Muslim baker...make me a Mohammed cake; Muslim hotel owner...host my pork festival; Can they refuse?

[bucs90]

My question is

What in the history of our nation leads any idiot to believe that the founding fathers intended to create a country where people weren't allowed to discriminate?

This, my friends, is supposed to be one of our moderate, fair-minded nutters. How about that!

Well...hes right. Are we land of the free...or not?

Turning down business is a dumb business decision in my opinion. But...they have a right to refuse service to any EVENT they dont want to participate in.

A gay WEDDING is an event...not a person. Just like a Muslim hotel owner should be able to refuse to host a pork and Koran desecration festival. Even if gay black men are the festival organizers. Right?

 

[rightwinger]

We need another ten or fifteen threads on this.

Was this on Rush Limbaugh today?

 

[Ravi]

Pork festival would likely have to be allowed. I doubt the cake would have to be made. You can see the difference, right?

No, he can't see it. He isn't very bright.

But the pork festival could also be disallowed because there is no discrimination of any nature by turning down a pork festival.

Theres no discriminating by turning down a gay wedding. Its not the people being turned down...its the event. Just like the pork festival.

What if it was a gay black man having the festival? And the Muslim refused it...based on religious beliefs? Would it be discriminating then?

If it was a pork festival, I don't care who wanted to have it, if the hotel is halal they don't allow pork in their hotel. If it isn't halal they would more than likely accommodate. No one has a right to eat pork for Christ sake.

Wrong. You absolutely have a right to eat pork.

What you do NOT have a right to do is force another person to let you eat pork in their business.

Yes, thank you. That is what I meant.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

A Christian being offended or inhibited from fashioning a cake with an image of a homosexual couple upon it, utilizing his religion's bans upon homosexuality as the basis for his refusal?

Again, it is my understanding that in the cases where bakers or others have been sued it is for refusing to sell a product to a gay couple that they would sell to a straight couple.

So if a gay couple orders a three tier wedding cake out of the baker's portfolio it would not be legal to refuse to sell to them because of their sexual orientation.

I will ask, once again, why the fuck would anyone want to force a business who doesn't want their business to take their money?

That alone proves that it is nothing but an agenda. No one should lose rights (IE the right to do business with whomever they wish) over an agenda

 

[Kondor3]

A Christian being offended or inhibited from fashioning a cake with an image of a homosexual couple upon it, utilizing his religion's bans upon homosexuality as the basis for his refusal?

Again, it is my understanding that in the cases where bakers or others have been sued it is for refusing to sell a product to a gay couple that they would sell to a straight couple.

So if a gay couple orders a three tier wedding cake out of the baker's portfolio it would not be legal to refuse to sell to them because of their sexual orientation.

You only quoted half the post...

Please address the post in its entirety...

If someone orders a cake from a Muslim baker, with the image of the prophet Muhammed upon it, is the baker obliged to accommodate?

 

[bucs90]

So...a Muslim baker should be forced to cater desserts for a black mans barbeque pork festival even if they dont believe in it??? Saying no would discriminate against the black man.

 

[ogibillm]

My question is

What in the history of our nation leads any idiot to believe that the founding fathers intended to create a country where people weren't allowed to discriminate?

This, my friends, is supposed to be one of our moderate, fair-minded nutters. How about that!

Well...hes right. Are we land of the free...or not?

Turning down business is a dumb business decision in my opinion. But...they have a right to refuse service to any EVENT they dont want to participate in.

A gay WEDDING is an event...not a person. Just like a Muslim hotel owner should be able to refuse to host a pork and Koran desecration festival. Even if gay black men are the festival organizers. Right?

I remember when my baker delivered the cake, performed the ceremony, gave a toast, and danced with the grandparents...

 

[Syriusly]

Yep. I live in South Carolina. ..one of the only other states with such a law...which would allow the Muslim to say no based on religion.


But...I suggest folks in more liberal areas like California or New York....host a religious party cecelebrating diversity!

Find a Muslim owned bakery. Order a Jesus cake and a Buddah cake and especially a big beautiful prophet Mohammed cake!

Slice those delicious caricature cakes up and celebrate.

Im sure the tolerant liberals would agree that the Muslim baker cannot discriminate and will make me those cakes...including the Mohammed cake. His turban will.be cream cheese icing...yum...im slicing that head off first!

