Malaysian airliner missing with 239 people on board

[jon_berzerk]

They saw a plane. At night. With red stripes.

When I see planes at night its a couple of lights passing.

true

at night in the dark i can really only see white and shades of grey

 

[CaféAuLait]

They saw a plane. At night. With red stripes.

When I see planes at night its a couple of lights passing.

It wasn't at night it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives. The questionable thing may be the flight path, north to southeast, towards Addu. unless the pilots were trying to evade some waypoint or radar.

 

[CaféAuLait]

that is an interesting article though something that is odd

the plane flew right over the other airport

yet they didnt see the plane on their radar

strange

Yeah, I agree and said that somewhere in the beginning of this thread. Not to mention they had to fly all the way over Malaysian airspace and only 250 miles from their airport of origin in Kuala Lumpur.

 

[jon_berzerk]

that is an interesting article though something that is odd

the plane flew right over the other airport

yet they didnt see the plane on their radar

strange

Yeah, I agree and said that somewhere in the beginning of this thread. Not to mention they had to fly all the way over Malaysian airspace and only 250 miles from their airport of origin in Kuala Lumpur.

maybe the plane did land in Palau Langkawi has anyone looked there for it

 

[jon_berzerk]

They saw a plane. At night. With red stripes.

When I see planes at night its a couple of lights passing.

It wasn't at night it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives. The questionable thing may be the flight path, north to southeast, towards Addu. unless the pilots were trying to evade some waypoint or radar.

it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives

thanks

 

[CaféAuLait]

in an emergency

the rule is

aviate navigate communicate in that order

In short, fly the plane, then ask for help, everything else can wait?

Is there a set of rules /steps which dictate the captain should assure he is able to fly, such as donning a mask in case of fire?

i should have also said investigate

each airline has various sets of rules about smoke in the cabin or cockpit

air mask and smoke Googles are to be worn if you cant see you cant fly

yes they have emergency procedure checklists for various types of smoke

an actual fire in the cabin or cockpit would be even more intense

since the emergency has moved from smoke to fire

with an abbreviated checklist and ditch in the drink

Okay, in your opinion as a pilot, would a wheel well fire consume the cockpit that fast where they could not radio in and would not have had time to put on masks? I try to think of evading things in the car, and the split second decisions we make. I realize things go wrong in a heartbeat. Would the pilots have had so pre-warning there was fire and had time to call in with some fire warning system?

 

[CaféAuLait]

They saw a plane. At night. With red stripes.

When I see planes at night its a couple of lights passing.

It wasn't at night it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives. The questionable thing may be the flight path, north to southeast, towards Addu. unless the pilots were trying to evade some waypoint or radar.

it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives

thanks

Yeah, no problem. Given they made the supposed 'hard left' about 40 minutes from the airport of origin then back over Malaysia, it just might put them over the Maldives at 6:15 am. About 5.30 hours flying time?

 

[jon_berzerk]

It wasn't at night it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives. The questionable thing may be the flight path, north to southeast, towards Addu. unless the pilots were trying to evade some waypoint or radar.

it was 6:15 in the morning for them in the Maldives

thanks

Yeah, no problem. Given they made the supposed 'hard left' about 40 minutes from the airport of origin then back over Malaysia, it just might put them over the Maldives at 6:15 am. About 5.30 hours flying time?

sounds about right disregarding variables like wind and altitude

 

[jon_berzerk]

when there is talk about electrical smoke and fires on the 777

something to consider

The flight-control system for the 777 airplane is different from those on other Boeing airplane designs. Rather than have the airplane rely on cables to move the ailerons, elevator, and rudder, Boeing designed the 777 with fly-by-wire technology. As a result, the 777 uses wires to carry electrical signals from the pilot control wheel, column, and pedals to a primary flight computer.

Boeing: Boeing 777 Facts

 

[bianco]

BBC News - Malaysia missing plane: Relatives threaten hunger strike

Malaysia missing plane: Relatives threaten hunger strike

"Telling us lies": Relatives vented their anger during a meeting with officials

Relatives of the Chinese passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight have threatened a hunger strike if the Malaysian authorities fail to provide more accurate information.

Families vented their anger at a meeting with the airline in Beijing.

Officials in Malaysia say they are trying to narrow the search area, which now covers about 2.24m square nautical miles (7.68m sq km).

Flight MH370 went missing on 8 March with 239 people on board.

Some 25 countries are involved in looking for the plane.

#####

Going on a hunger strike won't do any good...all that will do is make the relatives sick.
Their loved ones who are missing will still be missing, and they'll be sick or dead.
A hunger strike is no use at all.

