Lt. Army Colonel: "Obama Tried To Romance Putin And He Got Date-Raped"

[NotfooledbyW]

Re: "Clinton would not have undertaken Iraq war until after weapons inspectors finished the job"

eagl 10462470

The consensus on which President Bush relied was first fully formed in the Clinton administration, as these statements indicate:

Clinton did not put an end to inspections or advocate a full scale ground invasion when or while inspections were in progress.

Your point is wholly invalid. You need to start dealing with the two inspections related realities.

I agree that there was a consensus in the whole world (through November 2002) that Saddam Hussein may have had WMD up the gazzoo. But in December 2002 and two months into 2003 that global consensus was transformed to "maybe not" - let the inspections continue.

Bill Clinton said he agreed with what Bush43 did going to the UN and all but he did not agree with the timing of the attack, Clinton would not have forced the inspectors to leave as Bush did. In Clinton's own words.

.
"So I thought the president had an absolute responsibility to go to the U.N. and say, 'Look, guys, after 9/11, you have got to demand that Saddam Hussein lets us finish the inspection process.' You couldn't responsibly ignore [the possibility that] a tyrant had these stocks," Clinton said.

Pressed on whether the Iraq war was worth the cost to the United States, Clinton said he would not have undertaken the war until after U.N. chief weapons inspector Hans Blix "finished his job."

Weapons inspectors led by Blix scoured Iraq for three and a half months before the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 but left after President Bush issued an ultimatum to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to leave the country.

"I want it to have been worth it, even though I didn't agree with the timing of the attack," Clinton said.

CNN.com - Clinton defends successor s push for war - Jun 19 2004

"Clinton said he would not have undertaken the war until after U.N. chief weapons inspector Hans Blix "finished his job.""

 

[NotfooledbyW]

eagl 10462408

A option didn't solve the inspection problem did it...................

I never suggested or implied that it did. Clinton (1998) took that action in response to Iraq forcing inspectors out. Bush (2003) invaded Iraq despite the clearly known fact that Iraq welcomed the inspectors back in after Bush used the "threat" of military force if Saddam refused to let them back in.

 

[Discombobulated]

There is little doubt that both China and Russia lag far behind the US. The problem for the West is in the resolution to use the power it has. Right or wrong, weakness in the West, and particularly Obama, emboldens our adversaries. Power means nothing if you are not able to use it.

Meaningless platitudes.

 

[Discombobulated]

Russian Air Force - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Russian Navy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Putin is now building new aircraft and Naval ships. These aircraft and ships aren't non capable platforms unless you are a dolt.

To use Georgia as the whole deal is foolish.

Not much Russian naval activity in eastern Ukraine.

Well at least you know the difference between land and sea.........That's a relief.............

If we fought, BIG IF. Russians in the Ukraine........do you really think they would just park their ships and just play in the Ukraine...............................

You don't want to talk down to me about anything military. I'm still trying to decide if you're actually even up to discussing the subject.

The battles in the Ukraine are primarily on land, and that is not the same as the Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet.

You are saying you are the military expert by using sarcasm in the 5 day so called War in Georgia is pure evidence that basically stated the Russians are inept at War.

To me that is a fool speaking.

What I'm saying is that it's apparent that you don't really even begin to know what you're talking about. Just goes to show that you can't learn nearly as much from Wikipedia as you thought.

 

[Discombobulated]

Putin is now building new aircraft and Naval ships. These aircraft and ships aren't non capable platforms unless you are a dolt.

Um, yeah, the problem is, the ships the Russians are building are crap compared to ours.

Please continue............I know we have highly capable ships.............so show us the problems with the Russian Navy......................

The problem with the Russian Navy.......well let's see. How about the fact that the bulk of their surface fleet sits rusting in port, and the ships that are actually manned and operational sail only a few weeks per year on average, providing very few fleet exercise or other training opportunities for Russian Naval officers.

 

[eagle1462010]

eag1 10462408

He let them in after we were poised for invasion. At that point Bush had already encedecided to pull the trigger........

Do you see the difference between what Bush versus Clinton did??

