Minimum wage rate and labors’ market prices.

[francoHFW]

Only in the short run, from a micro-economics perspective.

Increasing low-skilled unemployment AND reducing income tax revenue is only in the short run?

Please......continue.

lol. Higher paid Labor spends more of that money sooner rather than later. The fast food joint could see higher sales simply because people who are working are making more money to spend. The multiplier effect takes care of the rest.

Higher paid Labor spends more of that money sooner rather than later.

And the newly unemployed labor spends less money, forever.

The fast food joint could see higher sales simply because people who are working are making more money to spend.

I agree, that's a money losing outcome.

Now, about your moronic claim about income tax revenue..........

Those working pay several times more in federal income tax. Unemployment compensation helps minimize the impact from Labor no longer working, and a multiplier effect means a rising tide lifts all boats and more employers will need to keep up with more demand.

The federal income tax is the only progressive tax we have and is about equal in proceeds with payroll tax. It is a GOP obsession in its propaganda, but if you count all taxes everyone in the country is paying about 27% if they make any money, and even the poorest are paying about 20% and more if you include the ridiculous fees we have to pay these days period no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot GOP rich from paying their fair share, brainwashed functional moron.


So why are we the only modern country without a living wage healthcare daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training, and ID card to end illegal immigration like every other modern country you already has, super duper? People did not just magically get stupid and lazy, it's all about ridiculously expensive college and training and crappy jobs. Thanks GOP!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Those working pay several times more in federal income tax.

Which is more than offset by the reduction in corporate income tax paid.
Because 21% is still larger than 10% and still larger than 12%.
Even in your mom's basement.

and a multiplier effect means a rising tide lifts all boats

Only when you ignore the multiplier effect of reduced corporate spending.

Just for fun, if a McDonald's raises an employee wage by $1000 and the employee
increases their purchase of McDonald's by $1000, is the net income of McDonald's
higher, the same or lower?

Give it your best calculation.

Not sure why you believe what you do. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates several times more in federal income tax than is generated by someone earning the 7.25 hourly wage rate. Thus, even if the employer cuts a few employees or hours the federal government will still receive as much or than they do now with the lower wage rate even with a few more people working. How many people can an employee cut and still keep up with demand; people now making fifteen an hour would have a higher propensity to consume at that wage rate than at the lower wage rate.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates several times more in federal income tax than is generated by someone earning the 7.25 hourly wage rate.

I'll go slowly, because you obviously don't understand math.

For every extra dollar that a minimum wage workers gets, they pay 10%-12% in additional federal income tax.

For every extra dollar that an employer pays, they save 21% federal corporate income tax.

Do you understand that the 21% reduction is larger than the 10%-12% increase?


Just for fun, if a McDonald's raises an employee wage by $1000 and the employee
increases their purchase of McDonald's by $1000, is the net income of McDonald's
higher, the same or lower?

Give it your best calculation.

I would agree with you if that was how it actually worked. A 7.25 hourly rate generates around 193 dollars in federal income tax revenue. A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage generates around 1582 dollars in federal income tax revenue, more than nine times more from each minimum wage worker working at the 15 dollar an hour rate. The employer could cut nine employees and the federal government would still get the same federal income tax revenue.

I would agree with you if that was how it actually worked.

21% is actually larger than 10% and also larger than 12%. For realzz dog!

A 7.25 hourly rate

Based on 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks a year......wages to the worker of $15,080

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage

Based on 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks a year......wages to the worker of $31,200.
$16,120 more at $15.

193 dollars in federal income tax revenue.
A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage generates around 1582

Assuming those numbers are correct, $1,389 more federal income tax revenue at $15.

Now, the $16,120 increased expense to the employer, with a 21% corporate rate
gives them a tax reduction of $3385.20

No matter how much weed you're smoking, $3385.20 is still larger than $1389

More than nine times the amount from each minimum wage worker at the higher rate.

And, the cost of labor can be expensed by the employer regardless.

More than nine times the amount from each minimum wage worker at the higher rate.

Yup, $1389 more tax.

And, the cost of labor can be expensed by the employer regardless.

Yup, $3385.20 less tax.

DURR.

The minimum wage doubled for that little bit more tax which funds Government.

1389 per minimum wage employee. Where are you getting your twenty-one percent reduction? And, why are you complaining if it is allegedly cheaper based on your tax estimates to pay the higher wage?

The minimum wage doubled for that little bit more tax which funds Government.

Doubling the minimum wage would reduce tax revenues.

1389 per minimum wage employee. Where are you getting your twenty-one percent reduction?

From....the cost of labor can be expensed by the employer regardless.

