Minimum wage rate and labors’ market prices.

[Toddsterpatriot]

So they made up a definition.....good for them.
Why does their definition matter?

ToddsterPatriot, it matters because the CBO’s reports are based upon studies and projections reflecting minimum wage rate affects rates within the bracket of low wage rates, that range from critical to substantial portions of those rates, and 32% of all USA’s employee’s rates are within that low wage rate bracket. Respectfully, Supposn

it matters because the CBO’s reports are based upon studies and projections

You're upset because you don't like how the CBO describes an arbitrary income level?

reflecting minimum wage rate affects rates within the bracket of low wage rates, that range from critical to substantial portions of those rates

Why should I take your "critical to substantial" claim seriously?

 

[danielpalos]

So they made up a definition.....good for them.
Why does their definition matter?

ToddsterPatriot, it matters because the CBO’s reports are based upon studies and projections reflecting minimum wage rate affects rates within the bracket of low wage rates, that range from critical to substantial portions of those rates, and 32% of all USA’s employee’s rates are within that low wage rate bracket. Respectfully, Supposn

it matters because the CBO’s reports are based upon studies and projections

You're upset because you don't like how the CBO describes an arbitrary income level?

reflecting minimum wage rate affects rates within the bracket of low wage rates, that range from critical to substantial portions of those rates

Why should I take your "critical to substantial" claim seriously?

It is only arbitrary to the extent Congress can fix Standards for the Union. Once that happens, the CBO can come up with projections and reports based on those Standards.

 

[Supposn]

You're upset because you don't like how the CBO describes an arbitrary income level?
Why should I take your "critical to substantial" claim seriously?

ToddsterPatriot, no, I’m pleased that you questioned my contending the Congressional Budget office, (CBO) considers 2025 $19 or less per hour (adjusted to 2018 valued dollars) to be low- wage bracket of wage rates, if the minimum wage is then $15 per hour.

Referring back to the CBO reports, I found the actual quote. Refer to page 10 of https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf , “…. Low-wage workers are people who are projected, under current law, to be paid less than $19 per hour in 2025. “
Current law is $7.25 per hour. Unless otherwise stated, all mentions of finite dollar amounts within CBO’s federal minimum wage reports are referring to 2018 U.S. valued dollars.

ToddsterPatriot I’m pleased because the CBO’s definition of the low-rate bracket of wage rates is consistent with my definition of a low wage rate. If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

This is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're upset because you don't like how the CBO describes an arbitrary income level?
Why should I take your "critical to substantial" claim seriously?

ToddsterPatriot, no, I’m pleased that you questioned my contending the Congressional Budget office, (CBO) considers 2025 $19 or less per hour (adjusted to 2018 valued dollars) to be low- wage bracket of wage rates, if the minimum wage is then $15 per hour.

Referring back to the CBO reports, I found the actual quote. Refer to page 10 of https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf , “…. Low-wage workers are people who are projected, under current law, to be paid less than $19 per hour in 2025. “
Current law is $7.25 per hour. Unless otherwise stated, all mentions of finite dollar amounts within CBO’s federal minimum wage reports are referring to 2018 U.S. valued dollars.

ToddsterPatriot I’m pleased because the CBO’s definition of the low-rate bracket of wage rates is consistent with my definition of a low wage rate. If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

This is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates. Respectfully, Supposn

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

Can you prove this claim?

 

[Supposn]

... Where did they, [i.e. the U.S. Congressional Budget Office, aka CBO] project the scenario where the minimum wage laws are repealed?

ToddsterPatriot, the Congressional Budget Office, (CBO) has never reported upon the consequences of eliminating then federal minimum wage rate. No congressional committee or their chairperson has ever requested the CBO spend their budget and resources to report upon such a foolish proposal.

Isn’t you who’s a proponent of eliminating minimum wage rate laws? Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Isn’t you who’s a proponent of eliminating minimum wage rate laws?

Yes, the Federal minimum wage law is harmful. Useless at best. Kill it.

 

[dblack]

Isn’t you who’s a proponent of eliminating minimum wage rate laws?

