Malaysia Airlines Is To Blame. Not the Russians

[protectionist]

Talk about blaming the victim. The plane was unarmed and on its flight path. The blame goes directly to Putin.


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Putin deserves a lot of blame.

So does the pilot flying his plane over a war zone with independent actors having access to weaponry of this caliber. And every other pilot who flew his plane over the same region and was luckier.

Putin deserves a lot of blame, for what reason ? Based on what ?

 

[Jroc]

Had Russia not been trying to annex part of the Ukraine and arming rebels with anti-aircraft weapons, 300 innocent people would be alive today.

So what if Russia was trying to annex Ukraine ? Do you object to that ? If so, on what basis ?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrasqV7M2Vc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrasqV7M2Vc[/ame]

1994 legally binding agreement signed by Bill Clinton obligates America to defend Ukraine
at Forgotten treaty could drag U.S. into war with Russia

A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin’s troops cross into the country.

Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine – agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union

Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

Read more at Forgotten treaty could drag U.S. into war with Russia

 

[protectionist]

off topic? You asked what was his point, he told you. That's not off topic, that's called answering your question you fucking idiot.

the "off topic" words were (quite obviously) referring to his talking about what an airline should have to do, when the topic is about what they needed to do. Interesting how i have to explain that to you, when the explanation is already right there in my previous post, which you quoted. And you are calling me a "fucking idiot" ?? Ha ha ha.

Oh you were looking in the mirror when you said that. Ok.

As for his so-called "point", i didn't see a shred of evidence from him about his so-called 55 planes (which i tend to doubt, since other airlines were smartly avoiding the area, including the ones i specifically noted in the op)

"the russians are not to blame" is pretty friken stupid in and of itself actually

Upon WHAT do you base that statement ?

 

[Jroc]

the "off topic" words were (quite obviously) referring to his talking about what an airline should have to do, when the topic is about what they needed to do. Interesting how i have to explain that to you, when the explanation is already right there in my previous post, which you quoted. And you are calling me a "fucking idiot" ?? Ha ha ha.

Oh you were looking in the mirror when you said that. Ok.

As for his so-called "point", i didn't see a shred of evidence from him about his so-called 55 planes (which i tend to doubt, since other airlines were smartly avoiding the area, including the ones i specifically noted in the op)

"the russians are not to blame" is pretty friken stupid in and of itself actually

Upon WHAT do you base that statement ?

The Russians supplied the weapons, they advised and trained the rebels how to use them..anything else?

 

[MaryL]

And the people that actually shot the plane down, the Russian backed separatist don't have ANYTHING to do with it. That is Odd, because in the world I live in, it's cause and effect. If I shot a plane down, it would be my fault.

 

[dilloduck]

What is all this talk about whose missle it was ? What does that matter ? Sheeeesh!! There's a war going on. SAMs are being shot into the sky, as occurs in any war zone, and the dumbo Malaysians sent their airliner to fly right through the war zone. What else is there to this ?

The left is trying desperately to pin the blame on Putin.

Why are those who do not adore Putin "left"? Putin was a Communist for decades. Because he duped Bush II? Every leader duped Bush, Cheney pulled the strings.

Claiming anyone adores Putin is a bit far fetched. It's just that he's made Obama look like a fool a few times here recently... It's all political bullshit. Probably CIA KGB

 

[Peach]

Full access now is a very clear statement, this plane was shot by a missle launched from rebel territory, why are the Russian rebels preventing access?

Because when the missile detonates it leaves a signature as to it's variant. The signature will be on some of the bodies and aircraft pieces (shrapnel type and chemical residue) The BUK has many variants and if the one in this shoot down were a Ukrainian one it would be easy to tell. Just as it will be easy to tell if it was a Russian military variant.

What is all this talk about whose missle it was ? What does that matter ? Sheeeesh!! There's a war going on. SAMs are being shot into the sky, as occurs in any war zone, and the dumbo Malaysians sent their airliner to fly right through the war zone. What else is there to this ?

You posted rhis right after my first twolinks, here is the other one:

Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile, U.S. Officials Say - WSJ

 

[hjmick]

OFF TOPIC!! The OP/thread is addressing what MA NEEDED to worry about, not what anybody "should" have to do. Get it ?

Off topic? You asked what was his point, he told you. That's not off topic, that's called answering your question you fucking idiot.

