Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[kaz]

Show me anywhere in the Constitution where it specifically prohibits a States succession. Hint the supremacy clause as you call it only grants the feds the power to exercise the limited powers vested to them in the Constitution, nothing else.

The part where they signed the Constitution

Apparently you're an illiterate dumbass.

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

Begging the question

Where does the Constitution say that?

 

[kaz]

Let's see, strawman, something you make up and put in someone else's mouth and attack it as if they had said it.

Nope, means exactly what I think it does

I don't think it means what you think it does

The South seceded to preserve the right to maintain slavery. That is in no way a Strawman.....it is what is known as a historical fact

I don't think you do think it means what I think it does. But you are an idiot who don't know what it means, so what does that matter?

That is a Strawman argument!

Better stop it or I'll report you to the Internet Police

That doesn't even make sense. Then again little you say does and the rare times you make sense you are wrong

And you double down with another Strawman

Are you actually eight?

 

[bripat9643]

Show me anywhere in the Constitution where it specifically prohibits a States succession. Hint the supremacy clause as you call it only grants the feds the power to exercise the limited powers vested to them in the Constitution, nothing else.

The part where they signed the Constitution

Apparently you're an illiterate dumbass.

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

A contract has to be signed by the people who have to comply with its terms. What about the people who didn't vote for these "representatives?" What about all the following generations who never had a chance to vote for them? The Constitution simply isn't a valid contract.

There is no language in the Constitution that prevents a state from seceding, so your claim is fatuous, to say the least.

 

[g5000]

Do you guys ever feel schizophrenic when you blame Democrats for slavery one day and then defend the states who seceded over slavery the next day?

You should.

 

[rightwinger]

The part where they signed the Constitution

Apparently you're an illiterate dumbass.

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

Begging the question

Where does the Constitution say that?

In the part where they signed it

 

[rightwinger]

The part where they signed the Constitution

Apparently you're an illiterate dumbass.

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

A contract has to be signed by the people who have to comply with its terms. What about the people who didn't vote for these "representatives?" What about all the following generations who never had a chance to vote for them? The Constitution simply isn't a valid contract.

There is no language in the Constitution that prevents a state from seceding, so your claim is fatuous, to say the least.

You think our government does things by unanimous consent?

We are a Republic....look it up

That is the reason "We the People" formed a Constitution.....to define that government

 

[thanatos144]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

SOME Conservatives are regressing today. After the bail outs they abandoned ship in order to say, "It wasn't me".

In their search to find out where they went wrong, they went in the wrong direction. Notice how much 3rd world ideology lines up with Conservatives in America.

Conservative should not be brain based too.

Racism is extreme on political forums because the racists can hide behind a keyboard. A lot of them won't act this way in life. I live around a lot of them and they try to act sneaky about their racism. It's funny because they don't even know they are being racist. It's how far behind we are as a civil Nation.

Conservatives are not regressive ... that we leave to your kind both progressives and the old democrat libertarians

You're a "conservative?" You must be one of those paleo-conservatives who worships totalitarianism.

Son because I read history and don't believe the lies you believe doesn't mean I am a totalitarian.

 

[kaz]

Apparently you're an illiterate dumbass.

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

Begging the question

Where does the Constitution say that?

In the part where they signed it

Do you do sock puppets too, big guy?

 

[Syriusly]

4 of them said so. The rest didn't comment.

The rest had slaves and wanted to keep them. That is a historical fact that you cannot dispute.

So you presume to tell us why the seceded even though you haven't got a shred of actual evidence?

Hmmm well lets see
South Carolina
Viriginia
Georgia
Mississippi
Texas
Alabama
Virginia

All mention slavery in their secession or causes of secession statements. Other states- well not every state made a 'secession statement' or causes statement- but there are other documents:

Mr. President and Gentlemen of the people of Texas.

