McDonalds Introduces Self Serving Kiosks in Response to Min Wage Increase

[Muhammed]

Thanks to the left, now even high school kids can't get jobs.

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide

If this happens, McDonald's reveals what's truly important to them. Either they're going to create jobs for humans, or jobs for machines. Either way, we'll see their true colors soon enough, and respond accordingly by refusing to eat there if they value profit dollars over jobs.

Businesses do not open up to provide jobs. Businesses do not open up to provide living wages. Businesses do not open up for a social obligation. Businesses open up to provide products or services for a profit. That's it.

I don't live in Texas.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thanks to the left, now even high school kids can't get jobs.

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide

If this happens, McDonald's reveals what's truly important to them. Either they're going to create jobs for humans, or jobs for machines. Either way, we'll see their true colors soon enough, and respond accordingly by refusing to eat there if they value profit dollars over jobs.

Businesses do not open up to provide jobs. Businesses do not open up to provide living wages. Businesses do not open up for a social obligation. Businesses open up to provide products or services for a profit. That's it.

I don't live in Texas.

What does living in Texas have to do with it?

 

[Muhammed]

No automated kiosk will ever be able to make a better burger than me.

If that's what you believe, you should open up your own burger place. If that goes great, sell franchises like McDonald's.

Why?

 

[Muhammed]

Thanks to the left, now even high school kids can't get jobs.

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide

If this happens, McDonald's reveals what's truly important to them. Either they're going to create jobs for humans, or jobs for machines. Either way, we'll see their true colors soon enough, and respond accordingly by refusing to eat there if they value profit dollars over jobs.

Businesses do not open up to provide jobs. Businesses do not open up to provide living wages. Businesses do not open up for a social obligation. Businesses open up to provide products or services for a profit. That's it.

I don't live in Texas.

What does living in Texas have to do with it?

$

 

[EverCurious]

Look, I don't care what anyone else's opinion is on McDonald's food, but stay the fuck off my Sausage McMuffin's!!! I love those things, my husband brings them home for me occasionally as a surprise and I get all wiggly over it. I had boycotted my local McDonald's and forced my husband to drive 15 miles into the big city to get them for me for ten years lol

Agree. If you really want to try something good for breakfast, try their Big Breakfast with Hotcakes. If you're not completely full after that, something is terribly wrong with you.

No wayz, my husband makes the absolute best pancakes ever so I'd never defile my taste buds with Hotcakes

That said, I can't even eat a whole big breakfast. I eat two sausage McMuffin's and I'm good for the week heh

 

[usmbguest5318]

Introduction:
Science fiction deals with improbable possibilities, fantasy with plausible impossibilities. Automation of rote tasks like order taking should shock no one. Star Trek: The Next Generation (TNG) showed us food replicators. Even though automatically and instantly synthesizing food itself was far off, it was clear even in 1987 that it was just a matter of time before the order-taking aspect of what the food synthesizer did would become automated.

​

In other words, when watching shows like TNG, viewers are called to notice the foretelling not of the "automobile," but of the "traffic jam." Sci-fi gives us a glimpse at future processes every bit as much as future products. Focus on the latter and ignore the former at your peril.

Reading the Writing on the Wall
Just what the hell were people thinking when they watched TNG? Did they not see what I and, apparently, what the makers of McDonald's cashier kiosks saw?

1. The machine takes an order.
2. The (seemingly same - I don't know, but it doesn't matter) machine produces the items ordered.
3. The machine delivers the ordered items to the customer.

In the late 1980s and 1990s, even today, any observer will know that we are nowhere near having machines generate out of "ether" a steak, glasses, a bun and wine. On the other hand, even then, the order taking aspect was just a matter of time. And when should one have realized the time was nigh? The moment one saw pressure activated touch screens [1], or if not then certainly by the time we saw hepatic touchscreen registers.

Just what is the kiosk below other than a prettier and far version of the registers above? Let's be real. When you order at a McDonald's having registers like those above, you don't hear the cashier hollering order to a line cook as might have happened in a short order diner.

