My conclusion on the Arizona law now up for signing/veto

[DiamondDave]

After listening to and reading about this bill I have come to what will likely be an unpopular opinion among the right.

This bill seems to me that rather than protecting the rights of Americans it targets others for public persecution. Lifting christians while pushing others down. We don't need laws in this country that pit one class of citizen against another.
I've always said gays don't need or deserve special rights or attention and neither do christians. A law protecting the targeting of "certain" citizens should scare all of us.

I do think businesses should be able to conduct themselves as they see fit, within the law, and let the public decide if they deserve to be patronized.

I would essentially agree. Using religion as the basis of the law undermines it completely. Based on property rights, anybody should have the right to associate, or not, with whomever they like on their own property. Religion has nothing to do with it.

I agree. The right to refuse service should apply equally to everyone.

When based on action, choice, or behavior, yes... If I choose not to have you shopping in my store because you are wearing feather boas and 47 facial piercings and you are there to make a scene, so be it.. it is my choice in my store or my business and if it hurts my business, so be it... it is the result of the freedom to act that is applauded in cases that fit one agenda, but cursed when they fit another... I'd still rather have the freedom than the fist of government taking it away on a whim

 

[DiamondDave]

My take is, you all who don't like the law, keep your nose's out of it and DON'T MOVE THERE

How damn smug of people to think they have a right to Interfere in what a States LAWS are?

We've seen many of them on this board...

they feel they have a right and (threaten and blackmail you, like the NFL is doing)...this whole thing with homosexuals has gone beyond sick and is being used to TEAR US APART as a country

wake up

So you'd be OK with a state having a law that allows businesses to discriminate against straight people.

If there is a rabid gay photographer who is disgusted by straight weddings.. so be it.. his or her choice...
If you have a Jew that does not want to cater a KKK event.. so be it
If you have a Mennonite that does not want to have a porno filmed in his barn that is up for rent... so be it
If you have an abuse victim that does not want to cover an abuse trial.. so be it
If you have a person who is scared of open water refuse to provide their services on a cruise.. so be it

Choice is choice.. freedom matters... and your freedom to want something does not trump someone else's freedom not to be part of it

 

[The Rabbi]

That is true.

Previous administrations sat on the sidelines while guys in white robes thumped their Bibles and burned crosses.

Ahhh .... the good ol' days, huh?

And just how stupid are you again?

Not quite stupid enough to buy into your crap - sucks for you, huh?

As usual you're wrong.

 

[peach174]

After listening to and reading about this bill I have come to what will likely be an unpopular opinion among the right.

This bill seems to me that rather than protecting the rights of Americans it targets others for public persecution. Lifting christians while pushing others down. We don't need laws in this country that pit one class of citizen against another.
I've always said gays don't need or deserve special rights or attention and neither do christians. A law protecting the targeting of "certain" citizens should scare all of us.

I do think businesses should be able to conduct themselves as they see fit, within the law, and let the public decide if they deserve to be patronized.

You understand the law was passed in response to court cases where bakeries etc were forced to do business with people in circumstances that violated their own beliefs, right? Not passing the law creates privileged classes, in this case homos, in addition to the other classes of race, age, religion, and sex.

The law was passed so that discrimination against gays would be legal. Nothing more, nothing less. No one is fooled about its true aim.

The law was passed to protect businesses from being sued.
Why should Gay's have the right to sue them because of their religious beliefs and to possibly put them out of business?
That is minority tyranny.
Gay's have just as much rights to open their own bakeries and to refuse service as they see fit and also not to be sued over it.

Religious people have just as much rights as Gay's do.
This law has nothing to do with discrimination.

 

[nodoginnafight]

And just how stupid are you again?

Not quite stupid enough to buy into your crap - sucks for you, huh?

As usual you're wrong.

you mean I AM buying into your crap????

Wow, thanks for telling me, cause I was so sure that I wasn't.

 

[nodoginnafight]

This bill (or the rejection of this bill) doesn't do nearly as much as the people who are arguing over it apparently believe.

In Arizona, you can still fire someone because they are gay. You can look 'em in the eye and say, "I hate fags - you're outta here."

So if this bill is defeated it is not really much of a victory for the gay community.

 

[peach174]

The bill;
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/adopted/1062yarbrough1042.pdf

Summary of the bill
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/summary/h.sb1062_02-21-14_astransmittedtogovernor.pdf

 

[J.E.D]

My take is, you all who don't like the law, keep your nose's out of it and DON'T MOVE THERE

How damn smug of people to think they have a right to Interfere in what a States LAWS are?

We've seen many of them on this board...

they feel they have a right and (threaten and blackmail you, like the NFL is doing)...this whole thing with homosexuals has gone beyond sick and is being used to TEAR US APART as a country

wake up

So you'd be OK with a state having a law that allows businesses to discriminate against straight people.

If there is a rabid gay photographer who is disgusted by straight weddings.. so be it.. his or her choice...
If you have a Jew that does not want to cater a KKK event.. so be it
If you have a Mennonite that does not want to have a porno filmed in his barn that is up for rent... so be it
If you have an abuse victim that does not want to cover an abuse trial.. so be it
If you have a person who is scared of open water refuse to provide their services on a cruise.. so be it

Choice is choice.. freedom matters... and your freedom to want something does not trump someone else's freedom not to be part of it

So you'd be OK with a state having a law that allows businesses to discriminate against straight people.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you'd be OK with a state having a law that allows businesses to discriminate against straight people.