Clinton launched limited air strikes AFTER SH forced inspectors out?

Bush launched a full scale ground invasion that toppled the government AFTER SH had let UN inspectors in. The inspectors were forced to leave, not by SH, but because GWB had decided to invade.

Do you see the fallacy in your argument that Clinton did exactly what Bush43 did?

eagl 10459319

But it doesn't change one iota of the fact that Clinton was saying the same thing via his intel long before.

eagl 10459549

My point was explained in the video.....Showing prominent Dems including Clinton stating that Saddam was a threat with WMD's. That was going on before 9/11 ever happened and until after we went into Iraq. Bush pulled the trigger, and there is no doubt on that, but the Dems helped pack the barrel to help prime the musket to fire.

Whether you agreed or not is not in question. Hell I didn't agree with the Nation building process, as I knew we would get stuck there just because it is the middle east. That doesn't change the fact that your side was saying the same damn thing leading up the the War. Why was the Clinton Administration reporting the same things Bush was doing before any of this.............................

He was saying back then via his intel that they were building WMD's during the time of No Fly Zones...........

eagl 10459708

Clinton felt so strongly that Iraq had WMD's that he attacked Iraq long before Bush ever took office.

Your logic and reasoning are shown to be weak.

That is why you refuse to acknowledge that Bush projected two images of himself for public consumption during the run-up to the invasion. One was a tough revengeful and fear-mongering leader ready to decide the need for war and the second was hopeful that efforts through the UN will lead to a resolution that is peaceful and will not require war.

The hopeful one got his inspections but the tough leader was the one who told them to get out of his way.

Bill Clinton would never have told the inspectors to leave so he could make war. Clinton made war because Hussein drove the inspectors out. It was the reaction to that.

Bush got inspectors back in but told them they had to leave. That was a huge error and you are fabricating a fake reality that Bill Clinton did the same thing.

It took massive troops on the border to get Saddam to allow it, and Clinton didn't take office during 9/11 either. So to say Clinton wouldn't have attacked Afghanistan and or Iraq is speculation. Given that I've still stated that Bush Jr. mainly wanted to avenge his dad.

I don't deny that. However, as I've said many many times...............the Clintons and Dems where saying the same dang things Bush was on Iraq..........to the point of attacking Iraq under Clinton. And Albright said during the time that it would not completely destroy their capabilities.

I posted that for you already. Or perhaps that was Joe........who stated that Clinton destroyed them all........or maybe there was none..........or maybe.............flip flopping all over the dang place.

The Clinton Administration reported to diminish their capabilities not utterly destroy them. But the same words I've been stating were stated by Clinton and Democratic leaders. Before and after Bush was in office.

Yet it's all BUSH...................He lied..............Well by that standard you must also call CLINTON A LIAR, and the DEMS LIARS as well.............as they said the same dang things.

 

[eagle1462010]

Re: "Clinton would not have undertaken Iraq war until after weapons inspectors finished the job"

eagl 10462470

The consensus on which President Bush relied was first fully formed in the Clinton administration, as these statements indicate:

Clinton did not put an end to inspections or advocate a full scale ground invasion when or while inspections were in progress.

Your point is wholly invalid. You need to start dealing with the two inspections related realities.

I agree that there was a consensus in the whole world (through November 2002) that Saddam Hussein may have had WMD up the gazzoo. But in December 2002 and two months into 2003 that global consensus was transformed to "maybe not" - let the inspections continue.

Bill Clinton said he agreed with what Bush43 did going to the UN and all but he did not agree with the timing of the attack, Clinton would not have forced the inspectors to leave as Bush did. In Clinton's own words.

.
"So I thought the president had an absolute responsibility to go to the U.N. and say, 'Look, guys, after 9/11, you have got to demand that Saddam Hussein lets us finish the inspection process.' You couldn't responsibly ignore [the possibility that] a tyrant had these stocks," Clinton said.

Pressed on whether the Iraq war was worth the cost to the United States, Clinton said he would not have undertaken the war until after U.N. chief weapons inspector Hans Blix "finished his job."