I have the honor to address you as the commissioner of the people of Louisiana, accredited to your honorable body. With this communication, by the favor of your presiding officer, will be laid before you my credentials, the ordinance of secession

Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery, and of the free institutions of the founders of the Federal Union, bequeathed to their posterity. As her neighbor and sister State, she desires the hearty co-operation of Texas in the formation of a Southern Confederacy.
....
The people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery, if Texas either did not secede or having seceded should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy. If she remains in the union the abolitionists would continue their work of incendiarism and murder. ...
Geo. Williamson Commissioner of the State of Louisiana City of Austin Feby 11th 1861

Well there you go. There's nothing more 'American' per Britpat than seeking to 'preserve the blessings of African Slavery'.

Not really an American thing.

More like an African Tribal thing.

More like an Arab-Berber-Muslim Slaver thing.

More like a Spanish and Portugese and English thing.

Americans were pikers and johnny-come-latelies compared to those guys.

No denying our past- it was an American thing for about 200 years. No- we were not the only slave owning country- but we were a slave owning country- and ultimately it was to preserve owning slaves that the Confederate States tried to secede from the Union.

 

[bripat9643]

Apparently you're an illiterate dumbass.

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

A contract has to be signed by the people who have to comply with its terms. What about the people who didn't vote for these "representatives?" What about all the following generations who never had a chance to vote for them? The Constitution simply isn't a valid contract.

There is no language in the Constitution that prevents a state from seceding, so your claim is fatuous, to say the least.

You think our government does things by unanimous consent?

We are a Republic....look it up

That is the reason "We the People" formed a Constitution.....to define that government

Contracts require unanimous consent by all who are bound by their terms. Anything lacking that is not a valid contract.

You are right, government seldom does anything with the consent of those who the government does it to. That's the nature of government. It's the opposite of voluntary cooperation. It's nothing but pure force.

 

[Syriusly]

Discussion are like this because tards have confused cause and effect.

The cause was the preservation of slavery. The seceding states said so quite plainly.

It's not that simple.

It's a deflection since it's irrelevant to the discussion. e

Actually it is pretty much that simple.

If people would stop arguing that the preserving slavery was not one of the reasons, if not the primary reason the Confederacy formed and states seceded, we wouldn't be pointing out that the States very clearly identified slavery as that proximate reason.

No one said it wasn't, Syriously Stupid. The discussion is about support for THE RIGHT of secession, the slavery crap is all coming from you idiot liberals

No- clearly not- unless you are calling yourself an 'idiot liberal'

You keep posting to show states that that didn't include 'slavery' in their secession statements- your slavery crap is right there. You don't want to talk about slavery- don't talk about slavery.

Kaz

OK, let's start with Virginia

-------------------------------------

TRANSCRIPTION
Page 1 of 1
The Virginia Convention Voted For Secession, April 17, 1861

An Ordinance

To repeal the ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, by the State of Virginia, and to resume all the rights and powers granted under said Constitution.



Kaz



Let's try North Carolina. Oops:

------------------------------------

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of North Carolina and the other States united with her, under the compact of government entitled "The Constitution of the United States."

I didn't claim anything, I was responding to your fuck buddy's claims that zero States did not reference slavery when they seceded.

I posted Virgina, North Carolina and South Carolina. Virginia I missed one reference. South Carolina, apparently I read the short version.

North Carolina still stands, not seeing a contradiction. Since the claim was and seconded that every one did, I'm winning, Holmes

Kaz:

The discussion is about support for THE RIGHT of secession, the slavery crap is all coming from you idiot liberals

So apparently you are an 'idiot liberal'- since I just pointed out your two posts discussing slavery in regards to secession.

 

[bripat9643]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

SOME Conservatives are regressing today. After the bail outs they abandoned ship in order to say, "It wasn't me".

In their search to find out where they went wrong, they went in the wrong direction. Notice how much 3rd world ideology lines up with Conservatives in America.

Conservative should not be brain based too.

Racism is extreme on political forums because the racists can hide behind a keyboard. A lot of them won't act this way in life. I live around a lot of them and they try to act sneaky about their racism. It's funny because they don't even know they are being racist. It's how far behind we are as a civil Nation.

