Militray service and politics

[GoneBezerk]

Ho-hum career for someone floating under the radar and getting by I see.

Not 1 tour in the middle east or Europe. Yeah, the Army has never been in those places, now Alaska, that is the top of the food chain for Army grunts.

Never stationed in the FRG. Did a lot of grunt time in Alaska, a couple of tours in Korea, spent some time at Huachuca, plus the airborne school at Benning as a trainee and later cadre. Finished with 1st Cav.

The motorpool was the climax of your Army career.

Did you get to drive trucks around Germany? Did you get stuck in the mud? Sounds exciting.

A simple story from a time in the maintenace battalion, and you go bezerk on it.

You look absolutely boot here. Keep it up.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Hmmm . . . the only discharg on file for Kerry is Honorable. Got more on it than that? I mean not conjecture, but actually something?

It was upgraded after Carter's '77 Amnesty Declaration.. see Kerry's acceptance of the Claytor Honorable Discharge, issued in 1978. Kerry was originally discharged in 1970 and nothing of that discharge has been offered.

What do you have official that it was upgraded? Want a solid piece of evidence: not blogging or conjecturing.

Kerry had a DD215 on his web site..... A DD215 is a correction or change to the DD 214.......

 

[NLT]

Ahhh, his left-wing views bubble to the top.

Gays in the military don't promote unity in a unit. It is not the same as straight men showering and living among each other in close quarters when gay men get to "mingle" among them, especially openly now.

I don't have a problem with gay people, but I don't want their lifestyle pushed on me and I wouldn't be ok with them showering and living with me in closed quarters.

There is no privacy in the military at bootcamp, on a ship, in a tent so putting some man that is attracted to other men among other men in that situation is disrepectful towards the straight men. Hell, why can't a straight man just shower and sleep in the women's dorm/tent? Come on jughead, your little brain can figure this out.

But really, we understand you were a jughead to stare at men in the shower, fess up. You and Jakey have some love thingy going on.....jugheads and dogs in love.

the only dishonorable thing about homosexuals serving in the military was the fact that it was deemed as a mental disorder.

Curious Sparky....if there were unisex showers...would you have a problem with women showering in the same showers as you?

Likely, you would be beating off til your palms were raw.

Oh yeah...and an FYI...I am a conservaitve through and through.....but recognize that Gay people are no different than I am...for I am not a conservative who is guided by religion.
I am guided by my ideology.

Jarhead, did you have to identify your sexuality when you enlisted? Did you truthfuly answer the question? did your raise your right hand swear

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

If you took this oath and you lied about your sexuality, then you desrved to get discharged until the law was changed December 22, 2010

I dont mean you personally.

 

[bodecea]

He could pitch his medals all he wanted. And he ended up being right about Viet Nam....maybe that's the worst crime of all.

What would you know about honor OTH. You lied about your sexuality when you enlisted and you served dishonorably.

Where does THAT conclusion originate? "Lied about your sexuality"? "Served dishonorably"? My father never mentioned being ASKED.*

*Imagine IF our military leaders had INVESTIGATED the sexual orientation of all who volunteered after 12/07/41. We might now be speaking German...........

Not to worry Peach....NLT seems to be one of those male sailors that got out classed by the women sailors around them and is totally bitter about it now.

 

[NLT]

What would you know about honor OTH. You lied about your sexuality when you enlisted and you served dishonorably.

Where does THAT conclusion originate? "Lied about your sexuality"? "Served dishonorably"? My father never mentioned being ASKED.*

*Imagine IF our military leaders had INVESTIGATED the sexual orientation of all who volunteered after 12/07/41. We might now be speaking German...........

Not to worry Peach....NLT seems to be one of those male sailors that got out classed by the women sailors around them and is totally bitter about it now.

Same old tired comeback? cant you think of something else bodey? you use that on everyone that questions your service. Major Fail.

 

[GoneBezerk]

There is a reason why the military doesn't want males and females showering together for sexual reasons and for unity in the unit. You don't understand these things since you were busy cleaning latrines for a living.

Now, idiots like you want gay men to get to hang out with straight men where they can cause trouble in the shower, tent, etc. Some man that doesn't want a gay man to stare him down in the shower shouldn't be forced to have that happen or even sleep in the same room with him.

The military isn't a social experiment or a fairness organization. We don't let fat people in, people that are blind, people that can't walk, etc, etc, etc. If your situation causes a problem for the unit, then you need to be removed from the military.

Straight men and women don't hit on their bunkmates like a gay troop will in due time. So what happens to unity in the unit when Bob makes a move on Jim and is rejected??? In your fucked up world, Jim should be able to sleep and shower right next to Jill during their military career with no cause of concern for Jill.

