Missouri executes brain damaged cop-killer Cecil Clayton

[BULLDOG]

We don't have to kill anybody. It's cheaper to lock them up forever than it is to kill them, and we wouldn't have to worry about a questionable execution.

If "life in prison" actually meant "life in prison" I think the majority of Americans would be willing to give up the death penalty.
Unfortunately, we have a long history of murderers who were originally given life sentences, allowed to be paroled well before they actually die.

True.....We also have a history of killing people and later finding out they were innocent. Neither scenario is acceptable, but killing innocent people is not one of the principals the founding fathers were hoping for.

Can you quote one in recent (last few decades) memory? And not just "he may have been innocent" 100% cleared.

I don't look at the possibility of taking an innocent life as trivial. It's not surprising that right wingers do.

years and years of appeals and reviews is "trivial"?

Some criminals just deserve to die.

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

 

[Jarlaxle]

We don't have to kill anybody. It's cheaper to lock them up forever than it is to kill them, and we wouldn't have to worry about a questionable execution.

If "life in prison" actually meant "life in prison" I think the majority of Americans would be willing to give up the death penalty.
Unfortunately, we have a long history of murderers who were originally given life sentences, allowed to be paroled well before they actually die.

True.....We also have a history of killing people and later finding out they were innocent. Neither scenario is acceptable, but killing innocent people is not one of the principals the founding fathers were hoping for.

Can you quote one in recent (last few decades) memory? And not just "he may have been innocent" 100% cleared.

Cameron Todd Willingham, Louisiana.

The FBI in Boston railroaded four people to death row...they KNEW they were innocent, because the real killer was one of their stool pigeons. The only reason none were executed (though two dies in prison) was the Furman decision by the Supreme Court.

Again, I read a lot of supposition of presumption of innocence, and nothing that clears him.

Well, yeah, because, you know...states generally will not hear appeals from dead people! They don't dare...because the potential liability when they DO acquit someone already executed is staggering.

 

[martybegan]

If "life in prison" actually meant "life in prison" I think the majority of Americans would be willing to give up the death penalty.
Unfortunately, we have a long history of murderers who were originally given life sentences, allowed to be paroled well before they actually die.

True.....We also have a history of killing people and later finding out they were innocent. Neither scenario is acceptable, but killing innocent people is not one of the principals the founding fathers were hoping for.

Can you quote one in recent (last few decades) memory? And not just "he may have been innocent" 100% cleared.

I don't look at the possibility of taking an innocent life as trivial. It's not surprising that right wingers do.

years and years of appeals and reviews is "trivial"?

Some criminals just deserve to die.

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

 

[martybegan]

If "life in prison" actually meant "life in prison" I think the majority of Americans would be willing to give up the death penalty.
Unfortunately, we have a long history of murderers who were originally given life sentences, allowed to be paroled well before they actually die.

True.....We also have a history of killing people and later finding out they were innocent. Neither scenario is acceptable, but killing innocent people is not one of the principals the founding fathers were hoping for.

Can you quote one in recent (last few decades) memory? And not just "he may have been innocent" 100% cleared.

Cameron Todd Willingham, Louisiana.

The FBI in Boston railroaded four people to death row...they KNEW they were innocent, because the real killer was one of their stool pigeons. The only reason none were executed (though two dies in prison) was the Furman decision by the Supreme Court.

Again, I read a lot of supposition of presumption of innocence, and nothing that clears him.

Well, yeah, because, you know...states generally will not hear appeals from dead people! They don't dare...because the potential liability when they DO acquit someone already executed is staggering.

If there was a case where the person could be 100% vindicated (again in modern times) I'm sure some Innocence project would be able to produce enough evidence to convince even me.

As an aside, how is killing an innocent person via state action after 20 years so much more wrong than letting them die of old age in prison after 50? In both cases we have taken a life via State action, and the guy rotting in jail for 50 years doesn't get the added attention to his case Death penalty criminals get.

 

[BULLDOG]

True.....We also have a history of killing people and later finding out they were innocent. Neither scenario is acceptable, but killing innocent people is not one of the principals the founding fathers were hoping for.

Can you quote one in recent (last few decades) memory? And not just "he may have been innocent" 100% cleared.

I don't look at the possibility of taking an innocent life as trivial. It's not surprising that right wingers do.

years and years of appeals and reviews is "trivial"?

Some criminals just deserve to die.

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

My point exactly. I said some people deserve that, not that we should do it. The nature of prison life is what it is, and I don't pretend to know how to fix it. I've had dealings with hundreds of ex-cons. It's nothing a sane person would chose during or after their incarceration.

