Man kicked out of town meeting for refusingto stand for Pledge

[Darkwind]

Wow.....you are all over the place on this. Trying to play both sides of this. He was forced too stand....Thats where everyone should have stopped and said this was wrong

I'm not. I have been extremely consistent.

I have already said it was wrong to kick him out. HE was also wrong for not just simply standing up and remaining quiet. Just as he was willing to do when he wanted to sit.

It cost him nothing to stand, but it cost him a meeting to sit.

Or are you at this time, willing to say publicly and in front of the entire board that compromise is not necessary? Particularly compromise that costs nothing.

 

[Darkwind]

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

So, you are making things up now? Where is it said that I advocated blind allegiance?

He was NOT minding his own business, he was there to mind the business of the city/town he lived in. Standing silently is no more harmful than sitting silently. In this case, even less so.

one is forced and the other isnt...Its fun watching you guys jump through hoops in order to justify violating rights.
Gives people a good warning when it comes to other things.

So you have been reduced to dishonesty. That means I no longer need deal with you.

 

[Pennywise]

Wow.....you are all over the place on this. Trying to play both sides of this. He was forced too stand....Thats where everyone should have stopped and said this was wrong

I'm not. I have been extremely consistent.

I have already said it was wrong to kick him out. HE was also wrong for not just simply standing up and remaining quiet. Just as he was willing to do when he wanted to sit.

It cost him nothing to stand, but it cost him a meeting to sit.

Or are you at this time, willing to say publicly and in front of the entire board that compromise is not necessary? Particularly compromise that costs nothing.

No see, the compromise would have cost him his soul and the next thing you know he would have been goose-stepping into Poland.

 

[Plasmaball]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

 

[Darkwind]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

You must really hate Democrats then.

 

[Plasmaball]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

You must really hate Democrats then.

and punt....i see you have nothing left.

 

[R.D.]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

Why bother asking? Until you climb down from your pedestal, stick to actual facts there is not point in discussing it with "you people"

 

[Darkwind]

Wow.....you are all over the place on this. Trying to play both sides of this. He was forced too stand....Thats where everyone should have stopped and said this was wrong

I'm not. I have been extremely consistent.

I have already said it was wrong to kick him out. HE was also wrong for not just simply standing up and remaining quiet. Just as he was willing to do when he wanted to sit.

It cost him nothing to stand, but it cost him a meeting to sit.

Or are you at this time, willing to say publicly and in front of the entire board that compromise is not necessary? Particularly compromise that costs nothing.

No see, the compromise would have cost him his soul and the next thing you know he would have been goose-steeping into Poland.

LOL

Yeah...Myself, I've seen a lot of people sit quietly in a council meeting when the pledge was recited. People learn to just ignore that kind of disrespect. I learned that the guy who provides this kind of 'protest' in our little community pretty much gets backs turned to him frequently.

First Amendment works both ways.

 

[Darkwind]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

You must really hate Democrats then.

and punt....i see you have nothing left.

There is nothing to say to an apt description of progressives. Everyone already knows it.

 

[g5000]

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He most certainly was. And because he did not, he was punished. That is force.

No he was not. He was asked to 'Stand'. That was all he was asked to do. Comprehending what you read is crucial.

He was forced to leave!

He would not have been forced to leave if he had stood up.

Where, in the article or the entire episode, did the Mayor say he was required to recite the pledge?

I'll give you a hint. He never was. He was told to stand and show some respect.

Kicking him out of the meeting was wrong and there was no justification for it. However, it is flat out incorrect to say he was kicked out for not reciting the pledge.

When any citizen enters a courtroom, they must stand when the Judge presents. No matter what you think of the court system, the judge, or even the country, it is just a simple requirement.

Standing quietly is no different than sitting quietly if your intent is to simply ignore the ceremony.

It causes no harm to principle, person, or mental state.

If other people reciting the pledge causes someone mental distress, simply come in after the meeting has started.

Forcing someone to stand for a pledge is forcing them to make a symbolic gesture, which is speech. Speech just like burning a flag is speech.

Forcing him to stand for the pledge is no different than if someone forced you to burn a flag.

Topics like this are what convince me that there are a lot of people who claim to love the Constitution who have no clue about it.

 

[Plasmaball]

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

So, you are making things up now? Where is it said that I advocated blind allegiance?

He was NOT minding his own business, he was there to mind the business of the city/town he lived in. Standing silently is no more harmful than sitting silently. In this case, even less so.

one is forced and the other isnt...Its fun watching you guys jump through hoops in order to justify violating rights.
Gives people a good warning when it comes to other things.

So you have been reduced to dishonesty. That means I no longer need deal with you.

Well no, see a government agent stopped his freedom of speech, which was sitting there while the pledge happened.
This is not difficult to understand. Sorry this isnt duck dynasty where the morons all think that was a 1st amendment violation because he hated the gays.

 

[Plasmaball]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

You must really hate Democrats then.

and punt....i see you have nothing left.

There is nothing to say to an apt description of progressives. Everyone already knows it.

neat story..You don't like other people to have their rights. You would rather violate them in order get your way.

 

[Plasmaball]

Wow.....you are all over the place on this. Trying to play both sides of this. He was forced too stand....Thats where everyone should have stopped and said this was wrong

I'm not. I have been extremely consistent.