Conservatives are not regressive ... that we leave to your kind both progressives and the old democrat libertarians

You're a "conservative?" You must be one of those paleo-conservatives who worships totalitarianism.

Son because I read history and don't believe the lies you believe doesn't mean I am a totalitarian.

You read propaganda. Everything you believe is a lie. That's one of the principle ways that totalitarianism works, by brainwashing its followers to believe that its the highest form of freedom.

 

[Syriusly]

Tariff's?
Five myths about why the South seceded - The Washington Post

2. Secession was about tariffs and taxes.
During the nadir of post-civil-war race relations — the terrible years after 1890 when town after town across the North became all-white “sundown towns” and state after state across the South prevented African Americans from voting — “anything but slavery” explanations of the Civil War gained traction. To this day Confederate sympathizers successfully float this false claim, along with their preferred name for the conflict: the War Between the States. At the infamous Secession Ball in South Carolina, hosted in December by the Sons of Confederate Veterans, “the main reasons for secession were portrayed as high tariffs and Northern states using Southern tax money to build their own infrastructure,” The Washington Post reported.

These explanations are flatly wrong. High tariffs had prompted the Nullification Controversy in 1831-33, when, after South Carolina demanded the right to nullify federal laws or secede in protest, President Andrew Jackson threatened force. No state joined the movement, and South Carolina backed down. Tariffs were not an issue in 1860, and Southern states said nothing about them. Why would they? Southerners had written the tariff of 1857, under which the nation was functioning. Its rates were lower than at any point since 1816.

Lincoln cult propaganda. Quoting some leftwing drone's opinion proves nothing.

Anti-American cult propaganda. You saying Tariffs were the reason for secession proves less than nothing- since you have demonstrated your blind partisanship towards the Confederacy.

 

[bripat9643]

The rest had slaves and wanted to keep them. That is a historical fact that you cannot dispute.

So you presume to tell us why the seceded even though you haven't got a shred of actual evidence?

Hmmm well lets see
South Carolina
Viriginia
Georgia
Mississippi
Texas
Alabama
Virginia

All mention slavery in their secession or causes of secession statements. Other states- well not every state made a 'secession statement' or causes statement- but there are other documents:

Mr. President and Gentlemen of the people of Texas.

I have the honor to address you as the commissioner of the people of Louisiana, accredited to your honorable body. With this communication, by the favor of your presiding officer, will be laid before you my credentials, the ordinance of secession

Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery, and of the free institutions of the founders of the Federal Union, bequeathed to their posterity. As her neighbor and sister State, she desires the hearty co-operation of Texas in the formation of a Southern Confederacy.
....
The people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery, if Texas either did not secede or having seceded should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy. If she remains in the union the abolitionists would continue their work of incendiarism and murder. ...
Geo. Williamson Commissioner of the State of Louisiana City of Austin Feby 11th 1861

Well there you go. There's nothing more 'American' per Britpat than seeking to 'preserve the blessings of African Slavery'.

Not really an American thing.

More like an African Tribal thing.

More like an Arab-Berber-Muslim Slaver thing.

More like a Spanish and Portugese and English thing.

Americans were pikers and johnny-come-latelies compared to those guys.

No denying our past- it was an American thing for about 200 years. No- we were not the only slave owning country- but we were a slave owning country- and ultimately it was to preserve owning slaves that the Confederate States tried to secede from the Union.

Denying our past is exactly what brainwashed turds like you do.

 

[thanatos144]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

SOME Conservatives are regressing today. After the bail outs they abandoned ship in order to say, "It wasn't me".

In their search to find out where they went wrong, they went in the wrong direction. Notice how much 3rd world ideology lines up with Conservatives in America.

Conservative should not be brain based too.

Racism is extreme on political forums because the racists can hide behind a keyboard. A lot of them won't act this way in life. I live around a lot of them and they try to act sneaky about their racism. It's funny because they don't even know they are being racist. It's how far behind we are as a civil Nation.