The "off topic" words were (quite obviously) referring to his talking about what an airline should have to do, when the topic is about what they NEEDED to do. Interesting how I have to explain that to you, when the explanation is already right there in my previous post, WHICH YOU QUOTED. And YOU are calling ME a "fucking idiot" ?? HA HA HA.

Oh you were looking in the mirror when you said that. OK.

As for his so-called "point", I didn't see a shred of evidence from him about his so-called 55 planes (which I tend to doubt, since other airlines were smartly avoiding the area, including the ones I specifically noted in the OP)

Whatever helps you sleep at night, pumpkin...

 

[Peach]

The left is trying desperately to pin the blame on Putin.

Why are those who do not adore Putin "left"? Putin was a Communist for decades. Because he duped Bush II? Every leader duped Bush, Cheney pulled the strings.

Claiming anyone adores Putin is a bit far fetched. It's just that he's made Obama look like a fool a few times here recently... It's all political bullshit. Probably CIA KGB

Obama didn't kiss his ass like George Bush, Obama has gotten the better of him on every ssue; you like Commies, so be it, USA RULES, always.

 

[dilloduck]

Why are those who do not adore Putin "left"? Putin was a Communist for decades. Because he duped Bush II? Every leader duped Bush, Cheney pulled the strings.

Claiming anyone adores Putin is a bit far fetched. It's just that he's made Obama look like a fool a few times here recently... It's all political bullshit. Probably CIA KGB

Obama didn't kiss his ass like George Bush, Obama has gotten the better of him on every ssue; you like Commies, so be it, USA RULES, always.

LMAO----Putin came in and saved Assad's ass right out from under Obama's nose.

 

[Jroc]

Why are those who do not adore Putin "left"? Putin was a Communist for decades. Because he duped Bush II? Every leader duped Bush, Cheney pulled the strings.

Claiming anyone adores Putin is a bit far fetched. It's just that he's made Obama look like a fool a few times here recently... It's all political bullshit. Probably CIA KGB

Obama didn't kiss his ass like George Bush, Obama has gotten the better of him on every ssue; you like Commies, so be it, USA RULES, always.

Really?..Come on really?

 

[Peach]

"the russians are not to blame" is pretty friken stupid in and of itself actually

Upon WHAT do you base that statement ?

The Russians supplied the weapons, they advised and trained the rebels how to use them..anything else?

Those that love a Communist wannabe dictator like Putin will never accept his evil deeds as HIS.

 

[MaryL]

I find it odd. Russia practically bans homosexuality, Homosexuals=AIDS and all that....Ironically, MH 17 was shot down by Russian separatists .The plane was packed by pro gay AIDS activists. The Irony of that.

 

[protectionist]

Research, USAF, etc. Lots of articles explaining how our flight experts reached their conclusions, I have posted many links.

If you were to post one here/now, your words might have more credibility. I see no links or sources.

I did, here again:

Ukraine Knew of Separatists' Air-Defense Capabilities, Say Officials - WSJ

U.S. Building Case Tying Pro-Russian Separatists To Plane Crash In Ukraine
Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine: What happened? | Fox 59
Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile, U.S. Officials Say - WSJ

I didn't read all 4 of your links yet, but I did read the Fox 59 link which says it was written by Tom Cohen. It also doesn't really say if the missle is fired by people, or automatically by computer. In any case, I don't know who Tom Cohen is, but as far as expertise regarding military hardware, I'm willing to go with a 4 star General (Barry McCaffery), who among other things was Deputy U.S. Representative to NATO; Assistant Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS); and Director of Strategic Plans and Policy, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and is now a military consultant for NBC and MSNBC.

 

[dilloduck]

I find it odd. Russia practically bans homosexuality, Homosexuals=AIDS and all that....Ironically, MH 17 was shot down by Russian separatists .The plane was packed by pro gay AIDS activists. The Irony of that.

even better---it was the same model plane that strangely veered of course and was lost---------was this one also "veered off course " ??

 

[Camp]

I find it odd. Russia practically bans homosexuality, Homosexuals=AIDS and all that....Ironically, MH 17 was shot down by Russian separatists .The plane was packed by pro gay AIDS activists. The Irony of that.

Ya, like wow. But it had almost just as many kids, toddlers and babies on board and they have a big orphan problem in Russia. Kids living on the streets and Moscow underground. The irony of that.

 

[Peach]

Claiming anyone adores Putin is a bit far fetched. It's just that he's made Obama look like a fool a few times here recently... It's all political bullshit. Probably CIA KGB

Obama didn't kiss his ass like George Bush, Obama has gotten the better of him on every ssue; you like Commies, so be it, USA RULES, always.