Weapons inspectors led by Blix scoured Iraq for three and a half months before the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 but left after President Bush issued an ultimatum to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to leave the country.

"I want it to have been worth it, even though I didn't agree with the timing of the attack," Clinton said.

CNN.com - Clinton defends successor s push for war - Jun 19 2004

"Clinton said he would not have undertaken the war until after U.N. chief weapons inspector Hans Blix "finished his job.""

This denies the fact that Saddam only allowed their return when Divisions of U.S. and British Forces were staring down his throat from across the border.

 

[eagle1462010]

Putin is now building new aircraft and Naval ships. These aircraft and ships aren't non capable platforms unless you are a dolt.

Um, yeah, the problem is, the ships the Russians are building are crap compared to ours.

Please continue............I know we have highly capable ships.............so show us the problems with the Russian Navy......................

The problem with the Russian Navy.......well let's see. How about the fact that the bulk of their surface fleet sits rusting in port, and the ships that are actually manned and operational sail only a few weeks per year on average, providing very few fleet exercise or other training opportunities for Russian Naval officers.

And Putin is moving to change that. Yes, many of their assets are degraded, but that does not discount their ability to rebuild or the firing capabilities of those still deploying.

 

[Wildman]

||||||||||||||||||||||

how did we get from Obongo getting fucked by Putin to Bubba and Reagan ?

someone got

 

[Discombobulated]

Putin is now building new aircraft and Naval ships. These aircraft and ships aren't non capable platforms unless you are a dolt.

Um, yeah, the problem is, the ships the Russians are building are crap compared to ours.

Please continue............I know we have highly capable ships.............so show us the problems with the Russian Navy......................

The problem with the Russian Navy.......well let's see. How about the fact that the bulk of their surface fleet sits rusting in port, and the ships that are actually manned and operational sail only a few weeks per year on average, providing very few fleet exercise or other training opportunities for Russian Naval officers.

And Putin is moving to change that. Yes, many of their assets are degraded, but that does not discount their ability to rebuild or the firing capabilities of those still deploying.

It takes years to rebuild a navy and the one they have isn't anywhere close to being able to confront the US Navy. Maybe something to be concerned about in another decade or so.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Re: 16 September 2002. Iraq said it would allow international weapons inspectors to return "without conditions."

Re: 12 January 2003 The USS Saipan, the USS Gunston Hall and the USS Ponce will depart from North Carolina carrying elements of the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade. It will take roughly 3-4 weeks for the task force to transit to the Persian Gulf

You are about 3 to 4 months bass-ackwards eagle1. Allowing inspectors to come back in was announced by Iraq about three months before US troops started arriving in Kuwait.

eagl 10463863

It took massive troops on the border to get Saddam to allow it, and .

Bush43 did a great job massing troops to get Saddam to stick with cooperating with the inspectors. But your perception of the pre-invasion timeline is quite far-fetched from reality. Why is that?

Here's Some of the key dates;

16 September 2002. Iraq said it would allow international weapons inspectors to return "without conditions." Inspectors will be governed by the timetable established in UN Security Council resolution 1284, which reorganized the inspections program in 1999. The UNMOVIC and the IAEA inspectors, not later than 60 days after they have both started work in Iraq, would report to the Security Council to lay out a work plan. After the work plan is adopted, UNMOVIC and IAEA have 120 days within which to make an initial report on whether Iraq is cooperating.

. 11 October 2002. On 11 October 2002 the Pentagon issued orders to the Army's V Corps and I Marine Expeditionary Force to deploy headquarters staffs to Kuwait, in the first non-routine dispatch of conventional ground forces to the Persian Gulf region in anticipation of military action against Iraq.

Mid-October 2002. Two Military Sealift Command roll-on/roll-off ships -- TAKR 300 Bob Hope and TAKR 301 Fisher-- were activated and sent to pick up equipment for "a mechanized Army division based in Georgia". The equipment was being shipped to Kuwait and could arrive there by mid-November. Crews loaded 8,300 metric tons aboard the TAKR 300 Bob Hope. Another ship, the TAKR 301 Fisher, was loaded with 6,600 tons of equipment.

