Zone1 Mormons who have apostatized or stopped going to Church

[BS Filter]

The works of faith does not of itself bring salvation without the grace of Jesus Christ. However, Jesus has told us in no uncertain terms that if we do not DO his will, which are good works, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And what is the will of the Father?

 

[BS Filter]

God has not put an exact number on it but you have to have the character of one who is ready and willing to do the will of God and actually make the effort to DO something.

So when do you know that you're saved?

 

[TruthNotBS]

No. The good works for salvation was on the cross. I can do nothing to save myself.

Joh 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

To exercise faith is the work of God. If you're truly saved according to the gospel of Christ, you will believe and follow (obey) Jesus and by doing that, He will "know you" (You will have a relationship with Him):

Joh 10:26-30 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (30) I and my Father are one.

Those who don't follow Jesus, aren't known by Jesus:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'" (Matthew 7:21-23, ESV)

Jesus "knows" (i.e. Has a relationship with), those who genuinely believe and trust in Him enough to follow him and reject lawlessness. This is clear from scripture. The problem is that Evangelicals like you believe that getting up from your chair and walking to the table where Jesus is sitting with your ticket to heaven, is "work salvation". They want Jesus to walk through the stadium and hand the ticket to everyone, while people sit there vegetating and waiting for the Lord.

There's indeed nothing we can do to merit or make God owe us eternal life. Even this mortal life is completely unmerited, how much more eternal life? But, even though God owes us nothing, He still expects us to live a certain way (At least walk to the table and grab your ticket to heaven, that's what he expects from you). If you have a briefcase with a million dollars, that you're going to give me as a gift and all you want from me is to walk to the table and grab the briefcase, am I earning those million dollars? Are you "paying me" a million bucks for getting off my derriere, walking to the table a few feet away, and grabbing my gift?

Jesus taught that His sheep, follow Him. He requires you to do the will of His Father and not live lawlessly. If you don't understand that, you're going to find yourself at the receiving end of "Depart from me, I never knew you". You don't want to be in that position.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are either saved or you aren't. That's what I believe.

That is so childish and predictable. Of course it’s one or the other. But, it’s how you get there that counts. Also, salvation has 3 degrees or levels. We have shown this to you in the Bible in 1Corinthians chapter 15.

 

[BS Filter]

Joh 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

To exercise faith is the work of God. If you're truly saved according to the gospel of Christ, you will believe and follow (obey) Jesus and by doing that, He will "know you" (You will have a relationship with Him):

Joh 10:26-30 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (30) I and my Father are one.

Those who don't follow Jesus, aren't known by Jesus:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'" (Matthew 7:21-23, ESV)

Jesus "knows" (i.e. Has a relationship with), those who genuinely believe and trust in Him enough to follow him and reject lawlessness. This is clear from scripture. The problem is that Evangelicals like you believe that getting up from your chair and walking to the table where Jesus is sitting with your ticket to heaven, is "work salvation". They want Jesus to walk through the stadium and hand the ticket to everyone, while people sit there vegetating and waiting for the Lord.

There's indeed nothing we can do to merit or make God owe us eternal life. Even this mortal life is completely unmerited, how much more eternal life? But, even though God owes us nothing, He still expects us to live a certain way (At least walk to the table and grab your ticket to heaven, that's what he expects from you). If you have a briefcase with a million dollars, that you're going to give me as a gift and all you want from me is to walk to the table and grab the briefcase, am I earning those million dollars? Are you "paying me" a million bucks for getting off my derriere, walking to the table a few feet away, and grabbing my gift?

Jesus taught that His sheep, follow Him. He requires you to do the will of His Father and not live lawlessly. If you don't understand that, you're going to find yourself at the receiving end of "Depart from me, I never knew you". You don't want to be in that position.

So if Belief in Jesus isn't enough, what must I do? Join your church?

 

[BS Filter]

That is so childish and predictable. Of course it’s one or the other. But, it’s how you get there that counts. Also, salvation has 3 degrees or levels. We have shown this to you in the Bible in 1Corinthians chapter 15.

That isn't speaking about salvation. You're confused.

 

[Cougarbear]

Scripture says I am saved by faith in Jesus, period. "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved". Tell me what work the thief on the cross did to earn his salvation.

No it doesn’t. It says we are saved by grace you fool.

 

[BS Filter]

No it doesn’t. It says we are saved by grace you fool.

Romans 10:13...For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

You just made an ass out of yourself.

 

[Cougarbear]

Romans 10:13...For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

You just made an ass out of yourself.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Whose the ass now?

 

[Cougarbear]

You haven't answered this question. That's fine. I totally understand why you won't.

No reason to move on until you admit there is a difference between doctrine and discourse. And that we don’t believe in discourse. We believe actual doctrine. And that you stop spreading lies that we believe in discourse.

