Measuring success in Afghanistan withdrawal

[Independent thinker]

What would you define as a SUCCESSFUL EXIT?

I thought my post was quite clear. There is absolutely zero success in this. The word "success" can't be used in any way on this subject.

 

[Couchpotato]

There IS no clean way to do this.

The Afghan Army and government was made of paper.

If you walk though a pig sty you're likely to get some mud on your boots no doubt. We fell down and did the funky chicken in the pig shit.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I remind people that the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan was very smooth, and the Kabul government they left behind survived for over THREE more years! It survived even after Russian aid stopped. In fact the Afghan government in Kabul survived for nine months even after the Soviet Union itself collapsed!

The Afghan government the Soviets left behind survived despite the fact that the U.S. continued giving military aid to the fanatic Mujahadin “freedom fighter” jihadists — who were an earlier warlord incarnation of the Talaban jihadists.

Besides being arrogant and stupid, most Americans are shamefully ill-informed about this earlier period: Much of the Soviet “invasion” force was made up of soldiers from Afghanistan’s bordering Muslim Central Asian Soviet Republics. They at least understood the culture of Afghanistan, spoke many of its dialects. Their own grandmothers had been much like Muslim country folk, wearing the veil, etc. They helped Afghans build far more roads, schools, hospitals, and educate far more women … than we ever did.

The Soviets, brutal though they could be in war, bureaucratically structured as they were, still helped build up a far stronger, broader, and more secular armed forces than we ever did in Afghanistan. Those Afghans fought hard because they believed in what they were fighting for — even in the provinces. Had the U.S. (under Carter & Reagan) never intervened, the Soviets (under Gorbachev) would never have pulled the plug in Afghanistan. The result would likely have been a big defeat of worldwide Islamic fundamentalism, a tolerable moderate Afghan state, and a situation far better than the horrible one the U.S. brought to Afghanistan in the early 1990s.

Of course the U.S. narrative was all a lie in those days. We ignore our despicable role then. That was all before our Saudi “ally“ Bin Laden (who worked with our CIA in Afghanistan) turned on us and brought us 9/11. Before we commenced our own corrupt MIC version of “nation building.” Let us not forget those earlier days when we were in the “nation destroying” game to satisfy our Cold War obsession to “teach the Russians a lesson” and give them “their own Vietnam.”

Had the Russians or Chinese given the Talaban the billions of dollars and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles we gave the Mujahadin, the U.S. would never have lasted more than a year or two in Afghanistan. We brought our own defeat … on ourselves,

 

[mudwhistle]

From what I've read the covid rates are similar to the US population. They should all be tested and a vax required for entry imo, we have no shortage of vax now. I just don't agree with total sealing of any border and asylum seekers shouldn't be forced to remain in violent dangerous situations. JMO on it.

If the other side of the border is violent or dangerous....why the hell would you want an open border???

 

[Coyote]

If the other side of the border is violent or dangerous....why the hell would you want an open border???

No one is talking about an open border. Strawman.

 

[mudwhistle]

No one is talking about an open border. Strawman.

Nobody but the Biden Administration.
Any open door in the border means an open border.
They aren't preventing them from coming in.
They're just processing them when they get in.
That is the definition of open-borders.

 

[mudwhistle]

Fmr CIA Analyst Zeller: Biden Lied, No Plan to Stop Allies Being Slaughtered by 'Nazi' Taliban

Former CIA analyst Matt Zeller told MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace Monday on her show "Deadline" that President Joe Biden lied to the American people during his address on the chaotic evacuation of Afghans that worked with our military over the last 20 years. | Clips

www.breitbart.com

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[citygator]

I was using the metric you outlined in the OP. Everyone gets out. I guess your definition of "everyone" will determine the grade. But seriously, even if "everyone" gets out of Afghanistan ok, at best it's a D+? Maybe C-.

Really? biden pulls out of Afghanistan and everyone is safe and you’re going D+. Uh. Ok.

 

[MarathonMike]

Not left our people, allies, weapons, vehicles and other treasure back on the ground. With no plans in place. Obviously.

Yes and at a minimum the thousands of Afghans who acted as interpreters and liasons for our military should have been granted visas BEFORE we cut and ran. Now they and their families are targeted for death by the Taliban. Why would any foreign national ever trust us again?

 

[citygator]

Yes and at a minimum the thousands of Afghans who acted as interpreters and liasons for our military should have been granted visas BEFORE we cut and ran. Now they and their families are targeted for death by the Taliban. Why would any foreign national ever trust us again?

The 300k strong Afghan army wasn’t supposed to do a whiff in 24 hours.

 

[bendog]

A successful withdrawal of Afghanistan will be if every American soldier and civil service worker gets out alive. How else will you measure success?

It will depend on AQ and the Taliban. No rational person would ever have thought Afghan was going to be more than a feudal-warlord or fundamentalist Muslim theocracy. IF that was the mission, wtf?

In Iraq, W thought we'd see some blossoming of democracy, but some say he never knew there were differences in shia and sunni.

 

[Faun]

I agree with you. The way we left was an absolute disaster. We should have left in December not August. I think however no matter how or when we would have withdrawn, the Taliban still would have overrun the Country in months, if not, days.

We should have left by May 1st. That was the agreement with the Taliban. And ALL Americans should have been out by that date. That's on Biden.

 

[citygator]

Many of you are conflating the fall of the Afghan government with the pull out. That dog don’t hunt. It may be a tense evacuation but this isn’t Disney at closing time. The ability to maintain government is on them not us - as sad as it is.

Many Afghanis are gonna want to come to the US, more than we’ll likely take. That can’t be the measure of success either. Getting out men and women out safely is the goal. Any help for refugees is a bonus.

 

[Couchpotato]

Really? biden pulls out of Afghanistan and everyone is safe and you’re going D+. Uh. Ok.

Yeah. A D+ at best on execution. Seriously the only reason the Taliban hasnt over run the airport is they have chosen not to. Everyone being allowed to exit the country safely is a really low bar given the Taliban has to know death from above awaits if they do anything completely stupid. What grade would you give them?>

 

[citygator]

Yeah. A D+ at best on execution. Seriously the only reason the Taliban hasnt over run the airport is they have chosen not to. Everyone being allowed to exit the country safely is a really low bar given the Taliban has to know death from above awaits if they do anything completely stupid. What grade would you give them?>

A+ Unless people aren’t safely evacuated.

 

[bendog]

Many of you are conflating the fall of the Afghan government with the pull out. That dog don’t hunt. It may be a tense evacuation but this isn’t Disney at closing time. The ability to maintain government is on them not us - as sad as it is.

Many Afghanis are gonna want to come to the US, more than we’ll likely take. That can’t be the measure of success either. Getting out men and women out safely is the goal. Any help for refugees is a bonus.

An occupier always leaves behind the collaborators. I guess my question will always be whether the nation building hooky was necessary to keep AQ from planning new attacks for the past 12-16 years, and what will happen now. And I really doubt the anti-immigration folks in the gop would be all cool with afghans coming here by the tens of thousands.

 

[marvin martian]

A successful withdrawal of Afghanistan will be if every American soldier and civil service worker gets out alive. How else will you measure success?

Where does this rank?

 

[Couchpotato]

A+ Unless people aren’t safely evacuated.

LOL ok guy. There's no way you can grade this debacle an A+. Are you honestly going to sit here and say this was a well planned and executed operation? I guarantee the US citizens in Afghanistan wouldnt give it an A+ grade regardless of what the outcome ends up being.