My experience/views on black people... am I a racist?

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I actually DO know the difference between "documented history" and propaganda..... it's why I don't waste my time or money on crap like that movie.

I'm currently reading Empire of The Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne....
. I'm not going to confuse that with Dances with Wolves.

Did you watch or believe the movie the Red Tails? Or do you consider that a fairy tale also?

 

[Bruce Daniels]

OTHER RACES RARELY COMPLAIN- BLACKS 24/7. Its a CULTURE thing with black people. Single moms, abortion, crime, jail, dropping out, terrible inner city generational violence etc. NOT Whitey's fault.

Right, and black people have absolutely no reason to complain.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Well, I did go to school, study law, graduated, and done several decades working in it. I have written a couple of contracts that could not be broken when challenged in court. So, my answer would be, I know a little about it.

Isn't indentured servitude a contract?

Irrelevant counselor. All this was asked and answered.

"An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work without pay for the owner of the indenture for a period of time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a specific payment or other benefit (such as transportation to a new place), or to meet a legal obligation, such as debt bondage. On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land. Indentured servitude was often brutal, with a high percentage[vague] of servants dying prior to the expiration of their indentures. In many countries, systems of indentured labor have now been outlawed, and are banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery ."

Indentured servitude - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WHAT PART OF THAT WHERE INDENTURED SERVITUDE IS BANNED AS A FORM OF SLAVERY WENT OVER YOUR HEAD?

I didn't ask for an explanation, I simply asked if it is not a contract.

Yeah, we know the point you're trying to make, cabron. You just didn't like the answer because it was honest. You want to make life look like only the blacks know suffering, slavery, and pain. Well, surprise, you don't have a monopoly on it. What makes you racist is you want whites to be held accountable because it was slavery after all... What about the black POS that sold your ancestors into slavery (presupposing you can trace your lineage back to slavery - which is probably not likely)????

You know for an attorney, you're not very bright.

My question required a simple yes or no that thus far you have danced around by bringing up a lot of other information that on it's face looks as if it's relevent to the topic when it's not and/or supports the point you're trying to make when it doesn't. It's like when someone is taking a test and they don't know the answer to one of the questions and instead of leaving it blank or answering it incorrectly they write in circles hoping that somewhere in their word salad, they might happen upon something that is close enough to the correct answer that they'll receive at least partial credit.

And you really should know better as an attorney to think that by abstracting a comment you can avoid being held liable for your remarks. I am not an asshole but I damn sure know HOW to be one so I'd appreciate it if you would refrain in the future from calling me by anything other than my moniker used here. Or simply refrain from engaging in the nasty comments with/to/about me period. Either will work for me.

So again, I will ask you since you claim to have a law degree and are familiar with contract law, if indentured servitude is not a contract. I'm not asking if it's an enforceable contract, or one that was null and void at the point of it's execution because one or more or all of the parties to it had no intentions of ever honoring it's terms, simply is it a contract or not. YES or NO?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Well, I did go to school, study law, graduated, and done several decades working in it. I have written a couple of contracts that could not be broken when challenged in court. So, my answer would be, I know a little about it.

Isn't indentured servitude a contract?

Irrelevant counselor. All this was asked and answered.

"An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work without pay for the owner of the indenture for a period of time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a specific payment or other benefit (such as transportation to a new place), or to meet a legal obligation, such as debt bondage. On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land. Indentured servitude was often brutal, with a high percentage[vague] of servants dying prior to the expiration of their indentures. In many countries, systems of indentured labor have now been outlawed, and are banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery ."

Indentured servitude - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WHAT PART OF THAT WHERE INDENTURED SERVITUDE IS BANNED AS A FORM OF SLAVERY WENT OVER YOUR HEAD?

I didn't ask for an explanation, I simply asked if it is not a contract.

Yeah, we know the point you're trying to make, cabron. You just didn't like the answer because it was honest. You want to make life look like only the blacks know suffering, slavery, and pain. Well, surprise, you don't have a monopoly on it. What makes you racist is you want whites to be held accountable because it was slavery after all... What about the black POS that sold your ancestors into slavery (presupposing you can trace your lineage back to slavery - which is probably not likely)????

I never saw the image that you posted above which indicates that it is a contract.

So if you knew that it is a contract why all the extraneous crying, whining, denying and refusal to simply answer my question with a yes?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

This is hardly a fairy tale.

View attachment 353904

View attachment 353905

Dorothy Vaughan: Meet the G.I.R.L.s Behind ‘Hidden Figures’

Dorothy Vaughan, Katherine Johnson, and Mary Jackson are the real-life go-getters, innovators, risk-takers, and leaders of Hidden Figures, the story of the African American women mathematicians beh…

gsgcfblog.org

Katherine Johnson: Meet the G.I.R.L.s Behind ‘Hidden Figures’

Katherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughan, and Mary Jackson are the real-life go-getters, innovators, risk-takers, and leaders of Hidden Figures, the story of the African American women mathematicians beh…

gsgcfblog.org

NASA's Real 'Hidden Figures'

These African-American women made NASA's early space missions possible.

www.space.com

I attended a NASA seminar in Huntsville in 1965. Vaughan was a speaker. I spoke to her after the seminar and I remember her as being a really smart lady. I never heard anything about all the stuff in movie until I saw it.

I'm sure she was great. I bet she was very smart.

So why wasn't that a good enough story to tell? Why did they have to embellish and just plain fabricate so much shit in that movies?

