to. I'm not the one claiming an absolute here.

Again --- /thread

 

[Flopper]

Packed...how many of those 75k do you interact with?

3,500 if I don't use the shitter...7,500 if I do.

3,500? Stop it.

Do you know how many people you are exposed to when you touch a door knob or a gas pump?

Do you care if you wear gloves?

No.

You get infected when you touch your eyes nose or mouth with virus on your hand.

That will happen if you are wearing gloves or not.

Then don't touch your eyes, nose, or mouth. And if you really need to, take of the gloves, wash your hands, touch it, then wash your hands again, put back your gloves, continue doing whatever you doing. Why is the problem keep up your hygiene?

That will work quite well for a virus or bacteria that is spread by contact such as Noravirus.
which passes directly from person to person and indirectly by touching contaminated objects or eating foods that's contaminated. However for coronaviruses which are spread primarily through the air, good personal hygiene is only part of the soulution.

 

[WEATHER53]

Wow!! FINALLY get what this overreactive hoax is all about
Imagine selling that 100 % of everyone will perish after you have been able to shut down America over a 0.1% death rate.
The answer-
The biggest liberal favorite-
Global Warming.

That’s next for us folks thanks to 80% of you being participatory, frightened to death imbeciles. We ain’t seen nothing compared to the True Draconian lockdown methods that the GW will put into play. Clueless President and governors looking over their shoulders as libbies clamour for their “rights” for a non GW planet and we all get forced into another centuries old method of dealing with a non existent crisis

Thank you all very little

 

[Flopper]

I want baseball to resume!!!!

I'll take ANY live sports other than Friday Night Smackdown and reruns. I'm ready to say okay fine, conduct extensive testing of players, refs, and camera/tech crew and play in front of empty bleachers. Sports fans are SO hungry now, they'll watch in record numbers!

Why can we not have fans there sitting three seats apart? Especially since the virus doesn't live all that well outdoors? Baseball should be a good sport to play this live?

Okay - We could try that. 1/3 capacity with social distancing - Face masks? That would look VERY weird on TV but I think everyone's pretty much used to it by now.

I'm first and foremost a college football fan. Get it together by September and I'll be a happy camper. But we should also have an abbreviated baseball season.

We maybe able to go football games in the fall. I certainly hope so because I have some season tickets and I'm looking forward to live football.
However, the chances are very good that the virus is seasonal which means it will start spreading rapidly in the fall after a somewhat quit summer. If the number of new cases and deaths are rising throughout the summer. Fall is likely to be a lot worse than this Spring.

 

[DrLove]

I want baseball to resume!!!!

I'll take ANY live sports other than Friday Night Smackdown and reruns. I'm ready to say okay fine, conduct extensive testing of players, refs, and camera/tech crew and play in front of empty bleachers. Sports fans are SO hungry now, they'll watch in record numbers!

Why can we not have fans there sitting three seats apart? Especially since the virus doesn't live all that well outdoors? Baseball should be a good sport to play this live?

Okay - We could try that. 1/3 capacity with social distancing - Face masks? That would look VERY weird on TV but I think everyone's pretty much used to it by now.

I'm first and foremost a college football fan. Get it together by September and I'll be a happy camper. But we should also have an abbreviated baseball season.

We maybe able to go football games in the fall. I certainly hope so because I have some season tickets and I'm looking forward to live football.
However, the chances are very good that the this virus is season which means it will start spreading rapidly in the fall after as somewhat quit summer. If the number of new cases and deaths are rising throughout the summer. Fall is likely to be a lot worse than this Spring.

My worry precisely. Renowned virologist Dr Trump seems to be the only doctor or scientist who thinks it may not come back.

 

[Flopper]

I want baseball to resume!!!!

I'll take ANY live sports other than Friday Night Smackdown and reruns. I'm ready to say okay fine, conduct extensive testing of players, refs, and camera/tech crew and play in front of empty bleachers. Sports fans are SO hungry now, they'll watch in record numbers!

Why can we not have fans there sitting three seats apart? Especially since the virus doesn't live all that well outdoors? Baseball should be a good sport to play this live?

Okay - We could try that. 1/3 capacity with social distancing - Face masks? That would look VERY weird on TV but I think everyone's pretty much used to it by now.

I'm first and foremost a college football fan. Get it together by September and I'll be a happy camper. But we should also have an abbreviated baseball season.

We maybe able to go football games in the fall. I certainly hope so because I have some season tickets and I'm looking forward to live football.
However, the chances are very good that the this virus is season which means it will start spreading rapidly in the fall after as somewhat quit summer. If the number of new cases and deaths are rising throughout the summer. Fall is likely to be a lot worse than this Spring.

My worry precisely. Renowned virologist Dr Trump seems to be the only doctor or scientist who thinks it may not come back.

Since it's a democratic hoax, it's season is politically based, it goes away in summer in time for the conventions and does not come back until after the election.

