Man kicked out of town meeting for refusingto stand for Pledge

[Darkwind]

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He most certainly was. And because he did not, he was punished. That is force.

No he was not. He was asked to 'Stand'. That was all he was asked to do. Comprehending what you read is crucial.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Part of living in a civilized society is not being an obstinate ass just because. If you aren't crippled, stand up and be quiet.

how unamerican

I'm largely a traditionalist and if something is traditional and is not harming anyone, only a childish twit would make a spectacle of himself over it. Pretty silly.

So exercising your civil rights is now making a spectacle of yourself? I'm pretty sure it's the people that got butt hurt about his refusal to stand who made the spectacle out of the situation.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Oh, I think the 1st amendment activist was a dick for doing what he did.

Only, he has a right to do it.

Gunnutz should be defending this guy to the hilt.

The Mayor had the right to have him escorted out too.

based on what? His freedom of speech was violated here.

You're making an invalid claim here.

Not being able to sit somewhere quietly is NOT a freedom of speech issue.

 

[bodecea]

Oh, I think the 1st amendment activist was a dick for doing what he did.

Only, he has a right to do it.

Gunnutz should be defending this guy to the hilt.

The Mayor had the right to have him escorted out too.

Only if it is expressly written in that town's ordinances, and then, it could be easily challenged in court and would surely lose.

There has to be a "Town ordinance" before the Mayor can act?

The protester was being disruptive. Personally I would have had the family of active service members escort the guy out

Actually, he sounded quite polite...it's the mayor who was disruptive, IMO.

 

[Darkwind]

Oh, I think the 1st amendment activist was a dick for doing what he did.

Only, he has a right to do it.

Gunnutz should be defending this guy to the hilt.

The Mayor had the right to have him escorted out too.

Only if it is expressly written in that town's ordinances, and then, it could be easily challenged in court and would surely lose.

There has to be a "Town ordinance" before the Mayor can act?

The protester was being disruptive. Personally I would have had the family of active service members escort the guy out

Actually, he sounded quite polite...it's the mayor who was disruptive, IMO.

Well, no. The Mayor was just simply wrong.

 

[Plasmaball]

Oh, I think the 1st amendment activist was a dick for doing what he did.

Only, he has a right to do it.

Gunnutz should be defending this guy to the hilt.

The Mayor had the right to have him escorted out too.

Only if it is expressly written in that town's ordinances, and then, it could be easily challenged in court and would surely lose.

There has to be a "Town ordinance" before the Mayor can act?

The protester was being disruptive. Personally I would have had the family of active service members escort the guy out

thats because you are retarded. again you would rather violate his first amendment than ignore it.

 

[R.D.]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He was asked to stand, not recite it.

so what

You cant have your own facts. The ops facts are what matters

 

[g5000]

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He most certainly was. And because he did not, he was punished. That is force.

No he was not. He was asked to 'Stand'. That was all he was asked to do. Comprehending what you read is crucial.

He was forced to leave! Standing for a pledge is a gesture, a form of symbolic speech he was being forced to do.

 

[Pennywise]

Part of living in a civilized society is not being an obstinate ass just because. If you aren't crippled, stand up and be quiet.

how unamerican

I'm largely a traditionalist and if something is traditional and is not harming anyone, only a childish twit would make a spectacle of himself over it. Pretty silly.

So exercising your civil rights is now making a spectacle of yourself? I'm pretty sure it's the people that got butt hurt about his refusal to stand who made the spectacle out of the situation.

I find generally, the problem with certain people is that they are so obsessed with Ron Paul that they would prefer to live in anarchy than feel obliged to occasionally just partake in a harmless act of civility. Everything to some people becomes a Rosa Parks moment out of sheer juvenile stubbornness. I don't think the man should have been forced to stand, I think if he was a decent person without a chip on his shoulder he would have simply stood up and remained silent.

 

[Darkwind]

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He most certainly was. And because he did not, he was punished. That is force.

No he was not. He was asked to 'Stand'. That was all he was asked to do. Comprehending what you read is crucial.

He was forced to leave!

He would not have been forced to leave if he had stood up.

Where, in the article or the entire episode, did the Mayor say he was required to recite the pledge?

