Mississippi...more gun carrying, and after a year....nothing happens...

[rightwinger]

What the gun grabber fail to reason is the complete fail relative to their arguments

Many countries have lax gun laws with low murder rates. At the same time, I can point out countries with high murder rates and strict gun control

But even my comparison is weak since in these other countries gun ownership is a privilige, not a right like here in America

-Geaux

Yet you have failed to name a single country that meets your example

Are you a slow reader?

Israel and South Africa

-Geaux

I'm ready to adopt Israels gun control policies that you claim are more lax....are you?

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Civilians must obtain a firearms license to lawfully acquire, possess, sell, or transfer firearms and ammunition

The list of below personnel are eligible for licenses allowing them to possess firearms:

• Israel Defense Forces officers honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer
• Reservists honorably discharged with the rank of regimental commander
  • Eligible to possess one rifle.
• Ex–special forces enlisted men
• Retired police officers with the rank of sergeant
• Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander
• Licensed public transportation drivers transporting a minimum of five people
• Full-time dealers of jewellery or large sums of cash or valuables
• Civil Guard volunteers
  • Civil Guard snipers may possess one rifle.
• Residents of militarily strategic buffer zones considered essential to state security
  • Such personnel are may possess one handgun.
• Residents of Israeli settlements
  • Settlers may possess handguns and can be issued automatic rifles by the army for personal protection. The automatic rifles are property of the army and may be confiscated at any time.
• Licensed hunters
  • May possess one shotgun

To obtain a firearms license, an applicant must be a resident of Israel for at least three consecutive years, pass a background check that considers the applicant's health, mental, and criminal history, establish a genuine reason for possessing a firearm (such as self-defense, hunting, or sport), and pass a weapons-training course.
The Israeli government maintains an official registry of all residents with firearms licence

Those licensed to possess firearms may not carry them in public without a permit. Separate permits exist for being allowed to carrying open and concealed weapons.[45]
Around 40% of applications for firearms permits are rejected

Under Israeli law, the maximum penalty for unlawful possession of a firearm is 10 years in prison

I said they were lax yes, but in comparison to what? You chose US law

And more news to ponder

In South Africa the homicide rate is 32.2 and guns sales and transfers are PROHIBITED!

Many other ways to die it appears

-Geaux

Interesting that you would point to South Africa as an example

Their gun laws are surprisingly close to ours and they have a murder rate of 31.0 compared to our 4.7

I guess the Dodge City of South Africa is what the NRA aspires to

They are nothing close to our laws idiot

They are PROHIBITED!

-Geaux

They are PROHIBITED!

I have a question for you.......Do you just make shit up that you think supports your position and assume nobody will verify it?


Firearm legislation in South Africa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Seems similar to our NRA laws

 

[rightwinger]

What the gun grabber fail to reason is the complete fail relative to their arguments

Many countries have lax gun laws with low murder rates. At the same time, I can point out countries with high murder rates and strict gun control

But even my comparison is weak since in these other countries gun ownership is a privilige, not a right like here in America

-Geaux

Yet you have failed to name a single country that meets your example

Are you a slow reader?

Israel and South Africa

-Geaux

I'm ready to adopt Israels gun control policies that you claim are more lax....are you?

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Civilians must obtain a firearms license to lawfully acquire, possess, sell, or transfer firearms and ammunition

The list of below personnel are eligible for licenses allowing them to possess firearms:

• Israel Defense Forces officers honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer
• Reservists honorably discharged with the rank of regimental commander
  • Eligible to possess one rifle.
• Ex–special forces enlisted men
• Retired police officers with the rank of sergeant
• Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander
• Licensed public transportation drivers transporting a minimum of five people
• Full-time dealers of jewellery or large sums of cash or valuables
• Civil Guard volunteers
  • Civil Guard snipers may possess one rifle.
• Residents of militarily strategic buffer zones considered essential to state security
  • Such personnel are may possess one handgun.
• Residents of Israeli settlements
  • Settlers may possess handguns and can be issued automatic rifles by the army for personal protection. The automatic rifles are property of the army and may be confiscated at any time.
• Licensed hunters
  • May possess one shotgun

To obtain a firearms license, an applicant must be a resident of Israel for at least three consecutive years, pass a background check that considers the applicant's health, mental, and criminal history, establish a genuine reason for possessing a firearm (such as self-defense, hunting, or sport), and pass a weapons-training course.
The Israeli government maintains an official registry of all residents with firearms licence

Those licensed to possess firearms may not carry them in public without a permit. Separate permits exist for being allowed to carrying open and concealed weapons.[45]
Around 40% of applications for firearms permits are rejected

Under Israeli law, the maximum penalty for unlawful possession of a firearm is 10 years in prison

Why would I want to adopt their process?