Yes, the Federal minimum wage law is harmful. Useless at best. Kill it.

But wage controls are an important inroad to socialism.

 

[Supposn]

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

Can you prove this claim?

ToddsterPatriot, no I cannot.
However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates; it’s the reason why every nation that can effectively enforce their laws, (regardless of those nations economic systems), all have some provisions for something that serves the purpose of USA’s minimum wage rate laws.

In some of those nations it’s entirely a government matter, in other nations it’s a matter of a quasi-government organization that’s completely supported by their governments’ laws.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

Can you prove this claim?

ToddsterPatriot, no I cannot.
However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates; it’s the reason why every nation that can effectively enforce their laws, (regardless of those nations economic systems), all have some provisions for something that serves the purpose of USA’s minimum wage rate laws.

In some of those nations it’s entirely a government matter, in other nations it’s a matter of a quasi-government organization that’s completely supported by their governments’ laws.
Respectfully, Supposn

no I cannot.

Thanks for finally admitting the truth. It's been a long road.
Feels like years......

However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates;

Minimal influence. As shown by the fact that over 98% of hourly workers
already make more than the minimum wage.

 

[Supposn]

But wage controls are an important inroad to socialism.

DBlack, government minimum wage rate laws do not determine wage rate differentials and they are not government control of wages. The federal minimum wage rate’s not socialism and its poverty that serves as inroads to socialism. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[danielpalos]

You're upset because you don't like how the CBO describes an arbitrary income level?
Why should I take your "critical to substantial" claim seriously?

ToddsterPatriot, no, I’m pleased that you questioned my contending the Congressional Budget office, (CBO) considers 2025 $19 or less per hour (adjusted to 2018 valued dollars) to be low- wage bracket of wage rates, if the minimum wage is then $15 per hour.

Referring back to the CBO reports, I found the actual quote. Refer to page 10 of https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf , “…. Low-wage workers are people who are projected, under current law, to be paid less than $19 per hour in 2025. “
Current law is $7.25 per hour. Unless otherwise stated, all mentions of finite dollar amounts within CBO’s federal minimum wage reports are referring to 2018 U.S. valued dollars.

ToddsterPatriot I’m pleased because the CBO’s definition of the low-rate bracket of wage rates is consistent with my definition of a low wage rate. If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

This is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates. Respectfully, Supposn

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.

Can you prove this claim?

Capitalists prefer a "race to the bottom" for their bottom line. It is a capitalist, self-evident truth and motivation in every short run equilibrium for them.

 

[danielpalos]

Isn’t you who’s a proponent of eliminating minimum wage rate laws?

Yes, the Federal minimum wage law is harmful. Useless at best. Kill it.

Raising the minimum wage to fifteen dollars or more means less expensive Government via the Cost of social services. The Rich can afford it and still make a Profit. We have a Commerce clause and a central bank; why do right wingers prefer their socialism on a national basis to, no theoretical upward limit to markets?

 

[danielpalos]

Isn’t you who’s a proponent of eliminating minimum wage rate laws?

Yes, the Federal minimum wage law is harmful. Useless at best. Kill it.

But wage controls are an important inroad to socialism.

Our welfare clause is General not common or limited. Government is socialism anyway. Promoting the general welfare is what Congress should be doing at every opportunity not the general warfare nor the common offense.

 

[Supposn]

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.
Can you prove this claim?

ToddsterPatriot, no I cannot.
However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates; it’s the reason why every nation that can effectively enforce their laws, (regardless of those nations economic systems), all have some provisions for something that serves the purpose of USA’s minimum wage rate laws.

In some of those nations it’s entirely a government matter, in other nations it’s a matter of a quasi-government organization that’s completely supported by their governments’ laws.
Respectfully, Supposn

Thanks for finally admitting the truth. It's been a long road.
Feels like years......

However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates;

Minimal influence. As shown by the fact that over 98% of hourly workers already make more than the minimum wage.

Excerpted from Definition of SOPHISTRY :
“Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound, or reasoning that is used to deceive”.