 

[BS Filter]

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Whose the ass now?

You are. You just used Scripture to prove me correct. Read Romans 10:8-10 repeatedly until you finally get it. You can't earn a gift.

 

[BS Filter]

No reason to move on until you admit there is a difference between doctrine and discourse. And that we don’t believe in discourse. We believe actual doctrine. And that you stop spreading lies that we believe in discourse.

The lie is your religious cult, and you can't stop me from speaking.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are. You just used Scripture to prove me correct. Read Romans 10:8-10 repeatedly until you finally get it. You can't earn a gift.

What’s the first 6 words? For by grace ye are saved…

 

[TruthNotBS]

So if Belief in Jesus isn't enough, what must I do? Join your church?

Not necessarily, but you can't be lawless. This idea that one can do whatever they want after they pray "The sinner's prayer", is false and dangerous. Saving faith requires obedience and following Jesus. The sheep hear His voice and follow Him. That's what John 10 says, it doesn't say the sheep hear his voice and sit on their laurels doing nothing, asserting they're unconditionally saved and don't have to do anything. Jesus clearly requires his sheep to follow Him and obey His heavenly Father.

You can remain a Christian within your present denomination if you insist and don't feel led by the Holy Spirit to join the LDS, but you'd be missing out. The LDS has a lot to offer, as far as theology and fellowship. The restoration of the original gospel message and faith is the mission of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints. All of the theological objections presented by non-LDS Christian apologists are easily debunked with evidence from both the Bible and just common sense. Basic logic.

 

[Cougarbear]

The lie is your religious cult, and you can't stop me from speaking.

That’s right. I can’t stop you from lying. You will have to do that on your own. It’s called self-management. Really sad of what kind of person you have become through your faith.

 

[BS Filter]

What’s the first 6 words? For by grace ye are saved…

Correct. God's grace cannot be earned. God's grace is accessible by faith in Jesus. That's Scripture.

 

[BS Filter]

Not necessarily, but you can't be lawless. This idea that one can do whatever they want after they pray "The sinner's prayer", is false and dangerous. Saving faith requires obedience and following Jesus. The sheep hear His voice and follow Him. That's what John 10 says, it doesn't say the sheep hear his voice and sit on their laurels doing nothing, asserting they're unconditionally saved and don't have to do anything. Jesus clearly requires his sheep to follow Him and obey His heavenly Father.

You can remain a Christian within your present denomination if you insist and don't feel led by the Holy Spirit to join the LDS, but you'd be missing out. The LDS has a lot to offer, as far as theology and fellowship. The restoration of the original gospel message and faith is the mission of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints. All of the theological objections presented by non-LDS Christian apologists are easily debunked with evidence from both the Bible and just common sense. Basic logic.

I don't believe the lds is the true church. I believe the Church is all believers who only put their faith in Jesus, not an organization. There is no organization named in Scripture that is the true church. I believe Joseph Smith was a fraud and will never change my mind. My experience with the Holy Spirit will never allow me to accept the lds.

 

[BS Filter]

That’s right. I can’t stop you from lying. You will have to do that on your own. It’s called self-management. Really sad of what kind of person you have become through your faith.

I'm not the one who believes false prophets. I believe Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever. The Church is believers of Jesus. Period. You have nothing to offer me. I have Jesus and that's all I need.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Correct. God's grace cannot be earned. God's grace is accessible by faith in Jesus. That's Scripture.

God's grace can't be owed to you or paid to you for work you've done, that's correct. Nonetheless, God still has his requirements for salvation and that is that your faith bears fruit, in other words, you follow Him and do His Father's will. You can't be a lawless miscreant, committed to a carnal life, and fare well after death. Such people will suffer. Don't deceive yourself.

1Jn 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

Joh 15:1-14 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. (2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. (4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (7) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (8) Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. (9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (11) These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. (12) This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (13) Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (14) Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

How more clear does it have to be? Faith without works is dead. The only faith that saves is one that works, not a broken, useless faith. It's one that bears fruit.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I don't believe the lds is the true church. I believe the Church is all believers who only put their faith in Jesus, not an organization. There is no organization named in Scripture that is the true church. I believe Joseph Smith was a fraud and will never change my mind. My experience with the Holy Spirit will never allow me to accept the lds.

OK, well that's your opinion. The 1st-century church was established by the apostles and they applied a process by which they ordained priests and bishops..etc, you can read about that in the Bible, in the book of Acts and it's a historical fact. That system eventually became corrupted but God restored the church through the prophet Joseph Smith here in the United States almost 200 years ago. If you don't believe that, that's your prerogative. No hard feelings. You can be a good Christian where you are now, despite depriving yourself of the complete gospel and most recent divine revelation. We don't believe everyone burns in hell for not converting to our point of view.