​

And the ordering kiosks need not even be that large...there're reasons why they are, and if someone wants to know what they are, ask.

​

Think! Think! Just how different is the self service kiosk from a typical McDonald's cash register? Just how different is the process McDonald's is implementing from that at your local grocery store, Home Depot or Walmart?

​

It's not different at all. The customer selects what she wants to buy, informs the seller of what she demands and pays for it. The only difference is that at goods stores, the customer also obtains the item(s) she wants, whereas at a restaurant, the seller delivers the food to the customer.

Aside from having user prompts, the self-service kiosks do not materially differ from the one's McDonald's employees have long used. Just how hard do you think it is to take existing cash register code and insert some prompts so that customers can place their own food order? It's literally child's play so long as one is well organized and logical in one's thinking.


The economic and social realities:
People need not like the economic realities, but disliking them and complaining about them doesn't alter them. The principles of economic theory are not opinions.

The matter of wages is never really about how much people on average earn, but rather whether their earning keep pace with the rise in goods and service prices. It's about what goods and services people can afford, not the absolute sum being paid/earned.

​

America as a whole is an outlier among advanced economies. Given the pattern across the rest of the OECD, a group of mostly rich countries, one would expect America, where GDP per person is $53,000, to pay a minimum wage around $12 an hour. That would mean a raise of about 65% for Americans earning the minimum pay rate. Be that as it may, the question is not whether $15 or $12 per hour is on par with other OECD nations, but rather whether $7.25, $12, or $15 is enough for a person to live as should a low wage earning, frugal, independent adult having no job alternative (at that moment) would in the U.S.

In the Roaring '20s, prices increased after the war, and wages kept pace with them. Life was, leaving social and socioeconomic issues out of it, good, hence the name for the era. The war "over there" left Europe and the Middle East in need of rebuilding and the U.S. was primed and ready to produce everything the rest of the world needed. And that is exactly what the U.S. did, thus the "roar" of the 1920s. [2]

So where are wages from an affordability standpoint? Well, to be sure, one can compare non-inflation adjusted prices over time as the AEI did in a 2014 essay it published. If one does, things will look better now than 60 years ago. To wit...

Another way to "mess with" the presentation is to depict expensive items that most people buy infrequently and show them alongside inexpensive and more frequently purchased goods. The chart above depicts non-inflation adjusted figures showing how long one would have (have had) to work to afford the items shown at the wages shown.

How many Americans buy or rent housing without the cost of major appliances being part of the mortgage or rent? Few; thus while it's didactically interesting that in 2013 it takes a $19.30/hour ($40K/year) worker 23 hours to obtain the cash needed to buy a washing machine, just how many washing machines do think that worker bought between 1973 and 2013? Even looking at the goods noted, there's a problem. Of the items shown, how much advancement do you suppose has to happen for folks to replace those extant and working durable goods with a new one? Take the TV. People fairly well flocked to replace their CRT TVs with flat screens. Now there are fancier flat screens, like AMOLED ones perhaps, but is there a crush to replace "standard" plasma/LED TVs with AMOLED ones? Only among certain classes of consumers -- mainly enthusiasts and "rich-enough" folks who, respectively, feel pressed to do so or who just can so they do.

(Note: Replacing some durable goods for emotional reasons, such as their looking un-stylish, is a different matter. That's called redecorating, not replacing a refrigerator, and it is a hugely discretionary purchase in comparison with replacing one that no longer functions properly. I don't know what the figures would be for car prices, but seeing that chart above, the first thing that came to mind was why isn't a car shown?

The point is that affordability must be considered both in the abstract, as in the chart above, as well as in reality, which means the cost of certain kinds of goods is a poor barometric surrogate for/illustrator of affordability. The reality is that a person buying durable goods in 2013 probably wasn't buying any such goods in 1973. Who might have been? People who are quite old now and whose durable item has died, and are they working and thus able to experience increasing wages? No. So, yes, nice graphic and good data, but it's total sophistry to apply that data in support of an argument that affordability has increased in real terms.

