Matthew 24 34

[TNHarley]

I love the fact the TN reads the Bible even if he’s motivated to do so by his hatred of religion.

I dont hate religion.
For instance, I find hinduism and buddhism appealing.

Oh, so you just hate Christianity. My bad.

As usual, you are wrong.
I dont hate christianity. I just dont believe in the abrahamic religions.

I’m sure you actually believe that, TN. I don’t.

I believe that. If it was false, you would be all over it.

 

[ding]

I love the fact the TN reads the Bible even if he’s motivated to do so by his hatred of religion.

I dont hate religion.
For instance, I find hinduism and buddhism appealing.

Oh, so you just hate Christianity. My bad.

As usual, you are wrong.
I dont hate christianity. I just dont believe in the abrahamic religions.

I’m sure you actually believe that, TN. I don’t.

I believe that. If it was false, you would be all over it.

No. I wouldn’t. I don’t care enough. Your beliefs don’t affect me one way or another.

You can’t say the same.

 

[TNHarley]

I dont hate religion.
For instance, I find hinduism and buddhism appealing.

Oh, so you just hate Christianity. My bad.

As usual, you are wrong.
I dont hate christianity. I just dont believe in the abrahamic religions.

I’m sure you actually believe that, TN. I don’t.

I believe that. If it was false, you would be all over it.

No. I wouldn’t. I don’t care enough. Your beliefs don’t affect me one way or another.

You can’t say the same.

Yet here you are.
Too bad your god doesnt teach self awareness, moron.

 

[ding]

Oh, so you just hate Christianity. My bad.

As usual, you are wrong.
I dont hate christianity. I just dont believe in the abrahamic religions.

I’m sure you actually believe that, TN. I don’t.

I believe that. If it was false, you would be all over it.

No. I wouldn’t. I don’t care enough. Your beliefs don’t affect me one way or another.

You can’t say the same.

Yet here you are.
Too bad your god doesnt teach self awareness, moron.

Yes, here I am correcting you.

I am absolutely aware of that.

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

 

[Taz]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?

Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

But whatever the reason, you can be certain that a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason.

 

[Indeependent]

TN keeps forgetting that the Jewish prophecy of the Messiah hasn’t been fulfilled yet because that won’t happen until the end of days.

No shit sherlock
It didnt happen and jesus is dead

Not according to the Christian faith, he’s not. He suffered death, descended into hell and defeated death.

We celebrate this every year. Maybe you have heard about it.

Jesus is dead. My ancestors killed him.

NOW you’re a Jew!
Yeshua’s legacy contributed greatly to mankind...right along with Mohammed.

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

 

[Taz]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?

Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

But whatever the reason, you can be certain that a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason.

"So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?" So god lives vicariously through us?

"Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions. " So you're guessing. Got it.

"a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason" Total speculation, and zero proof.

 

[Taz]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

You're the one who claims that an invisible being wants us to be self-aware. Which is laughable.

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

You're the one who claims that an invisible being wants us to be self-aware. Which is laughable.

Why is it laughable?

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?

Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

But whatever the reason, you can be certain that a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason.

"So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?" So god lives vicariously through us?

"Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions. " So you're guessing. Got it.

"a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason" Total speculation, and zero proof.

Not really. We live in a logical universe where every cause has an effect.

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

 

[Taz]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

You're the one who claims that an invisible being wants us to be self-aware. Which is laughable.

Why is it laughable?

That the story of Adam and Eve would be about being self-aware, that's funny.

 

[Taz]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?

Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

But whatever the reason, you can be certain that a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason.

"So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?" So god lives vicariously through us?

"Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions. " So you're guessing. Got it.

"a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason" Total speculation, and zero proof.

Not really. We live in a logical universe where every cause has an effect.

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

What's logical about deformed and retarded babies that live in constant pain?

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

You're the one who claims that an invisible being wants us to be self-aware. Which is laughable.

Why is it laughable?

That the story of Adam and Eve would be about being self-aware, that's funny.

You would only see that.

 

[ding]

On the subject of self awareness being taught be God....

It is at the heart of our problems and it was absolutely taught and recorded by ancient man in the account of Genesis.

Man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept he rationalizes he didn’t violate it.

When Adam and Eve heard God coming, they hid. That’s ancient man’s way of saying in an allegorical fashion that man knows right from wrong.

When God asked Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam said the woman you made for me gave it to me. When God asked Eve if she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she said the serpent deceived me. Both responses show a lack of self awareness. Both responses show they lacked accountability. Both responses showed that they blamed someone else for their errors.

So, TN, our God does teach us to be self aware. It’s just that you didn’t understand the lesson being taught in Genesis.

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?

Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

But whatever the reason, you can be certain that a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason.

"So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?" So god lives vicariously through us?

"Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions. " So you're guessing. Got it.

"a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason" Total speculation, and zero proof.

Not really. We live in a logical universe where every cause has an effect.

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

What's logical about deformed and retarded babies that live in constant pain?

That they are a byproduct of existence and diversity.

 

[Taz]

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

You're the one who claims that an invisible being wants us to be self-aware. Which is laughable.

Why is it laughable?

That the story of Adam and Eve would be about being self-aware, that's funny.

You would only see that.

That's totally a lame reason for that story.

 

[Taz]

If god wanted us to be self-aware, why didn't he just make us that way? So the whole story of the Garden of Eden is simply a story to make us self-aware? Wow, you must have a sore back from moving the goalposts so far away.

So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?

Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

But whatever the reason, you can be certain that a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason.

"So that he could experience the full spectrum of the material world?" So god lives vicariously through us?

"Or maybe because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions. " So you're guessing. Got it.

"a mind without a body capable of creating existence has a good reason" Total speculation, and zero proof.

Not really. We live in a logical universe where every cause has an effect.

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

What's logical about deformed and retarded babies that live in constant pain?

That they are a byproduct of existence and diversity.

Not logical to have that. Only to you, not to the rest of us.

 

[ding]

To make us self aware or to make us aware of our deficiencies? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

But why do you keep attributing ancient man’s understanding to God?

You're the one who claims that an invisible being wants us to be self-aware. Which is laughable.

Why is it laughable?

That the story of Adam and Eve would be about being self-aware, that's funny.

You would only see that.

That's totally a lame reason for that story.

It’s a little more than that.

It was passed down for thousands of years orally from generation to generation. There’s nothing comparable in the history of mankind.