Murderer Chauvin loses appeal

[Faun]

not even

Of course it was. Chauvin negligently employed MRT and the ME determined the manner of death was a homicide. That equals negligent homicide.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

It doesn't matter what the reason was. He already had a problem breathing. Putting him on his stomach with 3 grown men on him;

There wasn’t three grown men on him.

one of whom put more weight on Floyd's neck that he was trained not to do, inhibited his breathing to the point hf died.

I just watched the documentary The Fall of Minneapolis and as it turns out, the MRT actually IS a part of Minneapolis police training.

Chauvin’s mother presented two training manuals that belonged to her son and one of the manuals in fact includes this technique.

The chief of police lied on the stand when he said it was not part of their training.

Sure there was. The ME determined it was a homicide, not an accident and not a suicide.

Based on what? There was no forensic evidence to support homicide or asphyxiation.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Medical examiner: No one pressured him to include anything on George Floyd autopsy report

Defense attorneys at the trial of three former Minneapolis police officer charged with violating George Floyd's rights questioned the chief medical examiner who ruled George Floyd's death a homicide.

www.wbaltv.com

The chief medical examiner who deemed George Floyd's death a homicide testified Tuesday that nobody pressured him to include anything in his autopsy report...

I know what the ME said about not being pressured but I’m inclined to believe he was, considering what prosecutors and the D.C. ME said to him about his report.

Another thing that occurred to me was, if Floyd had been white, would there have been the same amount of anger, protests, proclamations by politicians and celebrities and media attention?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

all of what? it is not AUTOPSY EVIDENCE---the pathologist drew a conclusion that was not based on AUTOPSY EVIDENCE. Pathologists do PATHOLOGY-----not rumor

The jury decided. The appeal is denied. Justice has been served.

 

[XponentialChaos]

And if you ignore that prosecutors -who also know nothing of pathology - say the medical expert is wrong, that would be fucking hypocritical. It is not their job to tell the ME before the trial that his findings are wrong. It’s their job to question the ME during the trial.

The lawyers are just trying to get a favorable outcome for their client. How they go about that is up to them.

Does the lawyer know pathology?

Nobody is arguing that they do. I’m simply saying that they’re doing their job in the way they choose to.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Even if true, how can a lawyer tell an ME he is wrong if he has no knowledge of patholoy?

A lawyer will say the sky is green if it serves the interest of their client. I’m not sure what part of this you’re not getting. They’re just doing their job in a way they see fit. How they go about that is up to them, even if it’s a stupid argument from them. They’re still just doing their job.

 

[irosie91]

Of course it was. Chauvin negligently employed MRT and the ME determined the manner of death was a homicide. That equals negligent homicide.

OK----but I do not agree -----I am not saying more

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Your attention span is too short, and they made the key point in the first few minutes.

Then you should have told me this.

Knee to the Neck.

Circumstantial.

Circumstantial evidence is not considered unless there is concomitant forensic evidence to link the two.

It could also be $9,999,999.99. Point was, the FOP and donations for right wingers gave Chauvin's lawyers millions to work with, resources your average kid accused of holding up a liquor store doesn't get.

You still haven’t proven millions. This is all speculation on your part.

But if the crime is caught on video, it doesn't matter much in either case.

Irrelevant. You’re just pissed that a “murderer” had access to legal representation even though he paid for it with his union dues.

None of this is relevant to whether Chauvin is guilty of murder or not.

It shouldn't be, and for most unions, it isn't.

Opinion.

here's the problem. You look at any cop involved in one of these incidents of excessive force- Chauvin, Van Dyke, Wilson, Loehmann - you find a record that in most of the civilian world would have gotten you fired for poor conduct. Chauvin had been involved in a couple of officer-involved shootings and a previous case where he nearly choked a teenage boy to death. But thanks to the Union, he still had a job.

The union is there for employee rights and benefits. They have nothing to do with a precinct or department overlooking corruption and brutality in their ranks.