. Mid-November 2002. Two Military Sealift Command roll-on/roll-off ships that were activated and sent to pick up equipment for "a mechanized Army division based in Georgia" in mid-October arrived in Kuwait by mid-November.

27 November 2002. UN officials say the first inspections inside Iraq should resume by 27 November, though the Security Council resolution requires that they start no later than 23 December.

Troops not arriving in Kuwait yet Eagle1. Inspections already started.

December 2002. The Pentagon was expected to begin vaccinating up to half a million troops against smallpox as soon as the vaccine is licensed in mid-November. Of the 1.4 million active duty service members, 350,000 to 500,000 could be immunized under the plan. Most would be in units that might be deployed to the Middle East.

Attacking Iraq - Countdown Timeline


The facts are not corresponding to the reality that you've attempted to create in this thread, Eagle1.

. 12 January 2003 The USS Saipan, the USS Gunston Hall and the USS Ponce will depart from North Carolina carrying elements of the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade. It will take roughly 3-4 weeks for the task force to transit to the Persian Gulf.

12 January 2003 The Turkish government gave US military planners permission to examine ports and airstrips to see what upgrades are needed for a war against Iraq. But Turkey delayed deciding whether to let US forces use those facilities until after a UN weapons inspectors report due 27 January 2003. If Turkey balks, the Pentagon might order up to six aircraft carrier battle groups to the region. The Navy would need until the end of February to get all those ships in place.

End of February Eagle. End of February What were you thinking?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

eag1 10463863

So to say Clinton wouldn't have attacked Afghanistan and or Iraq is speculation.

Clinton would have attacked Afghanistan I have no doubt. Clinton would have done the same as Bush with the exception that he would have waited until Blix and el Beradai were finished with their inspections. That comes from the former President himself as I posted.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

eagl 10463863

Yet it's all BUSH...................He lied..............Well by that standard you must also call CLINTON A LIAR, and the DEMS LIARS as well.............as they said the same dang things.

I started this conversation by telling you that the vast majority of the WMD claims by Bush43 were not lies. So what on earth are you complaining about? Blair/Bush was right 100% to confront Saddam's regime and the UNSC over the absolute potential threat of Saddam Hussein being in possession of WMD. Primarily chem/bio in my view at that time.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

wildm 10463941

how did we get from Obongo getting fucked by Putin to Bubba and Reagan ?

There is no case that Obama got fucked by Putin. It didn't take much to refute that so I'm trying to set eagle1 straight for making things up like saying the Iraqis didn't let UN inspectors in until after US troops had amassed on Iraq's border.

 

[eagle1462010]

I have already stated that Bush wanted to go for his daddy. I said that then and say it now.

The other part of the equation was that I want your side to own up to the Dems saying the same thing on the WMD situation in Iraq. Everyone back then believed he was developing the Weapons. This came from the Clinton Administration and the other Dems saying the same dang things Bush was saying.

Bush pulled the trigger. However, the Dems did vote authority and were saying the same thing. They went to intel briefings on the issue as well. Backed by the data that caused Clinton to attack, all were thinking Saddam was still continuing a program.

Saddam had used chemical weapons, primarily mustard gas against Iran and weapons against the Kurds.

What I want your side to admit, is that the Dems and much of the world thought he was proceeding with WMDs..........If the world didn't think he was doing it any more they wouldn't have needed to even inspect anymore.

 

[eagle1462010]

Iraq Weapons Inspections Fast Facts - CNN.com

September 19, 2002 - Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri delivers a letter to the United Nations from Saddam Hussein stating that Iraq has no chemical, nuclear or biological weapons.

October 1, 2002 - The United Nations and Iraq agree on terms they say are consistent with existing U.N. resolutions. The United States threatens to veto unless a U.S. resolution is approved that would allow military action for non-compliance by Iraq.

November 8, 2002 - The U.N. Security Council passes Resolution 1441.

November 13, 2002 - Iraq delivers a letter to U.N. Secretary GeneralKofi Annan, accepting the terms set forth in resolution 1441.

