Malaysia Airlines Is To Blame. Not the Russians

[protectionist]

By the OP's logic, if I wandered mistakenly into the wrong side of town at night and was murdered it would be my fault.

Was it the fault of the people on Korean Air 007 to get blown to hell by Russian dogs?

Missiles don't kill people, Airlines do ALERT!

There is no excuse for this bullshit. That gear is sophisticated enough to know the difference between a passenger aircraft and military.

NO, that NOT the OP's logic. This plane didn't "wander". It was routed by Malaysian Airlines to fly through a war zone, where other planes have been getting shot down. Starting to focus for you now ?

I thought your first statement was exceedingly dumb until I saw your last one.
EARTH TO RCC: The missles can't differentiate between military and passenger, and the planes they had been shooting down, were neither of those. They were cargo planes.

The missiles can't tell the difference but the radar system with a properly trained operator can. Putting that weapon system in the hands of untrained personel makes whoever gave them the system culpable in the resulting crime of accident.

Upon what do you base this ? And what leads you to conclude this was an "accident" ?

 

[protectionist]

Had Russia not been trying to annex part of the Ukraine and arming rebels with anti-aircraft weapons, 300 innocent people would be alive today.

So what if Russia was trying to annex Ukraine ? Do you object to that ? If so, on what basis ?

 

[Peach]

and If they obtained them by taking them from the Ukrainian Army ?

Full access now is a very clear statement, this plane was shot by a missle launched from rebel territory, why are the Russian rebels preventing access?

Because when the missile detonates it leaves a signature as to it's variant. The signature will be on some of the bodies and aircraft pieces (shrapnel type and chemical residue) The BUK has many variants and if the one in this shoot down were a Ukrainian one it would be easy to tell. Just as it will be easy to tell if it was a Russian military variant.

So it appears, but the US has radar images and heat "signature", working on the trajectory, looks like it came from the area controlled by Russian terorists:

A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from, the official said. The Obama administration believes Ukraine did not have the capability in the region -- let alone the motivation -- to shoot down the plane, a U.S. official told CNN's Jake Tapper..

 

[protectionist]

NO, that NOT the OP's logic. This plane didn't "wander". It was routed by Malaysian Airlines to fly through a war zone, where other planes have been getting shot down. Starting to focus for you now ?

I thought your first statement was exceedingly dumb until I saw your last one.
EARTH TO RCC: The missles can't differentiate between military and passenger, and the planes they had been shooting down, were neither of those. They were cargo planes.

The missiles can't tell the difference but the radar system with a properly trained operator can. Putting that weapon system in the hands of untrained personel makes whoever gave them the system culpable in the resulting crime of accident.

Yes, and no one slipped them out of Russia in their back pockets.

You agree. So where does your expertise to affirm his comment come from ? I'm not saying you don't know. I just want to know what is the basis of your (and his) conclusion.

 

[protectionist]

By the OP's logic, if I wandered mistakenly into the wrong side of town at night and was murdered it would be my fault.

Was it the fault of the people on Korean Air 007 to get blown to hell by Russian dogs?

Missiles don't kill people, Airlines do ALERT!

There is no excuse for this bullshit. That gear is sophisticated enough to know the difference between a passenger aircraft and military.

NO, that NOT the OP's logic. This plane didn't "wander". It was routed by Malaysian Airlines to fly through a war zone, where other planes have been getting shot down. Starting to focus for you now ?

I thought your first statement was exceedingly dumb until I saw your last one.
EARTH TO RCC: The missles can't differentiate between military and passenger, and the planes they had been shooting down, were neither of those. They were cargo planes.

All planes are cargo planes.

No thy're not. Fighter jets for instance are designed to be lightweight to fly fast and manuever well. They are lightweight and small. Just the opposite of cargo planes which are big, heavy, slow, and have lots of room for cargo.

 

[Peach]

Had Russia not been trying to annex part of the Ukraine and arming rebels with anti-aircraft weapons, 300 innocent people would be alive today.

So what if Russia was trying to annex Ukraine ? Do you object to that ? If so, on what basis ?

Every second the USSR existed(.) A totalitarian state, no argument about that fact.

 

[Peach]

The missiles can't tell the difference but the radar system with a properly trained operator can. Putting that weapon system in the hands of untrained personel makes whoever gave them the system culpable in the resulting crime of accident.

Yes, and no one slipped them out of Russia in their back pockets.

