Mike Huckabee is the next president of the U.S.

[Shogun]

I would retort that Leviticus is about as indicative in conveying the will of god as is Moroni is to non-mormons. By Leviticus, Moses is already forming laws that directly reflect the behaviours of man rather than a will of god similar to the entire reason for the ten commandments. From this angle, Moses is nothing more than a jewish Jo Smith. I'm not asking for what MOSES claimes that god thinks.


God did the 7 days. In that time he made man Gen 1. Then he made Adam & eve chapter 2.

If this is the case then why would he SPECIFICALLY make it clear that his work was done in 2:1-4?


The incest would take place if he did not make other people before Adam & Eve. Not from the rib bone.

But, again, remove the Moses filter and show me where GOD conveyed as much without a human mouth familiar with human culture to say as much. Where is the scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. for that matter, why even say anything about adam and eve if they were not? How would EARLIER humans than adam and eve have circumvented the retribution for Eves sin if they came BEFORE Eden and the temptation? Were those earlier humans not ALREADY having sex by the time Adam and Eve were created? If so, what's the point of the story then?




The tree in the garden of good and evil wasn't an actual apple. It was Satan talking Eve into having sex. The first thing she did after comming(no pun intended) from the tree was have sex with Adam.

can you show me scripure to back that up? I see nothing in Ch 3 that remotely suggests that the fruit from the tree of knowledge was sex.

In fact, sex couldn't have been the temptation since GOD specifically stated for his creation to multiply. I'm thinking that the beasts didn't begin humping AFTER eve ate the proverbial fruit.



3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Seems pretty clear from this angle..


Cain is the seed of satan and Abel is the seed of Adam.

um, I'm afraid i'm going to have to ask for evident scipture.


That is why Cain slew Abel.

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

It seems to read that Cain was, in fact, the progeny of A&E. From how I read the bible Cain slew able because god rejected his fruit offering while accepting able's offering of meat. I see nothing indicating anything about Cain's paternal satanic father.



The first "Man" God made did not have souls.

um, scripture evidence please. I hope you are not referring to the Nephelim here.




Adam was the first "Man" God gave a soul to. Cain went to Nod and took a wife because there were already people before Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel. The decendants of Cain were and are the Kenites. Cain was the spawn of satan. Eventually Eve has another child by Adam named Seth which begins the lineage to Noah. God found favor and Grace with Noah because he was not a Kenite. He then tried to wipe out all the bad seed with the flood. The reason God was so pissed is because he gave Adam a soul, which in turn gave Eve a soul. Any Children comming from her would have a soul be it from Adam or from Satan. Any children of Cain would be a soul decendant of Satan. THats why God was so pissed and tried to kill all the Kenites with the flood.



What denomination are you again? I respect your opinions but I'm hella curious which denomination takes this angle. Doesn't this perspective assume that pre-eden humanity was already sinful regardless of Eves actions? Don't you think it's awfully FUNNY how MOSES seems to indicate that GOD favors HIS lineage above ALL other human creations? Regardless of all that since I'm sure you will provide the appropriate versus, can you fathom how this MOSES FILTER might just have motive to, um, embellish the tale in his favor, so to speak? In comparison, can you understand how MOSES may not be an accurate mouthpiece of god much like, I daresay, you might think of Jo Smith and his tale of moroni?

 

[Lookout]

I would retort that Leviticus is about as indicative in conveying the will of god as is Moroni is to non-mormons. By Leviticus, Moses is already forming laws that directly reflect the behaviours of man rather than a will of god similar to the entire reason for the ten commandments. From this angle, Moses is nothing more than a jewish Jo Smith. I'm not asking for what MOSES claimes that god thinks.


God did the 7 days. In that time he made man Gen 1. Then he made Adam & eve chapter 2.

If this is the case then why would he SPECIFICALLY make it clear that his work was done in 2:1-4?


The incest would take place if he did not make other people before Adam & Eve. Not from the rib bone.

But, again, remove the Moses filter and show me where GOD conveyed as much without a human mouth familiar with human culture to say as much. Where is the scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. for that matter, why even say anything about adam and eve if they were not? How would EARLIER humans than adam and eve have circumvented the retribution for Eves sin if they came BEFORE Eden and the temptation? Were those earlier humans not ALREADY having sex by the time Adam and Eve were created? If so, what's the point of the story then?