I think of the happy alternate universe, where there is no union, Chauvin gets fired the minute people realize he's a bad apple, and we avoid all the riots and huge payments.

Fuck unions. That’s not what this is about.

And here's the thing. 99% of cops are good guys. But they feel a need to protect the bad apples like Chauvin.

You don’t know that.

They shouldn't be there for cops, either. In fact, here's a modest solution to police brutality. Instead of the cities having to pay out the nine and ten figure settlements to victims of police brutality, the unions should pay those out of their pension funds. I'm betting they wouldn't be so keen to protect the bad apples after that point.

Opinion and irrelevant.

Wow? Really?

Yes.

Okay, let's look at the "officers being assassinated claim". Using "Officer Down", a Copaganda site not less.

The number of cops killed by gunfire actually DROPPED in 2020.

Now look up the number of ambushes and assassinations.

The total number of officers killed in the line of duty is only part of the picture. Active ambushes and assassinations where murdering officers was the premeditated intent went way up, even if incidental officer shootings went down.

This notion that we have swaths of cop being murdered by the bad guys, and this is why they need to put a knee on someone's neck for 9 minutes or pump 16 rounds into a kid who was trying to break into a truck is fucking absurd, and frankly I'm tired of hearing it.

Who the fuck says that?

Are you fucking retarded? I explained to you that Covid and the Recession already had people on edge.

Which has what to do with Trump?

Do you have some kind of learning disability, Corky?

Do you?

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Ghost of a Rider shows his face after having it smeared in his own nonsense.

Explain.

Trial testimony sealed Chauven's fate. The only question is "when does the next shank come?"

That’s it, I want to be a woke cop hater now.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

The lawyers are just trying to get a favorable outcome for their client. How they go about that is up to them.

Irrelevant. They still know nothing of pathology so they had no justification for criticizing the ME’s findings .

They did not criticize his findings based on pathology since they know nothing about it. They criticized it because it didn’t comport with their narrative.

Nobody is arguing that they do. I’m simply saying that they’re doing their job in the way they choose to.

Again, it’s not their job to tell the ME he is wrong before the trial, it’s their job to question the ME during trial.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

A lawyer will say the sky is green if it serves the interest of their client. I’m not sure what part of this you’re not getting. They’re just doing their job in a way they see fit. How they go about that is up to them, even if it’s a stupid argument from them. They’re still just doing their job.

Irrelevant. If a prosecutor thinks an ME is in error then they question him with other experts in attendence. Then they question the other experts about the ME’s testimony. Or they simply have other experts conduct their own autopsy.

What they don’t do is try to pressure the ME before trial to amend his autopsy report to their liking. That is not how it is supposed to work.

 

[Faun]

There wasn’t three grown men on him.

Oh? Were these 3 little kids on him then?

A new video appears to show 3 Minneapolis police officers pinning George Floyd to the ground while he says, 'I can't breathe'

The initial video showed only one officer kneeling on George Floyd. That officer was arrested and charged with third-degree murder on Friday.

www.insider.com

I highly recommend you learn about topics you speak about.

I just watched the documentary The Fall of Minneapolis and as it turns out, the MRT actually IS a part of Minneapolis police training.

Chauvin’s mother presented two training manuals that belonged to her son and one of the manuals in fact includes this technique.

It's true, the training manuals she showed do include information in applying MRT. However, that was not what Chauvin applied. MRT, according to the manual, is applied by placing one knee on the suspect's shoulder and the other knee on the suspect's lower back. It is also applied with the police officer leaning back with their legs bent at the hip so that their torso body weight is on their own legs, not on the suspect.

I too watched that movie and captured this screen shot from Chauvin's training manual that his mother held up. It shows what I just described...

But that is NOT what Chauvin did. Instead of putting a knee on Floyd's shoulder, he put it on Floyd's neck.