Another problem with that chart above is that it conveniently goes from 1973 to 2013. What does one find when examining wages from the 1970s to the present?

​

You surely notice that when adjusted for the general increase in goods and services prices, the slight incline the green, orange and red lines had is gone. Even the slope of the purple line is dramatically less. What does that imply? It implies that individuals in those income ranges have less purchasing power today than they did in 1973. That should come as no surprise given what you see in the "mybudget" chart above. If one needs a straight on depiction of that, here. (Don't make anything of the slope of the chart below; the one below places the dependent quantity on a log scale so the chart can cover 200 independent units.)
​

People like to say "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." That's not actually what happens. The poor don't really get poorer; they just can't afford to buy as much stuff. The rich do get richer and they do so at a rate well ahead of inflation.

​

What does 10 lbs of sugar cost today? To best inflation, the price must be less than $10.​

• Domino - $18​
• Domino - $6​

How about a gallon of vitamin D milk? If the price bests inflation, it will cost less than $8.56. We all know it costs far less than that.

There are many factors that contribute to certain goods prices being dramatically less expensive today than a long time ago. One of the major reasons is the efficiency deriving from technology implementations in the production and delivery of commodities and low price branded goods. In short, producers and sellers of those goods can, with the implementation of cost saving technology and processes, continue to make what they consider a suitable profit and do so without having to increase the price at or above the rate at which prices in general increase.

Coming finally back to our McDonald's case study example, one sees that manifest. In 1955, a cheeseburger was $0.19. If the price of McDonald's cheeseburgers keep pace with inflation, they should cost $1.71. Well, two cheeseburgers cost $2.00.
​

​

Dealing with the Forbes article:
You know what allows low price sellers to remain competitive as low price sellers? Replacing labor with capital, which is precisely what the McDonald's self-service kiosks are. So what you need to ask yourself is this: do you want to continue to find low prices at places like McDonald's? The fact is that whether you do or not, by lowering their food service delivery costs, McDonald's Corporation and its franchisees can realize greater profits. That's a win-win for the corporation and for the franchisee, the latter being one of the small business owners for whom Ed Rensi seems so concerned.
​

From/regarding the Forbes article:
McDonald’s announced the nationwide roll-out of touchscreen self-service kiosks.​

• Fact: the $15 min wage is not nationwide.​
• Fact: McDonald's deployment of the kiosks is nationwide.​

Because the kiosk deployment is nationwide rather than limited to locales where the minimum wage is $15, it stands to reason that the kiosks are more cost effective than is paying a cashier, regardless of whether a cashier earns $7.25 or $15.00 per hour. While the kiosk implementation roughly coincides with the $15/hour wage hike, that it does cannot rationally be taken as evidence the price increase catalyzed cashier automation.​

Not all businesses have the capital necessary to shift from full-service to self-service.​

​

Of course some will fail to make that change and also offer nothing that motivates consumers to buy their goods. Those businesses will close. There's no reason to think that minimizing operational process costs is the only dimension where businesses must be able to remain competitive. Business owners can opt to fall somewhere on the spectrum between artisanal and mass market. If they want to play in the latter end of the marketplace, being able to generate revenues that allow them to keep pace with technology advances is a core competency at which they must excel.

Rensi makes out as though his having foreseen that happening was surprisingly prescient on his part. Well, I have news for him. Anyone who took Marketing and Microeconomics 101 would make the same prediction because that's just how textbook is his prediction. Rensi equates his predictive ability with lamentations about small businesses collapsing. Well, just what does he think a McDonald's franchise is? A multinational corporation?​

Customers have a limit to what they will pay for service.​

Yes, they do. In the context Rensi's essay, however, it's important to note what Rensi does not. Businesses need to make a profit.
​

