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People also want it to pay taxes. Here is a lecture by Randall Wray where he talks about the history of taxes, which create a demand for a particular currency:You are indeed correct money is a means of exchange. You are indeed correct that money existed before the government monopolized issuing the currency known as the USD. You know why people want the worthless USD, just like the worthless euro? Taxation. After all, a government has to spend before it can tax its own currency. ...Huh? Ridiculous spending? Elaborate on that.Wrong and wrong. Money is a means of exchange. It existed before government took it over. A tax obligation has nothing to do with the value of money, other than the fact that governments want to have the power to debase the currency as a means to pay off their ridiculous spending and borrowing.What are you rambling about? Money is a way governments can obtain resources to do its duty. A tax obligation gives money value.Seems weird to have a theory of money when one doesn't even know what money is.You tell me.
No, the only reason people want is the fact that they need a medium of exchange and government has outlawed any other mediums of exchange aside from the one it issues. Government has enforced a monopoly on currency so it can loot all of us whenever it wants.
FRB: Federal Reserve liabilities - Credit and Liquidity Programs and the Balance SheetThe debt cliff fear mongering is done by both sides. It's absolute nonsense and a political game. People have claimed that treasury securities are going to collapse the nation for decades and that we'll have to "pay for it" and all of this other nonsense. It's all politics. The "national debt" simply accounts for treasury securities, but in reality, all forms of government issued currency are liabilities of the government, reserves/notes/coins.. Those aren't included in the national debt fear mongering though. Bonds are, quite literally, an interest earning term savings account. Economic stimulus is a wonderful thing, fiscal policy works much better then monetary policy. The new deal, reagan's deficit spending, the recent stimulus.. Deficit spending is a necessity, there's a reason we run a net deficit.Interesting read... I am curious though, I hear plenty fear mongering by the conservatives about the debt cliff and other arguments that are so lopsided that it is hard to take seriously. I'd like to hear from somebody from the other side who see's the benefits of economic stimulus and deficit spending... What are the cautions and possible negative effects that can happen from having an extremely large debt? Is there a breaking point and how is it measured? and what is a healthy goal for spending and debt levels to have a sustainable and flourishing economy?
Read this:
I tend to laugh out loud at the ignorant fools who want to balance the budget for eternity. These people are truly idiots.Deficits are considered to represent sinful profligate spending at the expense of future generations who will be left with a smaller endowment of invested capital.
This fallacy seems to stem from a false analogy to borrowing by individuals. Current reality is almost the exact opposite. Deficits add to the net disposable income of individuals, to the extent that government disbursements that constitute income to recipients exceed that abstracted from disposable income in taxes, fees, and other charges. This added purchasing power, when spent, provides markets for private production, inducing producers to invest in additional plant capacity, which will form part of the real heritage left to the future. This is in addition to whatever public investment takes place in infrastructure, education, research, and the like. Larger deficits, sufficient to recycle savings out of a growing gross domestic product (GDP) in excess of what can be recycled by profit-seeking private investment, are not an economic sin but an economic necessity. Deficits in excess of a gap growing as a result of the maximum feasible growth in real output might indeed cause problems, but we are nowhere near that level.
Even the analogy itself is faulty. If General Motors, AT&T, and individual households had been required to balance their budgets in the manner being applied to the Federal government, there would be no corporate bonds, no mortgages, no bank loans, and many fewer automobiles, telephones, and houses.
I also laugh at people who believe countercylical fiscal policy is a failure. You can't ignore hard data. It's common for people to do this though.
Well, now that we've acknowledged the "national debt" simply represents bonds that are used as a place to save government issued dollars, and if you want to get wonky, bonds are also used to help the central bank manage interest rates. Anyways, nothing can stop us from crediting accounts of the entities that hold bonds when the time comes to "pay the interest." The only reason we're in a situation where people believe that taxes are needed to fund anything is ignorance. Greenspan, Bernanke, others know what is really going on. The average american doesn't care, or believes the government is a household, which is absolute nonsense. Now, "debt" is a problem for governments that do one of these things:
1.) Use a foreign currency, without the ability to create it when needed, having to rely on a foreign entity. (Greece)
2.) A country that pegs their currency.
Now, Japan's debt to GDP is simply massive, and are they collapsing? Absolutely not, because they don't fit any of the above conditions. Now, should we let debt to gdp get as high as Japan? That's up to the reader to decide, but right now, debt to GDP is absolutely fine.