You asked me to point out other countries with a lower homicide rate than NYC

You don't like the answer so now you want to compare laws

Straw man much?

-Geaux

Do you have dificulties following threads?

The question was the claim of countries with gun laws more lax than ours with higher homicide rates. You blindly responded Israel and South Africa and were proven wrong in each case

 

[Geaux4it]

What the gun grabber fail to reason is the complete fail relative to their arguments

Many countries have lax gun laws with low murder rates. At the same time, I can point out countries with high murder rates and strict gun control

But even my comparison is weak since in these other countries gun ownership is a privilige, not a right like here in America

-Geaux

Yet you have failed to name a single country that meets your example

Are you a slow reader?

Israel and South Africa

-Geaux

I'm ready to adopt Israels gun control policies that you claim are more lax....are you?

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Civilians must obtain a firearms license to lawfully acquire, possess, sell, or transfer firearms and ammunition

The list of below personnel are eligible for licenses allowing them to possess firearms:

• Israel Defense Forces officers honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer
• Reservists honorably discharged with the rank of regimental commander
  • Eligible to possess one rifle.
• Ex–special forces enlisted men
• Retired police officers with the rank of sergeant
• Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander
• Licensed public transportation drivers transporting a minimum of five people
• Full-time dealers of jewellery or large sums of cash or valuables
• Civil Guard volunteers
  • Civil Guard snipers may possess one rifle.
• Residents of militarily strategic buffer zones considered essential to state security
  • Such personnel are may possess one handgun.
• Residents of Israeli settlements
  • Settlers may possess handguns and can be issued automatic rifles by the army for personal protection. The automatic rifles are property of the army and may be confiscated at any time.
• Licensed hunters
  • May possess one shotgun

To obtain a firearms license, an applicant must be a resident of Israel for at least three consecutive years, pass a background check that considers the applicant's health, mental, and criminal history, establish a genuine reason for possessing a firearm (such as self-defense, hunting, or sport), and pass a weapons-training course.
The Israeli government maintains an official registry of all residents with firearms licence

Those licensed to possess firearms may not carry them in public without a permit. Separate permits exist for being allowed to carrying open and concealed weapons.[45]
Around 40% of applications for firearms permits are rejected

Under Israeli law, the maximum penalty for unlawful possession of a firearm is 10 years in prison

Why would I want to adopt their process?

You asked me to point out other countries with a lower homicide rate than NYC

You don't like the answer so now you want to compare laws

Straw man much?

-Geaux

Do you have dificulties following threads?

The question was the claim of countries with gun laws more lax than ours with higher homicide rates. You blindly responded Israel and South Africa and were proven wrong in each case

Your grade for today

Polish up your game and lets talk tomorrow

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

When the appropriate thread presents itself

BTW- Can't blame it on the failed black culture experiment here in the US.

-Geaux

Why don't you start here

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

New York has a murder rate of 3.3 ....show me a country with a lower murder rate that has lax gun controls

Israel would be a good place for you to research.. 1.3

-Geaux

I am willing to accept Israels gun laws

Are you?

I don't have to accept anything... Well, except the Bill of Rights

You asked me a question for which I answered.

Israel has a lower murder rate than NYC.

-Geaux

Israel has tougher gun laws than NYC

Are you advocating we use them?

No.

And if you watched Bill Whittle's video....our country is #1 for gun ownership...but close to 111 for murder.....110 countries, many of them socialist paradises, have stricter gun control than we have....and it doesn't keep criminals who want guns from getting guns.....

 

[2aguy]

I don't have to accept anything... Well, except the Bill of Rights

You asked me a question for which I answered.