The Fight for $15 was always more a creation of the left-wing Service Employees International Union (SEIU) rather than a legitimate grassroots effort. Reuters reported last year that, based on federal filings, the SEIU had spent anywhere from $24 million to $50 million on the its Fight for $15 campaign, and the number has surely increased since then.​

​

Well, sure to some degree, but the union's concerns and actions are tangential to what lies at the heart of the matter. The heart of the matter is about large, profitable and innovative businesses besting their competitors as businesses. Rensi can wax romantic about "grassroots efforts and mom and pop," and so on, but the fact is that it's all about the "trophy and the race," not the "horse." If mom and pop want to play the game of business, they can, but if they don't keep that in mind, the race is what they will lose for their competitors are there to win, not merely to say they "ran."

Seen in that light, the union role is very clear. Unions have members in large organizations, not at mom and pop establishments. Thus, for as much as there would seem to be animosity between unions and big corporation management, the reality is that they have a far more symbiotic relationship that it seems by looking at the superficial haranguing that makes the news.​

What annoys me about stories like the one Forbes ran:
Let me very clear here. Whether the minimum wage rises, stays the same or fall is not what bothers me. What disconcerts me is people, presumably bright people, advancing the notion that it is the wage increase that is the problem. The wage increase isn't the problem. The problem is that for decades modern Western society has given us visible indicators of what was to come and now that "tomorrow" has become "today," people are up in arms over it and making out as though legislators who stipulate a higher minimum wage are the ones to blame.

The blame lies with the people who watched TNG and who saw cashiers using touchscreen registers. For what are they culpable? For seeing those things and not saying to themselves:​

"Oh, my. Look at how technology will change the way work is performed. I don't know when that's going to happen, but given given what I see before me, not just in sci-fi entertainment but also in the real world, I better take steps now to minimize or eliminate the risk that the changes adversely affect me. What can I do that will allow me to embrace the change when it comes? Maybe I could, instead of buying that "whatever," spend that money at my local community college to learn how to do something that pays halfway decently and that won't be replaced by technology before I am ready to retire."​

That's the worker side of the picture. What about the business owner side? To be sure a bit more savvy is needed and expected of capitalists, entrepreneurs. Owners have to realize that the key to being able to keep up is business growth. Thinking about McDonald's franchisees, what distinctive competency and innovation do do those franchise owners bring to the table? Little to none if you ask me. The product isn't their innovation. The process isn't their innovation. Quite simply they are merely financiers of McDonald's brand and product and what they get in return for spreading those things is the profit from operating a McDonald's restaurant.

It's absurd to think that there's anywhere to grow under that model. The growth is limited by the potential traffic flow into a given store. Great reward comes from innovation, not from exploiting an existing and very mature innovation. Business owners (potential business owners) should understand that. It's why the owner-creators of new restaurants that offer something existing ones do not stand to make handsome profits. (Whether they do depends on a variety of factors, but the point here is that the potential to do so exists whereas it does not exist as the owner of a single unit restaurant franchise.)​

​

Notes:​

[1] -- I mean the type that require two contact points -- one inside the device and one on its surface.
[2]

Sorry the very start has the crappy audio. It clears up soon after.
​

If you actually watch the video above, you'll (hopefully) understand why it is politically advantageous for presidential administrations in our fractiously partisan political times to, despite their claims about reducing the debt, increase the national debt as much as they think they can get away with doing. If you think that'll be any different with Trump, you need to do more than watch that one video.​

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

No time at all seeing as it's basically the same program that employees used at the cash register but with a different user interface and an integrated cash receipts and disbursement routine for handling the cash payments a cashier would have handled. There's no new functionality in the kiosks and it just took one added piece of functionality -- the cash receipts function, which is no different than the one is a soda machine or grocery store checkout -- to make a human cashier obsolete.

 

[owebo]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

No time at all seeing as it's basically the same program that employees used at the cash register but with a different user interface and an integrated cash receipts and disbursement routine for handling the cash payments a cashier would have handled. There's no new functionality in the kiosks and it just took one added piece of functionality -- the cash receipts function, which is no different than the one is a soda machine or grocery store checkout -- to make a human cashier obsolete.

