Man uses his concealed gun to save life of woman entering abortion clinic...likely there to kill her baby. Leftists cry.

[2aguy]

I dont know if that number is correct but the logic is pure lib

Punish good people for the actions of the ctiminals

It doesn't matter how they take it. That's not what was being discussed. Nobody has the right to use physical violence unless they were attacked which Martin wasn't. Everything is on the 911 call.

Zimmerman chased after Martin for about 10 seconds or so. Zimmerman admitted he lost Martin because he outran him so quickly. Martin hid between the houses and Zimmerman continued his call with the police dispatcher for another minute. While walking back to his truck, Martin seen he was off the phone and violently attacked him.

So where is it written how many were law abiding citizens that legally owned their firearm they murdered with?

That's a good question. You see, Kellerman did this study where he found a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, and the response by the NRA was to demand that the CDC never do a gun study again.

Because the only way to control crime is with a strong enough deterrent; death is the ultimate deterrent, that's why. The mere sight of a gun pointed at you is enough to stop just about anything illegal that you're doing. Criminals may be stupid, but they know that anybody getting involved in their actions has the legal authority to use that deadly weapon. They shoot or kill you, they're going to prison. You shoot or kill them, the police call your gun in, check your license, and you go home and have a bologna sandwich.

If you are desperate enough to risk jail and commit a crime, you aren't going to be easily deterred by Marvin Milqtoast pointing a gun at you.

The reason they don't break into an occupied home is because they don't know if you have a gun or not.

No, the reason why they don't break into an occuppied home is that they don't want to be identified.

The Europeans and Japanese don't have guns, they have lower burglary rates than we have.

You lie....you are insane....

That's a good question. You see, Kellerman did this study where he found a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, and the response by the NRA was to demand that the CDC never do a gun study again.

Moron...actual researchers looked at his study and said it was wrong.....he then did it over.....and came up with the number 2.7 but his underlying mistakes were still in the work....you idiot.....we have shown you this over and over again....

The CDC was not banned from doing gun research, you idiot...I have listed the gun research they did after the 90s....you moron........

This is some gun research from the CEC in 2006....

Violence-Related Firearm Deaths Among Residents of Metropolitan Areas and Cities --- United States, 2006--2007

And this one....2003

Source of Firearms Used by Students in School-Associated Violent Deaths --- United States, 1992--1999

And this one....

http://www.thecommunityguide.org/violence/viol-AJPM-evrev-firearms-law.pdf

And this one....2001

Surveillance for Fatal and Nonfatal Firearm-Related Injuries --- United States, 1993--1998

And this one....2013

Firearm Homicides and Suicides in Major Metropolitan Areas — United States, 2006–2007 and 2009–2010

And this one...2014

Indoor Firing Ranges and Elevated Blood Lead Levels — United States, 2002–2013

And this one....

Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children -- 26 Industrialized Countries


==================

The Deleware study of 2015...

When Gun Violence Felt Like a Disease, a City in Delaware Turned to the C.D.C. (Published 2015)

When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.

They were here to examine gun violence.
This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------

The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.
“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,” the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”
Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.


------------------
Why Congress stopped gun control activism at the CDC

I was one of three medical doctors who testified before the House’s Labor, Health, Human Services, and Education Appropriations Subcommittee on March 6, 1996 about the CDC’s misdeeds. (Note: This testimony and related events are described in my three-part documented historical series). Here is what we showed the committee:

• Dr. Arthur Kellermann’s1993 New England Journal of Medicine article that launched his career as a rock star gun control advocate and gave rise to the much-repeated “three times” fallacy. His research was supported by two CDC grants.

Kellermann and his colleagues used the case control method, traditionally an epidemiology research tool, to claim that having a gun in the home triples the risk of becoming a homicide victim. In the article Kellermann admitted that “a majority of the homicides (50.9 percent) occurred in the context of a quarrel or a romantic triangle.” Still another 30 percent “were related to drug dealing” or “occurred during the commission of another felony, such as a robbery, rape, or burglary.”

In summary, the CDC funded a flawed study of crime-prone inner city residents who had been murdered in their homes. The authors then tried to equate this wildly unrepresentative group with typical American gun owners. The committee members were not amused.

