Man kicked out of town meeting for refusingto stand for Pledge

[Statistikhengst]

Yepp.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That Mayor should run for President

 

[Statistikhengst]

That could be interesting.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

Even if you don't agree with the pledge, you should show respect towards those who died to give you that right.

Why is it there such a big issue regarding standing for the pledge, "people shouldn't be forced into something", yet you will defend forcing someone into a decision over what health care they "should" carry. I find that concern of individual rights and freedom with regard to being "forced" into something quite laughable in comparison.

 

[Statistikhengst]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

Even if you don't agree with the pledge, you should show respect towards those who died to give you that right.

Why is it there such a big issue regarding standing for the pledge, "people shouldn't be forced into something", yet you will defend forcing someone into a decision over what health care they "should" carry. I find that concern of individual rights and freedom with regard to being "forced" into something quite laughable in comparison.

Actually, no big disagreement with you on the idea that people should not be forced into something. People should not be forced to have to deal with crazy assed neighbors who do open carry on the street with large weapons while wearing their underwear. Glad you agree with me on that one.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

 

[Statistikhengst]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

Can you point out examples where this is not happening? Of course, at times when students are not in class and supposed to be hitting the books and such..... please, do expatiate.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

Even if you don't agree with the pledge, you should show respect towards those who died to give you that right.

Why is it there such a big issue regarding standing for the pledge, "people shouldn't be forced into something", yet you will defend forcing someone into a decision over what health care they "should" carry. I find that concern of individual rights and freedom with regard to being "forced" into something quite laughable in comparison.

Actually, no big disagreement with you on the idea that people should not be forced into something. People should not be forced to have to deal with crazy assed neighbors who do open carry on the street with large weapons while wearing their underwear. Glad you agree with me on that one.

If you believe in individual liberty and show a concern for and interest in the common "respect" for others, I don't have a problem with it either.

 

[Esmeralda]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

It's not the same thing. Having the freedom of expression to not salute the flag or stand for the pledge of allegiance is not the same as separation of church and state. Prayer in school violates the Constitution. Not standing for the pledge of allegiance is a constitutional right. Totally different things.

 

[zeke]

Good, get the fuck out.

The Dem Party should have had a similar policy with this scumbag. Had Richardson kicked Obama in the ass, I would have voted for him

Indeed. A person who won't stand during the singing of the National Anthem, or refuses to recite the Pledge, or won't be man or woman enough to cover their heart when the Colors are presented - are scum.

This country and her people had better come to terms with their "feelings" about the United States and they had better do it quickly because their resolve is about to be tested mightily.

What do I tell these assholes? You hate this country so damned much? Get the fuck out of it. But disrespect the flag in front of me and I will knock the shit out of you. punk ass clowns piss me off.

Excuse me but if you are violent and physically attack me, I'll be on the phone to the police to have you arrested and drag you to jail. It's called "assault and battery." I will show up in court to testify so that I make sure you're put in prison for your crime.

I will then find the best lawyer possible to sue you for everything you have.

I will win because the constitution protects everyone from people like you.

WAA WAAA WAAA WAAA....Typical Nazi liberal - you detest the law until you can use it against someone, I'kll say it again - disrespect the flag in front of me and I';; slap the shit out of you. I'll take my chances in a court of law, Nazi.

And you wonder why this country is going to hell............

Not me. I read posts from people like you and figure there is no need to "wonder".
But slap the shit out of me? Isn't that why they have concealed carry? I guess you just take your chances nowadays. But you might want to think twice.

 

[Seawytch]

The totalitarians are out in force in this topic. It is funny how they get you should not force someone to buy the Pill for their employees, but don't get you should not force someone to speak words they don't want to speak.

Reminds me of the bad old days of loyalty oaths.

You mean like the 2012 Presidential race?

Virginia Republicans to require loyalty oath for primary voters

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

It's not the same thing. Having the freedom of expression to not salute the flag or stand for the pledge of allegiance is not the same as separation of church and state. Prayer in school violates the Constitution. Not standing for the pledge of allegiance is a constitutional right. Totally different things.

Except separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution, rather we find "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" is.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Ibentoken said: ↑

Next time you're in a courtroom and the judge enters the room, remain seated. Let us know how that goes.