A healthy goal for spending is to get to full employment, which I and others define as:
"Less then 2 percent unemployment, close to zero underemployment, and close to zero hidden unemployment."
Now, that seems like a pipedream, but the best way to aim spending towards full employment is to aim towards a pipe dream. Unfortunately, we have people who believe getting UE below 4.5% (Number is around there) will cause crippling inflation. That number used to be higher, until the 90's where they kept lowering it..
I'd like to borrow this quote, and it really demonstrates the importance of the government running a net deficit:
Unfortunately, no one cares about private sector debt. It's what we need to be worrying about, not the treasury securities of a currency issuer that doesn't peg, have any foreign debt, and doesn't use a foreign currency. The national debt is absolutely necessary, it simply represents money the government has given the domestic private sector/foreign sector. It's earned money saved in the safest vehicle there is, bonds. Nothing to worry about. And I suppose I should ask, are we paying for the world war 2 "debt?" Are we throwing real resources into a time portal? We're idiots! We're worrying about something that benefits the private sector and the world, while we have real issues. Unemployment, education, the military..The private sector cannot survive in negative territory. It cannot go on, year after year, spending more than its income. It is not like the US government. It cannot support rising indebtedness in perpetuity. It is not a currency issuer. Eventually, something will give. And when it does, the private sector will retrench, the economy will contract, and the government's budget will move back into deficit."
So what does the government owe when it issues dollars? If you take a dollar to the Federal Reserve and demand to be paid, they will exchange it for another dollar. Federal Reserve notes are not obligations of any kind. That's the first place you go wrong.
The government will accept it's own currency in relation to taxation.
Actually, no. It meant a Spanish dollar, which contained roughly 394 grains of fine silver.So a fiat dollar isn't a real dollar.Fiat money has nothing physical to back it up. We're not on the gold standard.Yes, but what IS a fiat dollar and how is a fiat dollar different from a real dollar?Fiat money has nothing physical to back it up. Taxation creates a demand for fiat money.What is a fiat dollar and how does that differ from an actual dollar?
So in the constitution, it says the following:
Amendment 7
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty
dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a
jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than
according to the rules of the common law.
What did they mean when they used the word "dollar"?
Then it meant 1/28th oz of gold.
Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"Fiat money has nothing physical to back it up. Taxation creates a demand for fiat money.What is a fiat dollar and how does that differ from an actual dollar?
What utter horseshit. What you mean is that when government outlaws real money and forces you to use funny money, that creates a demand for funny money.
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
I find it funny, you're agreeing with the idea that taxation drives demand for the currency issued by the government, but you hate the idea of it.FRB: Federal Reserve liabilities - Credit and Liquidity Programs and the Balance SheetThe debt cliff fear mongering is done by both sides. It's absolute nonsense and a political game. People have claimed that treasury securities are going to collapse the nation for decades and that we'll have to "pay for it" and all of this other nonsense. It's all politics. The "national debt" simply accounts for treasury securities, but in reality, all forms of government issued currency are liabilities of the government, reserves/notes/coins.. Those aren't included in the national debt fear mongering though. Bonds are, quite literally, an interest earning term savings account. Economic stimulus is a wonderful thing, fiscal policy works much better then monetary policy. The new deal, reagan's deficit spending, the recent stimulus.. Deficit spending is a necessity, there's a reason we run a net deficit.Interesting read... I am curious though, I hear plenty fear mongering by the conservatives about the debt cliff and other arguments that are so lopsided that it is hard to take seriously. I'd like to hear from somebody from the other side who see's the benefits of economic stimulus and deficit spending... What are the cautions and possible negative effects that can happen from having an extremely large debt? Is there a breaking point and how is it measured? and what is a healthy goal for spending and debt levels to have a sustainable and flourishing economy?
Read this:
I tend to laugh out loud at the ignorant fools who want to balance the budget for eternity. These people are truly idiots.Deficits are considered to represent sinful profligate spending at the expense of future generations who will be left with a smaller endowment of invested capital.