• The Winter 1993 CDC official publication, Public Health Policy for Preventing Violence, coauthored by CDC official Dr. Mark Rosenberg. This taxpayer-funded gun control polemic offered two strategies for preventing firearm injuries—“restrictive licensing (for example, only police, military, guards, and so on)” and “prohibit gun ownership.”
• The brazen public comments of top CDC officials, made at a time when gun prohibitionists were much more candid about their political goals.

“We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.” (P.W. O’Carroll, Acting Section Head of Division of Injury Control, CDC, quoted in Marsha F. Goldsmith, “Epidemiologists Aim at New Target: Health Risk of Handgun Proliferation,” Journal of the American Medical Association vol. 261 no. 5, February 3, 1989, pp. 675-76.) Dr. O’Carroll later said he had been misquoted.

But his successor Dr. Mark Rosenberg was quoted in the Washington Post as wanting his agency to create a public perception of firearms as “dirty, deadly—and banned.” (William Raspberry, “Sick People With Guns,” Washington Post, October 19, 1994.

• CDC Grant #R49/CCR903697-06 to the Trauma Foundation, a San Francisco gun control advocacy group, supporting a newsletter that frankly advocated gun control.

 

[2aguy]

Moron......the gang member shooting the rival over a girlfriend isn't on "gang" business, you idiot...so it doesn't count as a gang shooting, you moron.

The gang member shooting up a rival gang party isn't doing "gang" business.......so it doesn't count as a gang shooting, you moron.

Except that this is the only agency actually tracking gang violence... and it's not as bad as you claim it is.

"Gang related"... that means the perp is in a gang.

Again, it would be nice if we actually DID gun studies to find out how many of our 15,000 gun homicides were in fact domestic violence, but the NRA demanded the CDC stop studying gun violence after Kellerman.

The question is how do we get to your utopian nation without firearms?

There are an estimated 434 million firearms in our nation today. Most firearms and ammo will last and function indefinitely with reasonable care and storage.

You can pass laws requiring all firearms to be turned in but criminals and a high percentage of citizens will simply refuse to comply. Plus Americans have a significant level of distrust for government and many citizens believe the first sign of a tyrannical government taking over a nation is the banning and confiscation of firearms.

Well, here's how I would do it. First, yes, honestly, most people won't turn in their guns... but I'd be just as happy if they just hid them in a closet somewhere.

The first thing to do is hold the Gun Industry accountable by removing the liability immunity for gun sales. You sell a gun to Joker Holmes, his victims should be able to sue you for negligence. Watch how fast the gun industry gets really responsible about who they sell to.

The second thing I would do is to disqualify gun manufacturers from Federal contracts if they don't comply with regulations. Since 40% of gun sales are to government agencies, no one will want to lose their best customer.

if you are the kind of nut who is stockpiling guns to fight the government, most of your neighbors will be happy when the ATF removes you from the gene pool.

All over this nation gun sanctuary counties and states are springIng up. The local law enforcement in those counties and states will not cooperate in gun confiscation efforts.

You need to find a wizard who will cast a spell instantly making all firearms disappear. Good luck with that as such wizards are extremely rare and hard to find today.

No, you just make the ATF as absolutely feared as the IRS. The IRS doesn't need to go to each and every house to collect tax forms. The mere fear of an IRS audit or garnishment does that.

We have plenty of gun laws on the books now, but they aren't enforced. The ATF only has 2500 agents.

You also pick your targets carefully. Take out the nut who is stockpiling dozens of guns and make an example of him. Then the person who has that gun in his closet he bought in the 1990's isn't going to be that keen on keeping it.

You are an idiot.....


Again, it would be nice if we actually DID gun studies to find out how many of our 15,000 gun homicides were in fact domestic violence, but the NRA demanded the CDC stop studying gun violence after Kellerman.

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Mac-7]

The Europeans and Japanese don't have guns, they have lower burglary rates than we have.

Japan yes

Euros no

Countries Compared by Crime > Burglaries. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Number of burglaries recorded by police in that country per 100,000 population.

www.nationmaster.com

 

[woodwork201]

Moron......the gang member shooting the rival over a girlfriend isn't on "gang" business, you idiot...so it doesn't count as a gang shooting, you moron.

The gang member shooting up a rival gang party isn't doing "gang" business.......so it doesn't count as a gang shooting, you moron.

Except that this is the only agency actually tracking gang violence... and it's not as bad as you claim it is.

"Gang related"... that means the perp is in a gang.