And, why are you complaining if it is allegedly cheaper based on your tax estimates to pay the higher wage?

Lower tax revenues.....not cheaper.

 

[Supposn]

Poorer economic times is when a minimum wage rate is most needed

Why?

ToddsterPatriot, if you continue posting responses in a manner to be expected from of an ignorant fool, it will reduce my regard for your intelligence. Perhaps you’re not pretending, and you’re are an ignorant fool?

Since the industrial revelation has been evolving, the common experience of modern nations when they encountered drastic economic depressions, was the lowest wages lunging down to drastically poor purchasing powers and upon those rates that are somewhat higher. In those depressed times of greater unemployment, and lesser creation of jobs, the “Bedford Falls” deteriorate to become “Potterville”, the “Henry Potters” negotiating advantages over employees increase by multiple factors, and if wage earners lives weren’t before “wonderful”, their future existences became even lesser secure.

To the extent of their purchasing powers and their enforcement, minimum wage rates reduce the incidences and extent of poverty among the working-por and their dependents. If the minimum rate were eliminated, USA’s would suffer drastically increased incidences and extents of poverty.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Poorer economic times is when a minimum wage rate is most needed

Why?

ToddsterPatriot, if you continue posting responses in a manner to be expected from of an ignorant fool, it will reduce my regard for your intelligence. Perhaps you’re not pretending, and you’re are an ignorant fool?

Since the industrial revelation has been evolving, the common experience of modern nations when they encountered drastic economic depressions, was the lowest wages lunging down to drastically poor purchasing powers and upon those rates that are somewhat higher. In those depressed times of greater unemployment, and lesser creation of jobs, the “Bedford Falls” deteriorate to become “Potterville”, the “Henry Potters” negotiating advantages over employees increase by multiple factors, and if wage earners lives weren’t before “wonderful”, their future existences became even lesser secure.

To the extent of their purchasing powers and their enforcement, minimum wage rates reduce the incidences and extent of poverty among the working-por and their dependents. If the minimum rate were eliminated, USA’s would suffer drastically increased incidences and extents of poverty.

if you continue posting responses in a manner to be expected from of an ignorant fool,

I'm trying to post down to your level.

You're running away intead of answering the question?

That's a surprise.

the “Henry Potters” negotiating advantages over employees increase by multiple factors

Better they pay higher wages and go out of business.

If the minimum rate were eliminated, USA’s would suffer drastically increased incidences and extents of poverty.

Prove it....unless you're an ignorant fool.

 

[Toro]

Trump supporters here in Florida voted to increase the minimum wage to $15

Trump supporters are NOT conservatives.

At least not economic conservatives.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Trump supporters here in Florida voted to increase the minimum wage to $15

All of them?

 

[Supposn]

... If the minimum rate were eliminated, USA’s would suffer drastically increased incidences and extents of poverty.


Prove it.... unless you're an ignorant fool.

ToddsterPatriot, I have logically concluded almost all, if not all governments among the world’s nations' greater economies, (including the United states federal government, and regardless of any differences between their economic systems, have correctly decided a minimum wage rate, or some similar provisions similar to it is to the best interests of their nations' economies. Although this has not been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, the credence of such a group is of some substance. There is a greater probability that the preponderance of truth lies within the governments of all, or almost all of the world’s leading economies rather than within your determinations. Respectfully, Supposn

ToddsterPatriot, you’ve never denied the laws of almost all, if not all governments among the world’s nations' greater economies, (regardless of the character of their nation’s economies), overwhelmingly support the concept of a minimum wage rate, or some similar provisions similar to it; you also have never acknowledged that is in fact the truth. ...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

... If the minimum rate were eliminated, USA’s would suffer drastically increased incidences and extents of poverty.


Prove it.... unless you're an ignorant fool.

ToddsterPatriot, I have logically concluded almost all, if not all governments among the world’s nations' greater economies, (including the United states federal government, and regardless of any differences between their economic systems, have correctly decided a minimum wage rate, or some similar provisions similar to it is to the best interests of their nations' economies. Although this has not been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, the credence of such a group is of some substance. There is a greater probability that the preponderance of truth lies within the governments of all, or almost all of the world’s leading economies rather than within your determinations. Respectfully, Supposn

ToddsterPatriot, you’ve never denied the laws of almost all, if not all governments among the world’s nations' greater economies, (regardless of the character of their nation’s economies), overwhelmingly support the concept of a minimum wage rate, or some similar provisions similar to it; you also have never acknowledged that is in fact the truth. ...