November 27, 2002 - Inspections resume in Iraq.

December 7, 2002 - Iraq submits a 12,000 page report on its WMD programs.

January 16, 2003 - Inspectors discover 12 chemical warheads, 11 of them empty, at the Ukhaider ammunition storage area.

January 20, 2003 - After two days of negotiation, Hans Blix,Mohamed ElBaradei, and Iraqi officials reach an agreement about Iraqi cooperation and concessions regarding the inspections.

February 5, 2003 - Secretary of State Colin Powell briefs the U.N. Security Council on inspections. He presents evidence that the United States says proves Iraq has misled inspectors and hid proscribed weapons and equipment.

February 14, 2003 - Blix and ElBaradei brief the U.N. Security Council. Blix reports that the inspectors have not yet found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Blix also reports that Iraq is in violation of U.N. resolutions concerning its al Samoud 2 missile program.

February 19, 2003 - Inspectors visit the Ibn al Haytham factory northwest of Baghdad and tag 32 al Samoud II missiles.

February 27, 2003 - Iraq agrees to destroy the country's al Samoud II missile stock. However, the letter doesn't specify a date that the missile destruction will begin.

March 10, 2003 - It is revealed that Iraq possesses drone aircraft that could have been used to launch a chemical or biological attack against other countries. The plane has a wingspan of 24 feet five inches, which suggests that it could fly further than 150km/93 miles, which is the limit imposed by U.N. resolutions.

March 18, 2003 - Inspectors withdraw from Iraq.

March 20, 2003 - (local time) U.S. and coalition forces begin military action against Iraq.

 

[JoeB131]

He refused to allow the continuance of UN inspectors and had done so for quite some time. He was in violation of the UN Resolution and remedies he agreed upon after the 1st Gulf War. He slaughtered the Shiites to put down the rebellion. And we were forced into enforcing NO FLY ZONES IN IRAQ. Followed by Air and cruise missile attacks by Clinton.

No one really knew how much was destroyed, whether the programs were ongoing

well, that's not true, either. Hans Blix, Scott Ritter and Mohammed El-Baradai, all of whom were involved in the inspections, were pretty sure by 2002, Saddam had little or no WMD capability, and invasion wasn't necessary.

Again, you guys didn't go to war over the resolutions or because he slaughtered Shi'ites a decade earlier.

You went to war because he had a-bombs and anthrax and he was going to hand them over to Al Qaeda at any minute now!!!

which simply wasn't true.

 

[eagle1462010]

He refused to allow the continuance of UN inspectors and had done so for quite some time. He was in violation of the UN Resolution and remedies he agreed upon after the 1st Gulf War. He slaughtered the Shiites to put down the rebellion. And we were forced into enforcing NO FLY ZONES IN IRAQ. Followed by Air and cruise missile attacks by Clinton.

No one really knew how much was destroyed, whether the programs were ongoing

well, that's not true, either. Hans Blix, Scott Ritter and Mohammed El-Baradai, all of whom were involved in the inspections, were pretty sure by 2002, Saddam had little or no WMD capability, and invasion wasn't necessary.

Again, you guys didn't go to war over the resolutions or because he slaughtered Shi'ites a decade earlier.

You went to war because he had a-bombs and anthrax and he was going to hand them over to Al Qaeda at any minute now!!!

which simply wasn't true.

We went to War in the Middle East because of 9/11. Bush went into Iraq to finish for his dad. The problem with the middle east is not isolated to Afghanistan.

I did not agree with prolonged Wars to fight on their terms from the onset. I've always stated to get in and kill as many as possible and get out. So stop with the we................

What I want from you is for you to admit that the Dems were saying the same dang things about the potential for WMD's there. And as already stated Clinton Attacked Iraq for the very same reasons.

Then you say Clinton wiped them all out, yet I posted from Albright that they didn't expect to wipe them out in the campaign.

I've also stated that Saddam only allowed the inspectors back in through the threat of force and War.

I've also stated that Saddam used the weapons in the Iran War, whether you classify Mustard Gas and Chlorine as WMD or not. He also used them on the Kurds.