Again, it would be nice if we actually DID gun studies to find out how many of our 15,000 gun homicides were in fact domestic violence, but the NRA demanded the CDC stop studying gun violence after Kellerman.

The question is how do we get to your utopian nation without firearms?

There are an estimated 434 million firearms in our nation today. Most firearms and ammo will last and function indefinitely with reasonable care and storage.

You can pass laws requiring all firearms to be turned in but criminals and a high percentage of citizens will simply refuse to comply. Plus Americans have a significant level of distrust for government and many citizens believe the first sign of a tyrannical government taking over a nation is the banning and confiscation of firearms.

Well, here's how I would do it. First, yes, honestly, most people won't turn in their guns... but I'd be just as happy if they just hid them in a closet somewhere.

The first thing to do is hold the Gun Industry accountable by removing the liability immunity for gun sales. You sell a gun to Joker Holmes, his victims should be able to sue you for negligence. Watch how fast the gun industry gets really responsible about who they sell to.

The second thing I would do is to disqualify gun manufacturers from Federal contracts if they don't comply with regulations. Since 40% of gun sales are to government agencies, no one will want to lose their best customer.

if you are the kind of nut who is stockpiling guns to fight the government, most of your neighbors will be happy when the ATF removes you from the gene pool.

All over this nation gun sanctuary counties and states are springIng up. The local law enforcement in those counties and states will not cooperate in gun confiscation efforts.

You need to find a wizard who will cast a spell instantly making all firearms disappear. Good luck with that as such wizards are extremely rare and hard to find today.

No, you just make the ATF as absolutely feared as the IRS. The IRS doesn't need to go to each and every house to collect tax forms. The mere fear of an IRS audit or garnishment does that.

We have plenty of gun laws on the books now, but they aren't enforced. The ATF only has 2500 agents.

You also pick your targets carefully. Take out the nut who is stockpiling dozens of guns and make an example of him. Then the person who has that gun in his closet he bought in the 1990's isn't going to be that keen on keeping it.

I assume, then, that you support permitting families of those killed by drunk drivers to sue the distillery, the car maker, the care seller, the gasoline seller and, as long as we're at it, Hanes or Fruit of the Loom, depending on the preference of the killer?

 

[woodwork201]

I had some guns stolen and the thieves were caught. None of them, including the fence, a twice-convicted felon, that the thieves sold the guns to and from whom the police recovered the guns were charged with any crime.

The carelessness is in Democrats voting for DAs and judges who let criminals go without punishment for very serious crimes. They create a lawless society for criminals and then, blaming the law-abiding for crime, pass laws punishing the law abiding.

A lot of our crime problems, especially those committed with a gun could be stopped, but making much more severe penalties on criminals who use guns wouldn't disarm the public which is their ultimate goal. As I mentioned earlier, if we had it that if you are caught with a stolen gun, you face a 20 year minimum prison sentence, the underground gun market would dry up. Many less gun thefts since there would be many less people who would want to buy them.

I generally dislike gun add-ons; robbing should carry a very stiff penalty whether it's with a knife or a gun. But possession of a stolen gun is not an add-on; it's the crime itself. I like 20 years minimum. Maybe 30 to 40 years for selling a stolen gun. Maybe life for selling more than one.

 

[Batcat]

Moron......the gang member shooting the rival over a girlfriend isn't on "gang" business, you idiot...so it doesn't count as a gang shooting, you moron.

The gang member shooting up a rival gang party isn't doing "gang" business.......so it doesn't count as a gang shooting, you moron.

Except that this is the only agency actually tracking gang violence... and it's not as bad as you claim it is.

"Gang related"... that means the perp is in a gang.

Again, it would be nice if we actually DID gun studies to find out how many of our 15,000 gun homicides were in fact domestic violence, but the NRA demanded the CDC stop studying gun violence after Kellerman.

The question is how do we get to your utopian nation without firearms?

There are an estimated 434 million firearms in our nation today. Most firearms and ammo will last and function indefinitely with reasonable care and storage.

You can pass laws requiring all firearms to be turned in but criminals and a high percentage of citizens will simply refuse to comply. Plus Americans have a significant level of distrust for government and many citizens believe the first sign of a tyrannical government taking over a nation is the banning and confiscation of firearms.

Well, here's how I would do it. First, yes, honestly, most people won't turn in their guns... but I'd be just as happy if they just hid them in a closet somewhere.

