Nevada Governor vetoes offensive Gun control bill.

[M14 Shooter]

JED i think a lot of people are afraid it does not stop after the check.....that your name will go onto the big....."HE HAS A GUN" govt list......and on that....i understand their distrust......

The problem is that background checks do not stop any crimes or any injuries, all they do is invade the privacy of gun buyers. And what would be the purpose of doing that if it doesn't stop crime or deaths? Well, it would work to compile a list of gun owners.

Another probem is that it infringes on the rights of Americans that are granted by the 2nd Amendment. If I want to buy a gun from my neighbor, he wouldhave to do a background check on me and why would I want him knowing so much about me? It would only serve to stifle private purchases. Of course, criminals and the "lunatics" that the panty-wearing lefties here cry about, would still get guns despite any background check no matter how strict.

It doesnt infringe on your rights.

it is a form of prior restraint, which alwas infringes on your rights.

See supreme court case about the dc gun ban.scali stated" the government can not ban you from buying or owning a gun. The government can put roadblocks "I.E. back ground checks." On citizens. "

Yeah.... how about you cite the case and show the text from that case where it mentions background checks.
Hint: You cannot, because nothig to that effect exists.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yeah curbing violence is a pathetic talking point. Im just going to ignore it from now on.
It doesn't infringe on your right unless you are mentally insane or a criminal. Are you either of these?

Im Not worried when I have to take a drug test for a job. See thats the problem. If this was a private company you wouldnt say shit. Its because its the government that you have a problem. Everything else about your argument is bullshit. Its about hating the government and that's it.

You are a waste of time. You are in this to win points and nothing more.

You keep insisting, against all logic, that it doesn't infringe on my rights as if simply because you say it it is true.

I am in this to counter left wing lunacy, and since you have no logical argument and in fact choose to ignore the argument, i win again.

Prove background checks infringe on your right to own a gun.

Background checks:
Where the state restrains the exercise of your right to arms until it determines that said exercise does not violate the law.
That's prior restraint, and always infringes your rights.

 

[M14 Shooter]

JED i think a lot of people are afraid it does not stop after the check.....that your name will go onto the big....."HE HAS A GUN" govt list......and on that....i understand their distrust......

The problem is that background checks do not stop any crimes or any injuries, all they do is invade the privacy of gun buyers.

Bullshit. If a criminal is not permitted to purchase a gun, then that in and of itself is a crime deterent.

Criminals have been barred by federal law from buying guns since 1968.
What effect has this ban had on gun-related crime?

 

[J.E.D]

The problem is that background checks do not stop any crimes or any injuries, all they do is invade the privacy of gun buyers.

Bullshit. If a criminal is not permitted to purchase a gun, then that in and of itself is a crime deterent.

Why is it a bad thing to keep felons from buying guns legally?

Because criminals obey laws.

So, because criminals don't obey laws, let's make it easier for them to legally obtain guns

 

[M14 Shooter]

You can buy whatever gun you want with whatever rounds and size clips you want. You can buy a tank for all I care. Just have the proper permits and pass a background check.

Thats it. If you cant agree with this simple reasoning then simply fuck off.

Here is a conundrum. You want background checks for those of us who want to buy a gun. But when it comes to abortion and contraception, you allow a girl of any age to buy abortifacients. Why don't you make women wanting an abortion have a background check? I mean that's where the actual killing happens.

"Guns kill people" my ass.

Look people kill people and a gun is a tool. A car is a tool and it kills people as well. You have to register that in order to drive.

^^^
First, you post this

Can you at least try to bring something to the table? you are boring me with your fails..

^^^
Then you post this


You do not have to register a car to buy it, to keep it in your house or to use it on private property.
Same goes for a license.

Fail? Yours.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Compromise means that each side gives something that the other wants in order to get someting that each side wants for itself.

The anti-gun side cannot give the pro-gun side anything, and so it is impossible for the pro-gun side to compromise.

So.... the anti-gun side doesnt really want compromise from the pro-gun side, it wants acquiescence.

Please cite the case, and the text to that effect.

He can't, it doesn't exist. What they actually said is that it is a reasonable infringement.

They were wrong.

nope.....but this is where we go into Windbag knows better than everyone ever modes, and i really am not up for wading through that bullshit.

Still looking for a response:

Compromise means that each side gives something that the other wants in order to get someting that each side wants for itself.

The anti-gun side cannot give the pro-gun side anything, and so it is impossible for the pro-gun side to compromise.

So.... the anti-gun side doesnt really want compromise from the pro-gun side, it wants acquiescence.

Background checks do not infringe on your right. Thus says the supreme court on this matter.

Please cite the case, and the text to that effect.

 

[M14 Shooter]

ok abortion is not guns...Seriously of all the things you can use, you go with abortion? This wasnt a conundrum, it was fucking moronic.

