London murders outnumber New York 2 months in a row...so it starts....

[2aguy]

Good for New York

It’s strict gun control laws are working

Not hardly.....Considering Britain banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, not down.....23% across England and Wales last year, up 42% in London, and 30% in Yorkshire......if gun control can't work on an island nation that completely banned and confiscated all guns except for the hunting shotguns of the rich.......gun control ain't gonna work anywhere....

And the British gave up their guns on the promise it would make them safer.......it didn't....

Meanwhile, in the U.S.......we know that more guns = less gun crime...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Crime in NYC is at historic lows following a 20+ year downward trend. That has more to do with your headline than London's momentary spike.

Rudy Guiliani focused on actual criminals......and they are still benefitting from his policies......notice that the democrat/socialist is ending all of those policies.......

 

[irosie91]

Both are significantly lower that the US

Both are significantly lower that the US

There's 2 assumptions there.

1.) That Americans, and Europeans are somehow similar, which is untrue

2.) That Europe somehow correlates it's murder with guns, quite the opposite the UK has a high murder rate, and a very low gun ownership rate by Western European standards, and many Eastern European countries have similar, or lower gun ownership rates, but higher murder rates than the UK.

1) Americans and Europeans are much more similar than say Americans and Africans, Americans and Asians, especially the British.

The British and Spanish are further apart than the British and Americans, for example.

2) Somehow? You mean, you don't know. Seems that way.

In the US gun murders make up around 3/4 of all murders, depends on the year. Guns are certainly the choice weapon.

In the UK it's 8% of murders, Germany 11% of murders.

Well, Scotland long had the lowest rate of gun ownership rates in Western Europe, but also the highest true Western European murder rates too.

Only if you included Finland as Western Europe, then would there have been a higher murder rate.

Now, it seems France has the highest murder rate, but once again this seems to be very much like in the U.S.A, much of a racial issue, as France has a lot of Muslims, unlike Scotland.

Any evidence? I asked before and you ignored it.

Well, what evidence do you have for gun control limiting murder?

my issue with guns is GUN ACCIDENTS

 

[2aguy]

There's 2 assumptions there.

1.) That Americans, and Europeans are somehow similar, which is untrue

2.) That Europe somehow correlates it's murder with guns, quite the opposite the UK has a high murder rate, and a very low gun ownership rate by Western European standards, and many Eastern European countries have similar, or lower gun ownership rates, but higher murder rates than the UK.

1) Americans and Europeans are much more similar than say Americans and Africans, Americans and Asians, especially the British.

The British and Spanish are further apart than the British and Americans, for example.

2) Somehow? You mean, you don't know. Seems that way.

In the US gun murders make up around 3/4 of all murders, depends on the year. Guns are certainly the choice weapon.

In the UK it's 8% of murders, Germany 11% of murders.

Well, Scotland long had the lowest rate of gun ownership rates in Western Europe, but also the highest true Western European murder rates too.

Only if you included Finland as Western Europe, then would there have been a higher murder rate.

Now, it seems France has the highest murder rate, but once again this seems to be very much like in the U.S.A, much of a racial issue, as France has a lot of Muslims, unlike Scotland.

Any evidence? I asked before and you ignored it.

Well, what evidence do you have for gun control limiting murder?

my issue with guns is GUN ACCIDENTS

How many people do you think die each year from gun accidents.....vs. other means?

.....with over 320 million people in this country and close to 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense....what is the number of people accidentally killed with guns...vs. other means of accidental death...

...from the CDC, WISQARS data site...

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748

poisoning......58,335

falling.......34,673

suffocation...6,610

drowning......3,786

 

[irosie91]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

 

[2aguy]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminals...according to bill clinton's Department of Justice study on gun self defense and barak obama's CDC, 2013 research on guns......

And according to Pew Research...as more Americans own and carry guns...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[irosie91]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

try again-----jews were disarmed by the CATHOLIC CHURCH -------including the catholic church of POLAND for more than 1000 years ---
before guns it was swords daggers -----victims of the
<far less than> holy catholic church of the holey roman empire. Most of
the jews of Poland NEVER had access to a gun-----not them---not their parents or their grandparents or their great, great... grandparents because
of the filth of "canon" law. Adolf did not INVENT the idea-------the
mass murderer CONSTANTINE did it

 

[2aguy]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

try again-----jews were disarmed by the CATHOLIC CHURCH -------including the catholic church of POLAND for more than 1000 years ---
before guns it was swords daggers -----victims of the
<far less than> holy catholic church of the holey roman empire. Most of
the jews of Poland NEVER had access to a gun-----not them---not their parents or their grandparents or their great, great... grandparents because
of the filth of "canon" law. Adolf did not INVENT the idea-------the
mass murderer CONSTANTINE did it

No....Jews were disarmed by the nazi party, the German Socialists using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s, right before they were sent to he death camps.....