1) First find a Muslim baker who as part of his business decorates cakes with images on them (remember you cannot demand that a business provide a service or good it normally does not provide)
2) Then stand back and watch in dismay as the law does not apply to your scenario. The law doesn't say you have a right to be an idiot or a bigot- only that you provide your customary service regardless of race, religion, country of origin and in some places- sexual orientation.
3) Now- if that Muslim bakery refused to sell you a cake because you asked him to write "Jesus is King" on it- then you would have a case- and I would support your discrimination case against him.

 

[ogibillm]

A Christian being offended or inhibited from fashioning a cake with an image of a homosexual couple upon it, utilizing his religion's bans upon homosexuality as the basis for his refusal?

Again, it is my understanding that in the cases where bakers or others have been sued it is for refusing to sell a product to a gay couple that they would sell to a straight couple.

So if a gay couple orders a three tier wedding cake out of the baker's portfolio it would not be legal to refuse to sell to them because of their sexual orientation.

You only quoted half the post...

Please address the post in its entirety...

If someone orders a cake from a Muslim baker, with the image of the prophet Muhammed upon it, is the baker obliged to accommodate?

Probably not. that wouldn't be a cake they would sell to anybody.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

My question is

What in the history of our nation leads any idiot to believe that the founding fathers intended to create a country where people weren't allowed to discriminate?

This, my friends, is supposed to be one of our moderate, fair-minded nutters. How about that!

Well...hes right. Are we land of the free...or not?

Turning down business is a dumb business decision in my opinion. But...they have a right to refuse service to any EVENT they dont want to participate in.

A gay WEDDING is an event...not a person. Just like a Muslim hotel owner should be able to refuse to host a pork and Koran desecration festival. Even if gay black men are the festival organizers. Right?

I remember when my baker delivered the cake, performed the ceremony, gave a toast, and danced with the grandparents...

ours did to, pretty standard for a formal wedding.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Yep. I live in South Carolina. ..one of the only other states with such a law...which would allow the Muslim to say no based on religion.


But...I suggest folks in more liberal areas like California or New York....host a religious party cecelebrating diversity!

Find a Muslim owned bakery. Order a Jesus cake and a Buddah cake and especially a big beautiful prophet Mohammed cake!

Slice those delicious caricature cakes up and celebrate.

Im sure the tolerant liberals would agree that the Muslim baker cannot discriminate and will make me those cakes...including the Mohammed cake. His turban will.be cream cheese icing...yum...im slicing that head off first!

1) First find a Muslim baker who as part of his business decorates cakes with images on them (remember you cannot demand that a business provide a service or good it normally does not provide)
2) Then stand back and watch in dismay as the law does not apply to your scenario. The law doesn't say you have a right to be an idiot or a bigot- only that you provide your customary service regardless of race, religion, country of origin and in some places- sexual orientation.
3) Now- if that Muslim bakery refused to sell you a cake because you asked him to write "Jesus is King" on it- then you would have a case- and I would support your discrimination case against him.

ALL bakeries which make custom cakes create custom imaged cakes Jesus talk about stretching.

 

[Syriusly]

So...a Muslim baker should be forced to cater desserts for a black mans barbeque pork festival even if they dont believe in it??? Saying no would discriminate against the black man.

If he is refusing to provide the cake because the man is black- then it is discrimination.

If he is refusing to provide the cake because he doesn't want to be around pork- then that is not covered by the law.

This is not that complicated.

Here is one example of such a law

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

Nothing about pork there.

 

[ogibillm]

So...a Muslim baker should be forced to cater desserts for a black mans barbeque pork festival even if they dont believe in it??? Saying no would discriminate against the black man.

well... no. See, they may decide to pass on the event because they don't care to be around barbecue - but then that isn't discriminating against the man for his race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Good questions imo

But an easy one to answer. NO!

 

[HenryBHough]

So this acolyte of the Algore Temple of Global Warming has a flat tire on his SUV on the way to choir practice.

I run a tire shop.

He calls me to fix his flat but I see his "Save the Planet" propaganda plastered all over the vehicle and I tell him to fix his own damn tire - 'cause to help him is against my religion.

Now what?

 

[Ravi]

A Christian being offended or inhibited from fashioning a cake with an image of a homosexual couple upon it, utilizing his religion's bans upon homosexuality as the basis for his refusal?

Again, it is my understanding that in the cases where bakers or others have been sued it is for refusing to sell a product to a gay couple that they would sell to a straight couple.