LMAO----Putin came in and saved Assad's ass right out from under Obama's nose.

No, Assad has been clinging to power, Bush gave Putin a pass on everything, and ISIS is taking Syria NOW.

Bush: "I looked into his soul" Putin pretended Bush was a real leader, Bush ate it up.

 

[Camp]

If you were to post one here/now, your words might have more credibility. I see no links or sources.

I did, here again:

Ukraine Knew of Separatists' Air-Defense Capabilities, Say Officials - WSJ

U.S. Building Case Tying Pro-Russian Separatists To Plane Crash In Ukraine
Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine: What happened? | Fox 59
Malaysia Airlines Plane Was Hit by Surface-to-Air Missile, U.S. Officials Say - WSJ

I didn't read all 4 of your links yet, but I did read the Fox 59 link which says it was written by Tom Cohen. It also doesn't really say if the missle is fired by people, or automatically by computer. In any case, I don't know who Tom Cohen is, but as far as expertise regarding military hardware, I'm willing to go with a 4 star General (Barry McCaffery), who among other things was Deputy U.S. Representative to NATO; Assistant Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS); and Director of Strategic Plans and Policy, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and is now a military consultant for NBC and MSNBC.

HQ-16 | World Heritage Encyclopedia

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Everybody seems to be quickly blaming the Russians and the Russian-supported Ukranian separatists, for the downing of the Malaysian passenger jet MH17. I disagree. The Russians, the separatists, and the Ukranians are involved in a war, which is really nobody's business but theirs. How would Americans like it if people in Russia said we in America should not rule over the island of Puerto Rico ?... and if Puerto Ricans rebelled, we should not send troops. And that the Russians might send arms to the Puerto rican separatists. We'd probably tell them to mind their own business.

I could understand if Putin was sending troops into Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland, in something reminiscient of Hitler's blitzkrieg upon Europe. But this is just a matter between 2 countries, which really ought to be nobody's business but theirs.

So what you have is a war combat zone. Well anyone in his right mind knows that is place to stay away from. Everyone but the people in Malaysia Airlines that is, and the dummies at the International Civil Aviation Organization, who the company has stupidly listened to. Malaysia Airlines said: “The usual flight route was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organsiation."

Well, if you see somebody climb to the top of the tallest bridge in your town, and jump off, do you do that too ? It should have been common sense to avoid a combat zone, and Malaysia Airlines and the ICAO both are the ones to blame fro being just plain STUPID. Other airlines rerouted their flights months ago when this zone became one of combat (Quantas, China Airlines, Korean Air, Asiana).

Professor Geoff Dell, a Central Queensland University accident investigation and safety specialist, said Malaysia Airlines should not have been flying over Ukraine.

“From as soon as the conflict started they shouldn’t have been going anywhere near it,’’ Prof Dell said. “They should’ve shifted to alternate routes, like all the other airlines seemed to have done.’’

So if anyone wants to blame anyone they should blame the officials at Malaysia Airlines and the International Civil Aviation Organization.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ukraine-conflict/story-e6frg95x-1226993474860

298 human beings died because some of us are still so mind numbingly unevolved we think war is a valid solution to our problems.

All of us bear some respnsibility for not booting politicians who don't resist war with their last breaths out of office.

 

[protectionist]

Had Russia not been trying to annex part of the Ukraine and arming rebels with anti-aircraft weapons, 300 innocent people would be alive today.

So what if Russia was trying to annex Ukraine ? Do you object to that ? If so, on what basis ?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrasqV7M2Vc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrasqV7M2Vc[/ame]

1994 legally binding agreement signed by Bill Clinton obligates America to defend Ukraine
at Forgotten treaty could drag U.S. into war with Russia

A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin’s troops cross into the country.

Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine – agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union

Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

Read more at Forgotten treaty could drag U.S. into war with Russia

And you would support this ? Commiting US troops to fight and die in Ukraine to stop them from being united with Russia ?

For all we know, it could be that the majority of Ukranians might WANT to be reunited as part of Russia (which it has been for centuries)

I hate to be pessimistic, but this seems to be shaping up very similar to how the US got involved in Vietnam, and wound up in a war with 58,000 lost US lives, for really no good reason at all. So Putin annexes Ukraine (which has always been Russian) ? So ? Didn't the USA annex Hawaii (which had never been American), and Alaska (which had never been American) ???? (without giving the native Hawaiins or Eskimo Alaskans much to say about it). (??????????)