This fallacy seems to stem from a false analogy to borrowing by individuals. Current reality is almost the exact opposite. Deficits add to the net disposable income of individuals, to the extent that government disbursements that constitute income to recipients exceed that abstracted from disposable income in taxes, fees, and other charges. This added purchasing power, when spent, provides markets for private production, inducing producers to invest in additional plant capacity, which will form part of the real heritage left to the future. This is in addition to whatever public investment takes place in infrastructure, education, research, and the like. Larger deficits, sufficient to recycle savings out of a growing gross domestic product (GDP) in excess of what can be recycled by profit-seeking private investment, are not an economic sin but an economic necessity. Deficits in excess of a gap growing as a result of the maximum feasible growth in real output might indeed cause problems, but we are nowhere near that level.
Even the analogy itself is faulty. If General Motors, AT&T, and individual households had been required to balance their budgets in the manner being applied to the Federal government, there would be no corporate bonds, no mortgages, no bank loans, and many fewer automobiles, telephones, and houses.
I also laugh at people who believe countercylical fiscal policy is a failure. You can't ignore hard data. It's common for people to do this though.
Well, now that we've acknowledged the "national debt" simply represents bonds that are used as a place to save government issued dollars, and if you want to get wonky, bonds are also used to help the central bank manage interest rates. Anyways, nothing can stop us from crediting accounts of the entities that hold bonds when the time comes to "pay the interest." The only reason we're in a situation where people believe that taxes are needed to fund anything is ignorance. Greenspan, Bernanke, others know what is really going on. The average american doesn't care, or believes the government is a household, which is absolute nonsense. Now, "debt" is a problem for governments that do one of these things:
1.) Use a foreign currency, without the ability to create it when needed, having to rely on a foreign entity. (Greece)
2.) A country that pegs their currency.
Now, Japan's debt to GDP is simply massive, and are they collapsing? Absolutely not, because they don't fit any of the above conditions. Now, should we let debt to gdp get as high as Japan? That's up to the reader to decide, but right now, debt to GDP is absolutely fine.
A healthy goal for spending is to get to full employment, which I and others define as:
"Less then 2 percent unemployment, close to zero underemployment, and close to zero hidden unemployment."
Now, that seems like a pipedream, but the best way to aim spending towards full employment is to aim towards a pipe dream. Unfortunately, we have people who believe getting UE below 4.5% (Number is around there) will cause crippling inflation. That number used to be higher, until the 90's where they kept lowering it..
I'd like to borrow this quote, and it really demonstrates the importance of the government running a net deficit:
Unfortunately, no one cares about private sector debt. It's what we need to be worrying about, not the treasury securities of a currency issuer that doesn't peg, have any foreign debt, and doesn't use a foreign currency. The national debt is absolutely necessary, it simply represents money the government has given the domestic private sector/foreign sector. It's earned money saved in the safest vehicle there is, bonds. Nothing to worry about. And I suppose I should ask, are we paying for the world war 2 "debt?" Are we throwing real resources into a time portal? We're idiots! We're worrying about something that benefits the private sector and the world, while we have real issues. Unemployment, education, the military..The private sector cannot survive in negative territory. It cannot go on, year after year, spending more than its income. It is not like the US government. It cannot support rising indebtedness in perpetuity. It is not a currency issuer. Eventually, something will give. And when it does, the private sector will retrench, the economy will contract, and the government's budget will move back into deficit."
So what does the government owe when it issues dollars? If you take a dollar to the Federal Reserve and demand to be paid, they will exchange it for another dollar. Federal Reserve notes are not obligations of any kind. That's the first place you go wrong.
The government will accept it's own currency in relation to taxation.
So what's your point? If government didn't force you to use the currency it issues, then the value would quickly drop to zero as people shifted all their transactions to other currencies, except for their payments to Uncle Sam, of course. They would be happy to pay Uncle Sam in now worthless Federal Reserve notes.
People also want it to pay taxes. Here is a lecture by Randall Wray where he talks about the history of taxes, which create a demand for a particular currency:You are indeed correct money is a means of exchange. You are indeed correct that money existed before the government monopolized issuing the currency known as the USD. You know why people want the worthless USD, just like the worthless euro? Taxation. After all, a government has to spend before it can tax its own currency. ...Huh? Ridiculous spending? Elaborate on that.Wrong and wrong. Money is a means of exchange. It existed before government took it over. A tax obligation has nothing to do with the value of money, other than the fact that governments want to have the power to debase the currency as a means to pay off their ridiculous spending and borrowing.What are you rambling about? Money is a way governments can obtain resources to do its duty. A tax obligation gives money value.Seems weird to have a theory of money when one doesn't even know what money is.