And instead of leaning back, he stood nearly straight up, legs barely bent at the hip, putting his torso weight on Floyd. There's even a photo where his left foot was off the ground, meaning his entire torso weight on that side of of his body was supported by his knee on Floyd's neck.

The chief of police lied on the stand when he said it was not part of their training.

That's not true. He was shown the photo above of Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck while Chauvin was standing upright on his knee; and when asked he was asked if that technique is in their training, he accurately answered, "it is not," since Chauvin did not apply MRT the way the training manual shows it should be applied. So no, he did not perjur himself. Neither did the other witness who described Chauvin's technique as "improvised."

Based on what? There was no forensic evidence to support homicide or asphyxiation.

Positional asphyxiation is difficult to determine and can be inferred in the absence of any other cause. In this case, there was no other cause detected.

 

[Faun]

I know what the ME said about not being pressured but I’m inclined to believe he was, considering what prosecutors and the D.C. ME said to him about his report.

Your opinion is noted. I disagree.

Another thing that occurred to me was, if Floyd had been white, would there have been the same amount of anger, protests, proclamations by politicians and celebrities and media attention?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

No.

 

[Faun]

OK----but I do not agree -----I am not saying more

That's fine; but take note of the difference in how it was applied between Chauvin's training manual and Chauvin's technique...

 

[XponentialChaos]

They did not criticize his findings based on pathology since they know nothing about it. They criticized it because it didn’t comport with their narrative.

Of course. We agree that an attorney knows nothing about pathology and is simply working with the interests of their clients in mind. I just don’t have a problem with that and you do apparently.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

I have. Quote the parts you think support your argument.

I’m not doing the work for you. I already posted the links and even quoted the paragraph that supports my claim.

You know where it is: Post #612.

So you're imagining this evidence?

Irrelevant.

Which isn't evidence that criticism affected the final result.

Didn’t say it did. My point is that he was pressured by prosecutors to add neck compression.

Criticism could of been avoided all together if the prosecutor, who was later replaced by Ellison, hadn't included preliminary findings.

It wasn’t a preliminary report; it just hadn’t been officially published yet.

Because you don't like me pointing out that the source from which all the criticism sprang was a replaced prosecutor and not the M.E.

If neck compression was left in the report anyway, why is this relevant?

I have facts. You have your imagination.

Irrelevant. I never disputed any facts.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Oh? Were these 3 little kids on him then?

I said there were not three men ON him. There were three men trying to hold him down because he refused to comply with commands but ultimately, Chauvin was the only only one on him.

A new video appears to show 3 Minneapolis police officers pinning George Floyd to the ground while he says, 'I can't breathe'

The initial video showed only one officer kneeling on George Floyd. That officer was arrested and charged with third-degree murder on Friday.

www.insider.com

I highly recommend you learn about topics you speak about.

The article says three men were pinning him to the ground. It does not say they were “on” him.

It's true, the training manuals she showed do include information in applying MRT. However, that was not what Chauvin applied. MRT, according to the manual, is applied by placing one knee on the suspect's shoulder and the other knee on the suspect's lower back. It is also applied with the police officer leaning back with their legs bent at the hip so that their torso body weight is on their own legs, not on the suspect.

It should be noted here that the judge would not allow other photos or video from any other angle or perspective than the one we’re all familiar with. Why? Fuck if I know. But you have to wonder if that tableau would look as damning from behind.

Other angles may or may not have changed anything but you have to wonder why the judge disallowed them in the first place.

I too watched that movie and captured this screen shot from Chauvin's training manual that his mother held up. It shows what I just described...

But that is NOT what Chauvin did. Instead of putting a knee on Floyd's shoulder, he put it on Floyd's neck.

If true, you have to wonder why the Chief of Police lied on the stand that this technique was not in the training when it actually was?

Do you see what I’m getting at here? Even if Chauvin is guilty, the judge is guilty of bias; the prosecution pressured an ME to alter his autopsy report to fit their agenda and a witness for the prosecution is maybe guilty of perjury.