Hidden Figures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From the link;
"Historical accuracy[edit]
The film, set at NASA Langley Research Center in 1961, depicts segregated facilities such as the West Area Computing unit, where an all-black group of female mathematicians were originally required to use separate dining and bathroom facilities. However, in reality, Dorothy Vaughan was promoted to supervisor of West Computing in 1949, becoming the first black supervisor at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) and one of the few female supervisors. "In 1958, when NACA became NASA, segregated facilities, including the West Computing office, were abolished."[18] Dorothy Vaughan and many of the former West Computers transferred to the new Analysis and Computation Division (ACD), a racially and gender-integrated group.[19]

Mary Jackson was the one who had to find her own way to a colored bathroom, which did exist on the East Side.[20] Katherine (then Goble) was originally unaware that the East Side bathrooms were segregated, and used the unlabeled "whites-only" bathrooms for years before anyone complained.[21] She ignored the complaint, and the issue was dropped.[22] In an interview with WHRO-TV, Katherine Johnson denied the feeling of segregation. "I didn't feel the segregation at NASA, because everybody there was doing research. You had a mission and you worked on it, and it was important to you to do your job ... and play bridge at lunch. I didn't feel any segregation. I knew it was there, but I didn't feel it."[23]

Mary Jackson did not have to get a court order to attend night classes at the whites-only high school. She asked the city of Hampton for an exception, and it was granted. The school turned out to be run down and dilapidated, a hidden cost of running two parallel school systems.[24] She completed her engineering courses and earned a promotion to engineer in 1958.[25]

Katherine Goble/Johnson carpooled with Eunice Smith, a nine-year West End computer veteran at the time Katherine joined NACA. Smith was her neighbor and friend from sorority and church choir.[26] The three Goble children were teenagers at the time of Katherine's marriage to Jim Johnson.[27]

Katherine Goble/Johnson was assigned to the Flight Research Division in 1953, a move that soon became permanent. When the Space Task Group was created in 1958, engineers from the Flight Research Division formed the core of the Group, and Katherine moved along with them. She coauthored a research report in 1960, the first time a woman in the Flight Research Division had received credit as an author of a research report.[28]

Katherine gained access to editorial meetings as of 1958 simply through persistence, not because one particular meeting was critical.[29][30]

The Space Task Group was led by Robert Gilruth, not the fictional character Al Harrison, who was created to simplify a more complex management structure.

The scene where Harrison smashes the Colored Ladies Room sign never happened, as in real life Katherine refused to walk the extra distance to use the colored bathroom and, in her words, "just went to the White one".[31] Harrison also lets her into Mission Control to witness the launch. Neither scene happened in real life, and screenwriter Theodore Melfi said he saw no problem with adding the scenes, saying, "There needs to be white people who do the right thing, there needs to be black people who do the right thing, and someone does the right thing. And so who cares who does the right thing, as long as the right thing is achieved?"

Dexter Thomas of Vice News criticized Melfi's additions as creating the white savior trope: "In this case, it means that a white person doesn't have to think about the possibility that, were they around back in the 1960s South, they might have been one of the bad ones."[32] The Atlantic's Megan Garber said that the film's "narrative trajectory" involved "thematic elements of the white savior".[33] Melfi said he found "hurtful" the "accusations of a 'white savior' storyline", saying,

It was very upsetting to me because I am at a place where I've lived my life colorless and I grew up in Brooklyn. I walked to school with people of all shapes, sizes, and colors, and that's how I've lived my life. So it's very upsetting that we still have to have this conversation. I get upset when I hear 'black film,' and so does Taraji P. Henson ... It's just a film. And if we keep labeling something 'a black film,' or 'a white film'— basically it's modern day segregation. We're all humans. Any human can tell any human's story. I don't want to have this conversation about black film or white film anymore. I wanna have conversations about film.

The Huffington Post's Zeba Blay said of Melfi's frustration,

His frustration is also a perfect example of how, when it comes to open dialogue about depictions of people of color on screen, it behooves white people (especially those who position themselves as 'allies') to listen ... the inclusion of the bathroom scene doesn't make Melfi a bad filmmaker, or a bad person, or a racist. But his suggestion that a feel-good scene like that was needed for the marketability and overall appeal of the film speaks to the fact that Hollywood at large still has a long way to go in telling black stories, no matter how many strides have been made.[34]

The fictional characters Vivian Mitchell and Paul Stafford are composites of several team members, and reflect common social views and attitudes of the time. Karl Zielinski is based on Mary Jackson's mentor, Kazimierz "Kaz" Czarnecki.[35]

John Glenn, who was about a decade older than depicted at the time of launch, did ask specifically for Johnson[36] to verify the IBM calculations, although she had several days before the launch date to complete the process.[37]

The author Margot Lee Shetterly has agreed that there are differences between her book and the movie, but found that to be understandable.

For better or for worse, there is history, there is the book and then there's the movie. Timelines had to be conflated and [there were] composite characters, and for most people [who have seen the movie] have already taken that as the literal fact. ... You might get the indication in the movie that these were the only people doing those jobs, when in reality we know they worked in teams, and those teams had other teams. There were sections, branches, divisions, and they all went up to a director. There were so many people required to make this happen. ... It would be great for people to understand that there were so many more people. Even though Katherine Johnson, in this role, was a hero, there were so many others that were required to do other kinds of tests and checks to make [Glenn's] mission come to fruition. But I understand you can't make a movie with 300 characters. It is simply not possible.[38]

John Glenn's flight was not terminated early as incorrectly stated in the movie's closing subtitles. The MA-6 mission was planned for three orbits and landed at the expected time. The press kit published before launch states that "The Mercury Operations Director may elect a one, two or three orbit mission." [39] The post mission report also shows that retrofire was scheduled to occur on the third orbit. [40] Scott Carpenter's subsequent flight in May was also scheduled and flew for three orbits, and Walter Schirra's planned six-orbit flight in October required extensive modifications to the Mercury capsule's life support system to allow him to fly a nine-hour mission.[41] The phrase "go for at least seven orbits" that is in the mission transcript refers to the fact that the Atlas booster had placed Glenn's capsule into an orbit that would be stable for at least seven orbits, not that he had permission to stay up that long.