You agree. So where does your expertise to affirm his comment come from ? I'm not saying you don't know. I just want to know what is the basis of your (and his) conclusion.

Research, USAF, etc. Lots of articles explaining how our flight experts reached their conclusions, I have posted many links.

 

[protectionist]

Singapore Airline, Virgin Atlantic, and dozens of other Asian and European Airlines used that air space. Six Heathrow flights were among 55 planes over Donetsk on same day. Of course no airline should have been using that route. However, hindsight is perfect.

Virgin Atlantic plane was in same area as MH17 when it was shot down | Mail Online

Of course no airline should have been flying through that war zone. So what's the point of mentioning that some idiots DID do that ? And this WAS "hindsight". Some planes had already been shot down a few days before this flight. All the more reason for MA to act responsibly, and stay out of the zone.

Saying the blame lies with MA, as this thread contends is like saying a young girl raped walking through a bad neighborhood is to blame, not the rapist.

Illogical analogy. The OP only gives blame to Malyasia Airlines, as would be the same for a young girls parents, if they didn't counsel her to stay away from the bad neighborhood. As for the rapist part of the analogy, it can't work because, there hasn't really been anyone to lay blame on, so as to be analagous to the rapist.

 

[protectionist]

Europe is behind the US:

Ukraine, rebels argue over wreck, Europeans give Putin 'last chance' | Reuters

Sorry Putin, "last chance".

Europeans won't do anything.

They're too craven.

Open condemnation of Putin will help, his act has been wearing thin for years. Once KGB, always KGB.

Condemn him for what ?

 

[protectionist]

Of course no airline should have been flying through that war zone. So what's the point of mentioning that some idiots DID do that ? And this WAS "hindsight". Some planes had already been shot down a few days before this flight. All the more reason for MA to act responsibly, and stay out of the zone.

Saying the blame lies with MA, as this thread contends is like saying a young girl raped walking through a bad neighborhood is to blame, not the rapist.

In fairness to the airliners that flew over the area, many girls have been raped while walking through a bad neighborhood, but no one has ever shot down a commercial airliner with a missile until now. Kind of caught everyone off guard. Who would suspect a WMD would be given to some random rogue group of thugs. These are people who can't be trusted to guard over dead bodies for a night or two and Russia gave them an anti aircraft system.

How do you come to the conclusion that the Russian-supporting Ukranian separatists are a "random rogue group of thugs". Upon what do you justify that description ?

 

[Peach]

NO, that NOT the OP's logic. This plane didn't "wander". It was routed by Malaysian Airlines to fly through a war zone, where other planes have been getting shot down. Starting to focus for you now ?

I thought your first statement was exceedingly dumb until I saw your last one.
EARTH TO RCC: The missles can't differentiate between military and passenger, and the planes they had been shooting down, were neither of those. They were cargo planes.

All planes are cargo planes.

No thy're not. Fighter jets for instance are designed to be lightweight to fly fast and manuever well. They are lightweight and small. Just the opposite of cargo planes which are big, heavy, slow, and have lots of room for cargo.

Are passengers planes also of different design, it is my undrstanding they are, I hope you can correct this fact if my understanding is wrong, on the first issue:

Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile, U.S. Officials Say - WSJ

Separatists most likely fired missile, analysis says - CNN.com

 

[protectionist]

and If they obtained them by taking them from the Ukrainian Army ?

Full access now is a very clear statement, this plane was shot by a missle launched from rebel territory, why are the Russian rebels preventing access?

Because when the missile detonates it leaves a signature as to it's variant. The signature will be on some of the bodies and aircraft pieces (shrapnel type and chemical residue) The BUK has many variants and if the one in this shoot down were a Ukrainian one it would be easy to tell. Just as it will be easy to tell if it was a Russian military variant.

What is all this talk about whose missle it was ? What does that matter ? Sheeeesh!! There's a war going on. SAMs are being shot into the sky, as occurs in any war zone, and the dumbo Malaysians sent their airliner to fly right through the war zone. What else is there to this ?

 

[dilloduck]

Full access now is a very clear statement, this plane was shot by a missle launched from rebel territory, why are the Russian rebels preventing access?

Because when the missile detonates it leaves a signature as to it's variant. The signature will be on some of the bodies and aircraft pieces (shrapnel type and chemical residue) The BUK has many variants and if the one in this shoot down were a Ukrainian one it would be easy to tell. Just as it will be easy to tell if it was a Russian military variant.