Israel has a lower murder rate than NYC.

-Geaux

Israel has tougher gun laws than NYC

Are you advocating we use them?

Why should I advocate what you suggest?

I advocate we follow the Constitution

What say you?

-Geaux

Way to back out of your claim. Wow.

What claim, it's a fact.

Israel has a lower murder rate than NYC and has lax gun priviliges

-Geaux

And has very few guns. Is that the key then to a low murder rate?

No....culture determines the crime rate, not guns......

 

[rightwinger]

Why don't you start here

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

New York has a murder rate of 3.3 ....show me a country with a lower murder rate that has lax gun controls

Israel would be a good place for you to research.. 1.3

-Geaux

I am willing to accept Israels gun laws

Are you?

I don't have to accept anything... Well, except the Bill of Rights

You asked me a question for which I answered.

Israel has a lower murder rate than NYC.

-Geaux

Israel has tougher gun laws than NYC

Are you advocating we use them?

No.

And if you watched Bill Whittle's video....our country is #1 for gun ownership...but close to 111 for murder.....110 countries, many of them socialist paradises, have stricter gun control than we have....and it doesn't keep criminals who want guns from getting guns.....

Good god....that is sad

You are braggging that we are 111 out of 210 countries in the world. You don't set the bar very high for an acceptable murder rate and are content that we have a rate on par with third world countries with unstable governments

Used to be we held ourselves up as exceptional. Being 111th in homicide rate is not exceptional

 

[rightwinger]

Israel has tougher gun laws than NYC

Are you advocating we use them?

Why should I advocate what you suggest?

I advocate we follow the Constitution

What say you?

-Geaux

Way to back out of your claim. Wow.

What claim, it's a fact.

Israel has a lower murder rate than NYC and has lax gun priviliges

-Geaux

And has very few guns. Is that the key then to a low murder rate?

No....culture determines the crime rate, not guns......

We have a gun culture and pay the price with an outrageous homicide rate

It is the price we pay for a second amendment

 

[2aguy]

Why should I advocate what you suggest?

I advocate we follow the Constitution

What say you?

-Geaux

Way to back out of your claim. Wow.

What claim, it's a fact.

Israel has a lower murder rate than NYC and has lax gun priviliges

-Geaux

And has very few guns. Is that the key then to a low murder rate?

No....culture determines the crime rate, not guns......

We have a gun culture and pay the price with an outrageous homicide rate

It is the price we pay for a second amendment

Actually no.....I looked at the actual murder numbers.....and California, New York and Illinois have more corpses on the ground than missouri...

U.S. homicide number of murders by state 2013 Statistic

And of course 2 of the most violent cities in the country, which are in Missouri, are run by democrats and have been run by democrats for decades, I believe one of them goes back to the 1940s.....so democrat governing policies are far more dangerous to your health.....


And again....you leave out the net positive of guns in our society...on average, American law abiding, good, honest citizens use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives, while there are only a total of 8-9,000 gun murders....

So I think you can do the math rightwinger.....1.6 million violent criminal attacks stopped, vs. 8-9,000 gun murders...and those murders occur in a large part in democrat controlled cities, in small multi block areas of those cities....and if you took out the most violent, democrat controlled cities...we would have a murder rate at or below that of Europe...


YOu should focus more on removing democrats from the position of city mayor, instead of disarming the law abiding people in those cities who need guns to protect themselves....

More Americans are buying, owning and carrying guns, and the gun murder rate is going down, not up, and the gun accident rate is going down, not up.....and we didn't even have to surrender out guns....

As to the other countries...they have lower gun crime rates because their criminals choose not to use guns.....because of their cultures...read my post by David Kopel on Japanese gun control...it is actually all about crimnal control, and a society of the Borg Collective that keeps all of their violent crime down.....but increases their suicide rate...

You really should research the entire topic righwinger.....your irrational fear of guns clouds you ability to see the truth and to use reason.....

 

[2aguy]

And the total number of murders in Missouri for 2013....371....total....of all categories.........so please....out of a country of 320 million people.....that doesn't even require a serious
response, considering that the St. Louis, and Kansas City Missouri rank in the top 25 most violent cities in the country and they are run by democrats for decades......Chicago.....has the strictest gun control in the state of Illinois....and is the murder capital of the state..........they won't even allow gun stores in there yet.....