The Mercury Control Center was located at Cape Canaveral, Florida, not at the Langley Research Center in Virginia. The orbit plots displayed in the front of the room incorrectly show a six-orbit mission, which did not happen until Walter Schirra's MA-8 mission in October 1962. The movie also incorrectly shows NASA flight controllers monitoring live telemetry from the Soviet Vostok launch, which the Soviet Union would not have been sharing with NASA in 1961.

Katherine Johnson's Technical Note D-233, co-written with T.H. Skopinski, can be found on the NASA Technical Reports Server.[42]

The visual blog Information is Beautiful deduced that, while taking creative licence into account, the film was 74% accurate when compared to real-life events, summarizing that "the crux of the story is true, [and] any events that didn't actually happen are at least illustrative of how things really were".

All movies do this. So take the same amount of time looking to discredit white people.

Yeah, it's called taking creative license.

I'm pretty astounded at how much effort they put into picking the movie apart, all while failing to note that the time period was 1961, three years prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 so the segregated restrooms fall right in line with the time.

I noticed you didn't mention anything about the fact that they bought that big ole IBM main frame computer but the vendors who they were paying all that money to (you know those 'guy' who would find it beneath them to labor away in a service industry job) couldn't get it working initially. What Dorothy Vaughan did was what many of us had to do, we had to learn things that others were taught and we were excluded from, all on our own in order to try to make sure we remained relevent in the job field.

But what that scene really drove home to me is how everytime anyone makes a suggestion of reparations for the centuries of legal discrimination sanctioned by our government towards black people, we're told it's not possible and none of us were alive and there is no way to calculate it. Dorothy Vaughan made a very good point when she stole the FORTRAN book from the library. She stated that her taxes paid for the library and the book. So think about it. Black people were required to pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, yet only received a percentage of the goods services in exchange. Having the police called on you to throw you out of the library that your taxes paid for is a perfect example. So IF the government wanted to make reparations, they could launch it by using the tax roles, just as one example of to address one part of the problem.

As I was watching the movie for the 3rd time with my neice, I was explaining to her the various violations of the Civil Rights Act (of today) that were perfectly legal back in 1961, particularly the disparate treatment, disparate compensation, not to mention the whites/colored only restrooms.

 

[freyasman]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

Yes...... but again, so what?

 

[freyasman]

I actually DO know the difference between "documented history" and propaganda..... it's why I don't waste my time or money on crap like that movie.

I'm currently reading Empire of The Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne....
. I'm not going to confuse that with Dances with Wolves.

Did you watch or believe the movie the Red Tails? Or do you consider that a fairy tale also?

Didn't see it.

 

[IM2]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

All my uncles and cousins are black and the shit you talk here would cause problems for you in ANY black family. Even if what you say is true you are going to have at least 1 relative that's not going to tolerate your racism. I believe you are using internet blackface and that you don't have any black relatives.

 

[freyasman]

This is hardly a fairy tale.

View attachment 353904

View attachment 353905

Dorothy Vaughan: Meet the G.I.R.L.s Behind ‘Hidden Figures’

Dorothy Vaughan, Katherine Johnson, and Mary Jackson are the real-life go-getters, innovators, risk-takers, and leaders of Hidden Figures, the story of the African American women mathematicians beh…

gsgcfblog.org

Katherine Johnson: Meet the G.I.R.L.s Behind ‘Hidden Figures’

Katherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughan, and Mary Jackson are the real-life go-getters, innovators, risk-takers, and leaders of Hidden Figures, the story of the African American women mathematicians beh…

gsgcfblog.org

NASA's Real 'Hidden Figures'

These African-American women made NASA's early space missions possible.

www.space.com

I attended a NASA seminar in Huntsville in 1965. Vaughan was a speaker. I spoke to her after the seminar and I remember her as being a really smart lady. I never heard anything about all the stuff in movie until I saw it.

I'm sure she was great. I bet she was very smart.

So why wasn't that a good enough story to tell? Why did they have to embellish and just plain fabricate so much shit in that movies?

Hidden Figures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From the link;
"Historical accuracy[edit]
The film, set at NASA Langley Research Center in 1961, depicts segregated facilities such as the West Area Computing unit, where an all-black group of female mathematicians were originally required to use separate dining and bathroom facilities. However, in reality, Dorothy Vaughan was promoted to supervisor of West Computing in 1949, becoming the first black supervisor at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) and one of the few female supervisors. "In 1958, when NACA became NASA, segregated facilities, including the West Computing office, were abolished."[18] Dorothy Vaughan and many of the former West Computers transferred to the new Analysis and Computation Division (ACD), a racially and gender-integrated group.[19]

Mary Jackson was the one who had to find her own way to a colored bathroom, which did exist on the East Side.[20] Katherine (then Goble) was originally unaware that the East Side bathrooms were segregated, and used the unlabeled "whites-only" bathrooms for years before anyone complained.[21] She ignored the complaint, and the issue was dropped.[22] In an interview with WHRO-TV, Katherine Johnson denied the feeling of segregation. "I didn't feel the segregation at NASA, because everybody there was doing research. You had a mission and you worked on it, and it was important to you to do your job ... and play bridge at lunch. I didn't feel any segregation. I knew it was there, but I didn't feel it."[23]

Mary Jackson did not have to get a court order to attend night classes at the whites-only high school. She asked the city of Hampton for an exception, and it was granted. The school turned out to be run down and dilapidated, a hidden cost of running two parallel school systems.[24] She completed her engineering courses and earned a promotion to engineer in 1958.[25]