Conservatives are not regressive ... that we leave to your kind both progressives and the old democrat libertarians

You're a "conservative?" You must be one of those paleo-conservatives who worships totalitarianism.

Son because I read history and don't believe the lies you believe doesn't mean I am a totalitarian.

You read propaganda. Everything you believe is a lie. That's one of the principle ways that totalitarianism works, by brainwashing its followers to believe that its the highest form of freedom.

No son....What you are spouting is lies. Confederates were slave owning racist democrats. They started the war. They lost the war. Lincoln saved the country and a slave owning democrat killed him for it. Their own documents prove you are full of shit. Their constitution first and foremost said they were a country built on slavery and about slavery.

 

[bripat9643]

Tariff's?
Five myths about why the South seceded - The Washington Post

2. Secession was about tariffs and taxes.
During the nadir of post-civil-war race relations — the terrible years after 1890 when town after town across the North became all-white “sundown towns” and state after state across the South prevented African Americans from voting — “anything but slavery” explanations of the Civil War gained traction. To this day Confederate sympathizers successfully float this false claim, along with their preferred name for the conflict: the War Between the States. At the infamous Secession Ball in South Carolina, hosted in December by the Sons of Confederate Veterans, “the main reasons for secession were portrayed as high tariffs and Northern states using Southern tax money to build their own infrastructure,” The Washington Post reported.

These explanations are flatly wrong. High tariffs had prompted the Nullification Controversy in 1831-33, when, after South Carolina demanded the right to nullify federal laws or secede in protest, President Andrew Jackson threatened force. No state joined the movement, and South Carolina backed down. Tariffs were not an issue in 1860, and Southern states said nothing about them. Why would they? Southerners had written the tariff of 1857, under which the nation was functioning. Its rates were lower than at any point since 1816.

Lincoln cult propaganda. Quoting some leftwing drone's opinion proves nothing.

Anti-American cult propaganda. You saying Tariffs were the reason for secession proves less than nothing- since you have demonstrated your blind partisanship towards the Confederacy.

In other words, anyone who says Lincoln's invasion of Virginia was illegal and unjustified is wrong because they believe Lincoln's invasion of Virginia was illegal and unjustified.

Stunning display of liberlogic.

 

[bripat9643]

SOME Conservatives are regressing today. After the bail outs they abandoned ship in order to say, "It wasn't me".

In their search to find out where they went wrong, they went in the wrong direction. Notice how much 3rd world ideology lines up with Conservatives in America.

Conservative should not be brain based too.

Racism is extreme on political forums because the racists can hide behind a keyboard. A lot of them won't act this way in life. I live around a lot of them and they try to act sneaky about their racism. It's funny because they don't even know they are being racist. It's how far behind we are as a civil Nation.

Conservatives are not regressive ... that we leave to your kind both progressives and the old democrat libertarians

You're a "conservative?" You must be one of those paleo-conservatives who worships totalitarianism.

Son because I read history and don't believe the lies you believe doesn't mean I am a totalitarian.

You read propaganda. Everything you believe is a lie. That's one of the principle ways that totalitarianism works, by brainwashing its followers to believe that its the highest form of freedom.

No son....What you are spouting is lies. Confederates were slave owning racist democrats. They started the war. They lost the war. Lincoln saved the country and a slave owning democrat killed him for it. Their own documents prove you are full of shit. Their constitution first and foremost said they were a country built on slavery and about slavery.

Your screed is accompanied by the usual proof: none.

Try posting a fact or two. Perhaps someone might be interested in it then.

 

[regent]

So certainly the CSA put in their new Constitution that states have a right to secede from the confederacy, or did they?

 

[Syriusly]

Apparently, you don't understand a binding contract. Once you sign a contract, you cannot unilaterally break it

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

A contract has to be signed by the people who have to comply with its terms. What about the people who didn't vote for these "representatives?" What about all the following generations who never had a chance to vote for them? The Constitution simply isn't a valid contract.