ToddsterPatriot, arguing the percentage of employees earn precisely or near the federal minimum wage rate of $7.25 per hour is germane to discussion of law’s justification or lack of justification is not a logical or reasonable point. But it’s not sophistry which depends upon deception. The argument’s too illogical and/or unreasonable to convince any but the least reasonably logical people. Shame on you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.
Can you prove this claim?

ToddsterPatriot, no I cannot.
However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates; it’s the reason why every nation that can effectively enforce their laws, (regardless of those nations economic systems), all have some provisions for something that serves the purpose of USA’s minimum wage rate laws.

In some of those nations it’s entirely a government matter, in other nations it’s a matter of a quasi-government organization that’s completely supported by their governments’ laws.
Respectfully, Supposn

Thanks for finally admitting the truth. It's been a long road.
Feels like years......

However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates;

Minimal influence. As shown by the fact that over 98% of hourly workers already make more than the minimum wage.

Excerpted from Definition of SOPHISTRY :
“Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound, or reasoning that is used to deceive”.

ToddsterPatriot, arguing the percentage of employees earn precisely or near the federal minimum wage rate of $7.25 per hour is germane to discussion of law’s justification or lack of justification is not a logical or reasonable point. But it’s not sophistry which depends upon deception. The argument’s too illogical and/or unreasonable to convince any but the least reasonably logical people. Shame on you.

You have claimed that if the $7.25 FMW was eliminated, it would be a race to the bottom.
Employers would rush to cut wages.

Is that a fair description of your position?

 

[Supposn]

You have claimed that if the $7.25 FMW was eliminated, it would be a race to the bottom.
Employers would rush to cut wages. Is that a fair description of your position?

ToddsterPatiot, I’m among those contending permitting the decline of the minimum wage rate’s purchasing power (rather than retaining it), enables more lesser able people to be employed but the increase of jobs is always exceeded by the increase of less capable people available to do those jobs. Although lesser minimum rate’s purchasing power enables the creation of more low wage rate jobs, it does not reduce, but tends to increase unemployment rates for lesser able workers, because there are more applicants in the "labor pool".

Due to the practice of wage differentials being driven from bottom-up, reducing the purchasing power of the minimum wage rate effects all rates within the bracket of low-wage rates.
Minimum rates influence upon wage differentials spreads to the next incrementally higher bracket of wage rates during incidences of poorer labor markets and in extremely poor markets, (e.g. during a depression) it effectively drives down even higher rates than other times.

Eliminating the minimum wage rate laws is the most extreme case of reducing its purchasing power. To the extent of its purchasing power, it more than otherwise reduces incidences and extents of poverty among the working-poor. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You have claimed that if the $7.25 FMW was eliminated, it would be a race to the bottom.
Employers would rush to cut wages. Is that a fair description of your position?

ToddsterPatiot, I’m among those contending permitting the decline of the minimum wage rate’s purchasing power (rather than retaining it), enables more lesser able people to be employed but the increase of jobs is always exceeded by the increase of less capable people available to do those jobs. Although lesser minimum rate’s purchasing power enables the creation of more low wage rate jobs, it does not reduce, but tends to increase unemployment rates for lesser able workers, because there are more applicants in the "labor pool".

Due to the practice of wage differentials being driven from bottom-up, reducing the purchasing power of the minimum wage rate effects all rates within the bracket of low-wage rates.
Minimum rates influence upon wage differentials spreads to the next incrementally higher bracket of wage rates during incidences of poorer labor markets and in extremely poor markets, (e.g. during a depression) it effectively drives down even higher rates than other times.

Eliminating the minimum wage rate laws is the most extreme case of reducing its purchasing power. To the extent of its purchasing power, it more than otherwise reduces incidences and extents of poverty among the working-poor. Respectfully, Supposn

Can you say that again.....in English?

If the minimum wage is eliminated, will employers cut low end wages or not?

 

[danielpalos]

If the minimum wage laws were eliminated, low wage jobs’ rates would (proportionally) be detrimentally affected to extents ranging from critical to substantial.
Can you prove this claim?