No, the only reason people want is the fact that they need a medium of exchange and government has outlawed any other mediums of exchange aside from the one it issues. Government has enforced a monopoly on currency so it can loot all of us whenever it wants.
Yes, the government is looting the currency that they spent before they began taxing.
Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"Fiat money has nothing physical to back it up. Taxation creates a demand for fiat money.
What utter horseshit. What you mean is that when government outlaws real money and forces you to use funny money, that creates a demand for funny money.
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
I find it funny, you're agreeing with the idea that taxation drives demand for the currency issued by the government, but you hate the idea of it.FRB: Federal Reserve liabilities - Credit and Liquidity Programs and the Balance SheetThe debt cliff fear mongering is done by both sides. It's absolute nonsense and a political game. People have claimed that treasury securities are going to collapse the nation for decades and that we'll have to "pay for it" and all of this other nonsense. It's all politics. The "national debt" simply accounts for treasury securities, but in reality, all forms of government issued currency are liabilities of the government, reserves/notes/coins.. Those aren't included in the national debt fear mongering though. Bonds are, quite literally, an interest earning term savings account. Economic stimulus is a wonderful thing, fiscal policy works much better then monetary policy. The new deal, reagan's deficit spending, the recent stimulus.. Deficit spending is a necessity, there's a reason we run a net deficit.Interesting read... I am curious though, I hear plenty fear mongering by the conservatives about the debt cliff and other arguments that are so lopsided that it is hard to take seriously. I'd like to hear from somebody from the other side who see's the benefits of economic stimulus and deficit spending... What are the cautions and possible negative effects that can happen from having an extremely large debt? Is there a breaking point and how is it measured? and what is a healthy goal for spending and debt levels to have a sustainable and flourishing economy?
Read this:
I tend to laugh out loud at the ignorant fools who want to balance the budget for eternity. These people are truly idiots.Deficits are considered to represent sinful profligate spending at the expense of future generations who will be left with a smaller endowment of invested capital.
This fallacy seems to stem from a false analogy to borrowing by individuals. Current reality is almost the exact opposite. Deficits add to the net disposable income of individuals, to the extent that government disbursements that constitute income to recipients exceed that abstracted from disposable income in taxes, fees, and other charges. This added purchasing power, when spent, provides markets for private production, inducing producers to invest in additional plant capacity, which will form part of the real heritage left to the future. This is in addition to whatever public investment takes place in infrastructure, education, research, and the like. Larger deficits, sufficient to recycle savings out of a growing gross domestic product (GDP) in excess of what can be recycled by profit-seeking private investment, are not an economic sin but an economic necessity. Deficits in excess of a gap growing as a result of the maximum feasible growth in real output might indeed cause problems, but we are nowhere near that level.
Even the analogy itself is faulty. If General Motors, AT&T, and individual households had been required to balance their budgets in the manner being applied to the Federal government, there would be no corporate bonds, no mortgages, no bank loans, and many fewer automobiles, telephones, and houses.
I also laugh at people who believe countercylical fiscal policy is a failure. You can't ignore hard data. It's common for people to do this though.
Well, now that we've acknowledged the "national debt" simply represents bonds that are used as a place to save government issued dollars, and if you want to get wonky, bonds are also used to help the central bank manage interest rates. Anyways, nothing can stop us from crediting accounts of the entities that hold bonds when the time comes to "pay the interest." The only reason we're in a situation where people believe that taxes are needed to fund anything is ignorance. Greenspan, Bernanke, others know what is really going on. The average american doesn't care, or believes the government is a household, which is absolute nonsense. Now, "debt" is a problem for governments that do one of these things:
1.) Use a foreign currency, without the ability to create it when needed, having to rely on a foreign entity. (Greece)
2.) A country that pegs their currency.
Now, Japan's debt to GDP is simply massive, and are they collapsing? Absolutely not, because they don't fit any of the above conditions. Now, should we let debt to gdp get as high as Japan? That's up to the reader to decide, but right now, debt to GDP is absolutely fine.
A healthy goal for spending is to get to full employment, which I and others define as:
"Less then 2 percent unemployment, close to zero underemployment, and close to zero hidden unemployment."