 

[martybegan]

Can you quote one in recent (last few decades) memory? And not just "he may have been innocent" 100% cleared.

I don't look at the possibility of taking an innocent life as trivial. It's not surprising that right wingers do.

years and years of appeals and reviews is "trivial"?

Some criminals just deserve to die.

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

My point exactly. I said some people deserve that, not that we should do it. The nature of prison life is what it is, and I don't pretend to know how to fix it. I've had dealings with hundreds of ex-cons. It's nothing a sane person would chose during or after their incarceration.

And yet recidivism among felons is always very high. So some people must find it not too bad if they keep going back again, and again, and again.

You assume Criminals don't have anything wrong with them, which considering they are criminals, is silly.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't look at the possibility of taking an innocent life as trivial. It's not surprising that right wingers do.

years and years of appeals and reviews is "trivial"?

Some criminals just deserve to die.

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

My point exactly. I said some people deserve that, not that we should do it. The nature of prison life is what it is, and I don't pretend to know how to fix it. I've had dealings with hundreds of ex-cons. It's nothing a sane person would chose during or after their incarceration.

And yet recidivism among felons is always very high. So some people must find it not too bad if they keep going back again, and again, and again.

You assume Criminals don't have anything wrong with them, which considering they are criminals, is silly.

How would you know what I assume? Criminals usually aren't the smartest people in the world, and even if there is nothing wrong with them when they go in, there probably will be when they come out. Skills required inside are not the same skills required outside.

 

[martybegan]

years and years of appeals and reviews is "trivial"?

Some criminals just deserve to die.

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

My point exactly. I said some people deserve that, not that we should do it. The nature of prison life is what it is, and I don't pretend to know how to fix it. I've had dealings with hundreds of ex-cons. It's nothing a sane person would chose during or after their incarceration.

And yet recidivism among felons is always very high. So some people must find it not too bad if they keep going back again, and again, and again.

You assume Criminals don't have anything wrong with them, which considering they are criminals, is silly.

How would you know what I assume? Criminals usually aren't the smartest people in the world, and even if there is nothing wrong with them when they go in, there probably will be when they come out. Skills required inside are not the same skills required outside.

From what your write, I can tell that you can't separate how you see prison from how a career criminal sees it.

 

[JFK_USA]

One less cop killer on the streets and one less mouth to feed at taxpayer expense. Regardless of brain function all people get to choose which decisions they make -- rights decisions or wrong decisions. Choose wisely!

If a person doesn't have the mental capabilities to make the wise choice because of a condition, why should we be putting the person to death if they didn't know what they were doing?

 

[BULLDOG]

Some do deserve to die. A slow painful agonizing death. Some deserve to be given to their victims family for the weekend, and if there is anything left Monday morning, throw them back in the cell. It's not about what they deserve. It's about who we are. Lock them up and let them rot. Let them develop a meaningful relationship with bubba and all his friends, At least that way we know we don't have innocent blood on our hands.

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

My point exactly. I said some people deserve that, not that we should do it. The nature of prison life is what it is, and I don't pretend to know how to fix it. I've had dealings with hundreds of ex-cons. It's nothing a sane person would chose during or after their incarceration.

And yet recidivism among felons is always very high. So some people must find it not too bad if they keep going back again, and again, and again.

You assume Criminals don't have anything wrong with them, which considering they are criminals, is silly.

How would you know what I assume? Criminals usually aren't the smartest people in the world, and even if there is nothing wrong with them when they go in, there probably will be when they come out. Skills required inside are not the same skills required outside.

From what your write, I can tell that you can't separate how you see prison from how a career criminal sees it.

I suspect you have no idea how a career criminal or I see things.

 

[martybegan]

If you let them die at the hands of prisoners you still have blood on your hands, you are just exercising in mental masturbation to try to make yourself able to sleep at night. And intentionally letting other prisoners torture them IS cruel and unusual punishment, and thus unconstitutional.

And letting the victims families get their hands on them defeats the purpose of a criminal justice system altogether.

If we decide to execute people for certain crimes, it has to be handled judicially.

My point exactly. I said some people deserve that, not that we should do it. The nature of prison life is what it is, and I don't pretend to know how to fix it. I've had dealings with hundreds of ex-cons. It's nothing a sane person would chose during or after their incarceration.

And yet recidivism among felons is always very high. So some people must find it not too bad if they keep going back again, and again, and again.

You assume Criminals don't have anything wrong with them, which considering they are criminals, is silly.