Look people kill people and a gun is a tool. A car is a tool and it kills people as well. You have to register that in order to drive.

Can you at least try to bring something to the table? you are boring me with your fails..

Abortion lol....

But somehow you think guns do more killing. How deluded you are. Cars kill more people than guns, drug use kills more people than guns, cancer kills more people than guns, ABORTION kills more people than guns. The conundrum, Plasmaball, is that you let people get away with slaughtering hundreds of thousands of unborn children, but if someone so much as owns a gun, it makes them a ruthless killer. Say, don't you have your priorities mixed up?

There are already background checks, as I recall there have been over 65 million background checks performed in this country during Obama's presidency!. You don't need a registry of every gun owner in America, you need a registry of those who commit crimes with guns, or who lets theirs fall into the hands of a minor. This is an invasion of the 4th and 5th Amendment rights of all law abiding gun owners!

I said guns are tools just like a car.

Wow 65 million while we have over 300 million out there. Im not impressed at all.

You need a license, permit, and insurance ( all but New hampshire) to drive a car.
I have no problem doing this for guns as well.

waaaaa now you are rolling out the 4th and 5th lol...

Scalia: Guns May be Regulated - NationalJournal.com




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

In regard to the scope of the right, the Court wrote, in an obiter dictum, "Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms

you going to whine about your rights because you can't carry a gun in a school?

District of Columbia v. Heller ? Case Brief Summary

The Second Amendment right is not a right to keep and carry any weapon in any manner and for any purpose. The Court has upheld gun control legislation including prohibitions on concealed weapons and possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, and laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. The historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons supports the holding in United States v. Miller that the sorts of weapons protected are those in common use at the time.

keep swinging....

Neither of these quotes mention background checks; Heller neither considered not ruled upon background checks in any way.
Please do try again.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nevada governor vetoes bill to strengthen gun background checks

So one of the Good Guys acted to safe guard our second amendment rights, GOOD JOB.

A background check could save a life.

So could shall-issue concealed carry.
Glad to see that you support it.

 

[J.E.D]

so if they know they cant buy them in a shop.....they go and get them the way they do now......how are they being deterred?.....

Maybe they DON'T go and get one elsewhere. Maybe they get turned down at the gun shop and have second thoughts. Maybe a person with a history of mental illness goes off his meds and with thoughts of suicide or doing harm to others, goes to a gun shop and gets turned down. Maybe that deters him.

Is that really so implausable?

I always hear from gun rights advocates that they're responsible gun owners who practice safety. Well, there are people out there who are not responsible with guns. There are people out there who have bad intent; who are mentally unstable; who have a history of selling weapons to criminals. I would think that "responsible" gun owners would want to make it more difficult for those types of people to get a gun. It turns out that people like you just want to own/sell/trade any weapon you choose under the guise of "protecting your 2nd amendment right" without regard to public safety. In my world, that makes you an irresponsible gun owner.

JED your talking about a guy with a mental illness.....i am talking about Gangs or just just Criminals....quit trying to say im one of them....you know fucking well those guys are going to get their dam guns just like they always have been doing.....and they kill a lot more people than legal gun owners or the people with mental problems.....in my world YOU are irresponsible and have no regard for public safety for not having the fucking balls to go after the guys who need to be dealt with...

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers. I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns? How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ? Because I advocate for common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans -- including REPUBLICANS -- support, I'm a coward? Take your strawman BS and pound sand.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Maybe they DON'T go and get one elsewhere. Maybe they get turned down at the gun shop and have second thoughts. Maybe a person with a history of mental illness goes off his meds and with thoughts of suicide or doing harm to others, goes to a gun shop and gets turned down. Maybe that deters him.

Is that really so implausable?

I always hear from gun rights advocates that they're responsible gun owners who practice safety. Well, there are people out there who are not responsible with guns. There are people out there who have bad intent; who are mentally unstable; who have a history of selling weapons to criminals. I would think that "responsible" gun owners would want to make it more difficult for those types of people to get a gun. It turns out that people like you just want to own/sell/trade any weapon you choose under the guise of "protecting your 2nd amendment right" without regard to public safety. In my world, that makes you an irresponsible gun owner.

JED your talking about a guy with a mental illness.....i am talking about Gangs or just just Criminals....quit trying to say im one of them....you know fucking well those guys are going to get their dam guns just like they always have been doing.....and they kill a lot more people than legal gun owners or the people with mental problems.....in my world YOU are irresponsible and have no regard for public safety for not having the fucking balls to go after the guys who need to be dealt with...

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers. I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns? How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ? Because I advocate for common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans -- including REPUBLICANS -- support, I'm a coward? Take your strawman BS and pound sand.

it is illegal for them to buy or have them now

 

[M14 Shooter]

I said guns are tools just like a car.

