McDonalds cashier requirements

[thereisnospoon]

How in the hell can anyone prove in a court of law that an applicant was excluded due to a prior criminal conviction?
In any event, such a blanket regulation would be impossible.
Many occupations require the handling of money, handling of sensitive financial information or other sensitive material. Also, law enforcement requires a clean criminal history.

It's simple. Since all employers are honest and forthright, they will immediately confess to their nefarious conduct, hire the man with full back pay and have a full-page apology printed in the local newspaper.

JOKING !!!!

If the proposed legislation is adopted, I assume job applications will allow the applicant to explain his criminal convictions in detail. If he is denied employment, he may file a complaint alleging he was not hired solely because of his criminal conviction. He must first establish a prima facie case by proving that he was qualified for the job, his conviction was not related to the job requirements and someone less qualified but without a criminal conviction was hired instead. The burden then shifts to the employer to prove the man was not hired for other non-discriminatory reasons. That's the way things normally go in discrimination cases and I can't think of any other way it could possibly work in this instance.

What is interesting is that if improper consideration of criminal records constitutes a valid discrimination claim, the race and gender of the plaintiff/complainant is immaterial and the race and gender of the 'comparisons employees' (lesser qualified applicants who were hired over the complainant) is also immaterial. Thus a Black male who had a criminal conviction could prevail by proving that another Black male - but one without a criminal conviction - was hired over him.

Of course, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier and I cannot predict what final form the proposed legislation will take, assuming that it passes.

If the legislation does pass, I will be looking forward to the debate regarding which types of criminal convictions can lawfully be used by employers to bar applicants from certain positions. Clearly (as you have observed), if someone was convicted of embezzling, it would by prudent and proper for a bank to refuse to hire him as a teller, but not every case is going to be so readily apparent. From a legal perspective, all this could get very interesting. It could turn into a lawyers' paradise.

And some people wonder why more and more employers are trying to automate their businesses.

That is humor. I recognize that.
Look, on perfect world your astute analysis would be spot on.
We don't live in such a world.
We both know with every anti discrimination law, every racial or demographic set aside and every gender based regulations, what has happened is the rule of paw has been flipped on its head.
In these cases, all that is required is the charge that something is amiss. That someone was wronged. The burden of proof invariably falls on the accused to prove he DID NOT do something wrong.
That is the main reason why these anti discrimination laws are despised by business and adored by plaintiff's attorneys.

 

[rdean]

If you are so stupid that you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds, then you deserve what you get. What a ridiculous article. Only gives right wingers another reason to say, "School is for snobs and we don't need it so let's don't fund it".

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are 3.7 million jobs unfilled because of a lack of, get this, "education".

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you are so stupid that you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds, then you deserve what you get. What a ridiculous article. Only gives right wingers another reason to say, "School is for snobs and we don't need it so let's don't fund it".

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are 3.7 million jobs unfilled because of a lack of, get this, "education".

Did you just admit that having a college degrees is not an indication of intelligence?

 

[rdean]

If you are so stupid that you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds, then you deserve what you get. What a ridiculous article. Only gives right wingers another reason to say, "School is for snobs and we don't need it so let's don't fund it".

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are 3.7 million jobs unfilled because of a lack of, get this, "education".

Did you just admit that having a college degrees is not an indication of intelligence?

Well yea. Look at all the Bible Study degrees you can get from those ignorant right wing colleges and universities. What does that leave them prepared for?

 

[JoeB131]

If you are so stupid that you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds, then you deserve what you get. What a ridiculous article. Only gives right wingers another reason to say, "School is for snobs and we don't need it so let's don't fund it".

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are 3.7 million jobs unfilled because of a lack of, get this, "education".

That's kind of dishonest, though. The big corporations claim they can't find "qualified" candidates so they can get permission to bring in a foreign national with the "skills". (Usually, the top skills is they hold his work visa and he'll go back to his shithole of a country if he doesn't work hard.)

 

[newpolitics]

Bachelors degree and 2 years of experience.

Want to tell me again how wonderful the economy is?

McDonald's cashier job requires bachelor's degree | Video Library | Detroit Free Press

Don't be mad because you can't get the job. There is something out there for everyone.

 

[rdean]

If you are so stupid that you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds, then you deserve what you get. What a ridiculous article. Only gives right wingers another reason to say, "School is for snobs and we don't need it so let's don't fund it".

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are 3.7 million jobs unfilled because of a lack of, get this, "education".

That's kind of dishonest, though. The big corporations claim they can't find "qualified" candidates so they can get permission to bring in a foreign national with the "skills". (Usually, the top skills is they hold his work visa and he'll go back to his shithole of a country if he doesn't work hard.)