Now, that seems like a pipedream, but the best way to aim spending towards full employment is to aim towards a pipe dream. Unfortunately, we have people who believe getting UE below 4.5% (Number is around there) will cause crippling inflation. That number used to be higher, until the 90's where they kept lowering it..
I'd like to borrow this quote, and it really demonstrates the importance of the government running a net deficit:
Unfortunately, no one cares about private sector debt. It's what we need to be worrying about, not the treasury securities of a currency issuer that doesn't peg, have any foreign debt, and doesn't use a foreign currency. The national debt is absolutely necessary, it simply represents money the government has given the domestic private sector/foreign sector. It's earned money saved in the safest vehicle there is, bonds. Nothing to worry about. And I suppose I should ask, are we paying for the world war 2 "debt?" Are we throwing real resources into a time portal? We're idiots! We're worrying about something that benefits the private sector and the world, while we have real issues. Unemployment, education, the military..The private sector cannot survive in negative territory. It cannot go on, year after year, spending more than its income. It is not like the US government. It cannot support rising indebtedness in perpetuity. It is not a currency issuer. Eventually, something will give. And when it does, the private sector will retrench, the economy will contract, and the government's budget will move back into deficit."
So what does the government owe when it issues dollars? If you take a dollar to the Federal Reserve and demand to be paid, they will exchange it for another dollar. Federal Reserve notes are not obligations of any kind. That's the first place you go wrong.
The government will accept it's own currency in relation to taxation.
So what's your point? If government didn't force you to use the currency it issues, then the value would quickly drop to zero as people shifted all their transactions to other currencies, except for their payments to Uncle Sam, of course. They would be happy to pay Uncle Sam in now worthless Federal Reserve notes.
Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"What utter horseshit. What you mean is that when government outlaws real money and forces you to use funny money, that creates a demand for funny money.
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
Dude, that sounds like austrian shit. The money supply has to increase, get over it. I work less and earn more in relation to someone in the 1820's.
Think about what you just said. The government only comes after you like that WHEN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.I find it funny, you're agreeing with the idea that taxation drives demand for the currency issued by the government, but you hate the idea of it.FRB: Federal Reserve liabilities - Credit and Liquidity Programs and the Balance SheetThe debt cliff fear mongering is done by both sides. It's absolute nonsense and a political game. People have claimed that treasury securities are going to collapse the nation for decades and that we'll have to "pay for it" and all of this other nonsense. It's all politics. The "national debt" simply accounts for treasury securities, but in reality, all forms of government issued currency are liabilities of the government, reserves/notes/coins.. Those aren't included in the national debt fear mongering though. Bonds are, quite literally, an interest earning term savings account. Economic stimulus is a wonderful thing, fiscal policy works much better then monetary policy. The new deal, reagan's deficit spending, the recent stimulus.. Deficit spending is a necessity, there's a reason we run a net deficit.
Read this:
I tend to laugh out loud at the ignorant fools who want to balance the budget for eternity. These people are truly idiots.
I also laugh at people who believe countercylical fiscal policy is a failure. You can't ignore hard data. It's common for people to do this though.
Well, now that we've acknowledged the "national debt" simply represents bonds that are used as a place to save government issued dollars, and if you want to get wonky, bonds are also used to help the central bank manage interest rates. Anyways, nothing can stop us from crediting accounts of the entities that hold bonds when the time comes to "pay the interest." The only reason we're in a situation where people believe that taxes are needed to fund anything is ignorance. Greenspan, Bernanke, others know what is really going on. The average american doesn't care, or believes the government is a household, which is absolute nonsense. Now, "debt" is a problem for governments that do one of these things:
1.) Use a foreign currency, without the ability to create it when needed, having to rely on a foreign entity. (Greece)
2.) A country that pegs their currency.
Now, Japan's debt to GDP is simply massive, and are they collapsing? Absolutely not, because they don't fit any of the above conditions. Now, should we let debt to gdp get as high as Japan? That's up to the reader to decide, but right now, debt to GDP is absolutely fine.
A healthy goal for spending is to get to full employment, which I and others define as:
"Less then 2 percent unemployment, close to zero underemployment, and close to zero hidden unemployment."
Now, that seems like a pipedream, but the best way to aim spending towards full employment is to aim towards a pipe dream. Unfortunately, we have people who believe getting UE below 4.5% (Number is around there) will cause crippling inflation. That number used to be higher, until the 90's where they kept lowering it..