Wow 65 million while we have over 300 million out there. Im not impressed at all.

You need a license, permit, and insurance ( all but New hampshire) to drive a car.
I have no problem doing this for guns as well.

waaaaa now you are rolling out the 4th and 5th lol...

Scalia: Guns May be Regulated - NationalJournal.com




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller


you going to whine about your rights because you can't carry a gun in a school?

District of Columbia v. Heller ? Case Brief Summary



keep swinging....

I'm so happy you have no problem surrendering your rights. However, when you start trying to abrogate mine, I take issue with that. To date there are over 20,000 gun laws on the books and not one has ever been shown to have prevented a crime.

You are totally wrong on your read of US V Miller, they held that a sawed off shotgun could be controlled "because it had no forseeable military purpose". Their ruling had nothing to do with the civilian useage of weapons at the time.

Further, once the law was passed the ATF's precurser took it upon themselves (like all bureaucracies do) to add weapons to the controlled list via non-legislative "rules". They have passed thousands of rules that most people have no knowledge of.

And that leads to the final issue which is namely once something is regulated, the regulations can be made ever more onerous. But you anti civil rights propagandists know that, you simply don't care. You want power over the population and you willuse whatever nefarious methods you have to to obtain your goal.

Lol im not going to change your mind on the issue like most other people. You are going to weasel your way out of everything in order to say the government is going after your rights.

Normal thinking people understand they are not. Sure some people want laws passed to ban guns, but that wont be happening. Scotus already stated you cant pass those type of laws.

Passi g a law that states you must have your gun locked and in a rack is not infringing on your rights. You already own the gun.

Good for those 20k laws on the books. Id still pass further background checks, higher more agents to check inventories of gun stores and maybe have gun locks on guns when being stored.

Rational people would be fine with this. I understand you are not a rational person on this issue.

Yes my methods are voting to have laws passed. Im fucking evil....

Rational, thinking people do not support the infringement of the rights of the law abiding with someting that does not hinder the actions of criminals.

 

[J.E.D]

The problem is that background checks do not stop any crimes or any injuries, all they do is invade the privacy of gun buyers.

Bullshit. If a criminal is not permitted to purchase a gun, then that in and of itself is a crime deterent.

Criminals have been barred by federal law from buying guns since 1968.
What effect has this ban had on gun-related crime?

Except that a criminal can go to agun show or a private citizen and walk away with a gun with no background check. What effect would it have on gun violence if those loopholes were closed? Probably a significant one.

 

[J.E.D]

JED your talking about a guy with a mental illness.....i am talking about Gangs or just just Criminals....quit trying to say im one of them....you know fucking well those guys are going to get their dam guns just like they always have been doing.....and they kill a lot more people than legal gun owners or the people with mental problems.....in my world YOU are irresponsible and have no regard for public safety for not having the fucking balls to go after the guys who need to be dealt with...

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers. I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns? How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ? Because I advocate for common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans -- including REPUBLICANS -- support, I'm a coward? Take your strawman BS and pound sand.

it is illegal for them to buy or have them now

It is. But they can obtain them without a background check at gun shows and from private sellers.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Bullshit. If a criminal is not permitted to purchase a gun, then that in and of itself is a crime deterent.

Why is it a bad thing to keep felons from buying guns legally?

so if they know they cant buy them in a shop.....they go and get them the way they do now......how are they being deterred?.....

Maybe they DON'T go and get one elsewhere. Maybe they get turned down at the gun shop and have second thoughts. Maybe a person with a history of mental illness goes off his meds and with thoughts of suicide or doing harm to others, goes to a gun shop and gets turned down. Maybe that deters him.
Is that really so implausable?

Given that all of the talk about gun control is predicated on the fact that gun-related crime is so bad that we need to further restrict the rights of th elaw abiding, there's little to no evidence of the existence of the effect you mention here.

There are people out there who have bad intent; who are mentally unstable; who have a history of selling weapons to criminals. I would think that "responsible" gun owners would want to make it more difficult for those types of people to get a gun.

Convicted criminals and those adjucated mentally incompetent are already banned from buying/having guns.
How much more difficult can it get than a total ban?

 

[jon_berzerk]

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers. I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns? How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ? Because I advocate for common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans -- including REPUBLICANS -- support, I'm a coward? Take your strawman BS and pound sand.

it is illegal for them to buy or have them now

It is. But they can obtain them without a background check at gun shows and from private sellers.

all ffl dealers at gun shows are required to do a background check

however it is still illegal for them to try or buy or have firearms

 

[M14 Shooter]

Maybe they DON'T go and get one elsewhere. Maybe they get turned down at the gun shop and have second thoughts. Maybe a person with a history of mental illness goes off his meds and with thoughts of suicide or doing harm to others, goes to a gun shop and gets turned down. Maybe that deters him.

Is that really so implausable?