How would you know what I assume? Criminals usually aren't the smartest people in the world, and even if there is nothing wrong with them when they go in, there probably will be when they come out. Skills required inside are not the same skills required outside.

From what your write, I can tell that you can't separate how you see prison from how a career criminal sees it.

I suspect you have no idea how a career criminal or I see things.

My brother is a DA, I get plenty of 2nd hand knowledge on criminals, both the budding and the career type.

And as for you, I can easily tell from your posting your inability to see things from another perspective, or to understand someone having a differing world-view than your own. It's what makes progressive so "charming"

 

[DriftingSand]

i cannot agree here.....one has to have compassion....his brain was basically destroyed by a frontal lobotomy it does not matter that it was accidental it is what it is....i just cannot see executing the brain damaged....but then again you have those expert witnesses who can make anyone fit the brain damaged profile

seems like serving that many years on death row and death not coming is a torture in itself...

If the man didn't have the "compassion" to keep from killing a cop with a family then he's no longer suitable for society. He hand enough brain power to think about killing and he had enough brain power to pull a trigger. Nobody forced him to make that decision. There's a good reason for the death penalty and the killer meets the criteria.

 

[DriftingSand]

One less cop killer on the streets and one less mouth to feed at taxpayer expense. Regardless of brain function all people get to choose which decisions they make -- rights decisions or wrong decisions. Choose wisely!

If a person doesn't have the mental capabilities to make the wise choice because of a condition, why should we be putting the person to death if they didn't know what they were doing?

Because they've proven themselves to be a danger to society. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's willing to murder is lacking "mental capabilities." Murder isn't normal and murderers should permanently taken from our midst. I see no reason that taxpayers should be forced to pay for their room and board for the rest of their lives.

 

[rightwinger]

One less cop killer on the streets and one less mouth to feed at taxpayer expense. Regardless of brain function all people get to choose which decisions they make -- rights decisions or wrong decisions. Choose wisely!

If a person doesn't have the mental capabilities to make the wise choice because of a condition, why should we be putting the person to death if they didn't know what they were doing?

That is why most of the world is appalled at executions like this

We are so intent on vengeance that we ignore obvious factors that would have led to the crime

 

[JFK_USA]

One less cop killer on the streets and one less mouth to feed at taxpayer expense. Regardless of brain function all people get to choose which decisions they make -- rights decisions or wrong decisions. Choose wisely!

If a person doesn't have the mental capabilities to make the wise choice because of a condition, why should we be putting the person to death if they didn't know what they were doing?

Because they've proven themselves to be a danger to society. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's willing to murder is lacking "mental capabilities." Murder isn't normal and murderers should permanently taken from our midst. I see no reason that taxpayers should be forced to pay for their room and board for the rest of their lives.

Murder is always going to happen. Someone is always killing someone. Putting them away in a mental hospital and treating the person is better than just condemning a person to immediate death for an act they did not know they were committing or were wrong. Life in prison is also just as effective because they are put away in jail and not in society.

 

[DriftingSand]

One less cop killer on the streets and one less mouth to feed at taxpayer expense. Regardless of brain function all people get to choose which decisions they make -- rights decisions or wrong decisions. Choose wisely!

If a person doesn't have the mental capabilities to make the wise choice because of a condition, why should we be putting the person to death if they didn't know what they were doing?

That is why most of the world is appalled at executions like this

We are so intent on vengeance that we ignore obvious factors that would have led to the crime

What "the world is appalled at" is none of my concern. I'm only concerned about weeding out the bad seed for the benefit of the whole.

 

[DriftingSand]

One less cop killer on the streets and one less mouth to feed at taxpayer expense. Regardless of brain function all people get to choose which decisions they make -- rights decisions or wrong decisions. Choose wisely!

If a person doesn't have the mental capabilities to make the wise choice because of a condition, why should we be putting the person to death if they didn't know what they were doing?

Because they've proven themselves to be a danger to society. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's willing to murder is lacking "mental capabilities." Murder isn't normal and murderers should permanently taken from our midst. I see no reason that taxpayers should be forced to pay for their room and board for the rest of their lives.

Murder is always going to happen. Someone is always killing someone. Putting them away in a mental hospital and treating the person is better than just condemning a person to immediate death for an act they did not know they were committing or were wrong. Life in prison is also just as effective because they are put away in jail and not in society.

Sooner or later, everyone is going to die whether they end up in a mental ward or not. So, in an odd way, we're doing murderers a favor by giving them the death penalty and sparing them years of guilt.