I have already said it was wrong to kick him out. HE was also wrong for not just simply standing up and remaining quiet. Just as he was willing to do when he wanted to sit.

It cost him nothing to stand, but it cost him a meeting to sit.

Or are you at this time, willing to say publicly and in front of the entire board that compromise is not necessary? Particularly compromise that costs nothing.

It cost him his 1st amendment....You are lying about the reality of what happened.

 

[Plasmaball]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

Ok and? He still had his rights violated. Sadly you people do not see this. So in reality who gives a shit about your opinion. I have zero use for authoritative, absolutism with patriotism.

Why bother asking? Until you climb down from your pedestal, stick to actual facts there is not point in discussing it with "you people"

I know, standing up for a basic right is standing on a pedestal. you people are a joke, and unamerican.

 

[Papageorgio]

The man does not have to stand and should not have been kicked out. It is a free country, the man is a free person, not a zombie forced to vocalize a pledge.

Was there a rule or law with the city requiring all to stand and participate? If not the guy has the freedom of choice on how he chooses to participate in government.

Now, was he an ass for not standing. That is another question.

 

[Darkwind]

Forcing someone to stand for a pledge is forcing them to make a symbolic gesture, which is speech. Speech just like burning a flag is speech.

Forcing him to stand for the pledge is no different than if someone forced you to burn a flag.

I was wondering if someone was going to try that angle. You are wrong of course.

Your analogy would then apply to the person also sitting in a chair silently being forced to make a symbolic gesture. The key to this whole thing is he was there voluntarily. That means he had prior knowledge that the pledge was going to be recited and deliberately opened himself up to exposure of the ceremony.

Until he can prove harm done to him by standing was more excessive than harm done to him by sitting, he is responsible for his exposure to the harm.

Since we both know, and he knows as well, that no harm was given to him in either circumstance, you have no argument.

Now, lets deal with some of the facts on the ground.

There is case law that deals with 'assumption of risk'. It usually deals with things like sports, but is applicable in this case. When you attend a government function, no matter at what level, it is expected that ceremony will be initiated.

He had the option of waiting until the pledge was recited and the meeting started to enter the meeting with no requirement at all for him to stand, sit, jack off, or blow his nose.

 

[Darkwind]

The man does not have to stand and should not have been kicked out. It is a free country, the man is a free person, not a zombie forced to vocalize a pledge.

Was there a rule or law with the city requiring all to stand and participate? If not the guy has the freedom of choice on how he chooses to participate in government.

Now, was he an ass for not standing. That is another question.

I've not seen anyone say it was not wrong to kick him out of the meeting.

 

[Rikurzhen]

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He most certainly was. And because he did not, he was punished. That is force.

No he was not. He was asked to 'Stand'. That was all he was asked to do. Comprehending what you read is crucial.

He was forced to leave!

He would not have been forced to leave if he had stood up.

Where, in the article or the entire episode, did the Mayor say he was required to recite the pledge?

I'll give you a hint. He never was. He was told to stand and show some respect.

Kicking him out of the meeting was wrong and there was no justification for it. However, it is flat out incorrect to say he was kicked out for not reciting the pledge.

When any citizen enters a courtroom, they must stand when the Judge presents. No matter what you think of the court system, the judge, or even the country, it is just a simple requirement.

Standing quietly is no different than sitting quietly if your intent is to simply ignore the ceremony.

It causes no harm to principle, person, or mental state.

If other people reciting the pledge causes someone mental distress, simply come in after the meeting has started.

Forcing someone to stand for a pledge is forcing them to make a symbolic gesture, which is speech. Speech just like burning a flag is speech.

Forcing him to stand for the pledge is no different than if someone forced you to burn a flag.

Topics like this are what convince me that there are a lot of people who claim to love the Constitution who have no clue about it.

We have restrictions on hate speech, liberals freaking love those, so it's time to expand them to include behavior like this.

 

[Darkwind]

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

So, you are making things up now? Where is it said that I advocated blind allegiance?

He was NOT minding his own business, he was there to mind the business of the city/town he lived in. Standing silently is no more harmful than sitting silently. In this case, even less so.

one is forced and the other isnt...Its fun watching you guys jump through hoops in order to justify violating rights.
Gives people a good warning when it comes to other things.

So you have been reduced to dishonesty. That means I no longer need deal with you.

Well no, see a government agent stopped his freedom of speech, which was sitting there while the pledge happened.
This is not difficult to understand. Sorry this isnt duck dynasty where the morons all think that was a 1st amendment violation because he hated the gays.

I see that you have nothing more to offer....have a pleasant night.

 

[Plasmaball]

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

So, you are making things up now? Where is it said that I advocated blind allegiance?

He was NOT minding his own business, he was there to mind the business of the city/town he lived in. Standing silently is no more harmful than sitting silently. In this case, even less so.

one is forced and the other isnt...Its fun watching you guys jump through hoops in order to justify violating rights.
Gives people a good warning when it comes to other things.

So you have been reduced to dishonesty. That means I no longer need deal with you.

Well no, see a government agent stopped his freedom of speech, which was sitting there while the pledge happened.
This is not difficult to understand. Sorry this isnt duck dynasty where the morons all think that was a 1st amendment violation because he hated the gays.

I see that you have nothing more to offer....have a pleasant night.

yeah...i know...its hard to argue and look like you are the right side when you are against the 1st amendment.