No...to make the cost of a human cashier obsolete.....

 

[Mac1958]

Considering that McDonalds made 9 billion net profit last year, they could certainly afford to adjust those fees to assist franchise owners with changes in the minimum wage.

First, the reason a corporation exists is to maximize shareholder value. That's it. Further, a corporation has a fiduciary (read: LEGAL) obligation to do so. They can be sued.

Second, McDonald's shareholders include young families saving for the future and senior citizens depending on dividends (currently a healthy 3.11%) for retirement income.

So, it's more complicated than just writing a check.
.

 

[martybegan]

They are getting better and better. Most of the CVS's and Walgreens I go into have self checkout. Same as the Stop & shops.

Their biggest issue isn't the reliability of the machines, its people trying to steal crap. That's where a cashier/bagger is a more effective barrier.

But the companies are working on the theft angle.

I'm curious about this - some of the stores around here have self-checkout and it looks like it would be pretty easy to steal stuff.

What are the stores doing to prevent it?

1. Big burly guys right by the self-checkouts.
2. Random spot checks of people's bags when they leave
3. Cameras, Cameras, Cameras. They may not stop the shoplifter the first time, but shoplifting seems to be a big repeat crime, so they watch them more the next time they come in the store.

 

[initforme]

McDonalds: driving up healthcare every day. We'relovi g that. I don't think kids should be eating it until they are adults.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Where? Liberia?

Take a closer look.

Those are qualitative benefits that I can't quantify for any specific store. I don't know whether someone has run the numbers on an industry level, but I do know I see self-service checkouts in all sorts of mass-appeal stores. That said, it shouldn't take much to see that those benefits translate into better bottom line figures. The key question to ask is how long might it take.

Let's see what we can "guestimate" ... Remember that for McDonald's, it doesn't matter who works the counter/register...Such is the nature of low skill work; such labor is a commodity, not a differentiable "product."

Something like these are what we are estimating for.

• Automated Cashier consists of three subassemblies that are integrated into one unit that customers interact with. Based on the information shown below, I estimate they cost approximately $3500 - $4000 per machine or $12K - $16K per store.
  • A top of the line touch screen cash register costs $2000. Allowing for the revised form factor, let's say they cost $2500 each. I think that's high, but I'll go with it.
    
    
    
    
    
  • Cash dispensing module: $500 (I know it's far cheaper when McD's is buying them, but we'll go with this)
    
    
    
    
    
  • Credit card processing machine: $500
    
    
    
• Cashier staffing model for a restaurant like McDonald's which is open 24/7/365 --> ~$169,400
  • 3 cashiers from six a.m. to 11 p.m. (16 hours) and one for the overnight shift.
    • 17 hours a day x $8 an hour x 3 three people x 365 days a year --> ~$149,000.
    • 7 hours a day x $8 an hour x 1 person 365 days a year --> ~$20,400

As you can see, a simple self-service point of sale device is far less expensive than is having four employees.

But what about the fancy new "Create Your Taste" kiosks. Well, for those to bring value, the picture's definitely different. Those machines are reported to cost from $120K to $160K to implement (meaning three or four of them in a store). That's a somewhat large upfront sum, but I suspect that McDonald's has a financing program for its franchisees. Be that as it may, you can see quite easily that after the first year, the machines begin to save money, and in a big way. Even if you say the cost of the fancy machines were $160K each, we're looking at something around four years for the payoff point.

Create Your Taste Kiosk

 

[Winston]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Did you read the article you quoted? McDonalds head office takes 35% of that $2.6 million for rent, franchise fees and various other charges.

Considering that McDonalds made 9 billion net profit last year, they could certainly afford to adjust those fees to assist franchise owners with changes in the minimum wage.

McDonalds in Canada manages to pay $12 per hour and our prices are lower on some items that they are in the US. So does Walmart. Both corporations are very profitable in Canada. Puts the lie to the idea that these companies can't afford a wage hike.



Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Why the fuck would McDonalds corporate make the capital investment for the benefit of the owner? And if McDonalds corporate is willing to purchase automated equipment on behalf of the owner they can just as easily CUT those FEES in order for the owners to pay their help a living wage.

 

[AntonToo]

When in reality they lost $2.30 dollars?

No. When an employer gives a rate increase, he also has to pay more to match their SS contributions, to match their Medicare contributions, it increases their unemployment and workman's compensation insurance since if there is a claim, they would have to pay out more because compensation is based on their wage.

Then there is vacation and holidays to consider since that's money you are being paid for not working. If you work for a company that pays into your retirement plan based on your gross pay (like my company) that's also an additional expense.

So whats the total /hour cost increase for $2/h raise?

P.S. vacations and holidays for minimum wage workers? Really?

It varies by state. For instance in our state, my employer is paying over 50K a year just for workman's compensation insurance, and we have less than a dozen employees and no major claims. When he gives out raises, that insurance (along with unemployment) increases.

So there is absolutely no number that would seem reasonable to you?

To me that number should be around 2.30, at 15% extra cost.

Like I said, it depends on the state.

When Commie Care went into play and my employer dropped our insurance, he decided to give us the money he was paying for our insurance instead, minus his costs. Because Commie Care was designed to screw people, they made no provision for employers to do what my employer wanted to do; just hand over a tax free check. All employers could do is give a pay increase minus their associated costs.

He provided us a list of what he had to pay in order to give us that raise for him to break even. I didn't keep the list, but it was something like $170.00 a month. That's almost half of what he was paying for our insurance. Granted, he does contribute to our retirement, but those other associated costs are much more than you think. He didn't include what it would cost him extra for vacations and holidays. So I'm sure it's pretty close to the same.

You aren't being clear - what is the actual $ difference between what he saved on cutting your health insurance and giving you a raise.

You are saying he was saving $340 a month on cutting your insurance, but only giving you $170 ? 100% multiplier on raise cost?

Minimum wage workers, as a rule of thumb, do not get vacations, do not get retirement do not get holiday or even sick days. Their math on multiplier has a lot less variables then you are trying to portray.

 

[Winston]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Did you read the article you quoted? McDonalds head office takes 35% of that $2.6 million for rent, franchise fees and various other charges.

Considering that McDonalds made 9 billion net profit last year, they could certainly afford to adjust those fees to assist franchise owners with changes in the minimum wage.

McDonalds in Canada manages to pay $12 per hour and our prices are lower on some items that they are in the US. So does Walmart. Both corporations are very profitable in Canada. Puts the lie to the idea that these companies can't afford a wage hike.



Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

See how the far left does not understand how McDonalds works..

They do not under how a franchise business model works!

Silly far left drones!

Evidently YOU guys don't understand how a franchise operates. That 35% fee goes to CORPORATE. The billions of dollars sitting around are at CORPORATE. But it is the OWNERS that have to finance the capital investment necessary to automate. It has to come from THEIR profits, not corporate.

 

[danielpalos]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

This is where socialist intervention gets you.

better products at lower cost?

 

[danielpalos]

GOP-We only support welfare for corporations!
GOP-Too stupid to realize underpaid workers=workers getting welfare!

Lot of McDonalds employees wishing they were making $12 soon.

And lot of republicans whining that their tax dollars are paying for the welfare of underpaid workers that the COMPANY should have been paying legit wages...but like I said yall got no problem with corporate welfare....its just when the poor person needs it.

Corporate welfare is like climate change, a misleading term that causes people to think something that's really not. You know, like "hacking" when nothing was hacked, just somebody broke into some emails. But the uninformed voter thinks of somebody hacking into the election.

Letting companies keep more of THEIR money is not welfare of any kind. Giving people money from other people is.

Yes, we whine when government subsidies workers with welfare. We do not complain about the money they make, that's their business. We complain that they are getting welfare from the government when they shouldn't be.

