N.J. troopers arrest woman for remaining silent during traffic stop

[rightwinger]

Rightwinger,

Because I respect your intelligence I am eager to respond to your clearly erroneous and biased beliefs concerning the Waco Massacre, an incident which I regard as one of the most important events in modern American socio-political history and one which I have researched in depth because of its critical implications.

One very important fact I wish to call your attention to is the obstruction imposed on the media by the federal government throughout the entire 51-day standoff. During this time the Davidians begged the FBI to allow reporters to enter the compound to interview them, and some of the most prominent members of the contemporary Press also appealed to be permitted, waiving all responsibility for their personal safety.

Those appeals were flatly rejected and the media was restricted to an enclosed area about a mile from the scene. With few exceptions the only source of information they had was the FBI. Those exceptions included the county sheriff, Jack Harwell, who stated that he'd investigated the claims made against David Koresh and the Davidians and found them to be unfounded. He said the Davidians were decent, peaceful people who kept largely to themselves but were respectable members of the community.

Every member of the Waco community interviewed by the media had basically the same things to say, essentially describing the Davidians as good neighbors.

Koresh was a pedophile forcing 12 year old girls to be his wives. He also murdered four federal agents and his decisions led directly to the deaths of all involved

 

[MikeK]

Very simply, they gave Koresh more than enough latitude for someone what killed four agents

There is nothing simple about the fact that there were 26 innocent children in that building, some as young as one and two years.[/quote]

They were patient to a fault and finally decided enough is enough

So in other words you believe the way to go is, "Fuck the children -- let 'em burn!" Right? There is no other possible interpretation of your decision.

That is who and what you are.

 

[MikeK]

Koresh was a pedophile forcing 12 year old girls to be his wives. He also murdered four federal agents and his decisions led directly to the deaths of all involved

What does that have to do with the lives of 21 innocent children? Stop evading that critical factor. Those kids had absolutely nothing to do with anything Koresh did or didn't do. They were de facto hostages and a decision was made to let them burn.

As to whether he four "murdered" ATF raiders, a Texas criminal court didn't think so. The jury saw fit to acquit the Davidians of those charges because the way that raid was conducted was unlawful under Texas law and the Davidians' action was considered self defense.

No warrant was ever presented by the raiders and there was no cause for a "no-knock" break-in. When Koresh refused to admit the raiders without seeing a warrant, which was his legal right, one of the raiders fired a shot through a wooden half-door which struck Koresh in the abdomen and triggered the firefight that followed.

I think your position is predicated on ignorance of the facts. So I suggest you obtain a copy of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Davidian-Massacre-Disturbing-Questions-Answered/dp/1880692228&tag=ff0d01-20

There are many books on this subject but this one is a good place to start. Carol Moore is an investigative journalist with impeccable credentials and she has done a thorough job here. Everything she presents as fact is well-documented.

 

[jc456]

So?

Don't worry...Officers violating the rights of citizens is a discussion you aren't prepared for...

what right did he violate? She had a choice, speak to the officer or go to the precinct and take care of it there. I'm not clear what the officers did wrong.

Bull shit. She doesnt have to have a conversation with him. All she needs to do is produce her documents at his request.

Sure she does it's in the contract she signed to get a license

 

[jc456]

Both sides were stupid.

If she were simply exercising her right to remain silent, as was her 5th Amend Right and arrested for it, why read a person their rights at all???

in the event there is anything said. Protects the police. It's why she wouldn't talk.

How does it protect the police? No dummy its protecting against self incrimination.

Guarantees the ticket and any other charges

 

[JakeStarkey]

Both sides were stupid.

If she were simply exercising her right to remain silent, as was her 5th Amend Right and arrested for it, why read a person their rights at all???

in the event there is anything said. Protects the police. It's why she wouldn't talk.

How does it protect the police? No dummy its protecting against self incrimination.

Guarantees the ticket and any other charges

No, it does not.

 

[HenryBHough]

Think it's bad?

On Jake's Planet Pajama police are encouraged (not just allow) to torture spoken words out of the peasants.

But they seem to like it.....

 

[Asclepias]

So?

Don't worry...Officers violating the rights of citizens is a discussion you aren't prepared for...

what right did he violate? She had a choice, speak to the officer or go to the precinct and take care of it there. I'm not clear what the officers did wrong.

Bull shit. She doesnt have to have a conversation with him. All she needs to do is produce her documents at his request.

Sure she does it's in the contract she signed to get a license

Its sad you dont know your rights but then you dont know much of anything else so its not really surprising.

 

[Asclepias]

Both sides were stupid.

If she were simply exercising her right to remain silent, as was her 5th Amend Right and arrested for it, why read a person their rights at all???

in the event there is anything said. Protects the police. It's why she wouldn't talk.

How does it protect the police? No dummy its protecting against self incrimination.

Guarantees the ticket and any other charges

The 5th amendment has nothing to do with guaranteeing a ticket genius. You must have dropped out of school in the 8th grade to be this clueless.

 

[bodecea]

Rightwinger,

Because I respect your intelligence I am eager to respond to your clearly erroneous and biased beliefs concerning the Waco Massacre, an incident which I regard as one of the most important events in modern American socio-political history and one which I have researched in depth because of its critical implications.