I always hear from gun rights advocates that they're responsible gun owners who practice safety. Well, there are people out there who are not responsible with guns. There are people out there who have bad intent; who are mentally unstable; who have a history of selling weapons to criminals. I would think that "responsible" gun owners would want to make it more difficult for those types of people to get a gun. It turns out that people like you just want to own/sell/trade any weapon you choose under the guise of "protecting your 2nd amendment right" without regard to public safety. In my world, that makes you an irresponsible gun owner.

JED your talking about a guy with a mental illness.....i am talking about Gangs or just just Criminals....quit trying to say im one of them....you know fucking well those guys are going to get their dam guns just like they always have been doing.....and they kill a lot more people than legal gun owners or the people with mental problems.....in my world YOU are irresponsible and have no regard for public safety for not having the fucking balls to go after the guys who need to be dealt with...

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers.

Federal law already prohibits this.
Thus, you already have what you apparently want.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Bullshit. If a criminal is not permitted to purchase a gun, then that in and of itself is a crime deterent.

Criminals have been barred by federal law from buying guns since 1968.
What effect has this ban had on gun-related crime?

Except that a criminal can go to agun show or a private citizen and walk away with a gun with no background check . What effect would it have on gun violence if those loopholes were closed? Probably a significant one.

You did not answer the question.

You arge that making it illegal to purchase a gun will create a deterrence against same and will positively affect gun crime.

Criminals, et al, have been barred by federal law from buying guns since 1968.
What effect has this ban had on gun-related crime?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers. I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns? How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ? Because I advocate for common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans -- including REPUBLICANS -- support, I'm a coward? Take your strawman BS and pound sand.

it is illegal for them to buy or have them now

It is. But they can obtain them without a background check at gun shows and from private sellers.

And have therefore broken the law.
Apparently, the law did not deter them from doing so, and so your argument regarding deterrence is demonstrated unsound.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Maybe they DON'T go and get one elsewhere. Maybe they get turned down at the gun shop and have second thoughts. Maybe a person with a history of mental illness goes off his meds and with thoughts of suicide or doing harm to others, goes to a gun shop and gets turned down. Maybe that deters him.

Is that really so implausable?

I always hear from gun rights advocates that they're responsible gun owners who practice safety. Well, there are people out there who are not responsible with guns. There are people out there who have bad intent; who are mentally unstable; who have a history of selling weapons to criminals. I would think that "responsible" gun owners would want to make it more difficult for those types of people to get a gun. It turns out that people like you just want to own/sell/trade any weapon you choose under the guise of "protecting your 2nd amendment right" without regard to public safety. In my world, that makes you an irresponsible gun owner.

JED your talking about a guy with a mental illness.....i am talking about Gangs or just just Criminals....quit trying to say im one of them....you know fucking well those guys are going to get their dam guns just like they always have been doing.....and they kill a lot more people than legal gun owners or the people with mental problems.....in my world YOU are irresponsible and have no regard for public safety for not having the fucking balls to go after the guys who need to be dealt with...

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers. I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns? How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ? Because I advocate for common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans -- including REPUBLICANS -- support, I'm a coward? Take your strawman BS and pound sand.

I'm talking about any person who should not be allowed to legally purchase a gun -- felons, violent criminals, people with mental illness, straw purchasers.

you were stressing the Mentally impaired or guys with a record....i was talking about the Active criminal element....and i told you this......they dont need to go to a gun shop.....

I'm irresponsible because I don't want those people to be able to legally obtain guns?

no you are irresponsible because you like all these other people targeting the guy down the street ....refuse to acknowledge that the real fucking gun nuts who are killing people everyday are the Gangs and the active criminal elements who DO NOT need to buy guns at a shop and they are going to get their shit no matter what is done outside of exterminating them.....and dont seem to mention these fuckers when talking about this shit....

How the fuck do YOU know what I have the balls to do, champ?

but you can say this about me....right CHAMP?....

It turns out that people like you just want to own/sell/trade any weapon you choose under the guise of "protecting your 2nd amendment right" without regard to public safety.



if i was like that why would i be for exterminating violent gangs?.....why would i state that i am for Zero tolerance for using guns Illegally and the jail time should be long?.....as far as i am concerned ...you own a gun and you are negligent with it or use it to commit a crime.....you pay the price.....and that price will be one you may not like.....so take your bullshit and go pound your own pile of sand.....got it CHAMP?.....

 

[J.E.D]

it is illegal for them to buy or have them now

It is. But they can obtain them without a background check at gun shows and from private sellers.

And have therefore broken the law.
Apparently, the law did not deter them from doing so, and so your argument regarding deterrence is demonstrated unsound.

And have therefore purchased a gun without a background check. Apparently, because of these loopholes, they ARE able to buy guns DESPITE there being laws against criminals buying guns.