I don't believe Americans are too stupid to learn. Remember, on his website Mitt Romney talked about "fewer teachers" and bringing immigrants here who already had degrees and helping them out. While I have no problem bringing the educated here, I also believe people here can be educated. Except those who say education is a liberal plot or is for snobs. Those people are morons. They can't be educated.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Based on some of the comments I have read, I had to add the following:

I am more than a little surprised that some of you fine folks have never heard of the "Disparate Impact" rule established by law. Some of you criticized me without checking the facts out for yourself, insisting I provide a link. I didn't think it was necessary because I assumed (erroneously) that everyone know about this basic legislation. Plus, I knew the information was readily available on the Internet. In fact, anyone who took just a minute or two to Google “disparate impact and college degrees” would discover there are over 250,000 links to explore (if you Google “disparate impact without the 'college degree' qualifier, you will find over 4,200,000 links). However, some of you are unwilling to do your own research, so I reluctantly give you a few links. Here is a general description of the law which has been in effect for decades – that's right, decades (at least 40 years according to my fading memory):

EEOC issues Opinion Letter on Disparate Impact of Education (College Degree) Requirements

Here is an advisory opinion from the legal counsel for the EEOC concerning whether requiring a master’s degree, without the possibility of substituting experience or other education, would violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (The letter was written in 2009). This should give you some insight as to what employers must consider when establishing criteria for hiring and promotion:

EEO Information and resources for HR Professionals and Students

It is undeniable that no employer in this country is completely free to select whatever criteria he/she deems desirable for hiring and promoting employees without fear of possible unfavorable consequences if such requirement adversely impact minority candidates. Period. Disparate Impact is the law of the land and employers can be, and in fact have been sued, because their requirements had a disproportionately adverse effect on minorities. I am not saying the law makes sense, and in fact I am opposed to such laws. However, neither my opinion nor yours will change the law.

Some of you may be inclined to call me racist because I am against Affirmative Action. Don't bother. Racism is not defined by which government programs one is for or against. Racism is defined as an opinion that one race is inferior to another and I harbor no such thoughts and never have. Personally, I think such laws are racist by definition because they presuppose that minorities cannot compete with Whites without some type of help. I think that minorities can make it on their own, as many indeed have.

What is frightening is that so many posters on this forum didn't know anything about Disparate Impact laws, and this is very old and oft' cited legislation which affects every business and a hell of a lot of employees. What is even more frightening is that these posters were willing to criticize and even ridicule my post without bothering to take a mere minute or two to check the facts.

To all my critics: You were wrong, dead wrong. You apparently think the law is always fair and always makes complete sense. I know better. What I found funny is that a few of you took more time to criticize my post than it would have taken to Google the matter and find out the truth for yourself. At any rate, I did my best to inform you, and the rest is up to you.

Disparate Impact: It's real no matter how much you don't want it to be. Accept it, learn to live with it, and most important … get off my ass. I'm too old and tired for this shit.

On any number of levels one of the finest posts in my time here.

Big idea/ primary takeaway for those crippled by a post-1980 public education before being stampeded into one of the major corporate owned political parties:

Facts are facts.
Personal fantasies and emotions don't change the facts.​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you are so stupid that you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds, then you deserve what you get. What a ridiculous article. Only gives right wingers another reason to say, "School is for snobs and we don't need it so let's don't fund it".

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are 3.7 million jobs unfilled because of a lack of, get this, "education".

Did you just admit that having a college degrees is not an indication of intelligence?

Well yea. Look at all the Bible Study degrees you can get from those ignorant right wing colleges and universities. What does that leave them prepared for?

You said liberal arts, not religious studies. Those used to be an indication of a lot of different things, one of which was a well rounded education grounded firmly in science and mathematics. Now they are the biggest joke on the planet, all because idiots, like you, got the idea that education is an end instead of a process.

 

[rdean]

Did you just admit that having a college degrees is not an indication of intelligence?

Well yea. Look at all the Bible Study degrees you can get from those ignorant right wing colleges and universities. What does that leave them prepared for?

You said liberal arts, not religious studies. Those used to be an indication of a lot of different things, one of which was a well rounded education grounded firmly in science and mathematics. Now they are the biggest joke on the planet, all because idiots, like you, got the idea that education is an end instead of a process.

liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds

Why are you such a shithead? Seriously. You know you take things out of context. I said:

liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds

Get it asswipe? I qualified that. You really are a snot. Really. And clearly, what would you know about "education". If you did, you could debate instead of falling back on what fucking conservatives always do. Pick a few words out of context. Like "you didn't build that" or some shit. You guys are all the same.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well yea. Look at all the Bible Study degrees you can get from those ignorant right wing colleges and universities. What does that leave them prepared for?