Katherine Goble/Johnson carpooled with Eunice Smith, a nine-year West End computer veteran at the time Katherine joined NACA. Smith was her neighbor and friend from sorority and church choir.[26] The three Goble children were teenagers at the time of Katherine's marriage to Jim Johnson.[27]

Katherine Goble/Johnson was assigned to the Flight Research Division in 1953, a move that soon became permanent. When the Space Task Group was created in 1958, engineers from the Flight Research Division formed the core of the Group, and Katherine moved along with them. She coauthored a research report in 1960, the first time a woman in the Flight Research Division had received credit as an author of a research report.[28]

Katherine gained access to editorial meetings as of 1958 simply through persistence, not because one particular meeting was critical.[29][30]

The Space Task Group was led by Robert Gilruth, not the fictional character Al Harrison, who was created to simplify a more complex management structure.

The scene where Harrison smashes the Colored Ladies Room sign never happened, as in real life Katherine refused to walk the extra distance to use the colored bathroom and, in her words, "just went to the White one".[31] Harrison also lets her into Mission Control to witness the launch. Neither scene happened in real life, and screenwriter Theodore Melfi said he saw no problem with adding the scenes, saying, "There needs to be white people who do the right thing, there needs to be black people who do the right thing, and someone does the right thing. And so who cares who does the right thing, as long as the right thing is achieved?"

Dexter Thomas of Vice News criticized Melfi's additions as creating the white savior trope: "In this case, it means that a white person doesn't have to think about the possibility that, were they around back in the 1960s South, they might have been one of the bad ones."[32] The Atlantic's Megan Garber said that the film's "narrative trajectory" involved "thematic elements of the white savior".[33] Melfi said he found "hurtful" the "accusations of a 'white savior' storyline", saying,

It was very upsetting to me because I am at a place where I've lived my life colorless and I grew up in Brooklyn. I walked to school with people of all shapes, sizes, and colors, and that's how I've lived my life. So it's very upsetting that we still have to have this conversation. I get upset when I hear 'black film,' and so does Taraji P. Henson ... It's just a film. And if we keep labeling something 'a black film,' or 'a white film'— basically it's modern day segregation. We're all humans. Any human can tell any human's story. I don't want to have this conversation about black film or white film anymore. I wanna have conversations about film.

The Huffington Post's Zeba Blay said of Melfi's frustration,

His frustration is also a perfect example of how, when it comes to open dialogue about depictions of people of color on screen, it behooves white people (especially those who position themselves as 'allies') to listen ... the inclusion of the bathroom scene doesn't make Melfi a bad filmmaker, or a bad person, or a racist. But his suggestion that a feel-good scene like that was needed for the marketability and overall appeal of the film speaks to the fact that Hollywood at large still has a long way to go in telling black stories, no matter how many strides have been made.[34]

The fictional characters Vivian Mitchell and Paul Stafford are composites of several team members, and reflect common social views and attitudes of the time. Karl Zielinski is based on Mary Jackson's mentor, Kazimierz "Kaz" Czarnecki.[35]

John Glenn, who was about a decade older than depicted at the time of launch, did ask specifically for Johnson[36] to verify the IBM calculations, although she had several days before the launch date to complete the process.[37]

The author Margot Lee Shetterly has agreed that there are differences between her book and the movie, but found that to be understandable.

For better or for worse, there is history, there is the book and then there's the movie. Timelines had to be conflated and [there were] composite characters, and for most people [who have seen the movie] have already taken that as the literal fact. ... You might get the indication in the movie that these were the only people doing those jobs, when in reality we know they worked in teams, and those teams had other teams. There were sections, branches, divisions, and they all went up to a director. There were so many people required to make this happen. ... It would be great for people to understand that there were so many more people. Even though Katherine Johnson, in this role, was a hero, there were so many others that were required to do other kinds of tests and checks to make [Glenn's] mission come to fruition. But I understand you can't make a movie with 300 characters. It is simply not possible.[38]

John Glenn's flight was not terminated early as incorrectly stated in the movie's closing subtitles. The MA-6 mission was planned for three orbits and landed at the expected time. The press kit published before launch states that "The Mercury Operations Director may elect a one, two or three orbit mission." [39] The post mission report also shows that retrofire was scheduled to occur on the third orbit. [40] Scott Carpenter's subsequent flight in May was also scheduled and flew for three orbits, and Walter Schirra's planned six-orbit flight in October required extensive modifications to the Mercury capsule's life support system to allow him to fly a nine-hour mission.[41] The phrase "go for at least seven orbits" that is in the mission transcript refers to the fact that the Atlas booster had placed Glenn's capsule into an orbit that would be stable for at least seven orbits, not that he had permission to stay up that long.

The Mercury Control Center was located at Cape Canaveral, Florida, not at the Langley Research Center in Virginia. The orbit plots displayed in the front of the room incorrectly show a six-orbit mission, which did not happen until Walter Schirra's MA-8 mission in October 1962. The movie also incorrectly shows NASA flight controllers monitoring live telemetry from the Soviet Vostok launch, which the Soviet Union would not have been sharing with NASA in 1961.

Katherine Johnson's Technical Note D-233, co-written with T.H. Skopinski, can be found on the NASA Technical Reports Server.[42]

The visual blog Information is Beautiful deduced that, while taking creative licence into account, the film was 74% accurate when compared to real-life events, summarizing that "the crux of the story is true, [and] any events that didn't actually happen are at least illustrative of how things really were".

All movies do this. So take the same amount of time looking to discredit white people.

Yeah, it's called taking creative license.

I'm pretty astounded at how much effort they put into picking the movie apart, all while failing to note that the time period was 1961, three years prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 so the segregated restrooms fall right in line with the time.