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

The law affords judges the authority to make these determinations in their courtrooms, which is in no way related to citizens participating in a public forum where a mayor has no such authority.

you of course have no knowledge of whether the Mayor in that town has such authority.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

Even if you don't agree with the pledge, you should show respect towards those who died to give you that right.

Why is it there such a big issue regarding standing for the pledge, "people shouldn't be forced into something", yet you will defend forcing someone into a decision over what health care they "should" carry. I find that concern of individual rights and freedom with regard to being "forced" into something quite laughable in comparison.

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

In addition to being Constitutional, the ACA doesn't "force" anyone to do anything, where it is not government's place to compel citizens to "show respect."

 

[bodecea]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

It's not the same thing. Having the freedom of expression to not salute the flag or stand for the pledge of allegiance is not the same as separation of church and state. Prayer in school violates the Constitution. Not standing for the pledge of allegiance is a constitutional right. Totally different things.

Except separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution, rather we find "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" is.

So you support the State getting involved in Church?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

It's not the same thing. Having the freedom of expression to not salute the flag or stand for the pledge of allegiance is not the same as separation of church and state. Prayer in school violates the Constitution. Not standing for the pledge of allegiance is a constitutional right. Totally different things.

Except separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution, rather we find "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" is.

So you support the State getting involved in Church?

Wonder what Guno has to say about this

 

[Esmeralda]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

It's not the same thing. Having the freedom of expression to not salute the flag or stand for the pledge of allegiance is not the same as separation of church and state. Prayer in school violates the Constitution. Not standing for the pledge of allegiance is a constitutional right. Totally different things.

Except separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution, rather we find "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" is.

Mandate for the separation of church and state is in the US Constitution is implied in the Constitution's First Amendment "Establishment Clause," where "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." has been widely interpreted to mean that the government should not involve itself in religion in any way, including providing funds to support religious teaching in public schools, or allowing organized prayer in activities or facilities that receive government funds. Where is Separation of Church and State found in the US Constitution and how does the Supreme Court interpret this clause

It is in the First Amendment. If we get to ignore the amendments, let's also ignore the 2nd.

 

[Ibentoken]

Next time you're in a courtroom and the judge enters the room, remain seated. Let us know how that goes.

Because either criminal code or local ordinance requires it. That is NOT the case with the reciting of the pledge. Really, that concept is not hard to understand.

I didn't say it was hard to understand. I'm giving you an example of why it's done.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You can never remove protesters from any public event? Really?

I have the right to block traffic on 42nd and Lex and protest? Really?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That mayor was wrong to kick him out of that meeting.

I personally won't stand, put my hand to my heart and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. It's ridiculous to me to make such a big deal of a piece of cloth. I wish people would have the same feeling for our nation and our people as they do a piece of cloth. If that pledge said allegiance to America not a piece of cloth, I would have different feelings about it.

I won't lie and say "under god" either. I don't believe in the christian god and there's no way I'm going to lie about it.

I have sat quietly countless times as other people said that pledge. No one has ever said one word about it to me much less kick me out of a public meeting because of it.

Tolerance goes two ways. People are demanding tolerance for the pledge but don't think they should have tolerance for those who want to sit quietly and not say it.

That mayor violated that man's first amendment right to sit quietly while that pledge was said. If I were that man I would find a good lawyer to sue the mayor and the city that it occurred.

Much like the respectful tolerance of sitting quietly and showing "tolerance" for those who wish to silently pray in school. I'm a bit curious how far this definition and observance of tolerance actually goes for those who express the need for it?

It's not the same thing. Having the freedom of expression to not salute the flag or stand for the pledge of allegiance is not the same as separation of church and state. Prayer in school violates the Constitution. Not standing for the pledge of allegiance is a constitutional right. Totally different things.

Except separation of church and state is not written in the Constitution, rather we find "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" is.

Mandate for the separation of church and state is in the US Constitution is implied in the Constitution's First Amendment "Establishment Clause," where "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." has been widely interpreted to mean that the government should not involve itself in religion in any way, including providing funds to support religious teaching in public schools, or allowing organized prayer in activities or facilities that receive government funds. Where is Separation of Church and State found in the US Constitution and how does the Supreme Court interpret this clause

It is in the First Amendment. If we get to ignore the amendments, let's also ignore the 2nd.

You can ignore whatever the fuck you want, that does not mean I have to or will