The tree in the garden of good and evil wasn't an actual apple. It was Satan talking Eve into having sex. The first thing she did after comming(no pun intended) from the tree was have sex with Adam.

can you show me scripure to back that up? I see nothing in Ch 3 that remotely suggests that the fruit from the tree of knowledge was sex.

In fact, sex couldn't have been the temptation since GOD specifically stated for his creation to multiply. I'm thinking that the beasts didn't begin humping AFTER eve ate the proverbial fruit.



3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Seems pretty clear from this angle..


Cain is the seed of satan and Abel is the seed of Adam.

um, I'm afraid i'm going to have to ask for evident scipture.


That is why Cain slew Abel.

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

It seems to read that Cain was, in fact, the progeny of A&E. From how I read the bible Cain slew able because god rejected his fruit offering while accepting able's offering of meat. I see nothing indicating anything about Cain's paternal satanic father.



The first "Man" God made did not have souls.

um, scripture evidence please. I hope you are not referring to the Nephelim here.




Adam was the first "Man" God gave a soul to. Cain went to Nod and took a wife because there were already people before Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel. The decendants of Cain were and are the Kenites. Cain was the spawn of satan. Eventually Eve has another child by Adam named Seth which begins the lineage to Noah. God found favor and Grace with Noah because he was not a Kenite. He then tried to wipe out all the bad seed with the flood. The reason God was so pissed is because he gave Adam a soul, which in turn gave Eve a soul. Any Children comming from her would have a soul be it from Adam or from Satan. Any children of Cain would be a soul decendant of Satan. THats why God was so pissed and tried to kill all the Kenites with the flood.



What denomination are you again? I respect your opinions but I'm hella curious which denomination takes this angle. Doesn't this perspective assume that pre-eden humanity was already sinful regardless of Eves actions? Don't you think it's awfully FUNNY how MOSES seems to indicate that GOD favors HIS lineage above ALL other human creations? Regardless of all that since I'm sure you will provide the appropriate versus, can you fathom how this MOSES FILTER might just have motive to, um, embellish the tale in his favor, so to speak? In comparison, can you understand how MOSES may not be an accurate mouthpiece of god much like, I daresay, you might think of Jo Smith and his tale of moroni?

Shogun...You are going to have to give me some time with all that please. I will get back to you on all this though as soon as I figure out how to capture seperate quotes from a quote on this board and I have to do some research. I would like to take this space and appologize to anyone I have said hurtful things to on this board. There is a reason for it, not an excuse, a reason...First of all it is just my nature. I would have made a great fireman. I see fire and I run into it not from it. Second, I have been recently hurt at work and it has left me permanently crippled. I won't ever walk right again unless God does an intervention. The Doctors have done all they can. I am not looking for sympathy...just a little space when it comes to my spelling.

 

[Toro]

The Huckster's Chuck Norris ad is awesome.

 

[jillian]

God even admitted he made a mistake. 2 years ago you would be preeching to the choir. I don't know the answer to that or many other points that can be made about how it all goes and how some of it just seems like...WHAT??? Without it all going that way though, it would have not led to the lineage to Christ. I just know that for me, this was a milestone breakthrough. Since I have come back to Christ and tried to find the answers to the big "?" I am happier. Life seems a little easier. I like the feeling I get believing in God and Christ. It has made me a better person. I play well with others for the most part, and I am getting better and better. I have a long way to go and I am not perfect by any means, nor do I think I will ever be perfect or have all the answers. Thanks for everyone being nice and respectful and not turning this into a pissing match. Looking at my other posts, one of two things are true...I either have a long way to go or I am part Kenite. Look, I am not perfect. I guess I owe Taomon an apology for my actions.................

These discussions are always interesting to me. I think it's great when people have faith that makes them feel better about themselves and their lives. Nothing wrong with spirituality. My only issue is when people try to impose their religion on others. I kind of like my own because it gives me comfort, even if it isn't particularly *religious* and my beliefs are a kind of pot luck dinner of concepts.