 

[jc456]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

Yes.

Nobody but you, is responsible for your own safety. If you disagree, you are placing too much faith in nanny state. In other words, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. If you don't want to go to restaurants, that's fine, you're free to chose so. But insisting that everyone else does it, because you don't wanna go, is idiotic.

The well being and safety of the American people is JOB ONE of the fucking government you ignoramus.

Types of Government [ushistory.org]

so hurting 26 million people is them helping? you have a very odd way of interpreting that.

 

[flack]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

Yes.

Nobody but you, is responsible for your own safety. If you disagree, you are placing too much faith in nanny state. In other words, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. If you don't want to go to restaurants, that's fine, you're free to chose so. But insisting that everyone else does it, because you don't wanna go, is idiotic.

The well being and safety of the American people is JOB ONE of the fucking government you ignoramus.

Types of Government [ushistory.org]

so hurting 26 million people is them helping? you have a very odd way of interpreting that.

It will be over 30 million Thursday.

 

[jc456]

I want baseball to resume!!!!

I'll take ANY live sports other than Friday Night Smackdown and reruns. I'm ready to say okay fine, conduct extensive testing of players, refs, and camera/tech crew and play in front of empty bleachers. Sports fans are SO hungry now, they'll watch in record numbers!

Why can we not have fans there sitting three seats apart? Especially since the virus doesn't live all that well outdoors? Baseball should be a good sport to play this live?

Okay - We could try that. 1/3 capacity with social distancing - Face masks? That would look VERY weird on TV but I think everyone's pretty much used to it by now.

I'm first and foremost a college football fan. Get it together by September and I'll be a happy camper. But we should also have an abbreviated baseball season.

We maybe able to go football games in the fall. I certainly hope so because I have some season tickets and I'm looking forward to live football.
However, the chances are very good that the this virus is season which means it will start spreading rapidly in the fall after as somewhat quit summer. If the number of new cases and deaths are rising throughout the summer. Fall is likely to be a lot worse than this Spring.

My worry precisely. Renowned virologist Dr Trump seems to be the only doctor or scientist who thinks it may not come back.

if it does, then at least a million won't get it, right?

 

[jc456]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

Yes.

Nobody but you, is responsible for your own safety. If you disagree, you are placing too much faith in nanny state. In other words, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. If you don't want to go to restaurants, that's fine, you're free to chose so. But insisting that everyone else does it, because you don't wanna go, is idiotic.

The well being and safety of the American people is JOB ONE of the fucking government you ignoramus.

Types of Government [ushistory.org]

so hurting 26 million people is them helping? you have a very odd way of interpreting that.

It will be over 30 million Thursday.

they don't care. they lost any respect I had left for them.

 

[Pogo]

I want baseball to resume!!!!

I'll take ANY live sports other than Friday Night Smackdown and reruns. I'm ready to say okay fine, conduct extensive testing of players, refs, and camera/tech crew and play in front of empty bleachers. Sports fans are SO hungry now, they'll watch in record numbers!

Why can we not have fans there sitting three seats apart? Especially since the virus doesn't live all that well outdoors? Baseball should be a good sport to play this live?

Okay - We could try that. 1/3 capacity with social distancing - Face masks? That would look VERY weird on TV but I think everyone's pretty much used to it by now.

I'm first and foremost a college football fan. Get it together by September and I'll be a happy camper. But we should also have an abbreviated baseball season.

We maybe able to go football games in the fall. I certainly hope so because I have some season tickets and I'm looking forward to live football.
However, the chances are very good that the virus is seasonal which means it will start spreading rapidly in the fall after a somewhat quit summer. If the number of new cases and deaths are rising throughout the summer. Fall is likely to be a lot worse than this Spring.

A good reason to be keeping an eye on Southern Hemisphere countries like Brazil and Peru (both of which have been rising).

 

[jc456]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Nope, it's a strawman trying to prove a negative.

I have zero cases of coronavirus in my county with strict distancing/closing etc measures in place.

PROVE I would still have had zero without them.

/thread

you have no evidence to that. none.

 

[jc456]

"The correct data points and the proper statistical analysis".

Translated as: "I don't want to believe this so I'm going to throw out some big words that I may or may not understand so that I can look smart.

The author is a political scientist, not a statistician. I think anyone with an understanding of what he's doing will see why his methodology is questionable. Here's the biggest issue in my opinion:

The number of deaths is one of the primary reasons states chose their Covid-19 response strategy. The seven states that did not adopt a shelter-in-place strategy are obviously not interested in doing so because they have a low death count. So if we consider the number of deaths that occur in a state with shelter-in-place, like Michigan, against a state without shelter-in-place, like Arkansas, we would see more deaths in Michigan. In his regression model, that is an indication that shelter-in-place doesn't work, because there are more deaths in Michigan than Arkansas. That makes no sense.