 

[2aguy]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

 

[2aguy]

And of course, now we learn the truth about the missouri murder rate.....

Opinion Media cherry picks Missouri gun data to make misleading case for more control Fox News

The claim is that when Missouri in 2007 made it easier to buy handguns, the murder rate went up relative to the U.S. murder rate.

Prior to August 2007, Missouri law had established what is known as a universal background check, closing down the so-called gun show loophole.


While it is true that the murder rate in Missouri rose 17 percent relative to the rest of the U.S. in the five years after 2007, it had actually increased by 32 percent during the previous five years.

The question is why the Missouri murder rate was increasing relative to the rest of the United States at a slower rate after the change in the law than it did prior to it. Missouri was on an ominous path before the law was ended.


Simply looking at whether murder rates were higher after the law was rescinded than before misses much of what was going on. Most likely, getting rid of the law slowed the growth rate in murders.


But there are other reasons not to accept the conclusion touted by the press.

The reason for this cherry picking is obvious. Only those conditions produced the desired results. For example, Missouri’s violent crime rate fell 7 percent faster than the violent crime rate for the rest of the United States from 2006 to 2012................

There is already ample research on these universal background checks across all the states. Indeed, the third edition of More Guns, Less Crime provided one study on this, and, unlike the Webster study, it shows no reduction in murder rates from these expanded background checks. Indeed, there was even a slight 2 percent increase in murder rates, but the result was not statistically significant.

For those interested, a discussion of the other problems with Webster’s study is available here.

If one wants to look at the impact of licensing, again there is national research, again such as More Guns, Less Crime, on all sorts of licensing rules from licenses to carry a gun to licenses to own one. For example, if you wanted to look at what happened in one state where murder and robbery rates soared after gun licensing was imposed, look at the disaster that happened in Massachusetts.

It is presumably too much to hope that reporters will understand empirical work. But alarm bells should always go off when only one example is studied when many places have adopted the same types of laws. Reporters should always ask themselves why that one state was examined. Why didn't the researcher even look at what happened when the law was adopted?.......................

It would be nice if there were easy fixes to keep guns away from criminals. But when gun laws primarily disarm the law-abiding, as Missouri’s permitting system used to do. Crime gets worse. Webster’s study actually provides yet more evidence that is true.

 

[rightwinger]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

 

[2aguy]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder.............their irrational fear of guns is so intense they actually prefer people die at the hands of criminals rather than use a gun to save their own lives or the lives of others......

On average Americians use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives........lives saved and not ruined by violent criminals......

And then, even worse, they drag the bodies of those poor victims in front of their allies in the media to use them to call for disarming more innocent people...so that they too can be raped, stabbed, beaten, robbed and murdered....

They are the sick ones.....

 

[2aguy]

And I'm curious....where does the NRA come into this.....? They haven't posted anything here on U.S. message and nothing I use is from them......so how exactly is the NRA any part of our little talk......?

 

[M14 Shooter]

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder....

300,000,000 guns
8454 murders with guns (2013)

1 gun is misused, anti-gun loons want to ban the ~35,500 that were not.

 

[Brain357]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder.............their irrational fear of guns is so intense they actually prefer people die at the hands of criminals rather than use a gun to save their own lives or the lives of others......

On average Americians use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives........lives saved and not ruined by violent criminals......

And then, even worse, they drag the bodies of those poor victims in front of their allies in the media to use them to call for disarming more innocent people...so that they too can be raped, stabbed, beaten, robbed and murdered....

They are the sick ones.....

Still using that ridiculous 1.6? Debunked. And most aren't against violent crime.

 

[2aguy]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder.............their irrational fear of guns is so intense they actually prefer people die at the hands of criminals rather than use a gun to save their own lives or the lives of others......

On average Americians use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives........lives saved and not ruined by violent criminals......

And then, even worse, they drag the bodies of those poor victims in front of their allies in the media to use them to call for disarming more innocent people...so that they too can be raped, stabbed, beaten, robbed and murdered....

They are the sick ones.....

Still using that ridiculous 1.6? Debunked. And most aren't against violent crime.