The first thing to do is hold the Gun Industry accountable by removing the liability immunity for gun sales. You sell a gun to Joker Holmes, his victims should be able to sue you for negligence. Watch how fast the gun industry gets really responsible about who they sell to.

The second thing I would do is to disqualify gun manufacturers from Federal contracts if they don't comply with regulations. Since 40% of gun sales are to government agencies, no one will want to lose their best customer.

if you are the kind of nut who is stockpiling guns to fight the government, most of your neighbors will be happy when the ATF removes you from the gene pool.

All over this nation gun sanctuary counties and states are springIng up. The local law enforcement in those counties and states will not cooperate in gun confiscation efforts.

You need to find a wizard who will cast a spell instantly making all firearms disappear. Good luck with that as such wizards are extremely rare and hard to find today.

No, you just make the ATF as absolutely feared as the IRS. The IRS doesn't need to go to each and every house to collect tax forms. The mere fear of an IRS audit or garnishment does that.

We have plenty of gun laws on the books now, but they aren't enforced. The ATF only has 2500 agents.

You also pick your targets carefully. Take out the nut who is stockpiling dozens of guns and make an example of him. Then the person who has that gun in his closet he bought in the 1990's isn't going to be that keen on keeping it.

What do you do about the survivalists who have a buried cache of firearms and ammo? I have been reading articles in gun magazines since the 1970s on how to create a cache using PVC pipe and Cosmolene or desiccants.

Over the years I have also heard a lot of people wonder why some gun owners buy so many firearms. Perhaps they just want to be sure they have access to firearms and ammo no matter what.

For those who are interested there are plenty of instructions you can find on the web on how to set up a gun cache. Google is your friend.

I would also remind you that confiscating guns in a country or state that is a gun sanctuary is not going to be simple as the locals will not cooperate with the Feds. If things get real dicey the Feds may find gun owners following them around making their life difficult.

 

[JoeB131]

When you can post a reliable source of evidence, do it. The NRA has no power over a federal bureaucracy. The Kellerman studies are all padded with phony numbers. Nobody pays any attention to the anti-gun group.

A lot of criminals would never actually shoot anybody. They use a gun to get what they want. We see this all the time where a store owner is fed up with getting robbed, pulls out a gun from behind the counter and starts shooting at the robber. The robber just runs out of the store.

While I'm sure this is your wank video, it just doesn't happen that often. It's usually some nut chasing some kids out of the store for being too roudy.

I'm leaving the store with my groceries heading to my car. A woman starts screaming because a guy is trying to steal her purse and she's desperately fighting him to keep it. I pull out my gun and tell him if he wants to live, GTF out of here. Or perhaps he is robbing her with a knife. What choice does he have? He can continue fighting and perhaps get killed for twenty bucks and some credit cards, or he gets out of there as fast as he can because another customer may have already called the police and they're on their way.

Okay, Batman, how many times have you actually done that. I mean, you walk about with your gun, how many crimes have you actually broken up?

What. Wait. Zero? How could this be?

Oh please. Anybody can wear a face covering to not be indentified, especially today where half the people are still wearing masks in public. The only reason you are safe in your home is because any potential criminal knows there is a good chance you are armed. Therefore if he wants to rob your house, he's going to wait until you're not home. Robberies of occupied houses still happen, but as I already mentioned, the criminal has to be very picky to make sure the victim is too weak or helpless to use a firearm.

Again- Burglary, you might not even go to jail for tha.
Home invasion, you go to jail for 20 years even if no one gets hurt.

That's why you don't see crooks breaking into homes with people in them. Not because they are afraid of your Compensation.

 

[JoeB131]

What do you do about the survivalists who have a buried cache of firearms and ammo? I have been reading articles in gun magazines since the 1970s on how to create a cache using PVC pipe and Cosmolene or desiccants.

Those would probably be the easiest ones to find. The Gun nut would probably have his wank map somewhere in his house so he could find them again.

I would also remind you that confiscating guns in a country or state that is a gun sanctuary is not going to be simple as the locals will not cooperate with the Feds. If things get real dicey the Feds may find gun owners following them around making their life difficult.

Again, you trot in a few of the hard core nutters, the rest will fall into line.

The IRS doesn't have to audit that many people, but the few they do keeps everyone else filing their taxes and mostly being honest about it.