So if a gay couple orders a three tier wedding cake out of the baker's portfolio it would not be legal to refuse to sell to them because of their sexual orientation.

You only quoted half the post...

Please address the post in its entirety...

If someone orders a cake from a Muslim baker, with the image of the prophet Muhammed upon it, is the baker obliged to accommodate?

Only if it is a product they offer. JESUS CHRIST you people are morons.

 

[Ravi]

So...a Muslim baker should be forced to cater desserts for a black mans barbeque pork festival even if they dont believe in it??? Saying no would discriminate against the black man.

Public Accommodation law says yes.

 

[Syriusly]

Yep. I live in South Carolina. ..one of the only other states with such a law...which would allow the Muslim to say no based on religion.


But...I suggest folks in more liberal areas like California or New York....host a religious party cecelebrating diversity!

Find a Muslim owned bakery. Order a Jesus cake and a Buddah cake and especially a big beautiful prophet Mohammed cake!

Slice those delicious caricature cakes up and celebrate.

Im sure the tolerant liberals would agree that the Muslim baker cannot discriminate and will make me those cakes...including the Mohammed cake. His turban will.be cream cheese icing...yum...im slicing that head off first!

1) First find a Muslim baker who as part of his business decorates cakes with images on them (remember you cannot demand that a business provide a service or good it normally does not provide)
2) Then stand back and watch in dismay as the law does not apply to your scenario. The law doesn't say you have a right to be an idiot or a bigot- only that you provide your customary service regardless of race, religion, country of origin and in some places- sexual orientation.
3) Now- if that Muslim bakery refused to sell you a cake because you asked him to write "Jesus is King" on it- then you would have a case- and I would support your discrimination case against him.

ALL bakeries which make custom cakes create custom imaged cakes Jesus talk about stretching.

Feel free to show me a Muslim bakery which does make custom cakes with images on them.

I mean all of you are so proud of your flawed analogy- you must be able to find an example- right?

LOL......

Meanwhile- if that Muslim bakery refused to sell you a cake because you asked him to write "Jesus is King" on it- then you would have a case- and I would support your discrimination case against him

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

So...a Muslim baker should be forced to cater desserts for a black mans barbeque pork festival even if they dont believe in it??? Saying no would discriminate against the black man.

If he is refusing to provide the cake because the man is black- then it is discrimination.

If he is refusing to provide the cake because he doesn't want to be around pork- then that is not covered by the law.

This is not that complicated.

Here is one example of such a law

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

Nothing about pork there.

Exactly as I have stated before. these laws only protect certain groups from discrimination, which means they give unequal protection of the law, which means they violate the equal protection of the 14th Amendment to the COTUS.

Thanks for confirming that you agree.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Yep. I live in South Carolina. ..one of the only other states with such a law...which would allow the Muslim to say no based on religion.


But...I suggest folks in more liberal areas like California or New York....host a religious party cecelebrating diversity!

Find a Muslim owned bakery. Order a Jesus cake and a Buddah cake and especially a big beautiful prophet Mohammed cake!

Slice those delicious caricature cakes up and celebrate.

Im sure the tolerant liberals would agree that the Muslim baker cannot discriminate and will make me those cakes...including the Mohammed cake. His turban will.be cream cheese icing...yum...im slicing that head off first!

1) First find a Muslim baker who as part of his business decorates cakes with images on them (remember you cannot demand that a business provide a service or good it normally does not provide)
2) Then stand back and watch in dismay as the law does not apply to your scenario. The law doesn't say you have a right to be an idiot or a bigot- only that you provide your customary service regardless of race, religion, country of origin and in some places- sexual orientation.
3) Now- if that Muslim bakery refused to sell you a cake because you asked him to write "Jesus is King" on it- then you would have a case- and I would support your discrimination case against him.

ALL bakeries which make custom cakes create custom imaged cakes Jesus talk about stretching.

Feel free to show me a Muslim bakery which does make custom cakes with images on them.

I mean all of you are so proud of your flawed analogy- you must be able to find an example- right?

LOL......

Meanwhile- if that Muslim bakery refused to sell you a cake because you asked him to write "Jesus is King" on it- then you would have a case- and I would support your discrimination case against him

And you would still be wrong.

A man ought be free to tell ANY customer to get out of HIS business for ANY reason, or no reason at all. It's HIS business.