I have logically concluded almost all, if not all governments among the world’s nations' greater economies.....have correctly decided a minimum wage rate.....

Every law enacted in the largest economies is in the best interest of their economies?

Is that your proof? Seriously?

That's truly hilarious!!!

 

[Supposn]

Every law enacted in the largest economies is in the best interest of their economies?
Is that your proof? Seriously? ...

ToddsterPatriot, my statement was specifically limited to governments’ definite and enforced minimum wage rates or provisions similar to them, that serve the same purposes.
You are attempting to attribute another of your more foolish opinions to me. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

my statement was specifically limited to governments’ definite and enforced minimum wage rates or provisions similar to them

And my reply illustrated the idiocy of your claim.

 

[danielpalos]

Only in the short run, from a micro-economics perspective.

Increasing low-skilled unemployment AND reducing income tax revenue is only in the short run?

Please......continue.

lol. Higher paid Labor spends more of that money sooner rather than later. The fast food joint could see higher sales simply because people who are working are making more money to spend. The multiplier effect takes care of the rest.

Higher paid Labor spends more of that money sooner rather than later.

And the newly unemployed labor spends less money, forever.

The fast food joint could see higher sales simply because people who are working are making more money to spend.

I agree, that's a money losing outcome.

Now, about your moronic claim about income tax revenue..........

Those working pay several times more in federal income tax. Unemployment compensation helps minimize the impact from Labor no longer working, and a multiplier effect means a rising tide lifts all boats and more employers will need to keep up with more demand.

The federal income tax is the only progressive tax we have and is about equal in proceeds with payroll tax. It is a GOP obsession in its propaganda, but if you count all taxes everyone in the country is paying about 27% if they make any money, and even the poorest are paying about 20% and more if you include the ridiculous fees we have to pay these days period no sacrifice is too great to save the greedy idiot GOP rich from paying their fair share, brainwashed functional moron.


So why are we the only modern country without a living wage healthcare daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training, and ID card to end illegal immigration like every other modern country you already has, super duper? People did not just magically get stupid and lazy, it's all about ridiculously expensive college and training and crappy jobs. Thanks GOP!

Right wingers prefer their bigotry and to sling ad hominems instead of coming up with any valid arguments for rebuttal. In right wing fantasy, they are Always Right simply because they are on the right wing.

 

[danielpalos]

Those working pay several times more in federal income tax.

Which is more than offset by the reduction in corporate income tax paid.
Because 21% is still larger than 10% and still larger than 12%.
Even in your mom's basement.

and a multiplier effect means a rising tide lifts all boats

Only when you ignore the multiplier effect of reduced corporate spending.

Just for fun, if a McDonald's raises an employee wage by $1000 and the employee
increases their purchase of McDonald's by $1000, is the net income of McDonald's
higher, the same or lower?

Give it your best calculation.

Not sure why you believe what you do. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates several times more in federal income tax than is generated by someone earning the 7.25 hourly wage rate. Thus, even if the employer cuts a few employees or hours the federal government will still receive as much or than they do now with the lower wage rate even with a few more people working. How many people can an employee cut and still keep up with demand; people now making fifteen an hour would have a higher propensity to consume at that wage rate than at the lower wage rate.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates several times more in federal income tax than is generated by someone earning the 7.25 hourly wage rate.

I'll go slowly, because you obviously don't understand math.

For every extra dollar that a minimum wage workers gets, they pay 10%-12% in additional federal income tax.

For every extra dollar that an employer pays, they save 21% federal corporate income tax.

Do you understand that the 21% reduction is larger than the 10%-12% increase?


Just for fun, if a McDonald's raises an employee wage by $1000 and the employee
increases their purchase of McDonald's by $1000, is the net income of McDonald's
higher, the same or lower?

Give it your best calculation.

I would agree with you if that was how it actually worked. A 7.25 hourly rate generates around 193 dollars in federal income tax revenue. A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage generates around 1582 dollars in federal income tax revenue, more than nine times more from each minimum wage worker working at the 15 dollar an hour rate. The employer could cut nine employees and the federal government would still get the same federal income tax revenue.

I would agree with you if that was how it actually worked.

21% is actually larger than 10% and also larger than 12%. For realzz dog!

A 7.25 hourly rate

Based on 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks a year......wages to the worker of $15,080

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage

Based on 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks a year......wages to the worker of $31,200.
$16,120 more at $15.

193 dollars in federal income tax revenue.
A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage generates around 1582

Assuming those numbers are correct, $1,389 more federal income tax revenue at $15.