I'm also saying that Obama even now threatened Assad for 1 USE of Chemical Weapons for the very same reasons Clinton attacked Iraq, and Bush Invaded Iraq for........................

I've posted the words of Clinton, and the Dems who have said the same thing before and after Bush.

I've posted on recently that the inspectors did find missile delivery systems upon returning that Saddam said didn't exist.

Either way, your side needs to own up to the rhetoric of the War before and in the beginning in Iraq.

Your side gave authority to go into Iraq.
Other countries intel said they believed Iraq had WMD's.
The UN Security Council 1441 I believe also gave Bush authority to invade if he felt Saddam was hampering the inspections..........and as stated.........they found delivery systems prior to the War.

Everyone knew that even with new inspections, only allowed through the threat of War..........that Saddam would thwart the inspections as he has done in the past.

In the War the old stock piles from 1991 were found even though they were in disrepair.........U.S. Soldiers were exposed to such weapons during the War, and had to be treated for exposure to the weapons that Saddam said didn't exist. Said he didn't know they were there. Whether primitive or not, they knew they were there, and refused to disclose under the Peace agreement from the 1st Gulf War which put them in VIOLATION of the PEACE TERMS and Resolutions of the United Nations.

Some of these old weapons were used in IED's in the War...........

Saddam was lying SOB.............he slaughtered his own as the dictator he was...............he had used Chemical Weapons many times before................No one trusted him or believed him anymore.............

He had for a very long time snubbed his nose at the UN and the World..........forcing No Fly Zones...........Forcing Economic Sanctions as he even bragged about restoring his programs.............

and etc........................Bush had the legal authority to attack...........His major malfunction was believing he could create a Democracy in the Quick Sand of the Middle East. They rule by Religion and kill each other over the same dang thing. And now these divisions and ideologies are killing each other again..........Shiite versus Sunni in a Civil War...................as we bomb them again................as we bomb ISIS in Syria.............as we arm the FSA.............in a 3 sided Death Match in Syria..............

The place sucks.....................Always has and always will.

 

[eagle1462010]

What will Obama accomplish by arming the FSA.......................will they win the Civil War because of our help..............

I understand the deal with ISIS............as they beheaded our people..............but even with these attacks they still fight on all fronts......................

We arm the FSA only to be killed by Assad forces...............the FSA opposes them...............We are throwing weapons into the middle of a long running Civil War that has displaced over half the population of Syria...........

What is the end game with the Obama strategy..............Do you support this end game...............

Will the bombing in Iraq change the ideologies of the opposing sides.................

Will the opposing sides still hate each other after we are gone.

Why did he wait until after the elections to commit to military strikes there....................

and so on.............as this thread was supposed to be about RUSSIA, THE UKRAINE, AND OBAMA.

 

[eagle1462010]

He refused to allow the continuance of UN inspectors and had done so for quite some time. He was in violation of the UN Resolution and remedies he agreed upon after the 1st Gulf War. He slaughtered the Shiites to put down the rebellion. And we were forced into enforcing NO FLY ZONES IN IRAQ. Followed by Air and cruise missile attacks by Clinton.

No one really knew how much was destroyed, whether the programs were ongoing

well, that's not true, either. Hans Blix, Scott Ritter and Mohammed El-Baradai, all of whom were involved in the inspections, were pretty sure by 2002, Saddam had little or no WMD capability, and invasion wasn't necessary.

Again, you guys didn't go to war over the resolutions or because he slaughtered Shi'ites a decade earlier.

You went to war because he had a-bombs and anthrax and he was going to hand them over to Al Qaeda at any minute now!!!

which simply wasn't true.

Again we went to War in that region because we wanted to KICK THEIR ASSES for 9/11..............We wanted Pay Back and Bush wanted to get pay back on Saddam.........It was a long time after 9/11 before we attacked them, as the World demanded again and again to allow inspectors back in.

Saddam had well over a year to allow it to continue..............But he didn't did he. It took the threat of War to get it done and initial inspections found delivery systems he said he didn't have.