One very important fact I wish to call your attention to is the obstruction imposed on the media by the federal government throughout the entire 51-day standoff. During this time the Davidians begged the FBI to allow reporters to enter the compound to interview them, and some of the most prominent members of the contemporary Press also appealed to be permitted, waiving all responsibility for their personal safety.

Those appeals were flatly rejected and the media was restricted to an enclosed area about a mile from the scene. With few exceptions the only source of information they had was the FBI. Those exceptions included the county sheriff, Jack Harwell, who stated that he'd investigated the claims made against David Koresh and the Davidians and found them to be unfounded. He said the Davidians were decent, peaceful people who kept largely to themselves but were respectable members of the community.

Every member of the Waco community interviewed by the media had basically the same things to say, essentially describing the Davidians as good neighbors.

Koresh was a pedophile forcing 12 year old girls to be his wives. He also murdered four federal agents and his decisions led directly to the deaths of all involved

We still have Koresh supporters here? Wow! It's like Josh Duggar supporters.......and Jim Jones supporters....

 

[Jarlaxle]

Did the branch davidians survive to celebrate the victory?

Some of them did.

We're they really acquitted? I don't remember that. What's your link got to do with it?

The link is to a New York Times report. If you have questions, or if you wish to challenge the report's credibility, I suggest you contact the New York Times and offer their editors the benefit of your analysis.

By the way, did your head ever come into close contact with a strong magnet?

Did the courts rule that the arrest was unlawful and did they acquit the branch davidians? I don't care what the times thinks. Did a court acquit the davidians or are you making that up. I looked it up and found no information on this.

Is it an Opinion piece?

He lies

The Koresh was a pedophile who killed four federal agents. He ordered his people to set the fires and refused to allow them to leave

Actually, most of the F-Troop casualties were blue on blue. Yes, those stumbling idiots shot each other!

 

[Fang]

Sounds to me like Rebecca Musarra has a valid case against the police department. She does not have to talk to them and she informed them of her right not to talk. Once she told them she was not going to talk they should have just issued the ticket and been on their way.

 

[MikeK]

Koresh was a pedophile forcing 12 year old girls to be his wives. He also murdered four federal agents and his decisions led directly to the deaths of all involved

And presuming for the sake of discussion all that were true, does it justify jeopardizing the lives of 26 innocent children? Because that is the issue here -- not Koresh.

Koresh was believed to be insane and he had repeatedly threatened that everyone in the residence would die, which included the children, if any attempt was made to break in. So what did the Feds do? They broke in.

It would be one thing to say the adult Davidians made their choice but that cannot be said for those kids. And, again, that is the issue here.

Not Koresh.

 

[rightwinger]

The woman blatantly baited the Troopers and they were too stupid to realize what she was doing

Now, NJ will have to cough up money for a false arrest

They really think not answering questions is obstruction?

 

[MikeK]

The woman blatantly baited the Troopers and they were too stupid to realize what she was doing.

Now, NJ will have to cough up money for a false arrest

They really think not answering questions is obstruction?

That would depend on the circumstances, the nature of the questions and the reason for them.

In this example, what do you think is the reason for asking, "Do you know why I've stopped you?" And while you might think that is a perfectly benign question a lawyer might feel differently. What you need to keep in mind it is the trooper is required to inform the detained motorist why he/she has been stopped.

 

[rightwinger]

The woman blatantly baited the Troopers and they were too stupid to realize what she was doing.

Now, NJ will have to cough up money for a false arrest

They really think not answering questions is obstruction?

That would depend on the circumstances, the nature of the questions and the reason for them.

In this example, what do you think is the reason for asking, "Do you know why I've stopped you?" And while you might think that is a perfectly benign question a lawyer might feel differently. What you need to keep in mind it is the trooper is required to inform the detained motorist why he/she has been stopped.

I think the "Why do you think I stopped you" is part of a line of questions to get the motorist to say.....I may have been speeding
Followed by "Do you know what the speed limit is?" and then "How fast do you think you were going

In this way, the officer gets the motorist to confess to a violation on the spot and can be used if the motorist gets a lawyer to fight the ticket

 

[MikeK]

I think the "Why do you think I stopped you" is part of a line of questions to get the motorist to say.....I may have been speeding
Followed by "Do you know what the speed limit is?" and then "How fast do you think you were going

In this way, the officer gets the motorist to confess to a violation on the spot and can be used if the motorist gets a lawyer to fight the ticket

Very good.

Why not apply that kind of common sense reasoning to the Waco massacre and the question of why the break-in was a shamefully bad decision?

 

[rightwinger]

I think the "Why do you think I stopped you" is part of a line of questions to get the motorist to say.....I may have been speeding
Followed by "Do you know what the speed limit is?" and then "How fast do you think you were going

In this way, the officer gets the motorist to confess to a violation on the spot and can be used if the motorist gets a lawyer to fight the ticket

Very good.

Why not apply that kind of common sense reasoning to the Waco massacre and the question of why the break-in was a shamefully bad decision?

Diversion noted

Why don't you start a Waco thread and you can bore us with your conspiracies there?

 

[rightwinger]

The troopers are so used to bullying motorists and getting them to answer incriminating questions

Someone refusing to do so must be obstructing their investigation

 

[MikeK]

Why don't you start a Waco thread and you can bore us with your conspiracies there?

What conspiracy?

I didn't suggest there was any conspiracy at Waco. What there was is the worst example of mindless authoritarian brutality in modern American history. What surprises me is your inability or unwillingness to see it for what it was.

Do you have children?