If there is a rabid gay photographer who is disgusted by straight weddings.. so be it.. his or her choice...
If you have a Jew that does not want to cater a KKK event.. so be it
If you have a Mennonite that does not want to have a porno filmed in his barn that is up for rent... so be it
If you have an abuse victim that does not want to cover an abuse trial.. so be it
If you have a person who is scared of open water refuse to provide their services on a cruise.. so be it

Choice is choice.. freedom matters... and your freedom to want something does not trump someone else's freedom not to be part of it

So you'd be OK with a state having a law that allows businesses to discriminate against straight people.

Why wouldnt he?
Of course what business in their right mind would want to do that? They wouldnt be around very long if they did.

 

[The T]

If there is a rabid gay photographer who is disgusted by straight weddings.. so be it.. his or her choice...
If you have a Jew that does not want to cater a KKK event.. so be it
If you have a Mennonite that does not want to have a porno filmed in his barn that is up for rent... so be it
If you have an abuse victim that does not want to cover an abuse trial.. so be it
If you have a person who is scared of open water refuse to provide their services on a cruise.. so be it

Choice is choice.. freedom matters... and your freedom to want something does not trump someone else's freedom not to be part of it

So you'd be OK with a state having a law that allows businesses to discriminate against straight people.

Why wouldnt he?
Of course what business in their right mind would want to do that? They wouldnt be around very long if they did.

And a private business decision that Government needs to keep their noses out of.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Public Accommodation simply invalidates the reactionary far right and social cons' nonsense arguments.

Now if one can operate by private appointment without using public outlets for advertising one's services, then an argument for selective service can be made.

 

[Dragonlady]

Under this bill, a Muslim store owner could refuse service to a Christian family because the wife is not veiled.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Perhaps, Gramps, you should have read this brief by some of the more prominent legal scholars in America:

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/SB1062LegalProfsLetter.pdf

 

[dblack]

Under this bill, a Muslim store owner could refuse service to a Christian family because the wife is not veiled.

Exactly. Do you see any reason he should be forced to cater to them?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Under this bill, a Muslim store owner could refuse service to a Christian family because the wife is not veiled.

Exactly. Do you see any reason he should be forced to cater to them?

Yep. We call it the Bottom Line. An interesting concept. You should read up on it sometime?

 

[The Rabbi]

Under this bill, a Muslim store owner could refuse service to a Christian family because the wife is not veiled.

Exactly. Do you see any reason he should be forced to cater to them?

This is typical of libs. If gov't doesn't mandate it, then it won't happen. Yes, of course the Muslim could refuse service. But he won't. Why? He's in business to make money. He doesnt make money by refusing service on a broad basis. It is the power of the marketplace, not the power of gov't, that pushes towards equality.
Even in the pre-Civil Rights days when some stores actually did bar black customers, others happily sold to them. It wasnt like blacks were starving to death naked because no one would sell them food and clothing.

 

[Bfgrn]

My take is, you all who don't like the law, keep your nose's out of it and DON'T MOVE THERE

How damn smug of people to think they have a right to Interfere in what a States LAWS are?

We've seen many of them on this board...

they feel they have a right and (threaten and blackmail you, like the NFL is doing)...this whole thing with homosexuals has gone beyond sick and is being used to TEAR US APART as a country

wake up

Here is a better idea, why don't you and your ilk move to a place that supports your hatred of gays and liberals?

Jesus used physical force and beat the crap out of people that offended him, would you prefer that approach?

No, we're defending THE RIGHT to discriminate.

 

[dblack]

Here is a better idea, why don't you and your ilk move to a place that supports your hatred of gays and liberals?

I bet you'd be surprised how many of our "ilk" have no such hatred, how many of us have gay friends and relatives and wish nothing but the best for them. But we're committed to defending freedom, even the freedom of people with unpopular ideas and preferences. Liberals used to remember that. I suppose some still do. How about you?

 

[Bfgrn]

Here is a better idea, why don't you and your ilk move to a place that supports your hatred of gays and liberals?

I bet you'd be surprised how many of our "ilk" have no such hatred, how many of us have gay friends and relatives and wish nothing but the best for them. But we're committed to defending freedom, even the freedom of people with unpopular ideas and preferences. Liberals used to remember that. I suppose some still do. How about you?

Oh, another way of saying the very SAME thing...

No, we're defending THE RIGHT to discriminate.

Maybe we should go back to defending Jim Crow laws too?

 

[dblack]

Here is a better idea, why don't you and your ilk move to a place that supports your hatred of gays and liberals?

I bet you'd be surprised how many of our "ilk" have no such hatred, how many of us have gay friends and relatives and wish nothing but the best for them. But we're committed to defending freedom, even the freedom of people with unpopular ideas and preferences. Liberals used to remember that. I suppose some still do. How about you?

Oh, another way of saying the very SAME thing...

No, we're defending THE RIGHT to discriminate.

Maybe we should go back to defending Jim Crow laws too?

What???