I'd like to borrow this quote, and it really demonstrates the importance of the government running a net deficit:
Unfortunately, no one cares about private sector debt. It's what we need to be worrying about, not the treasury securities of a currency issuer that doesn't peg, have any foreign debt, and doesn't use a foreign currency. The national debt is absolutely necessary, it simply represents money the government has given the domestic private sector/foreign sector. It's earned money saved in the safest vehicle there is, bonds. Nothing to worry about. And I suppose I should ask, are we paying for the world war 2 "debt?" Are we throwing real resources into a time portal? We're idiots! We're worrying about something that benefits the private sector and the world, while we have real issues. Unemployment, education, the military..
So what does the government owe when it issues dollars? If you take a dollar to the Federal Reserve and demand to be paid, they will exchange it for another dollar. Federal Reserve notes are not obligations of any kind. That's the first place you go wrong.
The government will accept it's own currency in relation to taxation.
So what's your point? If government didn't force you to use the currency it issues, then the value would quickly drop to zero as people shifted all their transactions to other currencies, except for their payments to Uncle Sam, of course. They would be happy to pay Uncle Sam in now worthless Federal Reserve notes.
That isn't what I said. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to use government funny money is the only thing that "drives demand" for it.
Hey, reality isn't going to change, and the system we have now works quite well. I also like pissing off gold humpers.Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
Dude, that sounds like austrian shit. The money supply has to increase, get over it. I work less and earn more in relation to someone in the 1820's.
That's called armed robbery. It's truly pathetic to see you admit you defend armed robbery.
People also want it to pay taxes. Here is a lecture by Randall Wray where he talks about the history of taxes, which create a demand for a particular currency:You are indeed correct money is a means of exchange. You are indeed correct that money existed before the government monopolized issuing the currency known as the USD. You know why people want the worthless USD, just like the worthless euro? Taxation. After all, a government has to spend before it can tax its own currency. ...Huh? Ridiculous spending? Elaborate on that.Wrong and wrong. Money is a means of exchange. It existed before government took it over. A tax obligation has nothing to do with the value of money, other than the fact that governments want to have the power to debase the currency as a means to pay off their ridiculous spending and borrowing.What are you rambling about? Money is a way governments can obtain resources to do its duty. A tax obligation gives money value.
No, the only reason people want is the fact that they need a medium of exchange and government has outlawed any other mediums of exchange aside from the one it issues. Government has enforced a monopoly on currency so it can loot all of us whenever it wants.
Yes, the government is looting the currency that they spent before they began taxing.
They "want it" for the same reason they want Obamacare: because the government points a gun at your head and forces you to get it.
When the several sovereign states came together and established their union, they gave it a very small, specific set of powers. Can you show me in the constition the power to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand? I'd like to see the language you quote.Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"What utter horseshit. What you mean is that when government outlaws real money and forces you to use funny money, that creates a demand for funny money.
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
Dude, that sounds like austrian shit. The money supply has to increase, get over it. I work less and earn more in relation to someone in the 1820's.
Think about what you just said. The government only comes after you like that WHEN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.I find it funny, you're agreeing with the idea that taxation drives demand for the currency issued by the government, but you hate the idea of it.FRB: Federal Reserve liabilities - Credit and Liquidity Programs and the Balance SheetSo what does the government owe when it issues dollars? If you take a dollar to the Federal Reserve and demand to be paid, they will exchange it for another dollar. Federal Reserve notes are not obligations of any kind. That's the first place you go wrong.
The government will accept it's own currency in relation to taxation.
So what's your point? If government didn't force you to use the currency it issues, then the value would quickly drop to zero as people shifted all their transactions to other currencies, except for their payments to Uncle Sam, of course. They would be happy to pay Uncle Sam in now worthless Federal Reserve notes.
That isn't what I said. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to use government funny money is the only thing that "drives demand" for it.
Look, I don't care about the constitution in this discussion, I'm laying out how fiat money works. You can disagree with how reality is right now, and that's fine, it's good to express your opinion. But, we both know I'm correct.When the several sovereign states came together and established their union, they gave it a very small, specific set of powers. Can you show me in the constition the power to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand? I'd like to see the language you quote.Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
Dude, that sounds like austrian shit. The money supply has to increase, get over it. I work less and earn more in relation to someone in the 1820's.