You said liberal arts, not religious studies. Those used to be an indication of a lot of different things, one of which was a well rounded education grounded firmly in science and mathematics. Now they are the biggest joke on the planet, all because idiots, like you, got the idea that education is an end instead of a process.

liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds

Why are you such a shithead? Seriously. You know you take things out of context. I said:

liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds

Get it asswipe? I qualified that. You really are a snot. Really. And clearly, what would you know about "education". If you did, you could debate instead of falling back on what fucking conservatives always do. Pick a few words out of context. Like "you didn't build that" or some shit. You guys are all the same.

"my comments were taken out of context"....The latest excuse used by libs when they fuck up..

 

[Saigon]

I don't believe Americans are too stupid to learn. Remember, on his website Mitt Romney talked about "fewer teachers" and bringing immigrants here who already had degrees and helping them out. While I have no problem bringing the educated here, I also believe people here can be educated. Except those who say education is a liberal plot or is for snobs. Those people are morons. They can't be educated.

Americans are definitely smart enough, but at the moment I do think the US education system is falling behind in some areas.

While those lucky enough to attend MIT, Harvard or Yale probably receive the best education available anywhere on the planet, it seems to me that colleges set the bar very low for graduation. A US college degree is so far below a European Bachelor's degree now that it is useless at an international level. What that means is that US employers are hiring people who, on average, are less educated than those workers hired by the companies they compete against worldwide.

Every day on this board we see people who claim to be college graduates, but can scarecely read or write, think Hitler was a Marxist and that Al Gore invented climate change. That basic level of education needs to be raised.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't believe Americans are too stupid to learn. Remember, on his website Mitt Romney talked about "fewer teachers" and bringing immigrants here who already had degrees and helping them out. While I have no problem bringing the educated here, I also believe people here can be educated. Except those who say education is a liberal plot or is for snobs. Those people are morons. They can't be educated.

Americans are definitely smart enough, but at the moment I do think the US education system is falling behind in some areas.

While those lucky enough to attend MIT, Harvard or Yale probably receive the best education available anywhere on the planet, it seems to me that colleges set the bar very low for graduation. A US college degree is so far below a European Bachelor's degree now that it is useless at an international level. What that means is that US employers are hiring people who, on average, are less educated than those workers hired by the companies they compete against worldwide. Every day on this board we see people who claim to be college graduates, but can scarecely read or write, think Hitler was a Marxist and that Al Gore invented climate change. That basic level of education needs to be raised.

Where do you get this information? Do you have any facts to support your assertion? For the past 10 years, I've been working internationally, for non-American concerns, working and living in foreign countries, including four years in Europe. My co-workers are from around the world, including from the United States. As well, I have met countless Americans working for non-American employers around the world. There is no evidence from my experience that people educated in American schools are considered inferior in any way to those educated in Europe. My personal experience in working closely with Europeans (not only in Europe but in other countries as well) is that their education is, essentially, no different than my own and that Americans succeed as well at all levels in my field as do Europeans. I have not worked for an American owned concern for 10 years.

I agree that a lot of posters on this message board exhibit poor thinking skills, poor use of language, an inadequate grasp of history, and a limited knowledge base. However, they do not represent American college and university graduates in general. I've been on other forums whose members, primarily American, do not exhibit, on average, that level of ignorance and weak development of the mind. You should go on a British based forum sometime and see how well educated the average Brit appears to be. Oh, and btw, I have a liberal arts degree: I have not found it to be useless, quite the contrary.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well yea. Look at all the Bible Study degrees you can get from those ignorant right wing colleges and universities. What does that leave them prepared for?

You said liberal arts, not religious studies. Those used to be an indication of a lot of different things, one of which was a well rounded education grounded firmly in science and mathematics. Now they are the biggest joke on the planet, all because idiots, like you, got the idea that education is an end instead of a process.

liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds

Why are you such a shithead? Seriously. You know you take things out of context. I said:

liberal arts degree that only leaves you qualified to work at McDonalds

Get it asswipe? I qualified that. You really are a snot. Really. And clearly, what would you know about "education". If you did, you could debate instead of falling back on what fucking conservatives always do. Pick a few words out of context. Like "you didn't build that" or some shit. You guys are all the same.

Like a PhD in Women's Studies?

 

[Saigon]

Where do you get this information? Do you have any facts to support your assertion? For the past 10 years, I've been working internationally, for non-American concerns, working and living in foreign countries, including four years in Europe. My co-workers are from around the world, including from the United States. As well, I have met countless Americans working for non-American employers around the world. There is no evidence from my experience that people educated in American schools are considered inferior in any way to those educated in Europe. My personal experience in working closely with Europeans (not only in Europe but in other countries as well) is that their education is, essentially, no different than my own and that Americans succeed as well at all levels in my field as do Europeans. I have not worked for an American owned concern for 10 years.
.

It wasn'y my intention to denigrate American workers or even their education per se - but I think there is a huge gulf between Americans who have completed a (further) university degree and those who have only graduated from college after 4 years. I accept that this varies massively from school to school.