Same way with the ATF when we start cleaning up the gun nuts.

 

[JoeB131]

You lie....you are insane....

That's a good question. You see, Kellerman did this study where he found a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, and the response by the NRA was to demand that the CDC never do a gun study again.

Moron...actual researchers looked at his study and said it was wrong....

NOpe, never said anything of the sort. You can post all the NRA Spooge you want where you can claim his clarification was a retraction, but it was exactly that, a clarification.

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

Guy, we're not talking about "how many times a gun made you feel better about your tiny dick"

(OMG, OMG, OMG Joe told a dick joke. Let's all freak out!!!)

We are talking about how many people have died of guns.

We know there are 23,000 suicides a year.
We know that there are 15,000 homicides a year.

Of the homicides, what percentage are criminals committing a crime (Robbery, murder for hire, shooting a rival drug dealer) vs. how many are people shooting their family members or neighbors or coworkers in the heat of an argument.

Now, the way the gun nuts get around the fact that 83% of murder victims know their killers is that they say, "Well, he had a police record." 100 million Americans have police records, that's just not that big of a deal.

So let's say for the sake of argument that 60% of gun deaths are people in domestic arguments where a gun turned a bad situation tragic.

Here should be a clue. Most of the places I've worked in the last 20 years have been Gun-Free workplaces. management doesn't trust anyone to have a gun on their property. Most of them have backed that up with security doors, security checkpoints and other anti-gun countermeasures. Clearly they aren't worried about their employees being criminals, they are worried about them being a gun nut who is going to shoot the boss the day he gets fired.

 

[Batcat]

What do you do about the survivalists who have a buried cache of firearms and ammo? I have been reading articles in gun magazines since the 1970s on how to create a cache using PVC pipe and Cosmolene or desiccants.

Those would probably be the easiest ones to find. The Gun nut would probably have his wank map somewhere in his house so he could find them again.

I would also remind you that confiscating guns in a country or state that is a gun sanctuary is not going to be simple as the locals will not cooperate with the Feds. If things get real dicey the Feds may find gun owners following them around making their life difficult.

Again, you trot in a few of the hard core nutters, the rest will fall into line.

The IRS doesn't have to audit that many people, but the few they do keeps everyone else filing their taxes and mostly being honest about it.

Same way with the ATF when we start cleaning up the gun nuts.

You many try to clean up the “gun nuts” with the ATF but I suspect you will just start another revolution. Keep in mind gun control started the last one.

How the British Gun Control Program Precipitated the American Revolution - The Shooter's Log

A 2nd Amendment scholar asserts that what finally forced the colonials into a shooting war with the British Army in April 1775 were attempts by the British to disarm Americans. Click to see the facts.

blog.cheaperthandirt.com

 

[JoeB131]

You many try to clean up the “gun nuts” with the ATF but I suspect you will just start another revolution. Keep in mind gun control started the last one.

Actually, what started the last one was bunch of slave-raping assholes didn't want to pay their fair share in taxes.

The majority of us are sick and tired of being held hostage to the gun fetishists.

 

[Hollie]

You many try to clean up the “gun nuts” with the ATF but I suspect you will just start another revolution. Keep in mind gun control started the last one.

Actually, what started the last one was bunch of slave-raping assholes didn't want to pay their fair share in taxes.

The majority of us are sick and tired of being held hostage to the gun fetishists.

Gee, whiz. I hadn't realized you were the spokes-loon for ''most of us''. Have you read that in just the last year, there are more than 5 million new gun owners in the US. That spike in ownership is attributed to the leftist lowlife policies of defunding police, coddling criminals and the refusal of leftist DA's to prosecute crime.

Those new gun owners are sick and tired of being held hostage to leftist crime fetishists.

 

[2aguy]

You lie....you are insane....

That's a good question. You see, Kellerman did this study where he found a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, and the response by the NRA was to demand that the CDC never do a gun study again.

Moron...actual researchers looked at his study and said it was wrong....

NOpe, never said anything of the sort. You can post all the NRA Spooge you want where you can claim his clarification was a retraction, but it was exactly that, a clarification.

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

Guy, we're not talking about "how many times a gun made you feel better about your tiny dick"

(OMG, OMG, OMG Joe told a dick joke. Let's all freak out!!!)

We are talking about how many people have died of guns.