I noticed you didn't mention anything about the fact that they bought that big ole IBM main frame computer but the vendors who they were paying all that money to (you know those 'guy' who would find it beneath them to labor away in a service industry job) couldn't get it working initially. What Dorothy Vaughan did was what many of us had to do, we had to learn things that others were taught and we were excluded from, all on our own in order to try to make sure we remained relevent in the job field.

But what that scene really drove home to me is how everytime anyone makes a suggestion of reparations for the centuries of legal discrimination sanctioned by our government towards black people, we're told it's not possible and none of us were alive and there is no way to calculate it. Dorothy Vaughan made a very good point when she stole the FORTRAN book from the library. She stated that her taxes paid for the library and the book. So think about it. Black people were required to pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, yet only received a percentage of the goods services in exchange. Having the police called on you to throw you out of the library that your taxes paid for is a perfect example. So IF the government wanted to make reparations, they could launch it by using the tax roles, just as one example of to address one part of the problem.

As I was watching the movie for the 3rd time with my neice, I was explaining to her the various violations of the Civil Rights Act (of today) that were perfectly legal back in 1961, particularly the disparate treatment, disparate compensation, not to mention the whites/colored only restrooms.

So you obviously liked the movie then?
Good for you.


It did not look even a little bit interesting to me and what I've heard about it inclines me to believe I won't enjoy it much.
So I won't bother.
That doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a guy who would rather not waste my time on shit I won't enjoy.

 

[IM2]

Well, I did go to school, study law, graduated, and done several decades working in it. I have written a couple of contracts that could not be broken when challenged in court. So, my answer would be, I know a little about it.

Isn't indentured servitude a contract?

Irrelevant counselor. All this was asked and answered.

"An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work without pay for the owner of the indenture for a period of time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a specific payment or other benefit (such as transportation to a new place), or to meet a legal obligation, such as debt bondage. On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land. Indentured servitude was often brutal, with a high percentage[vague] of servants dying prior to the expiration of their indentures. In many countries, systems of indentured labor have now been outlawed, and are banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery ."

Indentured servitude - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WHAT PART OF THAT WHERE INDENTURED SERVITUDE IS BANNED AS A FORM OF SLAVERY WENT OVER YOUR HEAD?

I didn't ask for an explanation, I simply asked if it is not a contract.

Yeah, we know the point you're trying to make, cabron. You just didn't like the answer because it was honest. You want to make life look like only the blacks know suffering, slavery, and pain. Well, surprise, you don't have a monopoly on it. What makes you racist is you want whites to be held accountable because it was slavery after all... What about the black POS that sold your ancestors into slavery (presupposing you can trace your lineage back to slavery - which is probably not likely)????

You know for an attorney, you're not very bright.

My question required a simple yes or no that thus far you have danced around by bringing up a lot of other information that on it's face looks as if it's relevent to the topic when it's not and/or supports the point you're trying to make when it doesn't. It's like when someone is taking a test and they don't know the answer to one of the questions and instead of leaving it blank or answering it incorrectly they write in circles hoping that somewhere in their word salad, they might happen upon something that is close enough to the correct answer that they'll receive at least partial credit.

And you really should know better as an attorney to think that by abstracting a comment you can avoid being held liable for your remarks. I am not an asshole but I damn sure know HOW to be one so I'd appreciate it if you would refrain in the future from calling me by anything other than my moniker used here. Or simply refrain from engaging in the nasty comments with/to/about me period. Either will work for me.

So again, I will ask you since you claim to have a law degree and are familiar with contract law, if indentured servitude is not a contract. I'm not asking if it's an enforceable contract, or one that was null and void at the point of it's execution because one or more or all of the parties to it had no intentions of ever honoring it's terms, simply is it a contract or not. YES or NO?

DO NOT FUCK WITH A SISTER!

Don't hurt him like that Newsvine. You know the boy can't get right. He can't hep himself. He's been preaching that racist bullshit to other white racists for so long that he thinks he can run it on you and that you'll simply genuflect in amazement at the superior mind of the white man.

 

[freyasman]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

All my uncles and cousins are black and the shit you talk here would cause problems for you in ANY black family. Even if what you say is true you are going to have at least 1 relative that's not going to tolerate your racism. I believe you are using internet blackface and that you don't have any black relatives.

My wife's cousin's husband is one of my favorite guys to hang with at family functions. He's a black guy about my age and we are almost total opposites politically.....
We have great discussions and arguments. It's a blast, lol.

Scares the shit out of the women though because we are always both armed. We then spend some time mocking them for worrying that we aren't going to act like adults.

I can disagree with people and still love them.

Family is everything.

 

[IM2]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

All my uncles and cousins are black and the shit you talk here would cause problems for you in ANY black family. Even if what you say is true you are going to have at least 1 relative that's not going to tolerate your racism. I believe you are using internet blackface and that you don't have any black relatives.

My wife's cousin's husband is one of my favorite guys to hang with at family functions. He's a black guy about my age and we are almost total opposites politically.....
We have great discussions and arguments. It's a blast, lol.

Scares the shit out of the women though because we are always both armed. We then spend some time mocking them for worrying that we aren't going to act like adults.

I can disagree with people and still love them.

Family is everything.

There is a difference between disagreement and what you have shown here.

 

[freyasman]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

All my uncles and cousins are black and the shit you talk here would cause problems for you in ANY black family. Even if what you say is true you are going to have at least 1 relative that's not going to tolerate your racism. I believe you are using internet blackface and that you don't have any black relatives.

My wife's cousin's husband is one of my favorite guys to hang with at family functions. He's a black guy about my age and we are almost total opposites politically.....
We have great discussions and arguments. It's a blast, lol.