Conservatives don't support anything that harms the US military, you are a losertarian......flake.

Based on your "wacking off" comment, I believe you are some 20-something to 30-something short stint ex-Marine that has gone off the deep end in life. At first I thought you were some grumpy 50-something Marine, but your response is typical of a jughead with limited intelligence and experience in life.

Ahhh, his left-wing views bubble to the top.

Gays in the military don't promote unity in a unit. It is not the same as straight men showering and living among each other in close quarters when gay men get to "mingle" among them, especially openly now.

I don't have a problem with gay people, but I don't want their lifestyle pushed on me and I wouldn't be ok with them showering and living with me in closed quarters.

There is no privacy in the military at bootcamp, on a ship, in a tent so putting some man that is attracted to other men among other men in that situation is disrepectful towards the straight men. Hell, why can't a straight man just shower and sleep in the women's dorm/tent? Come on jughead, your little brain can figure this out.

But really, we understand you were a jughead to stare at men in the shower, fess up. You and Jakey have some love thingy going on.....jugheads and dogs in love.

the only dishonorable thing about homosexuals serving in the military was the fact that it was deemed as a mental disorder.

Curious Sparky....if there were unisex showers...would you have a problem with women showering in the same showers as you?

Likely, you would be beating off til your palms were raw.

Oh yeah...and an FYI...I am a conservaitve through and through.....but recognize that Gay people are no different than I am...for I am not a conservative who is guided by religion.
I am guided by my ideology.

 

[bucs90]

I can't speak for the military because I wasn't in it. So the gay troops thing I can't speak on.

But, I can speak on former police experience, where it is ok to have an openly gay cop serving on a mostly male patrol team, and also on an all-male SWAT team. Both were problems. Guys thinking he was staring at them. I recall SWAT guys (just a couple of them) raising hell during a building clearing callout with a hostage taker. In the after-action meeting, one was ready to nearly fight, because in the tight stack entering rooms, he felt like the gay guy was pushing his pelvis up into him. Now, SWAT tactics are alot like military ones, the guys stack very tight in a line before entering a room, so they took up for the gay guy, because thats how they are trained to stack up. BUT, the fact is, it became an issue, and just before kicking that door open, there was 1 team member not thinking about his weapon and mission, but rather "Is that gay guy behind me trying to push up on me".

I didn't know that guy very well, but he was regarded within the team as a great officer with tactics, but a bit of a hot head and overreacted. He wasn't on the swat team very long, only a couple years.

I wasn't on the team at all, just friends with some guys and of course, the grapevine drama always spreads.

I personally think the gay guy was not the problem. But his presence created one.

 

[Vast LWC]

If you ask me, Military Service should be a requirement for CITIZENSHIP, forget political office.

 

[bodecea]

Where does THAT conclusion originate? "Lied about your sexuality"? "Served dishonorably"? My father never mentioned being ASKED.*

*Imagine IF our military leaders had INVESTIGATED the sexual orientation of all who volunteered after 12/07/41. We might now be speaking German...........

Hey stupid, they did ask when you enlisted, and if you lied like bodey did and got caught, you got an other than honorable discharge. Come back when you know what fuck you are talking about.

You MIGHT wanna read up on the subject:

During World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, the military defined homosexuality as a mental defect, and officially barred homosexuals from serving based on medical criteria. However, when personnel needs increased due to combat, the military developed a habit of relaxing its screening criteria. Many homosexual men and women serviced honorably during these conflicts. Unfortunately, these periods were short-lived. As soon as the need for combat personnel decreased, the military would involuntarily discharge them.


It wasn't until 1982 that the Department of Defense officially put in writing that “homosexuality was incompatible with military service,” when they published a DOD directive stating such. According to a 1992 report by the Government Accounting Office, nearly 17,000 men and women were discharged under this new directive during the 1980s.

The RAYGUN years of course...............................

A fascinating book on the subject is "Conduct Unbecoming".

 

[francoHFW]

I thought individual showers was the rule now, so that's BS. That's how Halliburton got to electrocute so many LOL.

 

[bodecea]

I can't speak for the military because I wasn't in it. So the gay troops thing I can't speak on.

But, I can speak on former police experience, where it is ok to have an openly gay cop serving on a mostly male patrol team, and also on an all-male SWAT team. Both were problems. Guys thinking he was staring at them. I recall SWAT guys (just a couple of them) raising hell during a building clearing callout with a hostage taker. In the after-action meeting, one was ready to nearly fight, because in the tight stack entering rooms, he felt like the gay guy was pushing his pelvis up into him. Now, SWAT tactics are alot like military ones, the guys stack very tight in a line before entering a room, so they took up for the gay guy, because thats how they are trained to stack up. BUT, the fact is, it became an issue, and just before kicking that door open, there was 1 team member not thinking about his weapon and mission, but rather "Is that gay guy behind me trying to push up on me".