What is all this talk about whose missle it was ? What does that matter ? Sheeeesh!! There's a war going on. SAMs are being shot into the sky, as occurs in any war zone, and the dumbo Malaysians sent their airliner to fly right through the war zone. What else is there to this ?

The left is trying desperately to pin the blame on Putin.

 

[JoeB131]

Talk about blaming the victim. The plane was unarmed and on its flight path. The blame goes directly to Putin.


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Putin deserves a lot of blame.

So does the pilot flying his plane over a war zone with independent actors having access to weaponry of this caliber. And every other pilot who flew his plane over the same region and was luckier.

 

[Jroc]

OFF TOPIC!! The OP/thread is addressing what MA NEEDED to worry about, not what anybody "should" have to do. Get it ?

Off topic? You asked what was his point, he told you. That's not off topic, that's called answering your question you fucking idiot.

The "off topic" words were (quite obviously) referring to his talking about what an airline should have to do, when the topic is about what they NEEDED to do. Interesting how I have to explain that to you, when the explanation is already right there in my previous post, WHICH YOU QUOTED. And YOU are calling ME a "fucking idiot" ?? HA HA HA.

Oh you were looking in the mirror when you said that. OK.

As for his so-called "point", I didn't see a shred of evidence from him about his so-called 55 planes (which I tend to doubt, since other airlines were smartly avoiding the area, including the ones I specifically noted in the OP)

"The Russians are not to blame" is pretty friken stupid in and of itself actually

 

[protectionist]

Yes, and no one slipped them out of Russia in their back pockets.

You agree. So where does your expertise to affirm his comment come from ? I'm not saying you don't know. I just want to know what is the basis of your (and his) conclusion.

Research, USAF, etc. Lots of articles explaining how our flight experts reached their conclusions, I have posted many links.

If you were to post one here/now, your words might have more credibility. I see no links or sources.

 

[protectionist]

Had Russia not been trying to annex part of the Ukraine and arming rebels with anti-aircraft weapons, 300 innocent people would be alive today.

So what if Russia was trying to annex Ukraine ? Do you object to that ? If so, on what basis ?

Every second the USSR existed(.) A totalitarian state, no argument about that fact.

I don't quite understand the answer. So you're saying that if Ukraine were to unite with Russia, it would become totalitarian ? Help me out here. (?????)

 

[Peach]

You agree. So where does your expertise to affirm his comment come from ? I'm not saying you don't know. I just want to know what is the basis of your (and his) conclusion.

Research, USAF, etc. Lots of articles explaining how our flight experts reached their conclusions, I have posted many links.

If you were to post one here/now, your words might have more credibility. I see no links or sources.

I did, here again:

Ukraine Knew of Separatists' Air-Defense Capabilities, Say Officials - WSJ

U.S. Building Case Tying Pro-Russian Separatists To Plane Crash In Ukraine
Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine: What happened? | Fox 59
Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile, U.S. Officials Say - WSJ

 

[protectionist]

All planes are cargo planes.

No thy're not. Fighter jets for instance are designed to be lightweight to fly fast and manuever well. They are lightweight and small. Just the opposite of cargo planes which are big, heavy, slow, and have lots of room for cargo.

Are passengers planes also of different design, it is my undrstanding they are, I hope you can correct this fact if my understanding is wrong, on the first issue:

Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile, U.S. Officials Say - WSJ

Separatists most likely fired missile, analysis says - CNN.com

As I stated earlier, I think it is a moot point what kind of plane this was. As Gen. McCaffery stated on MSNBC earlier today, you can't see what kind of plane there is, when it's well above 30,000 feet. It just gets picked up on radar. This triggers the computer to fire a missle.

 

[Peach]

Because when the missile detonates it leaves a signature as to it's variant. The signature will be on some of the bodies and aircraft pieces (shrapnel type and chemical residue) The BUK has many variants and if the one in this shoot down were a Ukrainian one it would be easy to tell. Just as it will be easy to tell if it was a Russian military variant.

What is all this talk about whose missle it was ? What does that matter ? Sheeeesh!! There's a war going on. SAMs are being shot into the sky, as occurs in any war zone, and the dumbo Malaysians sent their airliner to fly right through the war zone. What else is there to this ?

The left is trying desperately to pin the blame on Putin.

Why are those who do not adore Putin "left"? Putin was a Communist for decades. Because he duped Bush II? Every leader duped Bush, Cheney pulled the strings.