Scares the shit out of the women though because we are always both armed. We then spend some time mocking them for worrying that we aren't going to act like adults.

I can disagree with people and still love them.

Family is everything.

There is a difference between disagreement and what you have shown here.

And you ain't my family, either.

So fuck you.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

This is hardly a fairy tale.

View attachment 353904

View attachment 353905

Dorothy Vaughan: Meet the G.I.R.L.s Behind ‘Hidden Figures’

Dorothy Vaughan, Katherine Johnson, and Mary Jackson are the real-life go-getters, innovators, risk-takers, and leaders of Hidden Figures, the story of the African American women mathematicians beh…

gsgcfblog.org

Katherine Johnson: Meet the G.I.R.L.s Behind ‘Hidden Figures’

Katherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughan, and Mary Jackson are the real-life go-getters, innovators, risk-takers, and leaders of Hidden Figures, the story of the African American women mathematicians beh…

gsgcfblog.org

NASA's Real 'Hidden Figures'

These African-American women made NASA's early space missions possible.

www.space.com

I attended a NASA seminar in Huntsville in 1965. Vaughan was a speaker. I spoke to her after the seminar and I remember her as being a really smart lady. I never heard anything about all the stuff in movie until I saw it.

I'm sure she was great. I bet she was very smart.

So why wasn't that a good enough story to tell? Why did they have to embellish and just plain fabricate so much shit in that movies?

Hidden Figures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From the link;
"Historical accuracy[edit]
The film, set at NASA Langley Research Center in 1961, depicts segregated facilities such as the West Area Computing unit, where an all-black group of female mathematicians were originally required to use separate dining and bathroom facilities. However, in reality, Dorothy Vaughan was promoted to supervisor of West Computing in 1949, becoming the first black supervisor at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) and one of the few female supervisors. "In 1958, when NACA became NASA, segregated facilities, including the West Computing office, were abolished."[18] Dorothy Vaughan and many of the former West Computers transferred to the new Analysis and Computation Division (ACD), a racially and gender-integrated group.[19]

Mary Jackson was the one who had to find her own way to a colored bathroom, which did exist on the East Side.[20] Katherine (then Goble) was originally unaware that the East Side bathrooms were segregated, and used the unlabeled "whites-only" bathrooms for years before anyone complained.[21] She ignored the complaint, and the issue was dropped.[22] In an interview with WHRO-TV, Katherine Johnson denied the feeling of segregation. "I didn't feel the segregation at NASA, because everybody there was doing research. You had a mission and you worked on it, and it was important to you to do your job ... and play bridge at lunch. I didn't feel any segregation. I knew it was there, but I didn't feel it."[23]

Mary Jackson did not have to get a court order to attend night classes at the whites-only high school. She asked the city of Hampton for an exception, and it was granted. The school turned out to be run down and dilapidated, a hidden cost of running two parallel school systems.[24] She completed her engineering courses and earned a promotion to engineer in 1958.[25]

Katherine Goble/Johnson carpooled with Eunice Smith, a nine-year West End computer veteran at the time Katherine joined NACA. Smith was her neighbor and friend from sorority and church choir.[26] The three Goble children were teenagers at the time of Katherine's marriage to Jim Johnson.[27]

Katherine Goble/Johnson was assigned to the Flight Research Division in 1953, a move that soon became permanent. When the Space Task Group was created in 1958, engineers from the Flight Research Division formed the core of the Group, and Katherine moved along with them. She coauthored a research report in 1960, the first time a woman in the Flight Research Division had received credit as an author of a research report.[28]

Katherine gained access to editorial meetings as of 1958 simply through persistence, not because one particular meeting was critical.[29][30]

The Space Task Group was led by Robert Gilruth, not the fictional character Al Harrison, who was created to simplify a more complex management structure.

The scene where Harrison smashes the Colored Ladies Room sign never happened, as in real life Katherine refused to walk the extra distance to use the colored bathroom and, in her words, "just went to the White one".[31] Harrison also lets her into Mission Control to witness the launch. Neither scene happened in real life, and screenwriter Theodore Melfi said he saw no problem with adding the scenes, saying, "There needs to be white people who do the right thing, there needs to be black people who do the right thing, and someone does the right thing. And so who cares who does the right thing, as long as the right thing is achieved?"

Dexter Thomas of Vice News criticized Melfi's additions as creating the white savior trope: "In this case, it means that a white person doesn't have to think about the possibility that, were they around back in the 1960s South, they might have been one of the bad ones."[32] The Atlantic's Megan Garber said that the film's "narrative trajectory" involved "thematic elements of the white savior".[33] Melfi said he found "hurtful" the "accusations of a 'white savior' storyline", saying,

It was very upsetting to me because I am at a place where I've lived my life colorless and I grew up in Brooklyn. I walked to school with people of all shapes, sizes, and colors, and that's how I've lived my life. So it's very upsetting that we still have to have this conversation. I get upset when I hear 'black film,' and so does Taraji P. Henson ... It's just a film. And if we keep labeling something 'a black film,' or 'a white film'— basically it's modern day segregation. We're all humans. Any human can tell any human's story. I don't want to have this conversation about black film or white film anymore. I wanna have conversations about film.

The Huffington Post's Zeba Blay said of Melfi's frustration,

His frustration is also a perfect example of how, when it comes to open dialogue about depictions of people of color on screen, it behooves white people (especially those who position themselves as 'allies') to listen ... the inclusion of the bathroom scene doesn't make Melfi a bad filmmaker, or a bad person, or a racist. But his suggestion that a feel-good scene like that was needed for the marketability and overall appeal of the film speaks to the fact that Hollywood at large still has a long way to go in telling black stories, no matter how many strides have been made.[34]

The fictional characters Vivian Mitchell and Paul Stafford are composites of several team members, and reflect common social views and attitudes of the time. Karl Zielinski is based on Mary Jackson's mentor, Kazimierz "Kaz" Czarnecki.[35]

John Glenn, who was about a decade older than depicted at the time of launch, did ask specifically for Johnson[36] to verify the IBM calculations, although she had several days before the launch date to complete the process.[37]

The author Margot Lee Shetterly has agreed that there are differences between her book and the movie, but found that to be understandable.