Michigan is implementing shelter-in-place because of the number of deaths while Arkansas is lax about this because of their lack of number of deaths. The same goes for cases. This analysis doesn't show whether the strategy is working so much as it indicates prior history of how badly covid-19 has affected that state.

why doesn't it work? this is supposed to be so contagious. why do population numbers count? if people interacting is the spread, then it should be everywhere. that's just a statistical given. if people aren't interacting, how is it they got it? there's your issue. that you can't ever answer. you have no data to back your claim. no bench mark. no, if you compare, you can't. you have nothing to compare. what he chose is the only comparison to make. and rightly, it showed that shelter in place didn't curb it at all. not at all, it still worked it's way into multiple homes according to the numbers. not technically possible.

 

[MarathonMike]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Working in NZ and Australia. Curve is bottoming out...

The problem is that you are driven by money, not moral fortitude...

That is a straw man argument and a method of deflection in order to avoid having to address the evidence presented because you don’t want to accept the fact that you could possibly be wrong

I'm not here to prove anything. All I know is they put in lockdown measures and we haven't had anywhere near as many deaths per head of population as the US. Maybe there is another reason. I'm open to ideas.

If you are referring to my second paragraph, I can only go on my interactions with with Azog.

Maybe there are several reasons for the widely varying impacts of the virus across different countries, states, cities and towns. Maybe we should focus on why that is and stop pushing the one size fits all solution.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Nope, it's a strawman trying to prove a negative.

I have zero cases of coronavirus in my county with strict distancing/closing etc measures in place.

PROVE I would still have had zero without them.

/thread

Prove you would not have zero if you pranced around like you would normally.

I don't need to. I'm not the one claiming an absolute here.

Again --- /thread

Show me your doctorate in math and or science. Otherwise STFU.

 

[theHawk]

What makes the lockdowns a curious form of dark humor is the very things that should have been locked down was mass transit! Can you picture the "rube" on his Wyoming ranch wondering why the fool in New York doesn't want the ranch ten miles down the road to get a visit but lets the subways still run? The bus system is rolling along packed to the gills.

A hundred years from now historians will marvel at how civic leaders could be sooooo stupid. Or how the fuck anyone let these fools get away with it.

We don’t need to wait a hundred years, we know how stupid they are today.

 

[Ame®icano]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

Yes.

Nobody but you, is responsible for your own safety. If you disagree, you are placing too much faith in nanny state. In other words, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. If you don't want to go to restaurants, that's fine, you're free to chose so. But insisting that everyone else does it, because you don't wanna go, is idiotic.

The well being and safety of the American people is JOB ONE of the fucking government you ignoramus.

Types of Government [ushistory.org]

Did you read the link you posted?

Show anywhere that says that government is responsible for your personal well being and safety?

 

[Pogo]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Nope, it's a strawman trying to prove a negative.

I have zero cases of coronavirus in my county with strict distancing/closing etc measures in place.

PROVE I would still have had zero without them.

/thread

Prove you would not have zero if you pranced around like you would normally.

I don't need to. I'm not the one claiming an absolute here.

Again --- /thread

Show me your doctorate in math and or science. Otherwise STFU.

Show me your proof of your negative and win a Nobel for being the first.

Demonstrating the flaw in your premise is neither "math" nor "science". It's logic.

 

[Ame®icano]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.


Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

Yes.

Nobody but you, is responsible for your own safety. If you disagree, you are placing too much faith in nanny state. In other words, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. If you don't want to go to restaurants, that's fine, you're free to chose so. But insisting that everyone else does it, because you don't wanna go, is idiotic.

The well being and safety of the American people is JOB ONE of the fucking government you ignoramus.

Types of Government [ushistory.org]

Shall I presume you have a large stash of assets to get you through the next 6 months?

He think government exists to hold his hand and make sure he doesn't hurt himself.

 

[Ame®icano]

You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.

The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...

Nope. It’s freedom!

Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?

That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.

I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you:

We do not yet know yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.

That should be my choice, not the choice of some scientists who seem to be more or less guessing.


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

C'mon man - You're gonna be like Trump and disregard medical and science professionals - REALLY??

Which should I believe and which should I disregard? They cannot seem to agree.

All agree that AIDS and Cancer kill people. Here we have disparate opinions all over the place. Why do you always bring it back to Trump? Can we not have a conversation without you bringing him into it? Don't be like that deranged drunk, playtime, and obsess over her "donny".

The only "disparate opinions" I'm seeing is between the quacks like Dr Oz and Dr Phil and REAL doctors and scientists who all seem to agree.

BOX IT IN!! - It's the ONLY way we can avoid a relapse and an even longer shutdown.

What you do with healthy people?

Nothing Clown Nuts, other than continue to be cautious and practice reasonable personal hygiene and self-distancing. Why would you ask?

So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?