We know there are 23,000 suicides a year.
We know that there are 15,000 homicides a year.

Of the homicides, what percentage are criminals committing a crime (Robbery, murder for hire, shooting a rival drug dealer) vs. how many are people shooting their family members or neighbors or coworkers in the heat of an argument.

Now, the way the gun nuts get around the fact that 83% of murder victims know their killers is that they say, "Well, he had a police record." 100 million Americans have police records, that's just not that big of a deal.

So let's say for the sake of argument that 60% of gun deaths are people in domestic arguments where a gun turned a bad situation tragic.

Here should be a clue. Most of the places I've worked in the last 20 years have been Gun-Free workplaces. management doesn't trust anyone to have a gun on their property. Most of them have backed that up with security doors, security checkpoints and other anti-gun countermeasures. Clearly they aren't worried about their employees being criminals, they are worried about them being a gun nut who is going to shoot the boss the day he gets fired.

His first study.....he comes up with 43 times...

He gets called out, does it over, comes up with 2.7 times..

That isn't a clarification, you moron.......

The majority of the shootings in this country are criminals shooting other criminals you idiot...you can lie all you want and claim that all shootings are men shooting wives but the truth, facts and reality show you are an idiot and a liar........

Knowing the victim...you idiot....is gang member from gang A, shoots at gang member from gang B because they know each other as rival gang members......

Knowing the victim.....drug addict shoots drug dealer because he wants the drug dealers stash and money......

You moron.

 

[2aguy]

You lie....you are insane....

That's a good question. You see, Kellerman did this study where he found a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, and the response by the NRA was to demand that the CDC never do a gun study again.

Moron...actual researchers looked at his study and said it was wrong....

NOpe, never said anything of the sort. You can post all the NRA Spooge you want where you can claim his clarification was a retraction, but it was exactly that, a clarification.

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

Guy, we're not talking about "how many times a gun made you feel better about your tiny dick"

(OMG, OMG, OMG Joe told a dick joke. Let's all freak out!!!)

We are talking about how many people have died of guns.

We know there are 23,000 suicides a year.
We know that there are 15,000 homicides a year.

Of the homicides, what percentage are criminals committing a crime (Robbery, murder for hire, shooting a rival drug dealer) vs. how many are people shooting their family members or neighbors or coworkers in the heat of an argument.

Now, the way the gun nuts get around the fact that 83% of murder victims know their killers is that they say, "Well, he had a police record." 100 million Americans have police records, that's just not that big of a deal.

So let's say for the sake of argument that 60% of gun deaths are people in domestic arguments where a gun turned a bad situation tragic.

Here should be a clue. Most of the places I've worked in the last 20 years have been Gun-Free workplaces. management doesn't trust anyone to have a gun on their property. Most of them have backed that up with security doors, security checkpoints and other anti-gun countermeasures. Clearly they aren't worried about their employees being criminals, they are worried about them being a gun nut who is going to shoot the boss the day he gets fired.

So let's say for the sake of argument that 60% of gun deaths are people in domestic arguments where a gun turned a bad situation tragic.


Let's not say 60% because that is bullshit.......

The Criminology of Firearms
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies.

Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
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The Institute's resulting report observed: "It is commonly hypothesized that much criminal violence, especially homicide, occurs simply because the means of lethal violence (firearms) are readily at hand, and, thus, that much homicide would not occur were firearms generally less available. There is no persuasive evidence that supports this view." (emphasis added)

http://www.haciendapublishing.com/m...art-ii-gun-violence-and-constitutional-issues


Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.
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(17) The FBI statistics reveal that 75 percent of all violent crimes for any locality are committed by six percent of hardened criminals and repeat offenders.(18)

 

[JoeB131]

Gee, whiz. I hadn't realized you were the spokes-loon for ''most of us''. Have you read that in just the last year, there are more than 5 million new gun owners in the US. That spike in ownership is attributed to the leftist lowlife policies of defunding police, coddling criminals and the refusal of leftist DA's to prosecute crime.

Those new gun owners are sick and tired of being held hostage to leftist crime fetishists.

Uh, yeah, every time there is an election, the gun industry screams "XXXX is going to take your guns" and all the fetishists stock up on more guns.