For better or for worse, there is history, there is the book and then there's the movie. Timelines had to be conflated and [there were] composite characters, and for most people [who have seen the movie] have already taken that as the literal fact. ... You might get the indication in the movie that these were the only people doing those jobs, when in reality we know they worked in teams, and those teams had other teams. There were sections, branches, divisions, and they all went up to a director. There were so many people required to make this happen. ... It would be great for people to understand that there were so many more people. Even though Katherine Johnson, in this role, was a hero, there were so many others that were required to do other kinds of tests and checks to make [Glenn's] mission come to fruition. But I understand you can't make a movie with 300 characters. It is simply not possible.[38]

John Glenn's flight was not terminated early as incorrectly stated in the movie's closing subtitles. The MA-6 mission was planned for three orbits and landed at the expected time. The press kit published before launch states that "The Mercury Operations Director may elect a one, two or three orbit mission." [39] The post mission report also shows that retrofire was scheduled to occur on the third orbit. [40] Scott Carpenter's subsequent flight in May was also scheduled and flew for three orbits, and Walter Schirra's planned six-orbit flight in October required extensive modifications to the Mercury capsule's life support system to allow him to fly a nine-hour mission.[41] The phrase "go for at least seven orbits" that is in the mission transcript refers to the fact that the Atlas booster had placed Glenn's capsule into an orbit that would be stable for at least seven orbits, not that he had permission to stay up that long.

The Mercury Control Center was located at Cape Canaveral, Florida, not at the Langley Research Center in Virginia. The orbit plots displayed in the front of the room incorrectly show a six-orbit mission, which did not happen until Walter Schirra's MA-8 mission in October 1962. The movie also incorrectly shows NASA flight controllers monitoring live telemetry from the Soviet Vostok launch, which the Soviet Union would not have been sharing with NASA in 1961.

Katherine Johnson's Technical Note D-233, co-written with T.H. Skopinski, can be found on the NASA Technical Reports Server.[42]

The visual blog Information is Beautiful deduced that, while taking creative licence into account, the film was 74% accurate when compared to real-life events, summarizing that "the crux of the story is true, [and] any events that didn't actually happen are at least illustrative of how things really were".

All movies do this. So take the same amount of time looking to discredit white people.

Yeah, it's called taking creative license.

I'm pretty astounded at how much effort they put into picking the movie apart, all while failing to note that the time period was 1961, three years prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 so the segregated restrooms fall right in line with the time.

I noticed you didn't mention anything about the fact that they bought that big ole IBM main frame computer but the vendors who they were paying all that money to (you know those 'guy' who would find it beneath them to labor away in a service industry job) couldn't get it working initially. What Dorothy Vaughan did was what many of us had to do, we had to learn things that others were taught and we were excluded from, all on our own in order to try to make sure we remained relevent in the job field.

But what that scene really drove home to me is how everytime anyone makes a suggestion of reparations for the centuries of legal discrimination sanctioned by our government towards black people, we're told it's not possible and none of us were alive and there is no way to calculate it. Dorothy Vaughan made a very good point when she stole the FORTRAN book from the library. She stated that her taxes paid for the library and the book. So think about it. Black people were required to pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, yet only received a percentage of the goods services in exchange. Having the police called on you to throw you out of the library that your taxes paid for is a perfect example. So IF the government wanted to make reparations, they could launch it by using the tax roles, just as one example of to address one part of the problem.

As I was watching the movie for the 3rd time with my neice, I was explaining to her the various violations of the Civil Rights Act (of today) that were perfectly legal back in 1961, particularly the disparate treatment, disparate compensation, not to mention the whites/colored only restrooms.

So you obviously liked the movie then?
Good for you.


It did not look even a little bit interesting to me and what I've heard about it inclines me to believe I won't enjoy it much.
So I won't bother.
That doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a guy who would rather not waste my time on shit I won't enjoy.

I LOVED the movie. The fact that I had never even heard of these women distressed me greatly.

I have a degree in Aeronautical Science with an area of concentration in computer science so the movie touched on several subjects that are near and dear to my heart. And seeing anyone, no matter who they are, overcome adversity, and have their major accomplishments recognized is something that warms my heart. Black women have not traditionally been thought of as "smart", not mathematician, rocket level science smart. One of my favorite lines from the movie was when Katherine informed her prospective suitor "NASA didn't hire us because we wear skirts, it's because we wear glasses" (eggheads

In my own life, I felt as if I had achieve my goal when I was no longer being paid to do fetch & step for others (fetching coffee, typing letters, making appointments & reservations, etc.) but instead was being paid for the use of my brain - to design, develop, test, deploy and administer computer software applications.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

Yes...... but again, so what?

Because you seem hostile to black people.

I understand that your wife and children are special to you, as they should be, but it says something that you are so negative in your attitude towards African Americans that I can't help but wonder if it spills over and colors the way you interact with your own family.

And I'm truly not trying to insult you, I just don't understand why all of the animosity towards people who have personally caused you no harm.

 

[Unkotare]

Is anyone really surprised that movies (you know, entertainment) dramatizes things? WTF do you expect?

 

[freyasman]

Btw, I grew up within spitting distance of NASA, and there are people still alive and around here who were present at that place and time...... and they called bullshit on that fairy tale.