I didn't know that guy very well, but he was regarded within the team as a great officer with tactics, but a bit of a hot head and overreacted. He wasn't on the swat team very long, only a couple years.

I wasn't on the team at all, just friends with some guys and of course, the grapevine drama always spreads.

I personally think the gay guy was not the problem. But his presence created one.

It always gives me a chuckle when straight men clutch their pearls as if they think they are so irresistable to gay men.

 

[bodecea]

Ahhh, his left-wing views bubble to the top.

Gays in the military don't promote unity in a unit. It is not the same as straight men showering and living among each other in close quarters when gay men get to "mingle" among them, especially openly now.

I don't have a problem with gay people, but I don't want their lifestyle pushed on me and I wouldn't be ok with them showering and living with me in closed quarters.

There is no privacy in the military at bootcamp, on a ship, in a tent so putting some man that is attracted to other men among other men in that situation is disrepectful towards the straight men. Hell, why can't a straight man just shower and sleep in the women's dorm/tent? Come on jughead, your little brain can figure this out.

But really, we understand you were a jughead to stare at men in the shower, fess up. You and Jakey have some love thingy going on.....jugheads and dogs in love.

Curious Sparky....if there were unisex showers...would you have a problem with women showering in the same showers as you?

Likely, you would be beating off til your palms were raw.

Oh yeah...and an FYI...I am a conservaitve through and through.....but recognize that Gay people are no different than I am...for I am not a conservative who is guided by religion.
I am guided by my ideology.

Jarhead, did you have to identify your sexuality when you enlisted? Did you truthfuly answer the question? did your raise your right hand swear

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

If you took this oath and you lied about your sexuality, then you desrved to get discharged until the law was changed December 22, 2010

I dont mean you personally.

Quote for us the questions about sexuality when one was being recruited, NLT. Exact quotes, mind you.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Exactly, but with the police you can go to your home and live away from them at night. In the military being deployed in a tent you can't escape living with someone. Back CONUS the younger enlisted troops live in dorms with each other.

Civilians ignore the FACT that military live with each other and it is expected that being asexual on the job is the norm. Many gay people don't turn off their gayness and now they can openly do it in the military where acting "out" like that causes unit problems.

If some woman is going around flirting with the men at work, then she gets into trouble. Now, if some gay man hits on straight men in the office....what is the fallout? Are the straight guys going to be forced into sensitivity training? How dare they overblow being hit on at work?

Under the old system gay people were allowed to serve as long as they didn't openly show it and hit on their co-workers. Now, they can do whatever they like and to hell with majority's feelings about the situation. Rumors about someone being gay are different than some gay man openly flaunting it at the gym, tent, office, etc.

Idiots like jughead pontificate about troops now needing to deal with this "new" rainbow military when they will never have to deal with it or they really wanted to be part of it as their true selves.

Most gay people are all about ME, not the TEAM....which is counter to the military's TEAM standards.

I can't speak for the military because I wasn't in it. So the gay troops thing I can't speak on.

But, I can speak on former police experience, where it is ok to have an openly gay cop serving on a mostly male patrol team, and also on an all-male SWAT team. Both were problems. Guys thinking he was staring at them. I recall SWAT guys (just a couple of them) raising hell during a building clearing callout with a hostage taker. In the after-action meeting, one was ready to nearly fight, because in the tight stack entering rooms, he felt like the gay guy was pushing his pelvis up into him. Now, SWAT tactics are alot like military ones, the guys stack very tight in a line before entering a room, so they took up for the gay guy, because thats how they are trained to stack up. BUT, the fact is, it became an issue, and just before kicking that door open, there was 1 team member not thinking about his weapon and mission, but rather "Is that gay guy behind me trying to push up on me".

I didn't know that guy very well, but he was regarded within the team as a great officer with tactics, but a bit of a hot head and overreacted. He wasn't on the swat team very long, only a couple years.

I wasn't on the team at all, just friends with some guys and of course, the grapevine drama always spreads.

I personally think the gay guy was not the problem. But his presence created one.

 

[GoneBezerk]

You freaks think you're special, you're not.

We don't like you staring at us, but you take that as we are jealous of you.

I've been hit on by gay men back in college, I thought it was funny but I wouldn't find it funny if it happened in the military.

I can't speak for the military because I wasn't in it. So the gay troops thing I can't speak on.