This lesson has never been learned by the left wingers.......or has the wrong lesson been learned?

 

[WillowTree]

London murder rate beats New York for month as stabbings surge




Wonder what the weapon of choice is?



London became a bit more like New York City in February, but it's not a distinction to be proud of.

The city of Big Ben and the tube that sits on the Thames River overtook New York in murders for the first time in modern history as the British capital dealt with a surge in knife attacks.

The Sunday Times reports that 15 people were murdered in London, against 14 in New York. Both cities are very diverse with large populations: London has over 8.7 million residents to New York’s 8.5 million.

 

[jon_berzerk]

well all good

knives are the choice of killing tool

maybe a ban all all military style knives are in order

 

[HenryBHough]

well all good

knives are the choice of killing tool

maybe a ban all all military style knives are in order

Britain actually does have a ban on military style knives. Even on the carrying of box-cutters (aka "Utility Knives" or "Stanley Knives" unless they are a required tool of one's trade. Carrying only permitted when going to, on, and returning from the job.

So this is another obvious case of fake news. Impossible that anyone could have been murdered anywhere in Britain BECAUSE BRITAIN HAS STRICT KNIFE-CONTROL laws.

 

[irosie91]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

try again-----jews were disarmed by the CATHOLIC CHURCH -------including the catholic church of POLAND for more than 1000 years ---
before guns it was swords daggers -----victims of the
<far less than> holy catholic church of the holey roman empire. Most of
the jews of Poland NEVER had access to a gun-----not them---not their parents or their grandparents or their great, great... grandparents because
of the filth of "canon" law. Adolf did not INVENT the idea-------the
mass murderer CONSTANTINE did it

No....Jews were disarmed by the nazi party, the German Socialists using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s, right before they were sent to he death camps.....

This lesson has never been learned by the left wingers.......or has the wrong lesson been learned?

Jews were disarmed under the stinking filth of JUSTINIAN LAW. My statement is true-------very few jews in Europe had any experience AT
ALL with guns------because of their being disarmed by DA CHURCH---
for more than 1000 years even though those fascist laws were not in
effect in Germany for a few centuries------even today you will find few
jews who own guns. Most of the jewish army that defeated the
arab countries in 1948 had never previous to landing in palestine TOUCHED A RIFLE. Being disarmed became a CUSTOM
amongst jews based on Justinian and Canon law. I doubt that the disarming of jews by the Nuremburg laws had much actual effect. Jews are also completely disarmed under SHARIAH law too. -----completely---
Muhummad got the idea from Canon law. (but then----so are Christians---isn't history FUN????-----most of the real crap is NUTHIN' NEW)

 

[Crepitus]

Conservative version of defensive gun use:

Guy #1 walks down the street with concealed pistol, bumps into guy #2. Guy #2 growls "asshole" and moves on down the street. Guy #1 thinks "good thing I had my gun on me".

 

[jon_berzerk]

well all good

knives are the choice of killing tool

maybe a ban all all military style knives are in order

Britain actually does have a ban on military style knives. Even on the carrying of box-cutters (aka "Utility Knives" or "Stanley Knives" unless they are a required tool of one's trade. Carrying only permitted when going to, on, and returning from the job.

So this is another obvious case of fake news. Impossible that anyone could have been murdered anywhere in Britain BECAUSE BRITAIN HAS STRICT KNIFE-CONTROL laws.

--LOL

after i posted that

i knew they did too

in fact one can go to prison for injuring or killing a intruder into home for using one

they also run the garbage routes to pick up the garbage before the taverns close for the night

to make sure the good peoples dont get their hands on some broken glass to use as weapons

--LOL

 

[MindWars]

It should read "all those cities have gun control laws that don't work".