And the people who work at Microsoft in the cafeteria, the company store, keeping the campus clean and well maintained, etc. can truthfully state that they work for Microsoft but for most people that's not what comes to mind when someone states they "came" from Microsoft.

These people you know, do they have clearances and worked on the space program with Katherine Johnson, Mary Jackson and Dorothy Vaughan, the women whose lives the story was based on?

I honestly don't understand why you automatically default to a negative perspective when it comes to black people. Even if you strip away the movie, these were extraordinary women who acomplished what they did during a time when legal segregation was the law of the land. Why are you so resistent to the fact that there are plenty of outstanding and intelligent and kind African Americans? Why does that thought bother you so much that you have to deny everything that is said by anyone (or at least me) who tries to enlighten you?

But he says his wife is black.

So are more than half my uncles and most of my cousins.
So what?

Do you have any bi-racial children?

Yes...... but again, so what?

Because you seem hostile to black people.

I understand that your wife and children are special to you, as they should be, but it says something that you are so negative in your attitude towards African Americans that I can't help but wonder if it spills over and colors the way you interact with your own family.

And I'm truly not trying to insult you, I just don't understand why all of the animosity towards people who have personally caused you no harm.

Blatant attempts to guilt, shame and manipulate piss me off.
As do people who are apologists for the ones who act that way.

And if you ain't one of my tribe then I owe you nothing.

 

[freyasman]

Is anyone really surprised that movies (you know, entertainment) dramatizes things? WTF do you expect?

No, but I don't care for heavy handed message stories.
Just entertain me and leave it at that.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Well, I did go to school, study law, graduated, and done several decades working in it. I have written a couple of contracts that could not be broken when challenged in court. So, my answer would be, I know a little about it.

Isn't indentured servitude a contract?

Irrelevant counselor. All this was asked and answered.

"An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work without pay for the owner of the indenture for a period of time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a specific payment or other benefit (such as transportation to a new place), or to meet a legal obligation, such as debt bondage. On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land. Indentured servitude was often brutal, with a high percentage[vague] of servants dying prior to the expiration of their indentures. In many countries, systems of indentured labor have now been outlawed, and are banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery ."

Indentured servitude - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WHAT PART OF THAT WHERE INDENTURED SERVITUDE IS BANNED AS A FORM OF SLAVERY WENT OVER YOUR HEAD?

I didn't ask for an explanation, I simply asked if it is not a contract.

Yeah, we know the point you're trying to make, cabron. You just didn't like the answer because it was honest. You want to make life look like only the blacks know suffering, slavery, and pain. Well, surprise, you don't have a monopoly on it. What makes you racist is you want whites to be held accountable because it was slavery after all... What about the black POS that sold your ancestors into slavery (presupposing you can trace your lineage back to slavery - which is probably not likely)????

You know for an attorney, you're not very bright.

My question required a simple yes or no that thus far you have danced around by bringing up a lot of other information that on it's face looks as if it's relevent to the topic when it's not and/or supports the point you're trying to make when it doesn't. It's like when someone is taking a test and they don't know the answer to one of the questions and instead of leaving it blank or answering it incorrectly they write in circles hoping that somewhere in their word salad, they might happen upon something that is close enough to the correct answer that they'll receive at least partial credit.

And you really should know better as an attorney to think that by abstracting a comment you can avoid being held liable for your remarks. I am not an asshole but I damn sure know HOW to be one so I'd appreciate it if you would refrain in the future from calling me by anything other than my moniker used here. Or simply refrain from engaging in the nasty comments with/to/about me period. Either will work for me.

So again, I will ask you since you claim to have a law degree and are familiar with contract law, if indentured servitude is not a contract. I'm not asking if it's an enforceable contract, or one that was null and void at the point of it's execution because one or more or all of the parties to it had no intentions of ever honoring it's terms, simply is it a contract or not. YES or NO?

DO NOT FUCK WITH A SISTER!

Don't hurt him like that Newsvine. You know the boy can't get right. He can't hep himself. He's been preaching that racist bullshit to other white racists for so long that he thinks he can run it on you and that you'll simply genuflect in amazement at the superior mind of the white man.

LOL lol.

But SERIOUSLY, you know what I'm saying is true and he does too. He's exactly the type of person I was telling you all that I have to deal with, the flim-flam, talk-all-around-the-subject, tie it up in knots, introduce a similar sounding or similar topic and then argue that instead of the actual topic to the point that nobody even remembers the point that is being argued and since I'm black and poor I must be the one in the wrong because certainly the white person can't be wrong.

And do you see how wound up he is? He's losing his shit because Blues Man disagreed with something he said (that slavery and indentured servitude are the same thing essentially) and he's about 4 or 5 pages in, arguing this point while refusing to answer the simple question with a yes or no about whether indentured servitude is a contract. He's even dragged the United Nations into the argument instead of simply replying "Yes it's a contract HOWEVER in 19?? the United Nations DETERMINED blah blah blah" yet he couldn't even do that because for some reason he simply can't admit that he made a mistake.

What is the meaning of contract in law?

Definition. An agreement between private parties creating mutual obligations enforceable by law.

The basic elements required for the agreement to be a legally enforceable contract are: mutual assent, expressed by a valid offer and acceptance; adequate consideration; capacity; and legality.

When did the slaves agree to be slaves? What were the obligations of the slave holders? (Hint: NONE!)
And how can you claim that an act is "legal" if those same acts were they done to a white person, then the offender in all likelihood would be killed on the spot? And where was the mutual assent? Being told and made to do something at gunpoint is acting under duress and that in itself is grounds to invalide the "contract".

I have to sleep now so that I can rent out my brain when I wake up. See you later IM2 and thanks for everything.