Hasn't been debunked once. And all of them involve interacting with a criminal, not property crime...making it a violent encounter.....that is why the average is crimes "Stopped" or "prevented" since the burglar you confront in your home won't turn into a murderer or a rapist, because you have a gun......

 

[Brain357]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder.............their irrational fear of guns is so intense they actually prefer people die at the hands of criminals rather than use a gun to save their own lives or the lives of others......

On average Americians use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives........lives saved and not ruined by violent criminals......

And then, even worse, they drag the bodies of those poor victims in front of their allies in the media to use them to call for disarming more innocent people...so that they too can be raped, stabbed, beaten, robbed and murdered....

They are the sick ones.....

Still using that ridiculous 1.6? Debunked. And most aren't against violent crime.

Hasn't been debunked once. And all of them involve interacting with a criminal, not property crime...making it a violent encounter.....that is why the average is crimes "Stopped" or "prevented" since the burglar you confront in your home won't turn into a murderer or a rapist, because you have a gun......

Yes they have. With your number almost every gun owner would have a defense. That is far from the truth. There are only a million violent crimes each year. How is it gun owners who are a minority are defending 1.6?

 

[2aguy]

Mississipi...total murders...all murders...142......out of a country of 320 million......

And the escalation in murder in St. Louis Missouri.....because democrat voters were protesting the killing of thug in training Michael Brown, police were called away from regular police duties.....

Homicide Tally in US City of St. Louis Highest Since 2008 Reports Sputnik International

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder.............their irrational fear of guns is so intense they actually prefer people die at the hands of criminals rather than use a gun to save their own lives or the lives of others......

On average Americians use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives........lives saved and not ruined by violent criminals......

And then, even worse, they drag the bodies of those poor victims in front of their allies in the media to use them to call for disarming more innocent people...so that they too can be raped, stabbed, beaten, robbed and murdered....

They are the sick ones.....

Still using that ridiculous 1.6? Debunked. And most aren't against violent crime.

Hasn't been debunked once. And all of them involve interacting with a criminal, not property crime...making it a violent encounter.....that is why the average is crimes "Stopped" or "prevented" since the burglar you confront in your home won't turn into a murderer or a rapist, because you have a gun......

Yes they have. With your number almost every gun owner would have a defense. That is far from the truth. There are only a million violent crimes each year. How is it gun owners who are a minority are defending 1.6?

There are more than a million violent crimes a year...would like to see that link? And the reason there aren't even more...because 1.6 million violent crimes each year are stopped or prevented because the law abiding citizen uses a gun to stop it.....imagine if all those people had to face violent criminals without those guns.......

 

[Brain357]

It is downright pathetic that the NRA would attempt to downplay our horrendous murder rate with statistics that say.....look at all the people who weren't murdered by guns

It is actually pathetic that anti gunners would use our low murder rate to take away innocent peoples best way to protect themselves from violent criminal attack, including rape, beatings, robbery, stabbings, and murder.............their irrational fear of guns is so intense they actually prefer people die at the hands of criminals rather than use a gun to save their own lives or the lives of others......

On average Americians use guns 1.6 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives........lives saved and not ruined by violent criminals......

And then, even worse, they drag the bodies of those poor victims in front of their allies in the media to use them to call for disarming more innocent people...so that they too can be raped, stabbed, beaten, robbed and murdered....

They are the sick ones.....

Still using that ridiculous 1.6? Debunked. And most aren't against violent crime.

Hasn't been debunked once. And all of them involve interacting with a criminal, not property crime...making it a violent encounter.....that is why the average is crimes "Stopped" or "prevented" since the burglar you confront in your home won't turn into a murderer or a rapist, because you have a gun......

Yes they have. With your number almost every gun owner would have a defense. That is far from the truth. There are only a million violent crimes each year. How is it gun owners who are a minority are defending 1.6?

There are more than a million violent crimes a year...would like to see that link? And the reason there aren't even more...because 1.6 million violent crimes each year are stopped or prevented because the law abiding citizen uses a gun to stop it.....imagine if all those people had to face violent criminals without those guns.......

Looks like about 1.1 in 2013.
United States Crime Rates1960 - 2013

How are they defending more violent crime than occurs?