Not the same. People were free to live and innovate. Sports were abundant and concerts. Family gatherings, etc. You want to shut all that down. That is extreme crazy talk to save those who are fat and unhealthy. Why can they not stay isolated and allow the rest of us to live?Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.
Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks
Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.www.cnbc.com
Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?
Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.
And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.
And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.
Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.
Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.
Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.
South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?
TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.
Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!
NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!
This is not an either-or scenario.
I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.
The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.
No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.
I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.
The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.
You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.
The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.
In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.
The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.
Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.
Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.
I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.
Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.
Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.
37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.
Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.
The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.
I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.
Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.
You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.
40% of the American population is obese. Then there are those who are not obese who have other conditions. Bottom line, most of the population is NOT SAFE!
People can still live an innovate from home. In fact, 37% of the labor force is able to do their current job without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in "Essential Services". For the 1/3 of the labor force that is not working, they can be paid to stay at home, just like the government paid 1/3 of the labor force in the 1940s to go overseas and kill Germans and Japs.
Lockdown is necessary. The damage done is repairable. Innovation is actually happening more rapidly right now than at any time in the past 20 years. Bars, nightclubs, Church, concerts, sporting events, will have to wait maybe a few years while this passes on. All those things will eventually return though. The economy will evolve and change during this time as well. As a society, we will most likely be better off once we get through this pandemic.
Sigh...
Lockdown or not, 40% of population will still be obese, and with other medical conditions. Lockdown wont save them from heart attack, or cancer, or stroke, they are not safe anywhere.