They wouldn't NEED nor GET welfare if the corporations weren't stealing their labor for unfair wages. Not only do the companies get away with wage theft but they also end up having the best lawyers around get around paying ANY taxes!

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Go live in North Korea communist. No mean Ol capitalist there.

crony socialism instead of crony capitalism?

our Founding Fathers already gave us, a clue and a Cause, with our federal Doctrine.

 

[danielpalos]

GOP-We only support welfare for corporations!
GOP-Too stupid to realize underpaid workers=workers getting welfare!

Lot of McDonalds employees wishing they were making $12 soon.

And lot of republicans whining that their tax dollars are paying for the welfare of underpaid workers that the COMPANY should have been paying legit wages...but like I said yall got no problem with corporate welfare....its just when the poor person needs it.

Corporate welfare is like climate change, a misleading term that causes people to think something that's really not. You know, like "hacking" when nothing was hacked, just somebody broke into some emails. But the uninformed voter thinks of somebody hacking into the election.

Letting companies keep more of THEIR money is not welfare of any kind. Giving people money from other people is.

Yes, we whine when government subsidies workers with welfare. We do not complain about the money they make, that's their business. We complain that they are getting welfare from the government when they shouldn't be.

They wouldn't NEED nor GET welfare if the corporations weren't stealing their labor for unfair wages. Not only do the companies get away with wage theft but they also end up having the best lawyers around get around paying ANY taxes!

View attachment 106326 View attachment 106327 View attachment 106328 View attachment 106329

There you go with your Clintonization of words. There is no theft there.

If you are selling a car for less than that I think it's worth, and I buy your car, did I steal anything from you? Of course not. We both agreed on the deal.

Nobody forces you to work for them. They offer a job for X wages, and you either accept the job or you don't. There is nothing unfair about that.

That being said, it's not up to an employer to pay you enough wages to keep you off of welfare, that's what you need to do for yourself. Walmart and McDonald's doesn't give you welfare--Democrat politicians give you welfare. So if you want to slow down welfare, don't look at McDonald's or Walmart to do that because they didn't give you welfare in the first place. You elect politicians that promise to end welfare for those people instead, and then those workers can figure out what they need to to do make up for it.

just underpayment (under duress) due to the right's insistence in a "work or die" ethic from the Age of Iron, in the Age of Corporate Welfare for artificial persons.

The fantastical right wing, loves to showcase, their moral of "goodwill toward artificial men" not real men.

 

[danielpalos]

I love the innovation that the push for a $15.00 federal minimum wage was fostered! Thanks, Service Employees International Union, for speeding up the process of convenience to the customer.

I'd rather buy a cheeseburger from a kiosk than a shithead snowflake who thinks this is a career anyways.

I had a couple I rented an apartment to. They moved out about a year ago. They were with me for several years, and both worked restaurant jobs. She worked at Pizza Hut and he at McDonald's.

It's not like there were no other opportunities around, it's just that they smoked pot and couldn't get a better job because better jobs drug test employees.

They were always late with the rent, drove beat up cars, but they always paid and were good kids. It was my hope that one day when financial interests became more important than pot, they's smoke their last bag and concentrate how to be more productive in life.

If we ever had a huge increase in minimum wage, that day might come a lot later if at all. They would be professional pizza flippers and french fry makers, and never pursue a better life for themselves.

probably just a phase they are going through, once they realize it is about politics and how you place the blame.

they probably just need to watch more videos on YouTube, on how to fix things, like their car, appliances, property, etc. It is incredible what you can learn at home, just watching the YouTube.

 

[danielpalos]

They are getting better and better. Most of the CVS's and Walgreens I go into have self checkout. Same as the Stop & shops.

Their biggest issue isn't the reliability of the machines, its people trying to steal crap. That's where a cashier/bagger is a more effective barrier.

But the companies are working on the theft angle.

I'm curious about this - some of the stores around here have self-checkout and it looks like it would be pretty easy to steal stuff.

What are the stores doing to prevent it?

simply asking Persons to abstain and just say, no.