 

[eots]

I think eve was a clone altered to be female..hence the "made from adams rib"

 

[Lookout]

These discussions are always interesting to me. I think it's great when people have faith that makes them feel better about themselves and their lives. Nothing wrong with spirituality. My only issue is when people try to impose their religion on others. I kind of like my own because it gives me comfort, even if it isn't particularly *religious* and my beliefs are a kind of pot luck dinner of concepts.

Everyone has a right to their beliefs...God bless America! Ok-Ok, I came off way too strong and Like I know it all. It's hard to not do that when you believe your way is right. As far as this Adam and Eve thing goes, It is my belief that there were other people made by God prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. That gives me peace to believe that in the whole mixed up mess atleast there wasn't incest...It works for me.

 

[AllieBaba]

One of the tenets of the CHristian faith is witnessing; i.e., we are told to share our faith with others.

It's unfortunate that there are those who see this as us trying to impose our religion on others. Imposing our religion on others would be forcing others to abide by it, and of course, that's completely un-Christian, as Christianity is all about choosing to believe.

The trend now is that anybody who makes a statement of Christian faith in mixed company is trying, just by stating their beliefs, to force that belief on others. Of course this only pertains to CHRISTIANS who state their beliefs. When Muslims or Atheists proclaim their beliefs, why they're just asserting their right to do so, and anybody who has a problem with that is a bigot, a hate monger, or something else equally awful.

Stating your belief in Jesus Christ as savior, your faith in God's plan, and your belief that only the saved will access heaven is not attempting to impose your belief on others. It's simply a statement of your own belief.

 

[Lookout]

Hey Shogun...Can we reverse rolls. I am much better at this from your perspective. Seeing your side is like looking in a mirror for me frome about 2 years ago. For now you have completly stopped me in my tracks. It feels like my head just exploded. I know that it is not your belief but can we agree that the book says God made man in Gen 1? then rested on the seventh. I know, and all work was done. If that were the case though there would be no more book. That would be the end of story. The bible goes on to show God working and fine tuning if you will throughout the Bible. Why would God mention he made man in 1 and leave out that Adam was that man. Where would Cain's wife come from? Why would there be a place called Nod that had people in it for him to take a wife? Would you believe that Adam and Eve had so many children that they populated a small town and that Cain's wife was actually his sister? It is hard to argue this, especially with an atheist. Especially on line on a message board.

 

[jillian]

Everyone has a right to their beliefs...God bless America! Ok-Ok, I came off way too strong and Like I know it all. It's hard to not do that when you believe your way is right. As far as this Adam and Eve thing goes, It is my belief that there were other people made by God prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. That gives me peace to believe that in the whole mixed up mess atleast there wasn't incest...It works for me.

When it comes to our beliefs, we *all* think our way is right or we wouldn't hold to those ways.

I was taught that the bible is allegory mixed with history. One should take its lessons, but there's nothing additional to be gained by needing it to have occurred exactly as written in the bible.

FWIW, the actual translation of genesis, which in it's original hebrew is B'raishis, is "In *a* beginning"... not "in *the* beginning". So a belief that something preceded the first humans is consistent with the actual words. But then again, so is the big bang.

 

[Lookout]

If this is the case then why would he SPECIFICALLY make it clear that his work was done in 2:1-4?

God never stops working throughout the bible. It was refering to the main project being completed.

But, again, remove the Moses filter and show me where GOD conveyed as much without a human mouth familiar with human culture to say as much. Where is the scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. for that matter, why even say anything about adam and eve if they were not? How would EARLIER humans than adam and eve have circumvented the retribution for Eves sin if they came BEFORE Eden and the temptation? Were those earlier humans not ALREADY having sex by the time Adam and Eve were created? If so, what's the point of the story then?

I do not have anything at this point for conveying it without a human mouth. Nor a human hand...any of it. God did not write the Bible with a bic pen and a giant hand. It was conveyed to humans by God who then wrote it down. Thus allowing for some human or Satanic influence and some of the translation being lost.

Where in the scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. for that matter, why even say anything about adam and eve if they were not?

No one is saying they were not. I am saying that they came after a period of time that "Man" was already created. No doubt Adam and Eve were Gods "special two". The reason they were special is they were given souls as aposed to the humans that were already created without """GODS BLESSING""" of a soul.