..STL, Mo is very pro-gun with a very high murder rate---one of the highest
..STL in top 10 most dangerous cities in US--sometimes number 1 and one of the most dangerous in the world..higher than CHi, NYC, and LA
St. Louis tops list of, ’25 Most Dangerous Cities in America’
..STL murder rate higher than gun controlled Chicago, NYC and LA
..very pro-gun MO has a higher murder rate the IL, NY and CA

And there you go....you have seen this information, you know the truth, you keep posting the same crap....St. Louis has been run by democrats since 1949......democrats keep releasing violent criminals, gun criminals who drive their gun crime rate.....it isn't law abiding gun owners who own guns and also carry them for self defense.....

You are nothing more than a gun grabber.....

Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

UK murder rate many TIMES lower than US
there--final---and you bring up London
what about Jacksonville, Parkland, Phoenix, etc?

Dip shit.....the murder rate isn't the issue with gun control......since Britain had a low murder rate before they banned and confiscated guns.......now their murder rate is going up...after they banned guns, as is their violent crime rate....violent crime rates lead the murder rate as criminals care less and less about the health and welfare of their victims...

Britain

Yorkshire sees highest number of crimes for any county in Britain according to figures

“In particular we’re shocked to see an increase of nearly 30 per cent in weapon possession offences between 2016 and 2017.”

Crimes covered violent and sexual offences, vehicle theft, public order offences, possession of weapons, shoplifting, personal theft, drug crimes, robbery, criminal damage, bicycle thefts and anti-social behaviour.


========

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .


========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.




-------

Two men stabbed dead within hours as violent crime soars in London

The shocking attacks come as new figures revealed crime overall in London is rising, with significant increases in cases of youth violence.


A total of 35 young people under the age of 25 have been murdered in the capital in the last 12 months, an 84 per cent rise on the same period last year.

The number of cases of serious youth violence - a measure of gang activity - also rose by 18 per cent.

-----


as well as a 16 per cent rise in the number of rapes.

-------

Gun crime rose by nearly 19 per cent and the number of shootings was up by 11 per cent to 338.

==============

London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest

While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.

London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically.

London with TWENTY SEVEN times the population of very pro-gun STL and about the same murders---and you use it for a pro-gun argument???!!!
London murders 2017 ---130 ..pop. 8,700,000
here's some more US cities other than STL
very pro-gun also
Dallas--murders 163 ... pop. 1,300,000
Phoenix--murders 152...pop 1,650,000
Phoenix sees uptick in homicides for 2nd straight year; most killings in a decade
Dallas Police Solved Fewer Than Half of the City's Homicides in 2016

Nearly five times as many murders are committed with knives than so-called “assault rifles,” according to the FBI.
The new crime statistics released by the agency reveal that out of 11,961 murders performed within the U.S. in 2014, 660 were committed unarmed, 1,567 were committed with knives and only 248 murders were known to have been committed using rifles of any type, including single-shot long arms and “assault rifles” routinely demonized by gun control groups.

Granted, the FBI did list 2,052 murders under “unknown firearm type,” but given the percentages of the known firearm categories, it is unlikely that more than four percent of the “unknown firearms” were in fact rifles, and less than that were semi-automatics.

In other words, despite the calls to ban “military-style assault rifles” by anti-gun groups, conservatively less – and likely much less – than four percent of murders were committed using AR-15s, AK-47s and other semi-automatic long arms.

This figure is a decrease from 2013.


It’s also been estimated that over 56 million people have died due to gun control in the last century, according to Gun Owners of America:


FBI: Nearly 5X More Murders Committed With Knives Than Assault Rifles

 

[irosie91]

any stats on WHO IS DOING THOSE MURDERS IN LONDON?

 

[jon_berzerk]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

try again-----jews were disarmed by the CATHOLIC CHURCH -------including the catholic church of POLAND for more than 1000 years ---
before guns it was swords daggers -----victims of the
<far less than> holy catholic church of the holey roman empire. Most of
the jews of Poland NEVER had access to a gun-----not them---not their parents or their grandparents or their great, great... grandparents because
of the filth of "canon" law. Adolf did not INVENT the idea-------the
mass murderer CONSTANTINE did it

No....Jews were disarmed by the nazi party, the German Socialists using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s, right before they were sent to he death camps.....

This lesson has never been learned by the left wingers.......or has the wrong lesson been learned?