I'll give you a hint. He never was. He was told to stand and show some respect.

Kicking him out of the meeting was wrong and there was no justification for it. However, it is flat out incorrect to say he was kicked out for not reciting the pledge.

When any citizen enters a courtroom, they must stand when the Judge presents. No matter what you think of the court system, the judge, or even the country, it is just a simple requirement.

Standing quietly is no different than sitting quietly if your intent is to simply ignore the ceremony.

It causes no harm to principle, person, or mental state.

If other people reciting the pledge causes someone mental distress, simply come in after the meeting has started.

 

[Plasmaball]

Part of living in a civilized society is not being an obstinate ass just because. If you aren't crippled, stand up and be quiet.

how unamerican

I'm largely a traditionalist and if something is traditional and is not harming anyone, only a childish twit would make a spectacle of himself over it. Pretty silly.

So exercising your civil rights is now making a spectacle of yourself? I'm pretty sure it's the people that got butt hurt about his refusal to stand who made the spectacle out of the situation.

I find generally, the problem with certain people is that they are so obsessed with Ron Paul that they would prefer to live in anarchy than feel obliged to occasionally just partake in a harmless act of civility. Everything to some people becomes a Rosa Parks moment out of sheer juvenile stubbornness. I don't think the man should have been forced to stand, I think if he was a decent person without a chip on his shoulder he would have simply stood up and remained silent.

or he good have just sat there which his right and not have his right violated.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

At least they didnt arrest him fpr speaking up or taze him.

 

[rightwinger]

What good is a pledge if you are forced to give it?

Any pledge should by definition, be voluntary

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He was asked to stand. Unless he had a physical ailment, it costs nothing to provide a little respect to people who do take the pledge serious.

He was also asked to stand for an invocation which he also declined

The pledge is not our national anthem. A pledge is voluntarily given and all those making a pledge should stand and say the words

If it is a true pledge of allegiance you should only have to say it once in your lifetime. Why would a pledge expire after only one day?

Comprehension is a requirement in life.

He was never asked to recite the pledge, nor was he asked to accept beliefs of others.

Standing does not endorse the activity. It is a simple courtesy like saying, "Thank you" when someone does something that helps you.

He was free to be crass, and I have already stated that the Mayor was wrong for kicking him out. However, give and take is a two-way street. He wanted respect from the Mayor and the town citizens; he needs to provide respect of them as well.

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

 

[Pennywise]

Part of living in a civilized society is not being an obstinate ass just because. If you aren't crippled, stand up and be quiet.

how unamerican

I'm largely a traditionalist and if something is traditional and is not harming anyone, only a childish twit would make a spectacle of himself over it. Pretty silly.

So exercising your civil rights is now making a spectacle of yourself? I'm pretty sure it's the people that got butt hurt about his refusal to stand who made the spectacle out of the situation.

I find generally, the problem with certain people is that they are so obsessed with Ron Paul that they would prefer to live in anarchy than feel obliged to occasionally just partake in a harmless act of civility. Everything to some people becomes a Rosa Parks moment out of sheer juvenile stubbornness. I don't think the man should have been forced to stand, I think if he was a decent person without a chip on his shoulder he would have simply stood up and remained silent.

or he good have just sat there which his right and not have his right violated.

The very act of sitting was making a spectacle of himself. There's nothing wrong with following the protocols of the town meetings. The guy was looking for a fight and he got it.

 

[Plasmaball]

He wasn't being forced to take a pledge or give an oath.

He most certainly was. And because he did not, he was punished. That is force.

No he was not. He was asked to 'Stand'. That was all he was asked to do. Comprehending what you read is crucial.

He was forced to leave!

He would not have been forced to leave if he had stood up.



I'll give you a hint. He never was. He was told to stand and show some respect.

Kicking him out of the meeting was wrong and there was no justification for it. However, it is flat out incorrect to say he was kicked out for not reciting the pledge.

When any citizen enters a courtroom, they must stand when the Judge presents. No matter what you think of the court system, the judge, or even the country, it is just a simple requirement.

Standing quietly is no different than sitting quietly if your intent is to simply ignore the ceremony.

It causes no harm to principle, person, or mental state.