And instead of leaning back, he stood nearly straight up, legs barely bent at the hip, putting his torso weight on Floyd. There's even a photo where his left foot was off the ground, meaning his entire torso weight on that side of of his body was supported by his knee on Floyd's neck.

That's not true. He was shown the photo above of Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck while Chauvin was standing upright on his knee; and when asked he was asked if that technique is in their training, he accurately answered, "it is not," since Chauvin did not apply MRT the way the training manual shows it should be applied. So no, he did not perjur himself. Neither did the other witness who described Chauvin's technique as "improvised."

They were looking at it from one angle. Why? Because the judge would not allow any other image or perspective as evidence.

Positional asphyxiation is difficult to determine and can be inferred in the absence of any other cause. In this case, there was no other cause detected.

Yes there was: a near fatal level of drugs and a serious heart condition.

Everybody just waves that away as if it’s nothing. It is anything but. It very could be the catalyst that killed him and everybody ignores it.

If you saw the video, can you explain why Floyd went into a panic almost from the start and resisted so strenuously?

I can’t. I can’t for the life of me understand why he behaved the way did if not for the drugs. I also have to seriously consider that his panic caused a heart attack.

 

[Curried Goats]

I’m not doing the work for you. I already posted the links and even quoted the paragraph that supports my claim.

You know where it is: Post #612.


Irrelevant.

Whether your argument is real or make believe is entirely relevant.

Didn’t say it did. My point is that he was pressured by prosecutors to add neck compression.

Except he wasn't. There was criticism from citizens who didn't like the impression the prosecutor painted from an unfinished autopsy.

It wasn’t a preliminary report; it just hadn’t been officially published yet.

It hadn't been competed yet you moron. The charging document admits the autopsy is ongoing.

If neck compression was left in the report anyway, why is this relevant?

What's relevant is that it was never left out, clown.

Irrelevant. I never disputed any facts.

Because you've been too busy sharing with us your fantasy of what actually happened.

 

[Faun]

I said there were not three men ON him. There were three men trying to hold him down because he refused to comply with commands but ultimately, Chauvin was the only only one on him.

The article says three men were pinning him to the ground. It does not say they were “on” him.

wtf?? Did you not see that picture of the 3 of them kneeling on him? Did you not click on the video? They were "pinning" him down by being on him.

If true, you have to wonder why the Chief of Police lied on the stand that this technique was not in the training when it actually was?

Again, that's not true. The chief of police did not lie. He was asked if what Chauvin was doing was in their training manual and he answered honestly that it was not. And it wasn't. What Chauvin was doing was NOT MRT. As I showed you from the training manual, there's no knee on the neck and the officer does not stand upright on their knees.

the prosecution pressured an ME to alter his autopsy report to fit their agenda and a witness for the prosecution is maybe guilty of perjury.

That's your opinion. I disagree. I don't see perjury and I believe the ME when he said no one pressured him.

Yes there was: a near fatal level of drugs and a serious heart condition.

Everybody just waves that away as if it’s nothing. It is anything but. It very could be the catalyst that killed him and everybody ignores it.

There was no forensic evidence of an overdose. The cardiac arrest was the result of positional asphyxiation of being pinned down like that for an unreasonable length of time.

If you saw the video, can you explain why Floyd went into a panic almost from the start and resisted so strenuously?

I can’t. I can’t for the life of me understand why he behaved the way did if not for the drugs. I also have to seriously consider that his panic caused a heart attack.

Prolly cause he didn't want to be arrested.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

This is false: "Circumstantial evidence is not considered unless there is concomitant forensic evidence to link the two."

Bing AI: Circumstantial evidence does not necessarily require accompanying forensic evidence. Circumstantial evidence is indirect evidence that does not, on its face, prove a fact in issue but gives rise to a logical inference that the fact exists12. It requires drawing additional reasonable inferences in order to support the claim1.