People also want it to pay taxes. Here is a lecture by Randall Wray where he talks about the history of taxes, which create a demand for a particular currency:You are indeed correct money is a means of exchange. You are indeed correct that money existed before the government monopolized issuing the currency known as the USD. You know why people want the worthless USD, just like the worthless euro? Taxation. After all, a government has to spend before it can tax its own currency. ...Huh? Ridiculous spending? Elaborate on that.Wrong and wrong. Money is a means of exchange. It existed before government took it over. A tax obligation has nothing to do with the value of money, other than the fact that governments want to have the power to debase the currency as a means to pay off their ridiculous spending and borrowing.
No, the only reason people want is the fact that they need a medium of exchange and government has outlawed any other mediums of exchange aside from the one it issues. Government has enforced a monopoly on currency so it can loot all of us whenever it wants.
Yes, the government is looting the currency that they spent before they began taxing.
They "want it" for the same reason they want Obamacare: because the government points a gun at your head and forces you to get it.
Now you're understanding! Except, the IRS doesn't use literal guns.
Look, I don't care about the constitution in this discussion, I'm laying out how fiat money works. You can disagree with how reality is right now, and that's fine, it's good to express your opinion. But, we both know I'm correct.When the several sovereign states came together and established their union, they gave it a very small, specific set of powers. Can you show me in the constition the power to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand? I'd like to see the language you quote.Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
Dude, that sounds like austrian shit. The money supply has to increase, get over it. I work less and earn more in relation to someone in the 1820's.
People also want it to pay taxes. Here is a lecture by Randall Wray where he talks about the history of taxes, which create a demand for a particular currency:You are indeed correct money is a means of exchange. You are indeed correct that money existed before the government monopolized issuing the currency known as the USD. You know why people want the worthless USD, just like the worthless euro? Taxation. After all, a government has to spend before it can tax its own currency. ...Huh? Ridiculous spending? Elaborate on that.
No, the only reason people want is the fact that they need a medium of exchange and government has outlawed any other mediums of exchange aside from the one it issues. Government has enforced a monopoly on currency so it can loot all of us whenever it wants.
Yes, the government is looting the currency that they spent before they began taxing.
They "want it" for the same reason they want Obamacare: because the government points a gun at your head and forces you to get it.
Now you're understanding! Except, the IRS doesn't use literal guns.
Yes it does. Even if they don't do the dirty work themselves, they have other armed thugs to do it for them.
So the government doesn't come after you if you don't pay taxes? You are indeed correct that the government will come after people who try to create private currencies, because these people are a threat in the eyes of the government. Remember, the government wants us to keep using their currency.Think about what you just said. The government only comes after you like that WHEN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.I find it funny, you're agreeing with the idea that taxation drives demand for the currency issued by the government, but you hate the idea of it.FRB: Federal Reserve liabilities - Credit and Liquidity Programs and the Balance Sheet
The government will accept it's own currency in relation to taxation.
So what's your point? If government didn't force you to use the currency it issues, then the value would quickly drop to zero as people shifted all their transactions to other currencies, except for their payments to Uncle Sam, of course. They would be happy to pay Uncle Sam in now worthless Federal Reserve notes.
That isn't what I said. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to use government funny money is the only thing that "drives demand" for it.
Wrong. It comes after you if you attempt to use anything but Federal Reserve notes for currency. Many people have tried to create private currencies, and the Feds sent them to prison. It's against the law for anyone to issue a currency.
When the several sovereign states came together and established their union, they gave it a very small, specific set of powers. Can you show me in the constition the power to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand? I'd like to see the language you quote.Good. The government has to make sure the currency it issues is always in demand so they can spend for the public good.Gold is real money? I don't see people using gold to pay their mortgages or buy cars.Define "real money." So you're agreeing that the government, which enforces a taxation its its own currency, creates a demand for the "funny money?"
Gold is real money, and notes that can be exchanged for gold are real money. Everything else is worthless trash.
You can't exchange dollars for gold, not anymore, and the gold standard was a disaster.
That's because it's illegal to use gold as currency. People have tried it, and they are in federal prison now.
The gold standard was anything but a disaster. In 1913 before the Federal Reserve was created the gold backed dollar was worth more than it was worth in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified.
Dude, that sounds like austrian shit. The money supply has to increase, get over it. I work less and earn more in relation to someone in the 1820's.