Now, the $16,120 increased expense to the employer, with a 21% corporate rate
gives them a tax reduction of $3385.20

No matter how much weed you're smoking, $3385.20 is still larger than $1389

More than nine times the amount from each minimum wage worker at the higher rate.

And, the cost of labor can be expensed by the employer regardless.

More than nine times the amount from each minimum wage worker at the higher rate.

Yup, $1389 more tax.

And, the cost of labor can be expensed by the employer regardless.

Yup, $3385.20 less tax.

DURR.

The minimum wage doubled for that little bit more tax which funds Government.

1389 per minimum wage employee. Where are you getting your twenty-one percent reduction? And, why are you complaining if it is allegedly cheaper based on your tax estimates to pay the higher wage?

The minimum wage doubled for that little bit more tax which funds Government.

Doubling the minimum wage would reduce tax revenues.

1389 per minimum wage employee. Where are you getting your twenty-one percent reduction?

From....the cost of labor can be expensed by the employer regardless.

And, why are you complaining if it is allegedly cheaper based on your tax estimates to pay the higher wage?

Lower tax revenues.....not cheaper.

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

You are claiming lower tax revenues from Capitalists, but not from the Poor paying their share of the tax burden.

 

[danielpalos]

my statement was specifically limited to governments’ definite and enforced minimum wage rates or provisions similar to them

And my reply illustrated the idiocy of your claim.

We delegate the authority to our elected representatives to promote and provide for the general welfare not the general badfare.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

While reducing total income taxes collected.

 

[danielpalos]

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

While reducing total income taxes collected.

Not from the Poor. Can you please explain your logic for the reduction in total taxes collected.

 

[Supposn]

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

While reducing total income taxes collected.

DanielPalos, I would suppose any reduction of taxable incomes due to increasing minimum wage rate’s purchasing power, would be more than offset by the net economic consequences of minimum rate’s accomplishing its purpose. [To the extent of minimum rate’s purchasing power and enforcement, it reduces incidences and extents of poverty among the working-poor and their dependents].

To many at the “right” of our nation’s political spectrum argue that increased enterprises’ profits, (regardless of net economic consequences to our nation), is always of net benefit to the finances’ of individuals, our nation’s economy, and our social wellbeing).
Many other of us throughout our nation’s political spectrum contend “we all do better when we all do better”. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

While reducing total income taxes collected.

Not from the Poor. Can you please explain your logic for the reduction in total taxes collected.

Not from the Poor.

WTF does that matter when the total collected is smaller?

Can you please explain your logic for the reduction in total taxes collected.

Damn you're dim.

If the worker (taxed at 10%-12%) gets more money from the employer (taxed at 21%)
the tax loss from the higher write-off is larger than the tax increase from the higher wage.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I would suppose any reduction of taxable incomes due to increasing minimum wage rate’s purchasing power, would be more than offset by the net economic consequences of minimum rate’s accomplishing its purpose.

The CBO disagrees.

 

[danielpalos]

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

While reducing total income taxes collected.

DanielPalos, I would suppose any reduction of taxable incomes due to increasing minimum wage rate’s purchasing power, would be more than offset by the net economic consequences of minimum rate’s accomplishing its purpose. [To the extent of minimum rate’s purchasing power and enforcement, it reduces incidences and extents of poverty among the working-poor and their dependents].

To many at the “right” of our nation’s political spectrum argue that increased enterprises’ profits, (regardless of net economic consequences to our nation), is always of net benefit to the finances’ of individuals, our nation’s economy, and our social wellbeing).
Many other of us throughout our nation’s political spectrum contend “we all do better when we all do better”. Respectfully, Supposn

You may have missed the point I am trying to make with the right wing. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates around nine times more in federal income tax revenue than the current minimum wage does now. There is no "taxable reduction" for the Poor; higher paid labor pays more in Taxes, and creates more in demand. Doubling the minimum wage means that increase in purchasing power for parity purposes. Prices won't double. Meeting or beating inflation for parity of purchasing power means an improved standard of living for the Poor.

 

[danielpalos]

Increasing the minimum wage increases federal income tax revenue per individual providing labor, around nine times than is raised per individual with the current minimum wage.

While reducing total income taxes collected.

Not from the Poor. Can you please explain your logic for the reduction in total taxes collected.

Not from the Poor.

WTF does that matter when the total collected is smaller?

Can you please explain your logic for the reduction in total taxes collected.

Damn you're dim.

If the worker (taxed at 10%-12%) gets more money from the employer (taxed at 21%)
the tax loss from the higher write-off is larger than the tax increase from the higher wage.

It matters if we have to quibble. It means the Poor would be paying more in taxes while the right wing advocates for tax cut economics for the Rich.