 

[CaféAuLait]

BBC News - Malaysia missing plane: Relatives threaten hunger strike

Malaysia missing plane: Relatives threaten hunger strike

"Telling us lies": Relatives vented their anger during a meeting with officials

Relatives of the Chinese passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight have threatened a hunger strike if the Malaysian authorities fail to provide more accurate information.

Families vented their anger at a meeting with the airline in Beijing.

Officials in Malaysia say they are trying to narrow the search area, which now covers about 2.24m square nautical miles (7.68m sq km).

Flight MH370 went missing on 8 March with 239 people on board.

Some 25 countries are involved in looking for the plane.

#####

Going on a hunger strike won't do any good...all that will do is make the relatives sick.
Their loved ones who are missing will still be missing, and they'll be sick or dead.
A hunger strike is no use at all.

I agree it won't do any good. Perhaps their intent is to bring the spotlight onto Malaysian authorities and their claims which in many a case proves lies and if "lies" is too strong, then misinformation. Maybe they believe they can get other countries to help. I posted an article from China media where the Chinese firmly believe they are being lied to.

 

[jon_berzerk]

In short, fly the plane, then ask for help, everything else can wait?

Is there a set of rules /steps which dictate the captain should assure he is able to fly, such as donning a mask in case of fire?

i should have also said investigate

each airline has various sets of rules about smoke in the cabin or cockpit

air mask and smoke Googles are to be worn if you cant see you cant fly

yes they have emergency procedure checklists for various types of smoke

an actual fire in the cabin or cockpit would be even more intense

since the emergency has moved from smoke to fire

with an abbreviated checklist and ditch in the drink

Okay, in your opinion as a pilot, would a wheel well fire consume the cockpit that fast where they could not radio in and would not have had time to put on masks? I try to think of evading things in the car, and the split second decisions we make. I realize things go wrong in a heartbeat. Would the pilots have had so pre-warning there was fire and had time to call in with some fire warning system?

there was a guy talking about a nose wheel fire as a possibility

a tire burns pretty hot

they the pilots would see lots of smoke first

they would have started the emergency smoke procedures

they would be

trying to fly the plane

put on masks

setting a course for a safe harbor

investigating the problem

trying to stop the smoke

communicating with crew

pulling circuits

they would be doing all those things plus more before they called anyone

by the location of a nose wheel tire

it would have raised a lot of problems with the electrical systems

 

[CaféAuLait]

Hummmm CNN is reporting information was deleted from the captains flight simulator and officials are trying to recover the data.

Official: Flight simulator had data deleted from it

http://www.local10.com/news/official-some-data-deleted-from-simulator/25047274

They are also stating reports about sightings in the Maldives where people claimed to see the plane is wrong (??) and they are sure the plane is someone along the southern arc of the last known coords, off the western coast of Australia.

 

[CaféAuLait]

i should have also said investigate

each airline has various sets of rules about smoke in the cabin or cockpit

air mask and smoke Googles are to be worn if you cant see you cant fly

yes they have emergency procedure checklists for various types of smoke

an actual fire in the cabin or cockpit would be even more intense

since the emergency has moved from smoke to fire

with an abbreviated checklist and ditch in the drink

Okay, in your opinion as a pilot, would a wheel well fire consume the cockpit that fast where they could not radio in and would not have had time to put on masks? I try to think of evading things in the car, and the split second decisions we make. I realize things go wrong in a heartbeat. Would the pilots have had so pre-warning there was fire and had time to call in with some fire warning system?

there was a guy talking about a nose wheel fire as a possibility

a tire burns pretty hot

they the pilots would see lots of smoke first

they would have started the emergency smoke procedures

they would be

trying to fly the plane

put on masks

setting a course for a safe harbor

investigating the problem

trying to stop the smoke

communicating with crew

pulling circuits

they would be doing all those things plus more before they called anyone

by the location of a nose wheel tire

it would have raised a lot of problems with the electrical systems

Thank you again for all your information!

 

[dannyboys]

Misinformation you mean.
The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.
The front wheels are the most at risk of any wheels. The hanger for the front wheels is designed to withstand fire and impact.
All wheel hangers are designed not to allow any smoke or debris to enter the interior of the plane. All wheel hangers have automatic fire suppression systems (note systems).
The 'front wheel' fire causing smoke to enter the cockpit is ludicrous.
"Next".

 

[dannyboys]

The search online for missing Malaysia Airlines FLIGHT MH370 | Mail Online
Note the profile of the plane from the sat. photo.
Is it the profile of a 777? You decide.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Misinformation you mean.
The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.
The front wheels are the most at risk of any wheels. The hanger for the front wheels is designed to withstand fire and impact.
All wheel hangers are designed not to allow any smoke or debris to enter the interior of the plane. All wheel hangers have automatic fire suppression systems (note systems).
The 'front wheel' fire causing smoke to enter the cockpit is ludicrous.
"Next".