Despite mass shootings, number of households owning guns is on the decline

Half of all guns are concentrated among 3 percent of Americans

www.cbsnews.com

The number of American households with guns has dropped 19 percentage points from 50 percent in 1977 to 31 percent in 2014 according to the General Social Survey of the National Opinion Research Center, which has surveyed about 2,000 Americans on the same set of questions since the early 1970's.

Survey results also show that hunting as a sport has declined since 1977, when 31 percent of Americans said they or their spouse hunted. More recently, in 2014, just 15 percent said they hunted.

So bottom line. The gun industry has a problem. Less and less Americans actually think murdering animals is fun anymore.

What to do?

I know. Let's find the craziest people in the country, and convince them that they need enough guns to fight off the Zombie Apocalypse

They found that those who own guns own an average of 4.8 firearms. But they also found that half of all guns — 130 million guns — are owned by 14 percent of gun owners or 7.6 million people. That's 3 percent of the U.S. population.

I'm willing to guess that all our resident gun fetishists own more than one gun.

 

[JoeB131]

His first study.....he comes up with 43 times...

He gets called out, does it over, comes up with 2.7 times..

Except he didn't do it over.

He very clearly stated that out of that 43 times, 39 of those were suicides, 2.7 were homicides and the remaining fraction were accidents.

Now, we KNOW you gun fetishists like to pretend suicide isn't really part of our gun violence problem in this country. but it really is.

 

[JoeB131]

Knowing the victim...you idiot....is gang member from gang A, shoots at gang member from gang B because they know each other as rival gang members......

Knowing the victim.....drug addict shoots drug dealer because he wants the drug dealers stash and money......

Okay, so let's do a study to define that. How many were domestic murders and how many were murders in furtherance of criminal acts.

On, no, wait, the NRA banned studies like that. They were bad for business.

 

[Batcat]

You many try to clean up the “gun nuts” with the ATF but I suspect you will just start another revolution. Keep in mind gun control started the last one.

Actually, what started the last one was bunch of slave-raping assholes didn't want to pay their fair share in taxes.

The majority of us are sick and tired of being held hostage to the gun fetishists.

Actually slavery was legal in the British Empire during the American revolution. Therefore plantation owners in the South would not have feared the loss of their slaves if the British won the war.

Taxes definitely played a role. The colonists were not fond of “taxation without representation.” There however were many other reasons for the revolution.

As I pointed out before, the attempt by the British to impose gun control started the fighting.

Slavery Abolition Act 1833 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What Caused the American Revolution? - History of Massachusetts Blog

Trying to pinpoint the main causes of the American Revolution is difficult at best because there were many contributing factors and even historians can't agree on what they were. Author and Harvard professor, Bernard Bailyn argues in his book, The Idealogical Origins of the American Revolution...

historyofmassachusetts.org

Gun Control And The American Revolution

David Kopel of davekopel.org wrote an article detailing and comparing modern gun control with revolutionary era gun control

www.gunsandtactics.com

 

[Batcat]

You many try to clean up the “gun nuts” with the ATF but I suspect you will just start another revolution. Keep in mind gun control started the last one.

Actually, what started the last one was bunch of slave-raping assholes didn't want to pay their fair share in taxes.

The majority of us are sick and tired of being held hostage to the gun fetishists.

Gee, whiz. I hadn't realized you were the spokes-loon for ''most of us''. Have you read that in just the last year, there are more than 5 million new gun owners in the US. That spike in ownership is attributed to the leftist lowlife policies of defunding police, coddling criminals and the refusal of leftist DA's to prosecute crime.

Those new gun owners are sick and tired of being held hostage to leftist crime fetishists.

Plus many of these first time gun owners are democrats.

First-Time Gun Buyers Grow to Nearly 5 Million in 2020

NSSF updated retail survey-based estimates and concluded that nearly 5 million Americans purchased a firearm for the very first time in 2020.

www.nssf.org

NSSF surveys revealed that 58 percent of firearm purchases were among African American men and women, the largest increase of any demographic group. Women comprised 40 percent of first-time gun purchasers. Retailers noted that they are seeing a 95 percent increase in firearm sales and a 139 percent increase in ammunition sales over the same period in 2019.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

he majority of us are sick and tired of being held hostage to the gun fetishists.

You don't speak for any majority of us.

Gun sales are up because a much larger part of the population that you represent is fed up with violent, destructive subhuman criminal filth such as yourself, and with the police being prevented from doing their job of protecting us from your kind.