But, I can speak on former police experience, where it is ok to have an openly gay cop serving on a mostly male patrol team, and also on an all-male SWAT team. Both were problems. Guys thinking he was staring at them. I recall SWAT guys (just a couple of them) raising hell during a building clearing callout with a hostage taker. In the after-action meeting, one was ready to nearly fight, because in the tight stack entering rooms, he felt like the gay guy was pushing his pelvis up into him. Now, SWAT tactics are alot like military ones, the guys stack very tight in a line before entering a room, so they took up for the gay guy, because thats how they are trained to stack up. BUT, the fact is, it became an issue, and just before kicking that door open, there was 1 team member not thinking about his weapon and mission, but rather "Is that gay guy behind me trying to push up on me".

I didn't know that guy very well, but he was regarded within the team as a great officer with tactics, but a bit of a hot head and overreacted. He wasn't on the swat team very long, only a couple years.

I wasn't on the team at all, just friends with some guys and of course, the grapevine drama always spreads.

I personally think the gay guy was not the problem. But his presence created one.

It always gives me a chuckle when straight men clutch their pearls as if they think they are so irresistable to gay men.

 

[francoHFW]

I guess I'll rely on no hanky panky rules and soldiers' professionalism.

 

[GoneBezerk]

You just exposed yourself, liar.

I signed paperwork stating I was not a homosexual, but maybe that is because I had a TS clearance.

You see if you were a homo with a security clearance then you could be blackmailed by someone if exposed.

Curious Sparky....if there were unisex showers...would you have a problem with women showering in the same showers as you?

Likely, you would be beating off til your palms were raw.

Oh yeah...and an FYI...I am a conservaitve through and through.....but recognize that Gay people are no different than I am...for I am not a conservative who is guided by religion.
I am guided by my ideology.

Jarhead, did you have to identify your sexuality when you enlisted? Did you truthfuly answer the question? did your raise your right hand swear

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

If you took this oath and you lied about your sexuality, then you desrved to get discharged until the law was changed December 22, 2010

I dont mean you personally.

Quote for us the questions about sexuality when one was being recruited, NLT. Exact quotes, mind you.

 

[Peach]

Hey stupid, they did ask when you enlisted, and if you lied like bodey did and got caught, you got an other than honorable discharge. Come back when you know what fuck you are talking about.

You MIGHT wanna read up on the subject:

During World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, the military defined homosexuality as a mental defect, and officially barred homosexuals from serving based on medical criteria. However, when personnel needs increased due to combat, the military developed a habit of relaxing its screening criteria. Many homosexual men and women serviced honorably during these conflicts. Unfortunately, these periods were short-lived. As soon as the need for combat personnel decreased, the military would involuntarily discharge them.


It wasn't until 1982 that the Department of Defense officially put in writing that “homosexuality was incompatible with military service,” when they published a DOD directive stating such. According to a 1992 report by the Government Accounting Office, nearly 17,000 men and women were discharged under this new directive during the 1980s.

The RAYGUN years of course...............................

A fascinating book on the subject is "Conduct Unbecoming".

Thanks; I know gay Americans that served BEFORE 2010, and were never questioned, or so they related to me. That INCLUDES a gay relative.

 

[g5000]

Quote for us the questions about sexuality when one was being recruited, NLT. Exact quotes, mind you.

I joined up before DADT. I was specificially asked, more than once, if I had ever had a homosexual sexual experience, on paper, and had to sign it. And like Bezerk, I was also asked again when I got a security clearance.

 

[NLT]

Curious Sparky....if there were unisex showers...would you have a problem with women showering in the same showers as you?

Likely, you would be beating off til your palms were raw.

Oh yeah...and an FYI...I am a conservaitve through and through.....but recognize that Gay people are no different than I am...for I am not a conservative who is guided by religion.
I am guided by my ideology.

Jarhead, did you have to identify your sexuality when you enlisted? Did you truthfuly answer the question? did your raise your right hand swear

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

If you took this oath and you lied about your sexuality, then you desrved to get discharged until the law was changed December 22, 2010

I dont mean you personally.

Quote for us the questions about sexuality when one was being recruited, NLT. Exact quotes, mind you.

You tell me, you dont remeber your Psych screening and evaluation? Hmm you sure you served? Everyone had one ...who actually served.

 

[Vast LWC]

Quote for us the questions about sexuality when one was being recruited, NLT. Exact quotes, mind you.

I joined up before DADT. I was specificially asked, more than once, if I had ever had a homosexual sexual experience, on paper, and had to sign it. And like Bezerk, I was also asked again when I got a security clearance.

I joined before DADT too.

I honestly don't remember if they asked or not. That was 23 years ago.