There is no language in the Constitution that prevents a state from seceding, so your claim is fatuous, to say the least.

You think our government does things by unanimous consent?

We are a Republic....look it up

That is the reason "We the People" formed a Constitution.....to define that government

Contracts require unanimous consent by all who are bound by their terms. Anything lacking that is not a valid contract.

You are right, government seldom does anything with the consent of those who the government does it to. That's the nature of government. It's the opposite of voluntary cooperation. It's nothing but pure force.

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

SOME Conservatives are regressing today. After the bail outs they abandoned ship in order to say, "It wasn't me".

In their search to find out where they went wrong, they went in the wrong direction. Notice how much 3rd world ideology lines up with Conservatives in America.

Conservative should not be brain based too.

Racism is extreme on political forums because the racists can hide behind a keyboard. A lot of them won't act this way in life. I live around a lot of them and they try to act sneaky about their racism. It's funny because they don't even know they are being racist. It's how far behind we are as a civil Nation.

Conservatives are not regressive ... that we leave to your kind both progressives and the old democrat libertarians

You're a "conservative?" You must be one of those paleo-conservatives who worships totalitarianism.

Son because I read history and don't believe the lies you believe doesn't mean I am a totalitarian.

You read propaganda. Everything you believe is a lie. That's one of the principle ways that totalitarianism works, by brainwashing its followers to believe that its the highest form of freedom.

Yet you are unable to prove that- your posts are propaganda- anti-American propaganda- you have been brainwashed by neo-Confederates and are unable to accept the facts that your Confederate States both seceded to protected slavery- and started the war, when they fired on Federal troops.

 

[bripat9643]

The Constitution isn't a contract, dumbass. The people of the Confederate states certainly never signed it.

Their representatives did

We the People formed a country and each state signed up for it. Once you sign up and are accepted you gain all the benefits of the country and all the responsibilities

States do not get to just "Opt out"

A contract has to be signed by the people who have to comply with its terms. What about the people who didn't vote for these "representatives?" What about all the following generations who never had a chance to vote for them? The Constitution simply isn't a valid contract.

There is no language in the Constitution that prevents a state from seceding, so your claim is fatuous, to say the least.

You think our government does things by unanimous consent?

We are a Republic....look it up

That is the reason "We the People" formed a Constitution.....to define that government

Contracts require unanimous consent by all who are bound by their terms. Anything lacking that is not a valid contract.

You are right, government seldom does anything with the consent of those who the government does it to. That's the nature of government. It's the opposite of voluntary cooperation. It's nothing but pure force.

SOME Conservatives are regressing today. After the bail outs they abandoned ship in order to say, "It wasn't me".

In their search to find out where they went wrong, they went in the wrong direction. Notice how much 3rd world ideology lines up with Conservatives in America.

Conservative should not be brain based too.

Racism is extreme on political forums because the racists can hide behind a keyboard. A lot of them won't act this way in life. I live around a lot of them and they try to act sneaky about their racism. It's funny because they don't even know they are being racist. It's how far behind we are as a civil Nation.

Conservatives are not regressive ... that we leave to your kind both progressives and the old democrat libertarians

You're a "conservative?" You must be one of those paleo-conservatives who worships totalitarianism.

Son because I read history and don't believe the lies you believe doesn't mean I am a totalitarian.

You read propaganda. Everything you believe is a lie. That's one of the principle ways that totalitarianism works, by brainwashing its followers to believe that its the highest form of freedom.

Yet you are unable to prove that- your posts are propaganda- anti-American propaganda- you have been brainwashed by neo-Confederates and are unable to accept the facts that your Confederate States both seceded to protected slavery- and started the war, when they fired on Federal troops.

I have proved everything I say a dozen times over in this forum. There have been other threads on this subject that have thousands of posts. You and some other Lincoln worshipping turds have participated in those threads.

Who do you think you're fooling, asshole?