While it is positive that so many American attend college, it seems to me that the bar is often set too low, and that the economic ability to pay for education is often a more critical factor in being able to attend than intelligence is.

Finnish universities are free, but entrance exams rigid in the extreme. I do think this ultimately makes for a better filtering system than fees do.

 

[Esmeralda]

Where do you get this information? Do you have any facts to support your assertion? For the past 10 years, I've been working internationally, for non-American concerns, working and living in foreign countries, including four years in Europe. My co-workers are from around the world, including from the United States. As well, I have met countless Americans working for non-American employers around the world. There is no evidence from my experience that people educated in American schools are considered inferior in any way to those educated in Europe. My personal experience in working closely with Europeans (not only in Europe but in other countries as well) is that their education is, essentially, no different than my own and that Americans succeed as well at all levels in my field as do Europeans. I have not worked for an American owned concern for 10 years.
.

It wasn'y my intention to denigrate American workers or even their education per se - but I think there is a huge gulf between Americans who have completed a (further) university degree and those who have only graduated from college after 4 years. I accept that this varies massively from school to school.

While it is positive that so many American attend college, it seems to me that the bar is often set too low, and that the economic ability to pay for education is often a more critical factor in being able to attend than intelligence is.

Finnish universities are free, but entrance exams rigid in the extreme. I do think this ultimately makes for a better filtering system than fees do.

Please, spend some time on a British based forum. You will find just as many nimnos there as here.

I think you are making a broad, sweeping generalization about American universities and colleges based on limited experience and information. Doing, in fact, just the opposite of one who has earned, as you claim, a better education in Finland should be doing. Contradicting your own premise, essentially, by your own behavior. I like you and think you are an intelligent poster. So this is not personal or an indictment of you. But I believe you are not using effective reasoning.

Many Americans who work overseas and for overseas companies do not have advanced degrees. Not all Americans with whom I have worked outside the US have advanced degrees. Not all I have met who work outside the US have advanced degrees. I think basing your conclusion about American education on the majority of posters on this board is a mistake.

I don't know anything about the Finnish education system. Do the 'rigid' university entrance exams include a broad based knowledge or are they based in math, science, and language? Entrance to American schools is based on SAT scores, which are based on language and math. I suppose they assume that if a person has a good grasp of those two subjects, he/she will be able to develop intellectually in any area. Entrance to American schools is also based on GPA and other criteria, depending on the school. Certainly, there is a wide spectrum of quality among American schools. There is also a wide diversity of individual students, with a wide diversity of cultural and social backgrounds: something I imagine is not the case in Finland. It is much easier to educate a small, pretty much homogeneous population to a similar high standard than it is to do so with the vast and diverse population of the US.

"I do think this ultimately makes for a better filtering system than fees do." This point also is very important. The very strong democratic view that virtually everyone is entitled to an education influences who is allowed to attend American colleges and universities. This has an impact on outcomes. We also don't know if those who claim to have a degree earned it with high scores or just attained the minimum level of achievement.

 

[Saigon]

Esmerelda -

I think you are making a broad, sweeping generalization about American universities and colleges based on limited experience and information.

Yes, absolutely!!

I'm not attempting to present a scientific case here, and I haven't seen any research on this - although I would love to. I am just going with my own experience, which is fairly broad in that I work with journalists and professionals from all over the world. I'm not basing my opinions on this board.

 

[Esmeralda]

Esmerelda -

I think you are making a broad, sweeping generalization about American universities and colleges based on limited experience and information.

Yes, absolutely!!

I'm not attempting to present a scientific case here, and I haven't seen any research on this - although I would love to. I am just going with my own experience, which is fairly broad in that I work with journalists and professionals from all over the world. I'm not basing my opinions on this board.

And you find the American journalists and professionals you encounter around the world to be poorly educated?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Esmerelda -

I think you are making a broad, sweeping generalization about American universities and colleges based on limited experience and information.

Yes, absolutely!!

I'm not attempting to present a scientific case here, and I haven't seen any research on this - although I would love to. I am just going with my own experience, which is fairly broad in that I work with journalists and professionals from all over the world. I'm not basing my opinions on this board.

And you find the American journalists and professionals you encounter around the world to be poorly educated?

He is poorly educated himself, what do you expect?

 

[Esmeralda]

Esmerelda -

Yes, absolutely!!

I'm not attempting to present a scientific case here, and I haven't seen any research on this - although I would love to. I am just going with my own experience, which is fairly broad in that I work with journalists and professionals from all over the world. I'm not basing my opinions on this board.

And you find the American journalists and professionals you encounter around the world to be poorly educated?

He is poorly educated himself, what do you expect?

What causes you to make such a claim? He doesn't seem poorly educated to me. Is it because he has a different perspective than you? Do you not realize that labeling someone as poorly educated simply because they have a different take on things is an indication of your own limitations?