How would EARLIER humans than adam and eve have circumvented the retribution for Eves sin if they came BEFORE Eden and the temptation?

They wouldn't have to. They were a seperate work in progress. The entire Bible is a work in progress.

Were those earlier humans not ALREADY having sex by the time Adam and Eve were created? If so, what's the point of the story then?

I don't know, I wasn't there. I would imagine so. Otherwise how would they multiply. This is quite simple. God made a work in progress...MAN...Then made a man with his breath to be his chosen special one Adam. The point of the story is God did not want soulless puppets. He wanted them to follow the rules because they loved him and respected him, thats why he gave them free will.

 

[jillian]

If this is the case then why would he SPECIFICALLY make it clear that his work was done in 2:1-4?
God never stops working throughout the bible.

Are you referring to what I just wrote? I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[Lookout]

When it comes to our beliefs, we *all* think our way is right or we wouldn't hold to those ways.

I was taught that the bible is allegory mixed with history. One should take its lessons, but there's nothing additional to be gained by needing it to have occurred exactly as written in the bible.

FWIW, the actual translation of genesis, which in it's original hebrew is B'raishis, is "In *a* beginning"... not "in *the* beginning". So a belief that something preceded the first humans is consistent with the actual words. But then again, so is the big bang.

I think we need to clarify what we are debating. Is it the meaning of the Bible and what the book means in how it was written or the validity of it or both. The whole thing is much bigger than I and I don't have all the answers. Heck, I'm not saying the answers I have are even complete other than for me and there is always room for growth and understanding.

 

[Lookout]

Are you referring to what I just wrote? I'm not sure I understand the question.

No, this one was for Shogun. I do not know how to take quote for quote in a qoute and highlight it like Shogun did. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Lookout]

I gotta take a break. I can only do this for so long, it is exhausting.

 

[jillian]

I think we need to clarify what we are debating. Is it the meaning of the Bible and what the book means in how it was written or the validity of it or both. The whole thing is much bigger than I and I don't have all the answers. Heck, I'm not saying the answers I have are even complete other than for me and there is always room for growth and understanding.

Oh... I was just pointing out that the meaning of the bible can change depending on how you translate it from the original. That occurs again when G-d speaks to Moses through the burning bush. Hebrew has no present tense for the verb "to be", so it couldn't be translated to "I am what I am". The accurate translation is "I will be what I will be"... a much more expansive description of what G-d is.

I don't really believe there are correct answers. There are questions. There are hypotheses. There are things to contemplate. There's a reason that the socratic method came from the way the talmudi is studied.

 

[jillian]

No, this one was for Shogun. I do not know how to take quote for quote in a qoute and highlight it like Shogun did. Sorry for the confusion.

No prob.

 

[Lookout]

I would retort that Leviticus is about as indicative in conveying the will of god as is Moroni is to non-mormons. By Leviticus, Moses is already forming laws that directly reflect the behaviours of man rather than a will of god similar to the entire reason for the ten commandments. From this angle, Moses is nothing more than a jewish Jo Smith. I'm not asking for what MOSES claimes that god thinks.


God did the 7 days. In that time he made man Gen 1. Then he made Adam & eve chapter 2.

If this is the case then why would he SPECIFICALLY make it clear that his work was done in 2:1-4?


The incest would take place if he did not make other people before Adam & Eve. Not from the rib bone.

But, again, remove the Moses filter and show me where GOD conveyed as much without a human mouth familiar with human culture to say as much. Where is the scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. for that matter, why even say anything about adam and eve if they were not? How would EARLIER humans than adam and eve have circumvented the retribution for Eves sin if they came BEFORE Eden and the temptation? Were those earlier humans not ALREADY having sex by the time Adam and Eve were created? If so, what's the point of the story then?




The tree in the garden of good and evil wasn't an actual apple. It was Satan talking Eve into having sex. The first thing she did after comming(no pun intended) from the tree was have sex with Adam.

can you show me scripure to back that up? I see nothing in Ch 3 that remotely suggests that the fruit from the tree of knowledge was sex.