If other people reciting the pledge causes someone mental distress, simply come in after the meeting has started.

Wow.....you are all over the place on this. Trying to play both sides of this. He was forced too stand....Thats where everyone should have stopped and said this was wrong

 

[Rikurzhen]

Are there really USMB members who think that this man does not have the right to sit quietly while others recite a pledge?

Go figure.

It's interesting to watch left wingers' reactions on this issue. They seem to believe that citizenship is a one-way street. This man should be free to disregard community/national norms but if he were to lose his job, then liberals would expect that all other taxpayers come to his aid and provide him with food stamps and welfare. The community OWES to the individual but the individual can tell the community to fuck off.

Society is nothing more than a scaled up tribe. If we were dealing with a trouble-maker at the tribal level this guy would be given an invitation to go and find another tribe which thinks like he does. Banishment. Too bad we've done away with that concept.

 

[Darkwind]

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

So, you are making things up now? Where is it said that I advocated blind allegiance?

He was NOT minding his own business, he was there to mind the business of the city/town he lived in. Standing silently is no more harmful than sitting silently. In this case, even less so.

 

[Plasmaball]

Part of living in a civilized society is not being an obstinate ass just because. If you aren't crippled, stand up and be quiet.

how unamerican

I'm largely a traditionalist and if something is traditional and is not harming anyone, only a childish twit would make a spectacle of himself over it. Pretty silly.

So exercising your civil rights is now making a spectacle of yourself? I'm pretty sure it's the people that got butt hurt about his refusal to stand who made the spectacle out of the situation.

I find generally, the problem with certain people is that they are so obsessed with Ron Paul that they would prefer to live in anarchy than feel obliged to occasionally just partake in a harmless act of civility. Everything to some people becomes a Rosa Parks moment out of sheer juvenile stubbornness. I don't think the man should have been forced to stand, I think if he was a decent person without a chip on his shoulder he would have simply stood up and remained silent.

or he good have just sat there which his right and not have his right violated.

The very act of sitting was making a spectacle of himself. There's nothing wrong with following the protocols of the town meetings. The guy was looking for a fight and he got it.

The protocol s the first amendment....Thats really where this story ends. His was violated, end of story. You can attempt to justify this how ever you like, but in america you are not forced to stand when the pledge is given. It is optional. You will loose this every time whether you think he wasnt being polite or not.

 

[Plasmaball]

Blind allegiance is not allegiance

He was not being crass. He was sitting, minding his own business. It was the mayor who was being crass, insisting that everyone conform

So, you are making things up now? Where is it said that I advocated blind allegiance?

He was NOT minding his own business, he was there to mind the business of the city/town he lived in. Standing silently is no more harmful than sitting silently. In this case, even less so.

one is forced and the other isnt...Its fun watching you guys jump through hoops in order to justify violating rights.
Gives people a good warning when it comes to other things.

 

[Pennywise]

Part of living in a civilized society is not being an obstinate ass just because. If you aren't crippled, stand up and be quiet.

how unamerican

I'm largely a traditionalist and if something is traditional and is not harming anyone, only a childish twit would make a spectacle of himself over it. Pretty silly.

So exercising your civil rights is now making a spectacle of yourself? I'm pretty sure it's the people that got butt hurt about his refusal to stand who made the spectacle out of the situation.

I find generally, the problem with certain people is that they are so obsessed with Ron Paul that they would prefer to live in anarchy than feel obliged to occasionally just partake in a harmless act of civility. Everything to some people becomes a Rosa Parks moment out of sheer juvenile stubbornness. I don't think the man should have been forced to stand, I think if he was a decent person without a chip on his shoulder he would have simply stood up and remained silent.

or he good have just sat there which his right and not have his right violated.

The very act of sitting was making a spectacle of himself. There's nothing wrong with following the protocols of the town meetings. The guy was looking for a fight and he got it.

The protocol s the first amendment....Thats really where this story ends. His was violated, end of story. You can attempt to justify this how ever you like, but in america you are not forced to stand when the pledge is given. It is optional. You will loose this every time whether you think he wasnt being polite or not.

The first amendment is not a protocol, it's a human right.

You and your allies on this issue are coming off like silly children. Just like the guy refusing to stand. Goofy