Jews were disarmed under the stinking filth of JUSTINIAN LAW. My statement is true-------very few jews in Europe had any experience AT
ALL with guns------because of their being disarmed by DA CHURCH---
for more than 1000 years even though those fascist laws were not in
effect in Germany for a few centuries------even today you will find few
jews who own guns. Most of the jewish army that defeated the
arab countries in 1948 had never previous to landing in palestine TOUCHED A RIFLE. Being disarmed became a CUSTOM
amongst jews based on Justinian and Canon law. I doubt that the disarming of jews by the Nuremburg laws had much actual effect. Jews are also completely disarmed under SHARIAH law too. -----completely---
Muhummad got the idea from Canon law. (but then----so are Christians---isn't history FUN????-----most of the real crap is NUTHIN' NEW)

so you saying gun control is nothing more then to control your enemies

how about the democrat black code laws that dis armed and prevented blacks from owning firearms

was that a religious affair also

 

[irosie91]

I want a little gun------with fancy decoration-----one that is very light in
weight------and shoots 38 caliber bullets-------preferably silver

 

[irosie91]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

try again-----jews were disarmed by the CATHOLIC CHURCH -------including the catholic church of POLAND for more than 1000 years ---
before guns it was swords daggers -----victims of the
<far less than> holy catholic church of the holey roman empire. Most of
the jews of Poland NEVER had access to a gun-----not them---not their parents or their grandparents or their great, great... grandparents because
of the filth of "canon" law. Adolf did not INVENT the idea-------the
mass murderer CONSTANTINE did it

No....Jews were disarmed by the nazi party, the German Socialists using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s, right before they were sent to he death camps.....

This lesson has never been learned by the left wingers.......or has the wrong lesson been learned?

Jews were disarmed under the stinking filth of JUSTINIAN LAW. My statement is true-------very few jews in Europe had any experience AT
ALL with guns------because of their being disarmed by DA CHURCH---
for more than 1000 years even though those fascist laws were not in
effect in Germany for a few centuries------even today you will find few
jews who own guns. Most of the jewish army that defeated the
arab countries in 1948 had never previous to landing in palestine TOUCHED A RIFLE. Being disarmed became a CUSTOM
amongst jews based on Justinian and Canon law. I doubt that the disarming of jews by the Nuremburg laws had much actual effect. Jews are also completely disarmed under SHARIAH law too. -----completely---
Muhummad got the idea from Canon law. (but then----so are Christians---isn't history FUN????-----most of the real crap is NUTHIN' NEW)

so you saying gun control is nothing more then to control your enemies

how about the democrat black code laws that dis armed and prevented blacks from owning firearms

was that a religious affair also

I never heard of a "black code" law----that specifically disarms blacks----
in the south?

 

[irosie91]

495 too many for an UNNECESSARY toy. Cars are vital, heating units are
vital, medicines and foods are vital------shooting bambi is not vital

Shooting bambi isn't the whole of it.

Well, what about shooting intruders be they common criminals, or government tyrants?

Keep in mind your Holocaust victim Jews, were disarmed of their guns by Nazi Germany.

try again-----jews were disarmed by the CATHOLIC CHURCH -------including the catholic church of POLAND for more than 1000 years ---
before guns it was swords daggers -----victims of the
<far less than> holy catholic church of the holey roman empire. Most of
the jews of Poland NEVER had access to a gun-----not them---not their parents or their grandparents or their great, great... grandparents because
of the filth of "canon" law. Adolf did not INVENT the idea-------the
mass murderer CONSTANTINE did it

No....Jews were disarmed by the nazi party, the German Socialists using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s, right before they were sent to he death camps.....

This lesson has never been learned by the left wingers.......or has the wrong lesson been learned?

Jews were disarmed under the stinking filth of JUSTINIAN LAW. My statement is true-------very few jews in Europe had any experience AT
ALL with guns------because of their being disarmed by DA CHURCH---
for more than 1000 years even though those fascist laws were not in
effect in Germany for a few centuries------even today you will find few
jews who own guns. Most of the jewish army that defeated the
arab countries in 1948 had never previous to landing in palestine TOUCHED A RIFLE. Being disarmed became a CUSTOM
amongst jews based on Justinian and Canon law. I doubt that the disarming of jews by the Nuremburg laws had much actual effect. Jews are also completely disarmed under SHARIAH law too. -----completely---
Muhummad got the idea from Canon law. (but then----so are Christians---isn't history FUN????-----most of the real crap is NUTHIN' NEW)

so you saying gun control is nothing more then to control your enemies

how about the democrat black code laws that dis armed and prevented blacks from owning firearms

was that a religious affair also

at the time of the Justinian thing ----and the shariah laws are a matter
of OPPRESSION. Free citizens were regularly armed-----travel unarmed was virtually suicide