ToddsterPatriot, no I cannot.
However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates; it’s the reason why every nation that can effectively enforce their laws, (regardless of those nations economic systems), all have some provisions for something that serves the purpose of USA’s minimum wage rate laws.

In some of those nations it’s entirely a government matter, in other nations it’s a matter of a quasi-government organization that’s completely supported by their governments’ laws.
Respectfully, Supposn

Thanks for finally admitting the truth. It's been a long road.
Feels like years......

However, this is implied by the CBO reports indications of minimum wage rate’s influence upon low wage rates;

Minimal influence. As shown by the fact that over 98% of hourly workers already make more than the minimum wage.

Excerpted from Definition of SOPHISTRY :
“Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound, or reasoning that is used to deceive”.

ToddsterPatriot, arguing the percentage of employees earn precisely or near the federal minimum wage rate of $7.25 per hour is germane to discussion of law’s justification or lack of justification is not a logical or reasonable point. But it’s not sophistry which depends upon deception. The argument’s too illogical and/or unreasonable to convince any but the least reasonably logical people. Shame on you.

You have claimed that if the $7.25 FMW was eliminated, it would be a race to the bottom.
Employers would rush to cut wages.

Is that a fair description of your position?

Capitalists would, race to the bottom. Manufacturing allegedly went to China just for that reason.

Wages for Labor as the least wealthy in our republic have also not kept up with inflation. Are you trying to claim wages would up and not down if there were no minimum wage laws?

 

[danielpalos]

You have claimed that if the $7.25 FMW was eliminated, it would be a race to the bottom.
Employers would rush to cut wages. Is that a fair description of your position?

ToddsterPatiot, I’m among those contending permitting the decline of the minimum wage rate’s purchasing power (rather than retaining it), enables more lesser able people to be employed but the increase of jobs is always exceeded by the increase of less capable people available to do those jobs. Although lesser minimum rate’s purchasing power enables the creation of more low wage rate jobs, it does not reduce, but tends to increase unemployment rates for lesser able workers, because there are more applicants in the "labor pool".

Due to the practice of wage differentials being driven from bottom-up, reducing the purchasing power of the minimum wage rate effects all rates within the bracket of low-wage rates.
Minimum rates influence upon wage differentials spreads to the next incrementally higher bracket of wage rates during incidences of poorer labor markets and in extremely poor markets, (e.g. during a depression) it effectively drives down even higher rates than other times.

Eliminating the minimum wage rate laws is the most extreme case of reducing its purchasing power. To the extent of its purchasing power, it more than otherwise reduces incidences and extents of poverty among the working-poor. Respectfully, Supposn

Can you say that again.....in English?

If the minimum wage is eliminated, will employers cut low end wages or not?

Sure; I believe we can assume wages would go down whenever employers could get away with it through market based arbitrage.

It is one reason why I advocate for equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States. We would not need minimum wage laws in that case and still have an institutional upward pressure on wages. The alternative would be what we have now and simply raising the minimum wage like is happening via current legislation. Employers cutting jobs and hours for their bottom line should not matter in that case since the unemployed would have recourse to unemployment compensation in their at-will employment States simply for being unemployed.

What that could mean in practice is that those receiving the least benefit from low wage jobs would quit anyway and potentially go to school or upgrade their skill sets in a market friendly manner to eventually be able to command the wage they want in the market for labor eventually.

 

[Supposn]

Can you say that again.....in English?

If the minimum wage is eliminated, will employers cut low end wages or not?

ToddsterPatriot, yes, certainly employers will reduce the purchasing power of low wage rates. The reductions will likely occur incrementally over time.

Regardless of whatever is a current purchasing power of the U.S. dollar at any time in the future, if there's no minimum wage rate law or some other legally supported government legally supported provision, (i.e. quasi government provision) to serve the purpose of minimum wage rate laws wage rate laws, low wage rates purchasing powers will certainly be less than otherwise; (otherwise being if there's a minimum wage rate law of sufficient purchasing power).
Respectfully, Supposn