In fact, sex couldn't have been the temptation since GOD specifically stated for his creation to multiply. I'm thinking that the beasts didn't begin humping AFTER eve ate the proverbial fruit.



3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Seems pretty clear from this angle..


Cain is the seed of satan and Abel is the seed of Adam.

um, I'm afraid i'm going to have to ask for evident scipture.


That is why Cain slew Abel.

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

It seems to read that Cain was, in fact, the progeny of A&E. From how I read the bible Cain slew able because god rejected his fruit offering while accepting able's offering of meat. I see nothing indicating anything about Cain's paternal satanic father.



The first "Man" God made did not have souls.

um, scripture evidence please. I hope you are not referring to the Nephelim here.




Adam was the first "Man" God gave a soul to. Cain went to Nod and took a wife because there were already people before Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel. The decendants of Cain were and are the Kenites. Cain was the spawn of satan. Eventually Eve has another child by Adam named Seth which begins the lineage to Noah. God found favor and Grace with Noah because he was not a Kenite. He then tried to wipe out all the bad seed with the flood. The reason God was so pissed is because he gave Adam a soul, which in turn gave Eve a soul. Any Children comming from her would have a soul be it from Adam or from Satan. Any children of Cain would be a soul decendant of Satan. THats why God was so pissed and tried to kill all the Kenites with the flood.



What denomination are you again? I respect your opinions but I'm hella curious which denomination takes this angle. Doesn't this perspective assume that pre-eden humanity was already sinful regardless of Eves actions? Don't you think it's awfully FUNNY how MOSES seems to indicate that GOD favors HIS lineage above ALL other human creations? Regardless of all that since I'm sure you will provide the appropriate versus, can you fathom how this MOSES FILTER might just have motive to, um, embellish the tale in his favor, so to speak? In comparison, can you understand how MOSES may not be an accurate mouthpiece of god much like, I daresay, you might think of Jo Smith and his tale of moroni?

Allright second wind...round two. I never liked playing defense.

What exactly is the reason you are atheist? Even in my most obnoxious hour of anti-christian, I still believed there was a divine order and a God.

What brings a person to the point they dont believe in a God of any kind in any fashion? Is it science? Is it You just know better? Were you ever a believer of some sort? If so, why the change of mind or heart? If you did not believe you could tie your shoes, you could not tie your shoes. Have you ever asked God to reveal answers to you or asked him to show you anything? Not being an ass, serious questions. P.S. I know my spelling sucks. I know what the words mean that i am trying to use I just suck spelling them. Maybe I should ask God to make me a better speller.

The reason God favored Moses is he was a descendant of Noah who was a descendant of Seth who was a descendant of Adam. God favored Adams children and not Cain's because Cain was spawn of satan. Cain was not Adams child. It is easier to get it if you want to get it. To come at it from the point of view that you don't want to get it, you don't want to believe...You won't.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm an non-believer. The reason? Logic. Pure and simple as that. Logic tell me there is no such thing as a God. A lot of it is backed up by science. I used to be a believer but any type of religion with a diety involved is based on faith not fact. Until that changes, I'll be a non-believer....

 

[Lookout]

I'm an non-believer. The reason? Logic. Pure and simple as that. Logic tell me there is no such thing as a God. A lot of it is backed up by science. I used to be a believer but any type of religion with a diety involved is based on faith not fact. Until that changes, I'll be a non-believer....

Would that be the logic of a infintile finite human mind trying to rational the infinite or the infinite mind of God. Like trying to pour the pacific ocean into a wine glass. I'm curious, what did you believe and when? Was it a tramatic event that changed your mind or heart?

 

[Dr Grump]

Would that be the logic of a infintile finite human mind trying to rational the infinite or the infinite mind of God. Like trying to pour the pacific ocean into a wine glass. I'm curious, what did you believe and when? Was it a tramatic event that changed your mind or heart?

Why do you denigrate the human mind, after all, it created the god.

No, it was not traumatic in the least. I decided that the only reason I believed in a god was I was too scared not to. IOW, I believed because I thought I would be damned in hell if I didn't, which to me, was the wrong reason to believe. Do I believe there is something more powerful than humans? Yes, it is called nature. So believers say, well what makes nature? To which I reply, who made a god?