The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.

bs


In (normal position, mechanically locked) – unlocks automatically for a fire warning, or ... Boeing B777 - Systems Summary [Fire Protection]. Page 1 .... The main gear wheel wells have a fire detection system, but no fire extinguishing system.

 

[dannyboys]

Misinformation you mean.
The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.
The front wheels are the most at risk of any wheels. The hanger for the front wheels is designed to withstand fire and impact.
All wheel hangers are designed not to allow any smoke or debris to enter the interior of the plane. All wheel hangers have automatic fire suppression systems (note systems).
The 'front wheel' fire causing smoke to enter the cockpit is ludicrous.
"Next".

The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.

bs


In (normal position, mechanically locked) – unlocks automatically for a fire warning, or ... Boeing B777 - Systems Summary [Fire Protection]. Page 1 .... The main gear wheel wells have a fire detection system, but no fire extinguishing system.

I stand corrected. Detection and Suppression are certainly different.
I do stand by the fact that smoke and or any debris can not enter the interior of the plane from the wheel hangers.
While not common tire fires do occur and all pilots are trained to deal specifically with this eventuality. Detection devices indicate the heat of the tire/s and all wheel hanger wells and the mechanical elements used to control the movement of the landing gear are specifically designed to withstand tire fires in modern aircraft.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Misinformation you mean.
The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.
The front wheels are the most at risk of any wheels. The hanger for the front wheels is designed to withstand fire and impact.
All wheel hangers are designed not to allow any smoke or debris to enter the interior of the plane. All wheel hangers have automatic fire suppression systems (note systems).
The 'front wheel' fire causing smoke to enter the cockpit is ludicrous.
"Next".

The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.

bs


In (normal position, mechanically locked) – unlocks automatically for a fire warning, or ... Boeing B777 - Systems Summary [Fire Protection]. Page 1 .... The main gear wheel wells have a fire detection system, but no fire extinguishing system.

I stand corrected. Detection and Suppression are certainly different.
I do stand by the fact that smoke and or any debris can not enter the interior of the plane from the wheel hangers.
While not common tire fires do occur and all pilots are trained to deal specifically with this eventuality. Detection devices indicate the heat of the tire/s and all wheel hanger wells and the mechanical elements used to control the movement of the landing gear are specifically designed to withstand tire fires in modern aircraft.

the procedure is simple if all things are equal

extend the gear

but who says all things had been equal in this flight

smoke can certainly enter the cabin from a wheel fire

if enough time goes by

 

[dannyboys]

The 777 has automatic fire suppression systems in each wheel hanger.

bs


In (normal position, mechanically locked) – unlocks automatically for a fire warning, or ... Boeing B777 - Systems Summary [Fire Protection]. Page 1 .... The main gear wheel wells have a fire detection system, but no fire extinguishing system.

I stand corrected. Detection and Suppression are certainly different.
I do stand by the fact that smoke and or any debris can not enter the interior of the plane from the wheel hangers.
While not common tire fires do occur and all pilots are trained to deal specifically with this eventuality. Detection devices indicate the heat of the tire/s and all wheel hanger wells and the mechanical elements used to control the movement of the landing gear are specifically designed to withstand tire fires in modern aircraft.

the procedure is simple if all things are equal

extend the gear

but who says all things had been equal in this flight

smoke can certainly enter the cabin from a wheel fire

if enough time goes by

The point of extending the gear is to burn off/out the tire fire ASAP. At a few hundred KPH that does not take long enough for any significant amount of smoke to get past the hanger seals.
All adjacent areas close by and all areas that would be exposed to the effects of a tire burning are constructed with special fire retardant materials specifically installed in the event of a burning tire.
The pilots are instantly automatically alerted to the heat alarm sensors within the wheel hanger and attacked to the tire valves should a tire catch fire.
Full cover oxygen masks provide enough oxygen for both pilots for the full duration of any commercial flight. It's the law.
IMO a tire fire did not cause the plane to crash, if that was what occurred.
IMO the co-pilot incapacitated the Captain then took control of the plane and he ended up crashing the plane either from pilot error of intentionally b/c of some mental/emotional disorder.
I knew a twenty five year old man for over ten years. Saw him almost daily. Dependable/straightforward/honest/loyal/fire fighter/salt of the earth type. Never any hint of him being crazy. One Christmas eve dinner with him and his lovely wife and kids and another dozen people he stood up and calmly told us all that what he had to say was very important: He had come to the dinner to tell us all present that he was in fact "the literal son of God". We ended up taking him to the hospital then he ended up staying in a gated mental hospital for about three years. Then he left the area. Maybe he went back to stay with his father in heaven.
Point is no one can predict what any one is capable of.